A New Trend: Kindergartners Not Potty-Trained

[Marion Morrison]

Where did she once bring liberals into it? She didn’t. You did.

You read that right. Not only in my district but apparently everywhere. Students coming to kindergarten and REMAINING in kind. in pull-ups. And having bowel "accidents" in pull-ups. Many of these students are not special needs, either. They have no known medical, physical, behavioral or emotional problems.

Naturally the important thing is that these students not be mocked and feel no pressure whatsoever....

Buffalo Teachers Say Having To Change Kids' Diapers Is A Bum Deal

You read that right. Not only in my district but apparently everywhere. Students coming to kindergarten and REMAINING in kind. in pull-ups. And having bowel "accidents" in pull-ups. Many of these students are not special needs, either. They have no known medical, physical, behavioral or emotional problems.

Naturally the important thing is that these students not be mocked and feel no pressure whatsoever....

Buffalo Teachers Say Having To Change Kids' Diapers Is A Bum Deal

I would be careful with that. If you have a 5, 6, 7 year old in pull ups then you have something else going on. It is not uncommon for kids to regress. Schools seldom have the full picture.

I wonder then why it seems to be an epidemic that we have only seen recently. I had never, ever heard of this in my 25 years of teaching before, say, the last 5 years.

In 1961, when I was in first grade, one of my classmates wet himself several times. He wasn't "special." He just had accidents sometimes. His mom sent him extra pants to change into.

The reason for these normal children at the edge of the developmental spectrum when it comes to potty training is that they get so engrossed in what is going on that they don't notice in time that their bladder is full or that they're bowels are rumbling. It embarrasses them as much as it annoys the teacher. They DO grow out of it.

I knew when I first read your OP that you would blame this on the dissolution of society. That's bosh. Do you really think there is a parent in this country that wouldn't LOVE to see their 4 or 5 year old potty trained? REALLY, Sue?

Maybe you're just hearing about this because it wasn't talked about before. Now it is some big deal that ultra conservatives will rush to exploit in order to show that LIBERALS don't potty train their children.

This is disgusting.

Give her a little time, Depotoo.

 

[Marion Morrison]

What is wrong with parents today?

I loved disposables, but if they had never been invented, this would not be happening.

You blame the diapers for parental negligence? Walk me through that.

Disposables. Before disposables one had to clean cloth diapers in the toilet. It was not a fun thing to do at all. Then they had to be washed, whether by hand or washing machine. A parent would want to get them potty trained as soon as they could. With the advent of disposables, parents no longer had to deal with that.

Disposable diapers have been in use since the 1960's.

Damn! Not in my house. I guess they had a bunch of diapers left over from the other kids.

I just found a drawer full of my great-grandmother's diapers last week, so yeah..

 

[Disir]

And I can't buy that with zero information on the parents, the kids etc.

You can't buy that it's happening?

It's happening even in the UK:

Infant school recruits nappy changer because so many kids aren't toilet trained

And in Spokane WA:

Students who aren’t potty trained an issue for kindergarten teachers

For those who are not, about 20 percent refuse to learn to use the toilet for a variety of reasons, including excessive parent and child conflict, the child’s parents attempted to start training too early, irrational fears about going to the bathroom, a child’s difficult temperament or even constipation.

Generally, if a child is 5 and still not potty trained, the child needs to be seen by a doctor, McCarthy said.

Bleecker’s concern is that such medical support for students from poor families, who make up nearly 60 percent of Spokane Public Schools’ student body, is not available.

“I would say over the last five or six years we have lost a lot of the community support for families, such as resources for mental health, public nursing services,” Bleecker said. “That lack of support has had an impact.”

All of this is true and I am not disputing any of it.

But the facts remain the facts. Teachers are expected to teach children now TO READ in kindergarten--while also changing some of their kids' diapers apparently. I very much look at what is. And I do that because we can't fix what's broken if we can't even CONFRONT what's broken.

And my profession is ever adept at dancing around a lot of issues rather than confronting them.

That was from your article.

I know that. How does that change what I said? How does that make it any easier for teachers to teach children to read in the same year they have non-potty trained students in their classes?

It reinforces what I said earlier.

Who said anything about easy? Identifying the nature of the problem is necessary to arrive at a solution. You teacher folk always going on and on and on about problem solving this and problem solving that. Then when we do, you pitch a fit.

I'm solution orientated.

 

[depotoo]

There have always been a few that might have an accident. It happens, but to be wearing diapers/pull-ups, tells me they are not doing their due diligence, unless there is a medical reason.

Sometimes there is no medical reason and then it is reverting back to the difference between not wanting to stop playing or not even being aware. The parents may not even know which direction to go or they may not have access to resources.

So, then we need to start looking at environments. Start from the outside in. What does the neighborhood look like? What is the level of violence in the neighborhood? Who are the primary caretakers? What is the family structure? What is the socioeconomic status? How many siblings?

Access to resources? I don’t follow.
And blaming it on a neighborhood, socioeconomic status is a scapegoat. I would imagine there are those of all socioeconomic statuses that also take the easier route, just because it is easier.

Yes. If you stop questioning right there, then you have a scapegoat. I agree with that. And No. If we know from the get go that trauma impacts children in different ways then all you are doing is ruling things out. The key thing is not to stop questioning until you have an answer.

It is trending up. For one thing, today’s diapers and pull-ups completely wick away the wetness so a child doesn’t even feel discomfort when they pee in them. It traditionally had been that discomfort that helped kids decide it was better to go in the toilet, rather than in their diapers. They don’t have to deal with that today.

If it were my kinder-aged five year old with this situation, I would first take him/her to every single professional necessary: the doctor, a counselor, etc. If there was found to be no problems, I would take a leave from work and homeschool my child until that issue was solved. No pull ups, no diapers, and I would tell my child, lovingly but firmly, "In our home five year olds take care of their own toileting. You will either take care of your poop and pee by flushing it away in the toilet, or you will help me clean it out of your underwear."

Natural consequences, folks.

If you’re like me, it would happen before 5 even. Boys always seem to be later, but if they still refuse by 4, and nothing is medically wrong, then that would be my approach. I realize many kids may still have an occasional accident, but that is to be expected, and reminders once again to listen to their body telling them their bladder, etc is full would be in store.
If there is bed wetting, then no drinks after a certain hour, going before they go to bed, and nothing with caffeine or sugar, either.
[

 

[depotoo]

What is wrong with parents today?

I loved disposables, but if they had never been invented, this would not be happening.

You blame the diapers for parental negligence? Walk me through that.

Disposables. Before disposables one had to clean cloth diapers in the toilet. It was not a fun thing to do at all. Then they had to be washed, whether by hand or washing machine. A parent would want to get them potty trained as soon as they could. With the advent of disposables, parents no longer had to deal with that.

Disposable diapers have been in use since the 1960's.

They were not widely used then. My kids, born in the ‘80’s, I used disposables, but when they wet in them, they still would feel the wetness, and some would even leak around the edges. Today’s disposables, when you go to change a wet diaper, there is no wetness against the skin at all. They have improved immensely.

 

[depotoo]

You can't buy that it's happening?

It's happening even in the UK:

Infant school recruits nappy changer because so many kids aren't toilet trained

And in Spokane WA:

Students who aren’t potty trained an issue for kindergarten teachers

For those who are not, about 20 percent refuse to learn to use the toilet for a variety of reasons, including excessive parent and child conflict, the child’s parents attempted to start training too early, irrational fears about going to the bathroom, a child’s difficult temperament or even constipation.

Generally, if a child is 5 and still not potty trained, the child needs to be seen by a doctor, McCarthy said.

Bleecker’s concern is that such medical support for students from poor families, who make up nearly 60 percent of Spokane Public Schools’ student body, is not available.

“I would say over the last five or six years we have lost a lot of the community support for families, such as resources for mental health, public nursing services,” Bleecker said. “That lack of support has had an impact.”

All of this is true and I am not disputing any of it.

But the facts remain the facts. Teachers are expected to teach children now TO READ in kindergarten--while also changing some of their kids' diapers apparently. I very much look at what is. And I do that because we can't fix what's broken if we can't even CONFRONT what's broken.

And my profession is ever adept at dancing around a lot of issues rather than confronting them.

That was from your article.

I know that. How does that change what I said? How does that make it any easier for teachers to teach children to read in the same year they have non-potty trained students in their classes?

It reinforces what I said earlier.

Who said anything about easy? Identifying the nature of the problem is necessary to arrive at a solution. You teacher folk always going on and on and on about problem solving this and problem solving that. Then when we do, you pitch a fit.

I'm solution orientated.

It sounds more like you want to find other reasons for a parents negligence, than just that. We are not talking about the exceptions here.

 

[Disir]

For those who are not, about 20 percent refuse to learn to use the toilet for a variety of reasons, including excessive parent and child conflict, the child’s parents attempted to start training too early, irrational fears about going to the bathroom, a child’s difficult temperament or even constipation.

Generally, if a child is 5 and still not potty trained, the child needs to be seen by a doctor, McCarthy said.

Bleecker’s concern is that such medical support for students from poor families, who make up nearly 60 percent of Spokane Public Schools’ student body, is not available.

“I would say over the last five or six years we have lost a lot of the community support for families, such as resources for mental health, public nursing services,” Bleecker said. “That lack of support has had an impact.”

All of this is true and I am not disputing any of it.

But the facts remain the facts. Teachers are expected to teach children now TO READ in kindergarten--while also changing some of their kids' diapers apparently. I very much look at what is. And I do that because we can't fix what's broken if we can't even CONFRONT what's broken.

And my profession is ever adept at dancing around a lot of issues rather than confronting them.

That was from your article.

I know that. How does that change what I said? How does that make it any easier for teachers to teach children to read in the same year they have non-potty trained students in their classes?

It reinforces what I said earlier.

Who said anything about easy? Identifying the nature of the problem is necessary to arrive at a solution. You teacher folk always going on and on and on about problem solving this and problem solving that. Then when we do, you pitch a fit.

I'm solution orientated.

It sounds more like you want to find other reasons for a parents negligence, than just that. We are not talking about the exceptions here.

I want to target it. There is no shortage of negligent parents. I'm looking for an underlying cause using the process of elimination.

 

[depotoo]

All of this is true and I am not disputing any of it.

But the facts remain the facts. Teachers are expected to teach children now TO READ in kindergarten--while also changing some of their kids' diapers apparently. I very much look at what is. And I do that because we can't fix what's broken if we can't even CONFRONT what's broken.

And my profession is ever adept at dancing around a lot of issues rather than confronting them.

That was from your article.

I know that. How does that change what I said? How does that make it any easier for teachers to teach children to read in the same year they have non-potty trained students in their classes?

It reinforces what I said earlier.

Who said anything about easy? Identifying the nature of the problem is necessary to arrive at a solution. You teacher folk always going on and on and on about problem solving this and problem solving that. Then when we do, you pitch a fit.

I'm solution orientated.

It sounds more like you want to find other reasons for a parents negligence, than just that. We are not talking about the exceptions here.

I want to target it. There is no shortage of negligent parents. I'm looking for an underlying cause using the process of elimination.

What you are failing to acknowledge is many are simply lazy. That has no cause other than, well laziness.

 

[Disir]

That was from your article.

I know that. How does that change what I said? How does that make it any easier for teachers to teach children to read in the same year they have non-potty trained students in their classes?

It reinforces what I said earlier.

Who said anything about easy? Identifying the nature of the problem is necessary to arrive at a solution. You teacher folk always going on and on and on about problem solving this and problem solving that. Then when we do, you pitch a fit.

I'm solution orientated.

It sounds more like you want to find other reasons for a parents negligence, than just that. We are not talking about the exceptions here.

I want to target it. There is no shortage of negligent parents. I'm looking for an underlying cause using the process of elimination.

What you are failing to acknowledge is many are simply lazy. That has no cause other than, well laziness.

What you want me to do is to start there. I don't know a whole lot of people that can afford to buy pull-ups for a 5, 6, 7, 8 year old and it's definitely harder with other children in the picture. That's an expense that people want to get rid of. We can vent, commiserate, talk about the parenting practices of yore but that doesn't go anywhere. I have seen people opine on the causes as those parents today but there is no evidence to support that with the information provided. There is no shortage of negligent parents but don't you think we should be able to show they are negligent rather than just damning them because of how we feel about the situation?

What I do know is there are severe reactions to different types of trauma past or present and it is either from outside the home or from the inside. If telling that kid to clean up his own mess doesn't work, and it's not medical, then it's psychological.

 

[OldLady]

As a rarity, it's acceptable. Some kids don't progress well.

As a rule, or even a commonality, it's a problem.

There have always been a few that might have an accident. It happens, but to be wearing diapers/pull-ups, tells me they are not doing their due diligence, unless there is a medical reason.

Sometimes there is no medical reason and then it is reverting back to the difference between not wanting to stop playing or not even being aware. The parents may not even know which direction to go or they may not have access to resources.

So, then we need to start looking at environments. Start from the outside in. What does the neighborhood look like? What is the level of violence in the neighborhood? Who are the primary caretakers? What is the family structure? What is the socioeconomic status? How many siblings?

Access to resources? I don’t follow.
And blaming it on a neighborhood, socioeconomic status is a scapegoat. I would imagine there are those of all socioeconomic statuses that also take the easier route, just because it is easier.

There is nothing EASIER about having a kid soiling himself at 5 years old!

So, you believe this trend of more and more not being trained has to do with what?

TBH, I do not believe it. OP would like me to believe that there are a growing number of parents out there who are happy to change their five year old's shitty diapers because they are too lazy to potty train them.
Nope. Never happened.
When I assessed child safety, if I saw a child that old who was not potty trained, I would ask what was going on and make sure the parent was on top of the problem. Actually, I only ran into it once with a school aged child, and she was so horribly neglected and abused that we took her into custody the day I met her. Wetting the bed, sure. But an otherwise normal kid? Even the most neglectful drug addicts don't want to deal with diapers, folks. At least that has been my experience.

OP routinely bitches about special needs students in regular classrooms and while I don't really blame her for blowing off steam, I think this is more of the same.

 

[OldLady]

Sometimes there is no medical reason and then it is reverting back to the difference between not wanting to stop playing or not even being aware. The parents may not even know which direction to go or they may not have access to resources.

So, then we need to start looking at environments. Start from the outside in. What does the neighborhood look like? What is the level of violence in the neighborhood? Who are the primary caretakers? What is the family structure? What is the socioeconomic status? How many siblings?

Access to resources? I don’t follow.
And blaming it on a neighborhood, socioeconomic status is a scapegoat. I would imagine there are those of all socioeconomic statuses that also take the easier route, just because it is easier.

Yes. If you stop questioning right there, then you have a scapegoat. I agree with that. And No. If we know from the get go that trauma impacts children in different ways then all you are doing is ruling things out. The key thing is not to stop questioning until you have an answer.

It is trending up. For one thing, today’s diapers and pull-ups completely wick away the wetness so a child doesn’t even feel discomfort when they pee in them. It traditionally had been that discomfort that helped kids decide it was better to go in the toilet, rather than in their diapers. They don’t have to deal with that today.

If it were my kinder-aged five year old with this situation, I would first take him/her to every single professional necessary: the doctor, a counselor, etc. If there was found to be no problems, I would take a leave from work and homeschool my child until that issue was solved. No pull ups, no diapers, and I would tell my child, lovingly but firmly, "In our home five year olds take care of their own toileting. You will either take care of your poop and pee by flushing it away in the toilet, or you will help me clean it out of your underwear."

Natural consequences, folks.

If you’re like me, it would happen before 5 even. Boys always seem to be later, but if they still refuse by 4, and nothing is medically wrong, then that would be my approach. I realize many kids may still have an occasional accident, but that is to be expected, and reminders once again to listen to their body telling them their bladder, etc is full would be in store.
If there is bed wetting, then no drinks after a certain hour, going before they go to bed, and nothing with caffeine or sugar, either.
[

Bed wetting is usually caused by deep sleep. Some kids don't outgrow it until adolescence.

 

[bodecea]

You read that right. Not only in my district but apparently everywhere. Students coming to kindergarten and REMAINING in kind. in pull-ups. And having bowel "accidents" in pull-ups. Many of these students are not special needs, either. They have no known medical, physical, behavioral or emotional problems.

Naturally the important thing is that these students not be mocked and feel no pressure whatsoever....

Buffalo Teachers Say Having To Change Kids' Diapers Is A Bum Deal

Not housebroken yet?

"Most of it is concentrated in kindergarten and pre-K. However, we have some students that are 5, 6 and 7 years old that are having a similar issue."

How typically Progressive. Pathetic.

I would be concerned about abuse with that.

 

[bodecea]

You read that right. Not only in my district but apparently everywhere. Students coming to kindergarten and REMAINING in kind. in pull-ups. And having bowel "accidents" in pull-ups. Many of these students are not special needs, either. They have no known medical, physical, behavioral or emotional problems.

Naturally the important thing is that these students not be mocked and feel no pressure whatsoever....

Buffalo Teachers Say Having To Change Kids' Diapers Is A Bum Deal

You read that right. Not only in my district but apparently everywhere. Students coming to kindergarten and REMAINING in kind. in pull-ups. And having bowel "accidents" in pull-ups. Many of these students are not special needs, either. They have no known medical, physical, behavioral or emotional problems.

Naturally the important thing is that these students not be mocked and feel no pressure whatsoever....

Buffalo Teachers Say Having To Change Kids' Diapers Is A Bum Deal

I would be careful with that. If you have a 5, 6, 7 year old in pull ups then you have something else going on. It is not uncommon for kids to regress. Schools seldom have the full picture.

I wonder then why it seems to be an epidemic that we have only seen recently. I had never, ever heard of this in my 25 years of teaching before, say, the last 5 years.

In 1961, when I was in first grade, one of my classmates wet himself several times. He wasn't "special." He just had accidents sometimes. His mom sent him extra pants to change into.

The reason for these normal children at the edge of the developmental spectrum when it comes to potty training is that they get so engrossed in what is going on that they don't notice in time that their bladder is full or that their bowels are rumbling. It embarrasses them as much as it annoys the teacher. They DO grow out of it.

I knew when I first read your OP that you would blame this on the dissolution of society. That's bosh. Do you really think there is a parent in this country that wouldn't LOVE to see their 4 or 5 year old potty trained? REALLY, Sue?

Maybe you're just hearing about this because it wasn't talked about before. Now it is some big deal that ultra conservatives will rush to exploit in order to show that LIBERALS don't potty train their children.

This is disgusting.

Buffalo isn't exactly a hotbed of liberal parents.

 

[Coyote]

You read that right. Not only in my district but apparently everywhere. Students coming to kindergarten and REMAINING in kind. in pull-ups. And having bowel "accidents" in pull-ups. Many of these students are not special needs, either. They have no known medical, physical, behavioral or emotional problems.

Naturally the important thing is that these students not be mocked and feel no pressure whatsoever....

Buffalo Teachers Say Having To Change Kids' Diapers Is A Bum Deal

Not housebroken yet?

"Most of it is concentrated in kindergarten and pre-K. However, we have some students that are 5, 6 and 7 years old that are having a similar issue."

How typically Progressive. Pathetic.

Nothing to with political leanings.

 

[gallantwarrior]

You read that right. Not only in my district but apparently everywhere. Students coming to kindergarten and REMAINING in kind. in pull-ups. And having bowel "accidents" in pull-ups. Many of these students are not special needs, either. They have no known medical, physical, behavioral or emotional problems.

Naturally the important thing is that these students not be mocked and feel no pressure whatsoever....

Buffalo Teachers Say Having To Change Kids' Diapers Is A Bum Deal

You read that right. Not only in my district but apparently everywhere. Students coming to kindergarten and REMAINING in kind. in pull-ups. And having bowel "accidents" in pull-ups. Many of these students are not special needs, either. They have no known medical, physical, behavioral or emotional problems.

Naturally the important thing is that these students not be mocked and feel no pressure whatsoever....

Buffalo Teachers Say Having To Change Kids' Diapers Is A Bum Deal

I would be careful with that. If you have a 5, 6, 7 year old in pull ups then you have something else going on. It is not uncommon for kids to regress. Schools seldom have the full picture.

I wonder then why it seems to be an epidemic that we have only seen recently. I had never, ever heard of this in my 25 years of teaching before, say, the last 5 years.

In 1961, when I was in first grade, one of my classmates wet himself several times. He wasn't "special." He just had accidents sometimes. His mom sent him extra pants to change into.

The reason for these normal children at the edge of the developmental spectrum when it comes to potty training is that they get so engrossed in what is going on that they don't notice in time that their bladder is full or that their bowels are rumbling. It embarrasses them as much as it annoys the teacher. They DO grow out of it.

I knew when I first read your OP that you would blame this on the dissolution of society. That's bosh. Do you really think there is a parent in this country that wouldn't LOVE to see their 4 or 5 year old potty trained? REALLY, Sue?

Maybe you're just hearing about this because it wasn't talked about before. Now it is some big deal that ultra conservatives will rush to exploit in order to show that LIBERALS don't potty train their children.

This is disgusting.

Do we know conclusively that all the parents with children having this issue are liberals? How do we know this?

 

[Coyote]

What is wrong with parents today?

I loved disposables, but if they had never been invented, this would not be happening.

You blame the diapers for parental negligence? Walk me through that.

You are right. It was still parental negligence.
But before disposables one had to clean cloth diapers in the toilet. It was not a fun thing to do at all. Then they had to be washed, whether by hand or washing machine. A parent would want to get them potty trained as soon as they could. With the advent of disposables, parents no longer had to deal with that, and less incentive to do so quickly.

Somewhere I heard that modern dsy disposables are so efficient the child doesnt feel the discomfort of a wet diaper and is less likely to be aware of it.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

As it was explained to me, potty training children is harmful to their self esteem. Telling them that a behavior is wrong should never be done. The children will get the idea naturally.

 

[OldLady]

You read that right. Not only in my district but apparently everywhere. Students coming to kindergarten and REMAINING in kind. in pull-ups. And having bowel "accidents" in pull-ups. Many of these students are not special needs, either. They have no known medical, physical, behavioral or emotional problems.

Naturally the important thing is that these students not be mocked and feel no pressure whatsoever....

Buffalo Teachers Say Having To Change Kids' Diapers Is A Bum Deal

You read that right. Not only in my district but apparently everywhere. Students coming to kindergarten and REMAINING in kind. in pull-ups. And having bowel "accidents" in pull-ups. Many of these students are not special needs, either. They have no known medical, physical, behavioral or emotional problems.

Naturally the important thing is that these students not be mocked and feel no pressure whatsoever....

Buffalo Teachers Say Having To Change Kids' Diapers Is A Bum Deal

I would be careful with that. If you have a 5, 6, 7 year old in pull ups then you have something else going on. It is not uncommon for kids to regress. Schools seldom have the full picture.

I wonder then why it seems to be an epidemic that we have only seen recently. I had never, ever heard of this in my 25 years of teaching before, say, the last 5 years.

In 1961, when I was in first grade, one of my classmates wet himself several times. He wasn't "special." He just had accidents sometimes. His mom sent him extra pants to change into.

The reason for these normal children at the edge of the developmental spectrum when it comes to potty training is that they get so engrossed in what is going on that they don't notice in time that their bladder is full or that their bowels are rumbling. It embarrasses them as much as it annoys the teacher. They DO grow out of it.

I knew when I first read your OP that you would blame this on the dissolution of society. That's bosh. Do you really think there is a parent in this country that wouldn't LOVE to see their 4 or 5 year old potty trained? REALLY, Sue?

Maybe you're just hearing about this because it wasn't talked about before. Now it is some big deal that ultra conservatives will rush to exploit in order to show that LIBERALS don't potty train their children.

This is disgusting.

Buffalo isn't exactly a hotbed of liberal parents.

You can say that again!

 

[OldLady]

As it was explained to me, potty training children is harmful to their self esteem. Telling them that a behavior is wrong should never be done. The children will get the idea naturally.

As you do fifty times a day, you are lying. No one told you that. You made it up.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

You read that right. Not only in my district but apparently everywhere. Students coming to kindergarten and REMAINING in kind. in pull-ups. And having bowel "accidents" in pull-ups. Many of these students are not special needs, either. They have no known medical, physical, behavioral or emotional problems.

Naturally the important thing is that these students not be mocked and feel no pressure whatsoever....

Buffalo Teachers Say Having To Change Kids' Diapers Is A Bum Deal

Not housebroken yet?

"Most of it is concentrated in kindergarten and pre-K. However, we have some students that are 5, 6 and 7 years old that are having a similar issue."

How typically Progressive. Pathetic.

Nothing to with political leanings.

Progressives are fans of permitting their child to develop at its "own rate". There are any number of books and parental guides promoting the practice, and breastfeeding as old as eight.