A question for all the Anti-Israelis on this board

[YKohen]

Thanks Kvetch! We agree: all religious Zionists are convoluted in their logic...religion makes the illogical a matter of faith...The Zionism the UN established is Secular.

And the return of the nation of Israel to the land of Israel is metaphysical.
Maybe it's all merely a "coincidence", right? I mean- there have been numerous other examples in history of a nation being exiled from their land for nearly 2000 years- to the 4 corners of the earth- and not only did they not disappear, not assimilate, but actually returned to their land as was promised in their holy books- right?

Name a few.

Can't? OK, then name one (besides the nation of Israel).

 

[eots]

Omg are you people still going on about Israel 2000 years-ago...

The Rummi says to be here now...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZhDci6nwgU]WookieFoot: This Life is not a test.avi - YouTube[/ame]

 

[YKohen]

Now- we're explaining about Israel today.

Can you answer the question? Maybe it's all merely a "coincidence", right? I mean- there have been numerous other examples in history of a nation being exiled from their land for nearly 2000 years- to the 4 corners of the earth- and not only did they not disappear, not assimilate, but actually returned to their land as was promised in their holy books- right?

Name a few.

Can't? OK, then name one (besides the nation of Israel).

 

[Billo_Really]

Now- we're explaining about Israel today.

Can you answer the question? Maybe it's all merely a "coincidence", right? I mean- there have been numerous other examples in history of a nation being exiled from their land for nearly 2000 years- to the 4 corners of the earth- and not only did they not disappear, not assimilate, but actually returned to their land as was promised in their holy books- right?

Name a few.

Can't? OK, then name one (besides the nation of Israel).

What happened 2000 years ago, doesn't mean shit today.

 

[YKohen]

Now- we're explaining about Israel today.

Can you answer the question? Maybe it's all merely a "coincidence", right? I mean- there have been numerous other examples in history of a nation being exiled from their land for nearly 2000 years- to the 4 corners of the earth- and not only did they not disappear, not assimilate, but actually returned to their land as was promised in their holy books- right?

Name a few.

Can't? OK, then name one (besides the nation of Israel).

What happened 2000 years ago, doesn't mean shit today.

What's happening today does. Can you explain the phenomenon of Jewish survival and return in rational terms?

And it has happened many times.

Can you give other such examples of other nations?

 

[Lipush]

All Anti-Israelis come up with solutions which basically can be sumed up with three words- "into the sea"

You hold onto that thought like its a security blanket. Even in spite of the mountain of evidence that says otherwise, you have to convince yourself that is still the truth. Because you're scared shitless of what might happen if you didn't.

Is dealing with the bad things Israel does to the Pals on a daily basis that painful?

Or do you really believe this "chosen" crap and think you're really are a higher class of people?

I hold that thought as a "security blanket"? Oh, like the way you people hold the thought of a so called "occupation"? "mountain of evidence that say otherwise"? I have seen none of those, because there no such evidence. Scared shitless? No, we're simply more careful, and actually LISTEN when people OPENLY call for our demise.

 

[YKohen]

Scared shitless? No, we're simply more careful, and actually LISTEN when people OPENLY call for our demise.

We know what the would-have-been "Palestinians" are seeking. They keep telling us, but some refuse to listen. Here is their "President" Abbas speaking recently:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdqoMKZaTxU&feature=player_embedded"]Mahmud Abbas about his vision of Israel - YouTube[/ame]

Abbas vows: No room for Israelis in Palest... JPost - Middle East
By KHALED ABU TOAMEH
12/25/2010



Clip Transcript

PA Official Publicly Calls for Genocide of Jews - Middle East - News - Israel National News

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kDoV8ZL9Xkc"]PA Mufti: Muslims will kill Jews in name of Islam - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CkImOGcHcw"]Nabil Shaath: We'll Never Accept "Two-States for Two Peoples" Solution - YouTube[/ame]

We hear them loud and clear.

 

[Lipush]

"עיניים להם, ולא יראו"

 

[kvetch]

Y-Kohen

you asked me about zionist christians view of jewish prophecy

just imagine for a second you are a christian who believes christ was the messiah

if that were true, all the old jewish prophecies would already have been fulfilled 2,000 years ago would they not?

!) the jews return from exile in babylon where all the return prophecies except hezekiah were actually written
2) Christ arrives in israel

job done....for them, but not for you

yet they have been duped by neten yahoo and others who dont even believe in god or the bible that israel's existence is a fulfilment of the old jewish prophecies

for you....and jews......it could be

but not for ignorant gullible christians who dont know the first thing about the jewish prophecies in the bible!!

get it?? it really aint difficult.

the only reference in the bible to a 2nd in-gathering of jews is in revelation as i said

and that is total genocide for all non christ believers including you

if christ arrives again....get the hell out of israel

or get him locked up in your jerusalem syndrome lunatic asylum pretty damn quick!!

the last people who would recognise the real jesus are such "christians", anyway

Of course I get it.

Christianity has a real theological problem with the return of the nation of Israel to its land. Some denominations have ignored it theologically- although it's a huge issue; the elephant in the room.

Others have had to come up with a new theory to try and understand how it could be that everything is unfolding according to Jewish tradition and theology and not according to their own.

But as I mentioned previously, in Judaism, what really counts is actions, and therefore I welcome their support- even while realizing what they believe. Why? Let's see what the Rambam; Maimonides, wrote more than 900 years ago:

Ultimately, all the deeds of Jesus of Nazareth and that Ishmaelite who arose after him will only serve to prepare the way for Mashiach's coming and the improvement of the entire world, motivating the nations to serve God together as Tzephaniah 3:9 states: 'I will transform the peoples to a purer language that they all will call upon the name of God and serve Him with one purpose.'

How will this come about? The entire world has already become filled with the mention of Mashiach, Torah, and mitzvot. These matters have been spread to the furthermost islands to many stubborn-hearted nations. They discuss these matters and the mitzvot of the Torah, saying: 'These mitzvot were true, but were already negated in the present age and are not applicable for all time.'

Others say: 'Implied in the mitzvot are hidden concepts that can not be understood simply. The Mashiach has already come and revealed those hidden truths.'

When the true Messianic king will arise and prove successful, his position becoming exalted and uplifted, they will all return and realize that their ancestors endowed them with a false heritage and their prophets and ancestors caused them to err.
​

I already see changes happening- even among non-Evangelicals.

So again, I welcome their acts of support, because we know that ultimately: "... the L-RD shall be King over all the earth; in that day shall the L-RD be One, and His name one." (Zechariah 14:9)

I wish I had read Rambam; he surely was wonderful

might well be much more educational to read him than it is posting here!!


Thanks for that, at least!!

 

[YKohen]

Y-Kohen

you asked me about zionist christians view of jewish prophecy

just imagine for a second you are a christian who believes christ was the messiah

if that were true, all the old jewish prophecies would already have been fulfilled 2,000 years ago would they not?

!) the jews return from exile in babylon where all the return prophecies except hezekiah were actually written
2) Christ arrives in israel

job done....for them, but not for you

yet they have been duped by neten yahoo and others who dont even believe in god or the bible that israel's existence is a fulfilment of the old jewish prophecies

for you....and jews......it could be

but not for ignorant gullible christians who dont know the first thing about the jewish prophecies in the bible!!

get it?? it really aint difficult.

the only reference in the bible to a 2nd in-gathering of jews is in revelation as i said

and that is total genocide for all non christ believers including you

if christ arrives again....get the hell out of israel

or get him locked up in your jerusalem syndrome lunatic asylum pretty damn quick!!

the last people who would recognise the real jesus are such "christians", anyway

Of course I get it.

Christianity has a real theological problem with the return of the nation of Israel to its land. Some denominations have ignored it theologically- although it's a huge issue; the elephant in the room.

Others have had to come up with a new theory to try and understand how it could be that everything is unfolding according to Jewish tradition and theology and not according to their own.

But as I mentioned previously, in Judaism, what really counts is actions, and therefore I welcome their support- even while realizing what they believe. Why? Let's see what the Rambam; Maimonides, wrote more than 900 years ago:

Ultimately, all the deeds of Jesus of Nazareth and that Ishmaelite who arose after him will only serve to prepare the way for Mashiach's coming and the improvement of the entire world, motivating the nations to serve God together as Tzephaniah 3:9 states: 'I will transform the peoples to a purer language that they all will call upon the name of God and serve Him with one purpose.'

How will this come about? The entire world has already become filled with the mention of Mashiach, Torah, and mitzvot. These matters have been spread to the furthermost islands to many stubborn-hearted nations. They discuss these matters and the mitzvot of the Torah, saying: 'These mitzvot were true, but were already negated in the present age and are not applicable for all time.'

Others say: 'Implied in the mitzvot are hidden concepts that can not be understood simply. The Mashiach has already come and revealed those hidden truths.'

When the true Messianic king will arise and prove successful, his position becoming exalted and uplifted, they will all return and realize that their ancestors endowed them with a false heritage and their prophets and ancestors caused them to err.
​

I already see changes happening- even among non-Evangelicals.

So again, I welcome their acts of support, because we know that ultimately: "... the L-RD shall be King over all the earth; in that day shall the L-RD be One, and His name one." (Zechariah 14:9)

I wish I had read Rambam; he surely was wonderful

might well be much more educational to read him than it is posting here!!

Thanks for that, at least!!

It's never too late to start learning.

Rabbi Akiva, one of the greatest sages ever (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbi_Akiba), didn't start studying torah until he was 40. And Reish Lakish, who also became one of the greatest sages of the Talmud, was a criminal- a robber (and a gladiator) before he began learning torah (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simeon_ben_Lakisch). If they could do it, then so can you.

 

[Billo_Really]

I hold that thought as a "security blanket"? Oh, like the way you people hold the thought of a so called "occupation"? "mountain of evidence that say otherwise"? I have seen none of those, because there no such evidence. Scared shitless? No, we're simply more careful, and actually LISTEN when people OPENLY call for our demise.

And when they don't, you don't listen at all.

The "occupation" is not a debatable issue. It is, what it is.

 

[Billo_Really]

What's happening today does. Can you explain the phenomenon of Jewish survival and return in rational terms?

And it has happened many times.

Can you give other such examples of other nations?

Why? I could care less about Jewish survival. It's not my dance. I'm not jewish; I don't live in Israel; what goes on there does not affect my daily life at all in any way.

But the one thing I don't like, is people deliberately trying to bullshit me, or fuckin' hypocrites who think they can live by a different set of rules that anyone else. And Israeli's seem to have that in spades. So fuck'em. Fuck Israel. It doesn't mean shit to me.

 

[YKohen]

I hold that thought as a "security blanket"? Oh, like the way you people hold the thought of a so called "occupation"? "mountain of evidence that say otherwise"? I have seen none of those, because there no such evidence. Scared shitless? No, we're simply more careful, and actually LISTEN when people OPENLY call for our demise.

And when they don't, you don't listen at all.

The "occupation" is not a debatable issue. It is, what it is.

It isn't an "occupation". For territories to be occupied, they must be occupied from a STATE:
Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949

Article 2: ...the present Convention shall apply to all cases of declared war or of any other armed conflict which may arise between two or more of the High Contracting Parties...."

International Humanitarian Law - Fourth 1949 Geneva Convention

"High Contracting Parties" mean STATES- not the PLO or some mythical place called "Palestine", which was NEVER a state.

Convention (IV) respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land and its annex: Regulations concerning the Laws and Customs of War on Land. The Hague, 18 October 1907

SECTION III
MILITARY AUTHORITY OVER THE TERRITORY OF THE HOSTILE STATE

Art. 42. Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army. The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.

International Humanitarian Law - Hague Convention IV 1907

And what Berkeley professor of law John Yoo points out is applicaple to the PLO, Hamas, and the other Philistines JUST as it is applicaple to the Taliban:

"…the conflict with al Qaeda is not governed by the Geneva Conventions, which applies only to international conflicts between states that have signed them. Al Qaeda is not a nation-state, and its members--as they demonstrated so horrifically on Sept. 11, 2001--violate the very core principle of the laws of war by targeting innocent civilians for destruction."

Terrorists Have No Geneva Rights - Foreign and Defense Policy - AEI

Nobody is "occupying" anything here.

But we did liberate OUR land.

 

[YKohen]

The fact is that you can't explain the phenomenon of Jewish survival- and the return to OUR land.

I understand.

 

[Billo_Really]

It isn't an "occupation". For territories to be occupied, they must be occupied from a STATE:
Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949

Article 2: ...the present Convention shall apply to all cases of declared war or of any other armed conflict which may arise between two or more of the High Contracting Parties...."

International Humanitarian Law - Fourth 1949 Geneva Convention

"High Contracting Parties" mean STATES- not the PLO or some mythical place called "Palestine", which was NEVER a state.

Convention (IV) respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land and its annex: Regulations concerning the Laws and Customs of War on Land. The Hague, 18 October 1907

SECTION III
MILITARY AUTHORITY OVER THE TERRITORY OF THE HOSTILE STATE

Art. 42. Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army. The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.

International Humanitarian Law - Hague Convention IV 1907

And what Berkeley professor of law John Yoo points out is applicaple to the PLO, Hamas, and the other Philistines JUST as it is applicaple to the Taliban:

"…the conflict with al Qaeda is not governed by the Geneva Conventions, which applies only to international conflicts between states that have signed them. Al Qaeda is not a nation-state, and its members--as they demonstrated so horrifically on Sept. 11, 2001--violate the very core principle of the laws of war by targeting innocent civilians for destruction."

Terrorists Have No Geneva Rights - Foreign and Defense Policy - AEI

Nobody is "occupying" anything here.

But we did liberate OUR land.

Don't quote John Yoo to me, that fucker should be in prison!

These have been referred to as the "occupied territories" for over 50 years. Even the Israeli Supreme Court refers to them as "occupied", you're not going to redefine it now.

 

[Billo_Really]

The fact is that you can't explain the phenomenon of Jewish survival- and the return to OUR land.

I understand.

The fact is, I don't care to.

BTW, the diaspora never happened.

 

[kvetch]

back to reality:

Today's quote from israeli press:

"After the next unnecessary war, after you cry over those who fell, make a Google search for the interview by Udi Segel with Abu Mazen (Mahmoud Abbas) on the 2nd of November 2012, where a courageous Palestinian leader offers a solution acceptable to most of the residents of Israel..."

--Maariv columnist and Israeli poet Yonatan Gefen slams his 'wall' of a leader.**

and:

Far-right wing activists have announced will be at Doha soccer stadium in Sakhnin village on Saturday, Yedioth reported. National Union MK Michael Ben-Ari, Baruch Marzel and Itamar Ben-Gvir bought tickets to the soccer game between the Arab team Sakhnin and the right-wing-identified team Beitar Jerusalem and told the police they will be arriving with activists carrying Israeli flags. Three hundred police, 150 ushers and a police helicopter hovering overhead will attempt to keep the peace. One of the people expected to watch the game is Muhammed Zbeidat, who lost an eye from a rubber bullet during a game between the two teams last year.

 

[YKohen]

It isn't an "occupation". For territories to be occupied, they must be occupied from a STATE:
Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949

Article 2: ...the present Convention shall apply to all cases of declared war or of any other armed conflict which may arise between two or more of the High Contracting Parties...."

International Humanitarian Law - Fourth 1949 Geneva Convention

"High Contracting Parties" mean STATES- not the PLO or some mythical place called "Palestine", which was NEVER a state.

Convention (IV) respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land and its annex: Regulations concerning the Laws and Customs of War on Land. The Hague, 18 October 1907

SECTION III
MILITARY AUTHORITY OVER THE TERRITORY OF THE HOSTILE STATE

Art. 42. Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army. The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.

International Humanitarian Law - Hague Convention IV 1907

And what Berkeley professor of law John Yoo points out is applicaple to the PLO, Hamas, and the other Philistines JUST as it is applicaple to the Taliban:

"…the conflict with al Qaeda is not governed by the Geneva Conventions, which applies only to international conflicts between states that have signed them. Al Qaeda is not a nation-state, and its members--as they demonstrated so horrifically on Sept. 11, 2001--violate the very core principle of the laws of war by targeting innocent civilians for destruction."

Terrorists Have No Geneva Rights - Foreign and Defense Policy - AEI

Nobody is "occupying" anything here.

But we did liberate OUR land.

Don't quote John Yoo to me, that fucker should be in prison!

These have been referred to as the "occupied territories" for over 50 years. Even the Israeli Supreme Court refers to them as "occupied", you're not going to redefine it now.

I suppose someone who knows how to read plain English needs to read these to those who evidently can't read plain English.

 

[YKohen]

The fact is that you can't explain the phenomenon of Jewish survival- and the return to OUR land.

I understand.

The fact is, I don't care to.

BTW, the diaspora never happened.

The fact is you can't.
BTW- The fact is you can't.

 

[YKohen]

back to reality:

How DARE Israelis have Israeli flags in Israel! The nerve!