A question for all thinking people in America!

[Lesh]

LefTards honestly believe that shit happens from the bottom up....they genuinely believe the guy pushing the broom at Microsoft built the PC empire.

You can worship the rich if you choose ( probably why you are a broke loser) but I choose to celebrate the working man and middle class

 

[Tehon]

One needs to have a solid grasp of the philosophy in order to understand how the state could just wither away. It is implied.

Therein lies the problem. If all one has is an implied result, that tells us that one has no idea if their ism will work

I don't believe anything is in place for a social revolution of the means of production. Not by a long shot.

We've had a completely government manipulated, socialist, monopolized, monetary policy for the greater part of the last hundred years. What that's caused is wage stagnation and disparity in the working class, it's put us 21 trillion in debt, and it's debased our dollar and now they're all complaining about it and blaming it on capitalism and turning around and saying capitalism is so bad, what we need to fix it is socialism, we need more government to fix it, when it, in fact, is our socialist monetary policy which that has caused all of this disparity in the first place.

I think the electorate is just ignorant to what socialism is, because if people understood socialism well enough to go beyond the narrative about production and try to see that our monetary policy itself is patently socialist and the root cause of everything that is destructive to our economy, particularly the huge wealth gap, I think the last thing they'd be asking for is more socialism.

Socialism is what got us in the mess we're in.

There is no problem, dude. You either understand the theory or you don't. You are clearly working off your own conception of socialism, not Marx's.

 

[Likkmee]

Here lies your answer. Elected public " servants" should not receive any salary, benefits , retirement, free flights, nothing of the sort. They are supposed to be "serving". They should also not be allowed to own any sort of stock portfolios. Small non public companies like franchise restaurants or construction companies would be fine as long as they are scrutinized and not involved in any sort of govt contracts be it local, state and certainly not federal. This is not a USA only clause. ANYWHERE. Then, and only then, will you get elected officials who actually give a fuck about YOU.

 

[OnePercenter]

So, Leftist/Democrats believe that corporations/company's are crooked, and out to screw people for the most part, while being out for only money/profit. Is this not true of their basic ideology? That is their big complaint about Capitalism.

So who runs these entities? Is it, A Martians? B reptiles, C Neptunians, or D human beings?

Now then, if you didn't pick D, then this thread is NOT for you, lol.

And so, with D being human beings, what is their solution? Is it, A put Martians in charge of government, or B put reptiles in charge of government, C put Neptunians in charge of government, or D put humans in charge of government and let them control everything?

So now, they want YOU to believe that human beings...…...the same human beings who THEY insist are out to screw you, they now want to give not only massive amounts of YOUR money...………...plus massive amounts of corporate money...………..plus something the CEOs and heads of company's do NOT have; MASSIVE AMOUNTS of POWER over everyone, and these saints are going to somehow save you, and not be corrupt, lolololololol.

Let us look at where these supposed saints are leading now----------> CHICAGO, hehehehehehe! In fact, this saint used to be chief of staff for Obysmal. How is that working out for the denizens of Chicago?

What about the saintly politicians of California? Why, everytime the people vote on referendum votes and they don't like it, they over turn the will of the people!

Lets look at these saints across the country, lolol. Why, our President was voted in LEGALLY by our system. Wasn't even close! But the saints can't have that, so they will do everything to over turn the election, Walmart smelly people be damned!

Sooooooooooooo, the question is simple-----------> Do YOU the voter control the states, and the federal government, or do they control you? Are these supposed saints, really saints; or rather, are they tyrants trying to take power out of your hands? Are they that smart, or are they that power hungry?

Do you really believe that the same kind of arrogant people who run corporations who took a different path and went into politics instead, should be trusted to control as much of your life as these Leftists want to control?

If you find 1 great person to do what the Left wants, he/she can only be elected twice. So, can you find the 2nd one to be so benevolent? NOT LIKELY you can even find the 1st!

Do you want people who beat the hell out of people they disagree with to be in charge? And do we all realize that the only way they can institute their ideas is to bankrupt the country faaaaaaaaar worse than it already is, or raise taxes so high, they will confiscate your wealth at the point of a gun?

Republicans SUCK! Leftists are 3 times worse. Their ideas suck so bad, all they have is to say Republicans suck, lol. (which is true, probably the only thing they have as truth, but I bet if they define themselves, they won't admit that they are 3 times worse)

We have a choice to make, and the Left wants you to give them power as they are saints. Do any of them remind you of Mother Theresa? Hell, do any of them remind you of JFK? Or rather, do they remind you of a bunch of people, trying to find an excuse, to tell you are were stupid, dumb, and a bunch of rubes, and they know better than you do, so they are just going to FORCE you to see it their way!

Are you a thinking person?

Do you not understand that the capitalist system of production creates a ruling class? And do you not understand the immense social power that the ruling class wields over the population?

What / who exactly is this ruling class?
I never did anything special....I was ambitious and committed to success, I went to school, got an education, saved some cash and invested in me....I’ve never once felt inferior to or controlled by a “ruling class”. Help me understand.

All to be now the poor with credit class.

 

[Pete7469]

If I pay a politician to give me a tax break, at the expense of causing a deficit or higher taxes on everyone else, that is NOT capitalism.

And that is the system we have today, folks.

If you paid a politician money, as an investment on future returns, that is exactly capitalism.

I call it corruption.

Political whores are not supposed to make decisions or draft legislation in exchange for anything.

That is not capitalism.

 

[BrokeLoser]

LefTards honestly believe that shit happens from the bottom up....they genuinely believe the guy pushing the broom at Microsoft built the PC empire.

You can worship the rich if you choose ( probably why you are a broke loser) but I choose to celebrate the working man and middle class

Awesome...sounds noble as fuck...but I call BULLSHIT!
Like the Mexicrat Party, you LefTards can’t give two shits about the middle class. You ignorant fools do nothing but “celebrate” wetbacks and the rest of the lowest one third, the filth of America. Every policy pushed and everything said by you lowlifes is aimed to support the lowest grade.
Further, I’ve never “worshiped” the rich but I’ve never hated them for kicking ass at life either.

 

[Pete7469]

This is why I know you are not a thinking person.

There always has been, and always will be a small group of people who "rule" over the majority.

There will always be a class of people who have the best shit money can buy, and there will always be a lot more people who have more shit than money to have someone else haul it away.

There isn't a country on earth that doesn't have a ruling class, and a much larger class of people with no power, or very little beyond a vote. More if they have a vote and a rifle. Then you have classes in between. People who either have more ambition, brains, or whatever else compels them to work harder and seek a better standard of living. There are all sorts of variables but the bottom line is, there always have been, and always will be different classes of people.

You don't know why, because you're convinced human beings, who you don't trust to run corporations fairly and not fuck people over, can be trusted with government authority to make a single class and distribute shit fairly.

We agree then. I understand perfectly well that there is, and always has been (since the development of organized trade), a ruling class. I also understand that many conservatives, if not most, will attempt to deny the existence of class struggle. They believe that with the advent of capitalism the idea of a ruling class disappeared. You know, because freedom...... Capitalism and freedom are inseparable in the minds of most conservatives. That denial has already manifested itself in this thread.

Where we disagree is in your assumption of my convictions. I understand why we have a ruling class and thus I have an understanding of how to eliminate it. I understand that the state is an integral part of the capitalist system of production and that its size and scope are directly linked with the development of capitalism. I do not expect the state to do anything other than perpetuate a class system and I place no trust in it.

Hmmmm...

OK, perhaps you aren't quite brain dead like most moonbats.

(That is a HUGE compliment BTW)

I don't know anyone who denies there is a conflict between rich/poor classes. I think the capitalist system is the only one which allows those of the poorest class to become part of the richest (although perhaps not RULING) class. The problem I have with the "class warfare" rhetoric is that it's always based on the idea that in order to get rich in the first place, a person has to be malevolent. The wealth they've accumulated is always somehow "ill gotten". The "poor" (we have the FATTEST "poor" people on earth) are always portrayed to be these malnourished down trodden people, struggling to find any work they can, to bring home a meager wage while the Monopoly Guy stands on their necks.

So sorry, I don't buy into the idea that everyone who has a significant amount of wealth is either stealing from their "poor" exploited working class victims or makes an effort to prevent the "poor" from achieving greater wealth. In my perspective class warfare is all about hate and envy. "It's not fair" is how class warriors begin every sentence and they're stupid. NOTHING is fair, it's not supposed to be fair, it never will be fair because "fair" is based on perspective.

I don't believe Trump is part of, is accepted in or even tolerated by the "ruling class" incidentally. I think they clearly do not want him undermining their ability to control political whores or reduce the power of the political whores who do their master's bidding. I don't want the ruling class "destroyed" however. I want them to have less influence over government for certain, and I want the government to have less power no matter who is pulling the strings in the parts of it we do not see or even likely know about.

The solution to "class warfare" is not to have any class dominate the other, nor take wealth from one and give it to another. We need to avoid doing things that stifle innovation and wealth accumulation. We even shut down little kid's lemonade stands because they don't spend the $75 for a permit from the Dept. of Health and have their "business" inspected.


.

 

[Lesh]

Awesome...sounds noble as fuck...but I call BULLSHIT!
Like the Mexicrat Party, you LefTards can’t give two shits about the middle class. You ignorant fools do nothing but “celebrate” wetbacks and the rest of the lowest one third, the filth of America. Every policy pushed and everything said by you lowlifes is aimed to support the lowest grade.
Further, I’ve never “worshiped” the rich but I’ve never hated them for kicking ass at life either.

Really.

And here I am supporting (along with my Dem colleagues)
a better healthcare system
Higher minimum wage
A path to citizenship for Dreamers (who have spent the bulk of their lives in this country doing everything that you an I ...middle class folks do...like serving in the military, going to college, owning homes, starting businesses
Strengthening Social Security
Unions Who are by definition middle class working men and women

And you oppose all of that.

You do of course support cutting spending on anything that helps middle class and poor folks...your fellow working folks

Oh yea and tax cuts for the rich (like the legislator that bought a yacht with HIS tax cut) while we get increases or pennies

Yea...right

 

[imawhosure]

Awesome...sounds noble as fuck...but I call BULLSHIT!
Like the Mexicrat Party, you LefTards can’t give two shits about the middle class. You ignorant fools do nothing but “celebrate” wetbacks and the rest of the lowest one third, the filth of America. Every policy pushed and everything said by you lowlifes is aimed to support the lowest grade.
Further, I’ve never “worshiped” the rich but I’ve never hated them for kicking ass at life either.

Really.

And here I am supporting (along with my Dem colleagues)
a better healthcare system
Higher minimum wage
A path to citizenship for Dreamers (who have spent the bulk of their lives in this country doing everything that you an I ...middle class folks do...like serving in the military, going to college, owning homes, starting businesses
Strengthening Social Security
Unions Who are by definition middle class working men and women

And you oppose all of that.

You do of course support cutting spending on anything that helps middle class and poor folks...your fellow working folks

Oh yea and tax cuts for the rich (like the legislator that bought a yacht with HIS tax cut) while we get increases or pennies

Yea...right

I call phony baloney, just like Obama-)

1. Better healthcare system? For who/whom? I am not going to raise hell over this one, I will just point you in the correct direction----------> Ya know that medicare for all plan your side is touting created by Bernie? Well look into it. You know how he does it for the ASTOUNDING, OUTRAGEOUS number of 32 trillion over 10 years? No? Well let me tell you the BIGGEST savings he used to get to that number, which would raise your taxes by over 30%, lol. What he does, is CUT payments to doctors and hospitals by 40%! Since there will be no private healthcare, his plan basically makes those in the medical profession, government employees; even if they don't want to be, and forced...…...let me repeat that for you...….FORCED to take a massive cut in pay, along with insuring, far less people will go into the medical field.

So what does that mean?

Yes, you will have insurance, but not enough medical professionals to service you, along with basically making medical people indentured servants. But that is no surprise coming from a radical like Bernie, and YOU!

Cutting spending for the middle class? Hey, the middle class pays all the taxes as a group, lol. The only reason someone in the actual middle class needs a handout from the government, is because the government taxes them to much, lolololol.

Now tell all of us, what program does the government do well. Name 1! And where do they get the money to screw up all these wonderful failed programs, from us!

Anyone that thinks the federal government is their salvation besides for defense, is a damn fool. Each and every time the private sector is allowed to compete with a government entity, the government entity looks like fools, and totally incompetent. Look at schools, look at the post office, even look at the defense department. What do you think, some genius in government created these defense systems, lol.

You are trying to fool us, because that is what fools do...……...try and bring down the people around them to their level. And what is their level? Incompetent, irrelevant, and immaterial, with no facts to bolster their arguments that their way is better; which is why you Leftists fail at elections more than you win now. People are on to you with the advent of the internet, and there is nowhere you can hide anymore.

 

[Wyatt earp]

So, Leftist/Democrats believe that corporations/company's are crooked, and out to screw people for the most part, while being out for only money/profit. Is this not true of their basic ideology? That is their big complaint about Capitalism.

So who runs these entities? Is it, A Martians? B reptiles, C Neptunians, or D human beings?

Now then, if you didn't pick D, then this thread is NOT for you, lol.

And so, with D being human beings, what is their solution? Is it, A put Martians in charge of government, or B put reptiles in charge of government, C put Neptunians in charge of government, or D put humans in charge of government and let them control everything?

So now, they want YOU to believe that human beings...…...the same human beings who THEY insist are out to screw you, they now want to give not only massive amounts of YOUR money...………...plus massive amounts of corporate money...………..plus something the CEOs and heads of company's do NOT have; MASSIVE AMOUNTS of POWER over everyone, and these saints are going to somehow save you, and not be corrupt, lolololololol.

Let us look at where these supposed saints are leading now----------> CHICAGO, hehehehehehe! In fact, this saint used to be chief of staff for Obysmal. How is that working out for the denizens of Chicago?

What about the saintly politicians of California? Why, everytime the people vote on referendum votes and they don't like it, they over turn the will of the people!

Lets look at these saints across the country, lolol. Why, our President was voted in LEGALLY by our system. Wasn't even close! But the saints can't have that, so they will do everything to over turn the election, Walmart smelly people be damned!

Sooooooooooooo, the question is simple-----------> Do YOU the voter control the states, and the federal government, or do they control you? Are these supposed saints, really saints; or rather, are they tyrants trying to take power out of your hands? Are they that smart, or are they that power hungry?

Do you really believe that the same kind of arrogant people who run corporations who took a different path and went into politics instead, should be trusted to control as much of your life as these Leftists want to control?

If you find 1 great person to do what the Left wants, he/she can only be elected twice. So, can you find the 2nd one to be so benevolent? NOT LIKELY you can even find the 1st!

Do you want people who beat the hell out of people they disagree with to be in charge? And do we all realize that the only way they can institute their ideas is to bankrupt the country faaaaaaaaar worse than it already is, or raise taxes so high, they will confiscate your wealth at the point of a gun?

Republicans SUCK! Leftists are 3 times worse. Their ideas suck so bad, all they have is to say Republicans suck, lol. (which is true, probably the only thing they have as truth, but I bet if they define themselves, they won't admit that they are 3 times worse)

We have a choice to make, and the Left wants you to give them power as they are saints. Do any of them remind you of Mother Theresa? Hell, do any of them remind you of JFK? Or rather, do they remind you of a bunch of people, trying to find an excuse, to tell you are were stupid, dumb, and a bunch of rubes, and they know better than you do, so they are just going to FORCE you to see it their way!

Are you a thinking person?

Do you not understand that the capitalist system of production creates a ruling class? And do you not understand the immense social power that the ruling class wields over the population?

Are you a thinking personn and doesn't realize Putin is probably the richest man in the world?


Pick your posion (like I have said for the 100th time we only really have two choices)


Rich private citizens

Or

Rich politicians


.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Awesome...sounds noble as fuck...but I call BULLSHIT!
Like the Mexicrat Party, you LefTards can’t give two shits about the middle class. You ignorant fools do nothing but “celebrate” wetbacks and the rest of the lowest one third, the filth of America. Every policy pushed and everything said by you lowlifes is aimed to support the lowest grade.
Further, I’ve never “worshiped” the rich but I’ve never hated them for kicking ass at life either.

Really.

And here I am supporting (along with my Dem colleagues)
a better healthcare system
Higher minimum wage
A path to citizenship for Dreamers (who have spent the bulk of their lives in this country doing everything that you an I ...middle class folks do...like serving in the military, going to college, owning homes, starting businesses
Strengthening Social Security
Unions Who are by definition middle class working men and women

And you oppose all of that.

You do of course support cutting spending on anything that helps middle class and poor folks...your fellow working folks

Oh yea and tax cuts for the rich (like the legislator that bought a yacht with HIS tax cut) while we get increases or pennies

Yea...right

A better health care system? Ok what is it...


A higher minimum wage? Why do you support trickle up poor?


Fuck the illegals follow the law and kick them all out and stand in line with the rest that want to come here legally.

American style Unions are dinosaur"s and most all continue to reject them , the year is 2018 we are not going back to 1950 , BTW I thought liberals hate tariffs now that help Union workers???




.

 

[francoHFW]

So, Leftist/Democrats believe that corporations/company's are crooked, and out to screw people for the most part, while being out for only money/profit. Is this not true of their basic ideology? That is their big complaint about Capitalism.

So who runs these entities? Is it, A Martians? B reptiles, C Neptunians, or D human beings?

Now then, if you didn't pick D, then this thread is NOT for you, lol.

And so, with D being human beings, what is their solution? Is it, A put Martians in charge of government, or B put reptiles in charge of government, C put Neptunians in charge of government, or D put humans in charge of government and let them control everything?

So now, they want YOU to believe that human beings...…...the same human beings who THEY insist are out to screw you, they now want to give not only massive amounts of YOUR money...………...plus massive amounts of corporate money...………..plus something the CEOs and heads of company's do NOT have; MASSIVE AMOUNTS of POWER over everyone, and these saints are going to somehow save you, and not be corrupt, lolololololol.

Let us look at where these supposed saints are leading now----------> CHICAGO, hehehehehehe! In fact, this saint used to be chief of staff for Obysmal. How is that working out for the denizens of Chicago?

What about the saintly politicians of California? Why, everytime the people vote on referendum votes and they don't like it, they over turn the will of the people!

Lets look at these saints across the country, lolol. Why, our President was voted in LEGALLY by our system. Wasn't even close! But the saints can't have that, so they will do everything to over turn the election, Walmart smelly people be damned!

Sooooooooooooo, the question is simple-----------> Do YOU the voter control the states, and the federal government, or do they control you? Are these supposed saints, really saints; or rather, are they tyrants trying to take power out of your hands? Are they that smart, or are they that power hungry?

Do you really believe that the same kind of arrogant people who run corporations who took a different path and went into politics instead, should be trusted to control as much of your life as these Leftists want to control?

If you find 1 great person to do what the Left wants, he/she can only be elected twice. So, can you find the 2nd one to be so benevolent? NOT LIKELY you can even find the 1st!

Do you want people who beat the hell out of people they disagree with to be in charge? And do we all realize that the only way they can institute their ideas is to bankrupt the country faaaaaaaaar worse than it already is, or raise taxes so high, they will confiscate your wealth at the point of a gun?

Republicans SUCK! Leftists are 3 times worse. Their ideas suck so bad, all they have is to say Republicans suck, lol. (which is true, probably the only thing they have as truth, but I bet if they define themselves, they won't admit that they are 3 times worse)

We have a choice to make, and the Left wants you to give them power as they are saints. Do any of them remind you of Mother Theresa? Hell, do any of them remind you of JFK? Or rather, do they remind you of a bunch of people, trying to find an excuse, to tell you are were stupid, dumb, and a bunch of rubes, and they know better than you do, so they are just going to FORCE you to see it their way!

Actually, hater dupe, Democrats just want them to pay to pay their Fair share in taxes along with the rich so we can stop the ruin of the non rich and the country. You people are brainwashed to the point of insanity.

 

[sparky]

Yet another question is asked, with premeditated answers

That's because partisans don't want to learn anything

~S~

 

[ptbw forever]

LefTards honestly believe that shit happens from the bottom up....they genuinely believe the guy pushing the broom at Microsoft built the PC empire.

You can worship the rich if you choose ( probably why you are a broke loser) but I choose to celebrate the working man and middle class

You hate the working man and the middle class.

That is who elected Trump, moron.

 

[ptbw forever]

You know, Tehon, you pretty much have everything in place to have your socialist form of government. Economicaly speaking, anyway.

The question, really, and Marx never had the answer, he never even offered an answer, so far as I've read, and I've read him rather thoroughly, is how you actually do the flip from one to the other.

What I mean is that Marx never really explained how the state would ''wither away'' after the ''dictatorship of the proletaria'' began. Really, he did nothing to stop Lenin from popping off about rationing liberty. Lenin's decree on liberty was rather clear. What he said was that liberty must be carefully rationed. Right?

The state will not wither away until civilization crashes.

 

[Windparadox]

`
Any kind of economic system produces a ruling class; capitalist, socialist, right or left and everything in-between. No government in the history of humankind has ever been truly benign. Humans are easily corrupted by power and economic gain. In the US, the democrats are equally as vile and corrupt as the republicans.
`

 

[Mac1958]

`Any kind of economic system produces a ruling class; capitalist, socialist, right or left and everything in-between. No government in the history of humankind has ever been truly benign. Humans are easily corrupted by power and economic gain. In the US, the democrats are equally as vile and corrupt as the republicans.`

.

 

[Tehon]

You know, Tehon, you pretty much have everything in place to have your socialist form of government. Economicaly speaking, anyway.

The question, really, and Marx never had the answer, he never even offered an answer, so far as I've read, and I've read him rather thoroughly, is how you actually do the flip from one to the other.

What I mean is that Marx never really explained how the state would ''wither away'' after the ''dictatorship of the proletaria'' began. Really, he did nothing to stop Lenin from popping off about rationing liberty. Lenin's decree on liberty was rather clear. What he said was that liberty must be carefully rationed. Right?

The state will not wither away until civilization crashes.

In all likelihood humans don't survive the epoch of capitalist production.

 

[ptbw forever]

You know, Tehon, you pretty much have everything in place to have your socialist form of government. Economicaly speaking, anyway.

The question, really, and Marx never had the answer, he never even offered an answer, so far as I've read, and I've read him rather thoroughly, is how you actually do the flip from one to the other.

What I mean is that Marx never really explained how the state would ''wither away'' after the ''dictatorship of the proletaria'' began. Really, he did nothing to stop Lenin from popping off about rationing liberty. Lenin's decree on liberty was rather clear. What he said was that liberty must be carefully rationed. Right?

The state will not wither away until civilization crashes.

In all likelihood humans don't survive the epoch of capitalist production.

Only if robots kill us off.

 

[Tehon]

You know, Tehon, you pretty much have everything in place to have your socialist form of government. Economicaly speaking, anyway.

The question, really, and Marx never had the answer, he never even offered an answer, so far as I've read, and I've read him rather thoroughly, is how you actually do the flip from one to the other.

What I mean is that Marx never really explained how the state would ''wither away'' after the ''dictatorship of the proletaria'' began. Really, he did nothing to stop Lenin from popping off about rationing liberty. Lenin's decree on liberty was rather clear. What he said was that liberty must be carefully rationed. Right?

The state will not wither away until civilization crashes.

In all likelihood humans don't survive the epoch of capitalist production.

Only if robots kill us off.

War or ecological destruction I would guess.