A Muslim Brit nails it again on the New Zealand attack

[JoeB131]

Maajid and Sam (one of my favorite thinkers) wrote a book together and have done many, many speaking engagements together. An atheist and a Muslim, trying to stop the madness, getting resistance they never expected.

I'm not holding my breath that Nawaz will be successful, given he has the Regressive Left and the Islamist Fundamentalists working against him. That's quite a team.

Meh, some sellout looking for a rub on the head from white people isn't really going to address the problem.

You see, here's my solution. Instead of promising poor kids a college education that never happens (especially when they come back in boxes, without limbs or with PTSD), we should have a universal draft to fight the Never-ending War on an Emotional State.

Then we take the kids of the rich and the politicians and put them in an elite airborne unit (because they are the elite, after all) and make that the FIRST UNIT to deploy to a hot zone.

Betcha after that, the Oil Companies will be fine with paying a fair price for oil and all these "elitists" who wag their fingers at that part of the world will suddenly become tolerant of other cultures.

 

[Mac1958]

I quote Maajid Nawaz regularly here. He is the liberal Muslim Brit who coined the term "Regressive Left", horrified by the way many on the Left make a bad situation worse by coddling the worst elements of Islam in the West. Mr. Nawaz can see both sides of this issue. I know being able to see both sides of an issue is not considered a good thing here.

He risks his life every day, pushing for reform of his beloved religion. He was assaulted, again, just the other day (I suspect he'll be attacked here, too - that's how they operate). Here's his take on the predictable madness that has followed the New Zealand attack.

The New Zealand Mosque Massacre Blame Game Is Out of Control

LONDON—The anti-Muslim terrorist attack at two mosques in New Zealand marked perhaps the lowest point for Muslim communities in the West since the Bosnia genocide. It has left no doubt that far-right extremism is on the march once more.

But the sheer human tragedy of this attack against my Muslim communities has not deterred extremists from those other two ends of our political spectrum, the far left and the theocratic Islamists, from seeking to exploit it for their own nefarious purposes.

So it is with no surprise that I noticed, a mere day after 50 of my fellow Muslims were so publicly and tragically killed, while the blood was still wet and the bodies remained unburied, that the ideologues had circled like vultures. Opportunistic Islamist and far-left extremists began calling for a purge of people whose politics they disagree with, and started publishing McCarthyite lists of personae non grata to target. Few have come under fiercer assault than my friend and collaborator in dialogue, Sam Harris. The following spectacle has been incredibly unedifying.

Of course, inflammatory anti-Muslim language must be condemned by us all, and many anti-Muslim provocateurs should take a hard look at themselves after New Zealand, just as we must condemn inflammatory Islamist and far-left language. That is different, though, from trying to silence an entire policy concern like Western foreign policy or opposing immigration and critiquing Islam respectively. Only the extremists wish to shut down debate. And so it is crucial that we do not respond to far-right extremism in such a way that we inadvertently empower extremists from other ends of the political spectrum. Terrorists prefer the bullet to the ballot. Let us not become pawns in their game.
.

Being able to see both sides doesn't mean you can't have an opinion.
I don't like seeing anyone attacking innocent Muslims....but I also cannot handle the whining Muslims who feel they were personally attacked when they live 8000 miles away from the attack, and try to use this typically Islamic martyrdom complex to claim the right to attack others.

Agreed, and those of us who can see both sides form our opinions from that perspective.

In this case, as with so many others, those who are choosing to go through life with just one eye open are making things worse.
.

They're out there on both sides. The opportunists that want to see only the
Bad in the other side because they want
Blood.... They believe there can be no compromise and they literally yearn for
The chance to rain hell and death on those they see as evil.

Jo

The fundamentalists on both ends are killing us, indeed.

This particular pairing - the Islamic Fundamentalists and the Regressive Left - is one of the more concerning examples.
.

 

[JoeB131]

The fundamentalists on both ends are killing us, indeed.

This particular pairing - the Islamic Fundamentalists and the Regressive Left - is one of the more concerning examples.

Guy, there's always been a whiner like you saying the End is Nigh.. life goes on.

When I grew up in the 1960's and 70's... we had race riots, domestic terrorism, assassinations of political figures, heiresses getting kidnapped, and we all thought the Commies were going to win and take over!!!!

Fat-asses on both sides of the spectrum saying outrageous things on the internet to get a rise out of people... meh, just not the same thing.

 

[LoneLaugher]

I quote Maajid Nawaz regularly here. He is the liberal Muslim Brit who coined the term "Regressive Left", horrified by the way many on the Left make a bad situation worse by coddling the worst elements of Islam in the West. Mr. Nawaz can see both sides of this issue. I know being able to see both sides of an issue is not considered a good thing here.

He risks his life every day, pushing for reform of his beloved religion. He was assaulted, again, just the other day (I suspect he'll be attacked here, too - that's how they operate). Here's his take on the predictable madness that has followed the New Zealand attack.

The New Zealand Mosque Massacre Blame Game Is Out of Control

LONDON—The anti-Muslim terrorist attack at two mosques in New Zealand marked perhaps the lowest point for Muslim communities in the West since the Bosnia genocide. It has left no doubt that far-right extremism is on the march once more.

But the sheer human tragedy of this attack against my Muslim communities has not deterred extremists from those other two ends of our political spectrum, the far left and the theocratic Islamists, from seeking to exploit it for their own nefarious purposes.

So it is with no surprise that I noticed, a mere day after 50 of my fellow Muslims were so publicly and tragically killed, while the blood was still wet and the bodies remained unburied, that the ideologues had circled like vultures. Opportunistic Islamist and far-left extremists began calling for a purge of people whose politics they disagree with, and started publishing McCarthyite lists of personae non grata to target. Few have come under fiercer assault than my friend and collaborator in dialogue, Sam Harris. The following spectacle has been incredibly unedifying.

Of course, inflammatory anti-Muslim language must be condemned by us all, and many anti-Muslim provocateurs should take a hard look at themselves after New Zealand, just as we must condemn inflammatory Islamist and far-left language. That is different, though, from trying to silence an entire policy concern like Western foreign policy or opposing immigration and critiquing Islam respectively. Only the extremists wish to shut down debate. And so it is crucial that we do not respond to far-right extremism in such a way that we inadvertently empower extremists from other ends of the political spectrum. Terrorists prefer the bullet to the ballot. Let us not become pawns in their game.
.

Being able to see both sides doesn't mean you can't have an opinion.
I don't like seeing anyone attacking innocent Muslims....but I also cannot handle the whining Muslims who feel they were personally attacked when they live 8000 miles away from the attack, and try to use this typically Islamic martyrdom complex to claim the right to attack others.

Agreed, and those of us who can see both sides form our opinions from that perspective.

In this case, as with so many others, those who are choosing to go through life with just one eye open are making things worse.
.

They're out there on both sides. The opportunists that want to see only the
Bad in the other side because they want
Blood.... They believe there can be no compromise and they literally yearn for
The chance to rain hell and death on those they see as evil.

Jo

The fundamentalists on both ends are killing us, indeed.

This particular pairing - the Islamic Fundamentalists and the Regressive Left - is one of the more concerning examples.
.

It is mature and adult for you to repeatedly say, without evidence or justification, that anyone here is working with Muslim extremists to deny reformation within the Islamic religion.

 

[Olde Europe]

Ok. you might be right. maybe I have not read enough. I wish i had the time. But it always appeared to me the House of Saud were reluctant participants in the heavy stuff. Bin Salmin did imprison a bunch of wealthy Saudi princes and royalty for consuming so much wealth. Maybe that was part of the show, too.

Answer me this, Jehanne, does it matter whether you are being tortured and / or beheaded by a reluctant or an eager participant? For to me it seems, it does not.

The crackdown on the princelings was variously described as a crackdown on corruption (bribery, extortion, money laundering), a crackdown on rivals and potential opponents within the royal family, and a shakedown (allegedly to the tune of $106bn). Whatever this was - most likely all of the above applies - the "jailing" at the Riyadh Ritz Carlton wasn't quite what the human rights activists experienced.

The main point, to me anyway, is not necessarily what MbS is really doing. It is that the petro dollars we, the West, have been pumping into the Saudi autocrats' pockets, stabilized and keeps alive this thoroughly despicable regime, and that in turn contributed to the despicable practice of Islam in parts of the Sunni Muslim world. The stone age Islam the fine Mr. Nawaz complains about is, in relevant part, our, the West's, doing, as is the terrorism the Saudi-funded Wahhabi ideology inspired and fueled. That's before we even mention baby Bush's criminal war on Iraq, which gave birth to AQI, which later morphed into ISIS.

Before listening to, and applauding, one Mr. Nawaz, we in the West would do well to scrutinize our own role in all of this, ranging from mostly turning a blind eye to the pervasive White nationalist ideology in the West, to helping to inflict stone age Islam on the East. Because we stink, grotesquely so, even if we're so accustomed to the stench, we no longer realize it.

 

[Mac1958]

I quote Maajid Nawaz regularly here. He is the liberal Muslim Brit who coined the term "Regressive Left", horrified by the way many on the Left make a bad situation worse by coddling the worst elements of Islam in the West. Mr. Nawaz can see both sides of this issue. I know being able to see both sides of an issue is not considered a good thing here.

He risks his life every day, pushing for reform of his beloved religion. He was assaulted, again, just the other day (I suspect he'll be attacked here, too - that's how they operate). Here's his take on the predictable madness that has followed the New Zealand attack.

The New Zealand Mosque Massacre Blame Game Is Out of Control

LONDON—The anti-Muslim terrorist attack at two mosques in New Zealand marked perhaps the lowest point for Muslim communities in the West since the Bosnia genocide. It has left no doubt that far-right extremism is on the march once more.

But the sheer human tragedy of this attack against my Muslim communities has not deterred extremists from those other two ends of our political spectrum, the far left and the theocratic Islamists, from seeking to exploit it for their own nefarious purposes.

So it is with no surprise that I noticed, a mere day after 50 of my fellow Muslims were so publicly and tragically killed, while the blood was still wet and the bodies remained unburied, that the ideologues had circled like vultures. Opportunistic Islamist and far-left extremists began calling for a purge of people whose politics they disagree with, and started publishing McCarthyite lists of personae non grata to target. Few have come under fiercer assault than my friend and collaborator in dialogue, Sam Harris. The following spectacle has been incredibly unedifying.

Of course, inflammatory anti-Muslim language must be condemned by us all, and many anti-Muslim provocateurs should take a hard look at themselves after New Zealand, just as we must condemn inflammatory Islamist and far-left language. That is different, though, from trying to silence an entire policy concern like Western foreign policy or opposing immigration and critiquing Islam respectively. Only the extremists wish to shut down debate. And so it is crucial that we do not respond to far-right extremism in such a way that we inadvertently empower extremists from other ends of the political spectrum. Terrorists prefer the bullet to the ballot. Let us not become pawns in their game.
.

Being able to see both sides doesn't mean you can't have an opinion.
I don't like seeing anyone attacking innocent Muslims....but I also cannot handle the whining Muslims who feel they were personally attacked when they live 8000 miles away from the attack, and try to use this typically Islamic martyrdom complex to claim the right to attack others.

Agreed, and those of us who can see both sides form our opinions from that perspective.

In this case, as with so many others, those who are choosing to go through life with just one eye open are making things worse.
.

They're out there on both sides. The opportunists that want to see only the
Bad in the other side because they want
Blood.... They believe there can be no compromise and they literally yearn for
The chance to rain hell and death on those they see as evil.

Jo

The fundamentalists on both ends are killing us, indeed.

This particular pairing - the Islamic Fundamentalists and the Regressive Left - is one of the more concerning examples.
.

It is mature and adult for you to repeatedly say, without evidence or justification, that anyone here is working with Muslim extremists to deny reformation within the Islamic religion.

Ah, one of your standard Straw Man arguments. I didn't say you're "working with" them.

And you folks whine when I don't respond to your games.
.

 

[Mac1958]

Mr. Nawaz has these people absolutely pegged.
.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Being able to see both sides doesn't mean you can't have an opinion.
I don't like seeing anyone attacking innocent Muslims....but I also cannot handle the whining Muslims who feel they were personally attacked when they live 8000 miles away from the attack, and try to use this typically Islamic martyrdom complex to claim the right to attack others.

Agreed, and those of us who can see both sides form our opinions from that perspective.

In this case, as with so many others, those who are choosing to go through life with just one eye open are making things worse.
.

They're out there on both sides. The opportunists that want to see only the
Bad in the other side because they want
Blood.... They believe there can be no compromise and they literally yearn for
The chance to rain hell and death on those they see as evil.

Jo

The fundamentalists on both ends are killing us, indeed.

This particular pairing - the Islamic Fundamentalists and the Regressive Left - is one of the more concerning examples.
.

It is mature and adult for you to repeatedly say, without evidence or justification, that anyone here is working with Muslim extremists to deny reformation within the Islamic religion.

Ah, one of your standard Straw Man arguments. I didn't say you're "working with" them.

And you folks whine when I don't respond to your games.
.

Ohhh! We aren’t working WITH them. We are just unknowingly “paired” with them (we aren’t) because we are morons. We are so depraved and stupid that we defend Islamic Terrorists from talk of reform...(we don’t)...playing right into the hands of extremists. I get it now.

Yes. That’s much better (it’s not) . Thanks.

 

[Mac1958]

Agreed, and those of us who can see both sides form our opinions from that perspective.

In this case, as with so many others, those who are choosing to go through life with just one eye open are making things worse.
.

They're out there on both sides. The opportunists that want to see only the
Bad in the other side because they want
Blood.... They believe there can be no compromise and they literally yearn for
The chance to rain hell and death on those they see as evil.

Jo

The fundamentalists on both ends are killing us, indeed.

This particular pairing - the Islamic Fundamentalists and the Regressive Left - is one of the more concerning examples.
.

It is mature and adult for you to repeatedly say, without evidence or justification, that anyone here is working with Muslim extremists to deny reformation within the Islamic religion.

Ah, one of your standard Straw Man arguments. I didn't say you're "working with" them.

And you folks whine when I don't respond to your games.
.

Ohhh! We aren’t working WITH them. We are just unknowingly “paired” with them because we are morons. We are so depraved and stupid that we defend Islamic Terrorists from talk of reform...playing right into the hands of extremists. I get it now.

Yes. That’s much better. Thanks.

Yer welcome!
.

 

[JoeB131]

Mr. Nawaz has these people absolutely pegged.

Not really. He's the nice clean cut guy you invite to parties to feel better about yourself so you don't address the real issues of our policies.

Then again, you probably never had to wear a uniform and face the real prospect of coming home in a box.

 

[cnm]

The attack on a New Zealand mosque is being used to change gun laws.

What a load. Gun laws are being tightened to prevent further such incidents. I like firearms a lot yet I approve of effectively banning assault style semi automatics that will take large capacity detachable magazines. I'm also glad handguns are effectively banned.

 

[sealybobo]

That's flippant and it plays into their moronic rhetoric. I condemn that act as strongly as I do the Christchurch horror. And that act no more is indicative of liberals or even "bernie bros" than the Christchurch massacre is indicative of anyone BUT white nationalists and those that condone them and what they do

Or people who defend the white nationalists as good people.

Trump Defends White-Nationalist Protesters: 'Some Very Fine People on Both Sides'
The president backtracked from his remarks on Charlottesville just a day earlier.

White Nationalist = Patriotic Caucasian
It does not = White Supremacist

dude this is what they are trying to do. they want you and I to become obsolete, the new muslims.

91% of CEOs are white men. It should be 50% women and 15% blacks, Latinos, muslims or indians.

You won’t be obsolete you will just control your fair share.

This is a diverse country. White men shouldn’t control it.

I’m not talking about money. We have the power and the money now. Nothing we can do about that. But white boys in the future won’t have an unfair advantage

Why don't we just let people run companies because they're black...or run them because they're women, or Gay, or Latino. Not because they know what they're doing. Just let them run their companies into the ground to make sure that we are correctly diverse. Blow the whole thing up....just so everyone, regardless of their gifts or skill levels, get a chance to run a company. Put that on your door. "We we may have screwed everything up, but we did it for the sake of diversity."

So you don’t see the problem with such a diverse country having so little diversity in our companies?

Let me guess you’re a white man?

Shocker.

 

[mudwhistle]

The attack on a New Zealand mosque is being used to change gun laws.

What a load. Gun laws are being tightened to prevent further such incidents. I like firearms a lot yet I approve of effectively banning assault style semi automatics that will take large capacity detachable magazines. I'm also glad handguns are effectively banned.

I don't believe in banning any kind of guns because I think once the police become totally neutered by politics we'll have to defend ourselves....and the criminals will have illegal guns regardless of what the laws are. We are just about at the point right now. They're doing it in Nashville right now. Trying to turn it into The Wild Wild West.
First they go after the mayor, accusing her or him of sexual misconduct. Then replace them with a puppet who refuses to support cops, then the streets are filled with thugs flaunting our laws.

This is the state of things in Nashville today.

 

[mudwhistle]

Or people who defend the white nationalists as good people.

Trump Defends White-Nationalist Protesters: 'Some Very Fine People on Both Sides'
The president backtracked from his remarks on Charlottesville just a day earlier.

White Nationalist = Patriotic Caucasian
It does not = White Supremacist

dude this is what they are trying to do. they want you and I to become obsolete, the new muslims.

91% of CEOs are white men. It should be 50% women and 15% blacks, Latinos, muslims or indians.

You won’t be obsolete you will just control your fair share.

This is a diverse country. White men shouldn’t control it.

I’m not talking about money. We have the power and the money now. Nothing we can do about that. But white boys in the future won’t have an unfair advantage

Why don't we just let people run companies because they're black...or run them because they're women, or Gay, or Latino. Not because they know what they're doing. Just let them run their companies into the ground to make sure that we are correctly diverse. Blow the whole thing up....just so everyone, regardless of their gifts or skill levels, get a chance to run a company. Put that on your door. "We we may have screwed everything up, but we did it for the sake of diversity."

So you don’t see the problem with such a diverse country having so little diversity in our companies?

Let me guess you’re a white man?

Shocker.

I'm a realist, not a racist.
I've been married to a woman who is half Native-American and half African-American for 40 years
My half brothers and sister are part Native-American.
Many of my cousins are Native-American.
Half of my nieces and nephews are black.
So fuck you and your race-baiting Bull shit.

 

[irosie91]

Look at the Regressives who have jumped in here to illustrate his point for him.

You would think "liberals" (wink wink) would clearly and passionately advocate for his efforts.

But he's messin' with their pet constituent oppressed religion, so they're willing to throw in with the Islamist Fundamentalists.

Why? I mean, I'm happy he's looking for approval from White people if that's what he wants, but what he says doesn't deal with the underlying problem.

"Islamic" (not really) terrorism isn't the result of their treatment of women or gays, it's the result of our policies of invading their countries, propping up the Zionists, and trying to exploit their oil resources.

They are doing the EXACT same thing we would do if a bunch of flying saucers landed tomorrow, overthrew our government and defeated our military. We'd fight back. We'd blow people up (both aliens and human collaborators). And we wouldn't think much of Earthlings who said, "The Grays aren't such bad Guys, I actually enjoy Anal Probes!"

View attachment 251165

Joe you never met a muslim, never read the Koran, never attended
a mosque and are not acquainted with any persons from the Middle east or South east Asia or west Africa or the sub-Saharan or the Balkans

 

[mudwhistle]

The attack on a New Zealand mosque is being used to change gun laws.

What a load. Gun laws are being tightened to prevent further such incidents. I like firearms a lot yet I approve of effectively banning assault style semi automatics that will take large capacity detachable magazines. I'm also glad handguns are effectively banned.

Well I hope you're good at using a bow and arrow, cuz you'll need to do something to replace the police protection that the left is effectively eliminating.

 

[Tehon]

Being able to see both sides doesn't mean you can't have an opinion.
I don't like seeing anyone attacking innocent Muslims....but I also cannot handle the whining Muslims who feel they were personally attacked when they live 8000 miles away from the attack, and try to use this typically Islamic martyrdom complex to claim the right to attack others.

Agreed, and those of us who can see both sides form our opinions from that perspective.

In this case, as with so many others, those who are choosing to go through life with just one eye open are making things worse.
.

They're out there on both sides. The opportunists that want to see only the
Bad in the other side because they want
Blood.... They believe there can be no compromise and they literally yearn for
The chance to rain hell and death on those they see as evil.

Jo

The fundamentalists on both ends are killing us, indeed.

This particular pairing - the Islamic Fundamentalists and the Regressive Left - is one of the more concerning examples.
.

It is mature and adult for you to repeatedly say, without evidence or justification, that anyone here is working with Muslim extremists to deny reformation within the Islamic religion.

Ah, one of your standard Straw Man arguments. I didn't say you're "working with" them.

And you folks whine when I don't respond to your games.
.

That is the implication.

they're willing to throw in with the Islamist Fundamentalists.

 

[Mac1958]

Agreed, and those of us who can see both sides form our opinions from that perspective.

In this case, as with so many others, those who are choosing to go through life with just one eye open are making things worse.
.

They're out there on both sides. The opportunists that want to see only the
Bad in the other side because they want
Blood.... They believe there can be no compromise and they literally yearn for
The chance to rain hell and death on those they see as evil.

Jo

The fundamentalists on both ends are killing us, indeed.

This particular pairing - the Islamic Fundamentalists and the Regressive Left - is one of the more concerning examples.
.

It is mature and adult for you to repeatedly say, without evidence or justification, that anyone here is working with Muslim extremists to deny reformation within the Islamic religion.

Ah, one of your standard Straw Man arguments. I didn't say you're "working with" them.

And you folks whine when I don't respond to your games.
.

That is the implication.

they're willing to throw in with the Islamist Fundamentalists.

Perceive it as you wish.

I don't care.
.

 

[mudwhistle]

The fundamentalists on both ends are killing us, indeed.

This particular pairing - the Islamic Fundamentalists and the Regressive Left - is one of the more concerning examples.

Guy, there's always been a whiner like you saying the End is Nigh.. life goes on.

When I grew up in the 1960's and 70's... we had race riots, domestic terrorism, assassinations of political figures, heiresses getting kidnapped, and we all thought the Commies were going to win and take over!!!!

Fat-asses on both sides of the spectrum saying outrageous things on the internet to get a rise out of people... meh, just not the same thing.

You must live in some fantasyland, cuz this shit is getting real, and you've probably been sitting in your parent's basement eating Cheetos and smoking pot for the last 40 years.

 

[Tehon]

They're out there on both sides. The opportunists that want to see only the
Bad in the other side because they want
Blood.... They believe there can be no compromise and they literally yearn for
The chance to rain hell and death on those they see as evil.

Jo

The fundamentalists on both ends are killing us, indeed.

This particular pairing - the Islamic Fundamentalists and the Regressive Left - is one of the more concerning examples.
.

It is mature and adult for you to repeatedly say, without evidence or justification, that anyone here is working with Muslim extremists to deny reformation within the Islamic religion.

Ah, one of your standard Straw Man arguments. I didn't say you're "working with" them.

And you folks whine when I don't respond to your games.
.

That is the implication.

they're willing to throw in with the Islamist Fundamentalists.

Perceive it as you wish.

I don't care.
.

Then it is you who is shutting down reasoned debate. No one else.