A simple economic lesson... raise capital gains to 43% will do what?

[Blues Man]

All the same your costs of living don't stop whatever it is.

Yeah OK

A married couple only needs to file separately and keep their AGI under a million each

Like I said it's an easy tax to avoid.

 

[pknopp]

Yeah OK

A married couple only needs to file separately and keep their AGI under a million each

Like I said it's an easy tax to avoid.

I have no idea what the actual law will look like (and neither do you) but none of it affects my argument. Income should be taxed as income, period.

 

[Blues Man]

I have no idea what the actual law will look like (and neither do you) but none of it affects my argument. Income should be taxed as income, period.

I highly doubt that it will pass and the proposal is a top rate of 43% so that's what I'm using.

You seem to think rich democrats will support this law, they won't and they will put pressure on the politicians in their pockets.

 

[pknopp]

I highly doubt that it will pass and the proposal is a top rate of 43% so that's what I'm using.

You seem to think rich democrats will support this law, they won't and they will put pressure on the politicians in their pockets.

Whether "rich Democrats" support the law or not, that has nothing to do with what I support.

 

[Rigby5]

If you have a need for more than $1 million you will still seek to acquire that. People are not going to change their lifestyle because of a few percentage more in taxes.

The problems of raising capital gains above the standard progressive rate is that the poor people will then lose much of their IRA saving, and that investors will take their money overseas where it is not tracked as well.

 

[jc456]

No.
If you can afford the tax consultants, there are more than enough loopholes so that you pay very little tax if you are wealthy.
The more money I made, the more loopholes I could afford, and the less taxes I paid.
One of the best is rental property investment.
You can use an accelerated depreciation schedule and write it almost all of in the first 5 years instead of the usual 25, and then you can switch properties with another landlord, and you can then do it all over again, every 5 years.

who gave you the right to say who makes what? And how to spend it?

you sure don't care welfare folks buy cigarettes and booze. too fking funny.

 

[Rigby5]

All taxes should be progressive and nothing should be a fixed rate unless we went with a flat tax for everything, with a large flat personal exemption.

 

[pknopp]

The problems of raising capital gains above the standard progressive rate is that the poor people will then lose much of their IRA saving, and that investors will take their money overseas where it is not tracked as well.

Poor people and "much of their IRA savings" is a bit of an oxymoron.

 

[jc456]

Whether "rich Democrats" support the law or not, that has nothing to do with what I support.

as you don't determine what we support.

 

[pknopp]

as you don't determine what we support.

You can support whatever you want.

 

[healthmyths]

Wrong.
The people getting these mortgages were paying them fine for years.
What happened is that they were adjustable rate mortgage, (ARM), based on the British LIBOR instead of the US prime lending rate.
So then when the economy crashed and US interest rates went down, the LIBOR went up, and the monthly mortgage payments suddenly nearly doubled.

It was not uncovered and corrected until 2012, but it was what caused much of the 2008 crash.

{...
The Libor scandal was a series of fraudulent actions connected to the Libor (London Inter-bank Offered Rate) and also the resulting investigation and reaction. Libor is an average interest rate calculated through submissions of interest rates by major banks across the world. The scandal arose when it was discovered that banks were falsely inflating or deflating their rates so as to profit from trades, or to give the impression that they were more creditworthy than they were.[3] Libor underpins approximately $350 trillion in derivatives. It is currently administered by Intercontinental Exchange, which took over running the Libor in January 2014.[4]

The banks are supposed to submit the actual interest rates they are paying, or would expect to pay, for borrowing from other banks. The Libor is supposed to be the total assessment of the health of the financial system because if the banks being polled feel confident about the state of things, they report a low number and if the member banks feel a low degree of confidence in the financial system, they report a higher interest rate number. In June 2012, multiple criminal settlements by Barclays Bank revealed significant fraud and collusion by member banks connected to the rate submissions, leading to the scandal.[5][6][7]

Because Libor is used in US derivatives markets, an attempt to manipulate Libor is an attempt to manipulate US derivatives markets, and thus a violation of American law. Since mortgages, student loans, financial derivatives, and other financial products often rely on Libor as a reference rate, the manipulation of submissions used to calculate those rates can have significant negative effects on consumers and financial markets worldwide.

On 27 July 2012, the Financial Times published an article by a former trader which stated that Libor manipulation had been common since at least 1991.[8] Further reports on this have since come from the BBC[9][10] and Reuters.[11] On 28 November 2012, the Finance Committee of the Bundestag held a hearing to learn more about the issue.[12]

The British Bankers' Association (BBA) said on 25 September 2012 that it would transfer oversight of Libor to UK regulators, as predicted by bank analysts,[13] proposed by Financial Services Authority managing director Martin Wheatley's independent review recommendations.[14] Wheatley's review recommended that banks submitting rates to Libor must base them on actual inter-bank deposit market transactions and keep records of those transactions, that individual banks' LIBOR submissions be published after three months, and recommended criminal sanctions specifically for manipulation of benchmark interest rates.[15] Financial institution customers may experience higher and more volatile borrowing and hedging costs after implementation of the recommended reforms.[16] The UK government agreed to accept all of the Wheatley Review's recommendations and press for legislation implementing them.[17]
...}

Libor scandal - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I agree 100% and more facts supporting the contention which was VERIFIED by Barney Frank!
For years, Frank was a staunch supporter of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the giant government housing agencies that played such an enormous role in the financial meltdown that thrust the economy into the Great Recession. But in a recent CNBC interview, Frank told me that he was ready to say goodbye to Fannie and Freddie.
"I hope by next year we'll have abolished Fannie and Freddie," he said. Remarkable. And he went on to say that "it was a great mistake to push lower-income people into housing they couldn't afford and couldn't really handle once they had it." He then added, "I had been too sanguine about Fannie and Freddie."

Barney Frank Comes Home to the Facts | RealClearPolitics

Can you teach an old dog new tricks? In politics, the answer is usually no. Most elected officials cling to their ideological biases, despite the real-world facts that disprove their theories time...

www.realclearpolitics.com

And the beginning of the crisis was in 1995.......
And it was a lawsuit brought by Obama in Chicago..

With landmark lawsuit, Barack Obama pushed banks to give subprime loans to Chicago’s African-Americans​

President Barack Obama was a pioneering contributor to the national subprime real estate bubble, and roughly half of the 186 African-American clients in his landmark 1995 mortgage discrimination lawsuit against Citibank have since gone bankrupt or received foreclosure notices

With landmark lawsuit, Barack Obama pushed banks to give subprime loans to Chicago’s African-Americans

President Barack Obama was a pioneering contributor to the national subprime real estate bubble.

dailycaller.com

 

[justinacolmena]

President Joe Biden is expected to raise long-term capital-gains tax for the wealthiest Americans to 43.4%, including a surtax. That would be higher than the top federal tax rate on wage income. How the Biden capital gains tax proposal would hit the wealthy

Dumbass is going to cause so much inflation that anybody with a wheelbarrow full of cash to buy a loaf of bread is considered extremely wealthy.

 

[jc456]

If you have a need for more than $1 million you will still seek to acquire that. People are not going to change their lifestyle because of a few percentage more in taxes.

see, there you go objecting to what someone else supports. you're a twat.

 

[jc456]

I agree 100% and more facts supporting the contention which was VERIFIED by Barney Frank!
For years, Frank was a staunch supporter of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the giant government housing agencies that played such an enormous role in the financial meltdown that thrust the economy into the Great Recession. But in a recent CNBC interview, Frank told me that he was ready to say goodbye to Fannie and Freddie.
"I hope by next year we'll have abolished Fannie and Freddie," he said. Remarkable. And he went on to say that "it was a great mistake to push lower-income people into housing they couldn't afford and couldn't really handle once they had it." He then added, "I had been too sanguine about Fannie and Freddie."

Barney Frank Comes Home to the Facts | RealClearPolitics

Can you teach an old dog new tricks? In politics, the answer is usually no. Most elected officials cling to their ideological biases, despite the real-world facts that disprove their theories time...

www.realclearpolitics.com

And the beginning of the crisis was in 1995.......
And it was a lawsuit brought by Obama in Chicago..

With landmark lawsuit, Barack Obama pushed banks to give subprime loans to Chicago’s African-Americans​

President Barack Obama was a pioneering contributor to the national subprime real estate bubble, and roughly half of the 186 African-American clients in his landmark 1995 mortgage discrimination lawsuit against Citibank have since gone bankrupt or received foreclosure notices

With landmark lawsuit, Barack Obama pushed banks to give subprime loans to Chicago’s African-Americans

President Barack Obama was a pioneering contributor to the national subprime real estate bubble.

dailycaller.com

here come all the deflections.

Demofks really think david copperfield made the Statue of Liberty disappear.

 

[Rigby5]

who gave you the right to say who makes what? And how to spend it?

you sure don't care welfare folks buy cigarettes and booze. too fking funny.

Your response has nothing to do with what I said.
I was responding to the question of whether or not a person making $400k a year was paying his fair share.
And I don't have to know how much he is paying, because I know how the more you make, the more you can afford loopholes, so the less you pay.
Those making $400k are not paying as much tax rate as a person making $50k a year.

How much you want to make or spend is not relevant to what I said.
I just said that as much as we try to pretend the tax rates are progressive, (meaning the rate you pay is proportional to wealth), the opposite is true.
The most wealthy pay the lowest rates.

 

[pknopp]

see, there you go objecting to what someone else supports. you're a twat.

Someone supports vastly altering their lifestyle because of paying more in taxes?

It's a hypothesis. Sure you can find random examples of anything. Lots of people will note how they know a millionaire that lives like he has very little but the exceptions do not make the rule.

 

[Rigby5]

Poor people and "much of their IRA savings" is a bit of an oxymoron.

Well I did not mean below poverty level, because then they would not likely have an IRA.
But everyone with a job should be trying to put money away in an IRA.
I found that if I put money into the IRA, it reduced my paycheck withholding by about the same amount as I was putting away.
That means I was essentially wealthier by the amount I put into my IRA.
The IRA did not cost me anything, and essentially was free money that came from tax exemptions.

But if the IRA suddenly got a huge rate increase, then not only would it be stealing my 401k from me, but it would end anyone ever putting money into a 401k ever again.

 

[pknopp]

Well I did not mean below poverty level, because then they would not likely have an IRA.
But everyone with a job should be trying to put money away in an IRA.
I found that if I put money into the IRA, it reduced my paycheck withholding by about the same amount as I was putting away.
That means I was essentially wealthier by the amount I put into my IRA.
The IRA did not cost me anything, and essentially was free money that came from tax exemptions.

But if the IRA suddenly got a huge rate increase, then not only would it be stealing my 401k from me, but it would end anyone ever putting money into a 401k ever again.

Right. If taxes are raised people will quit saving for retirement. (Roll eyes)

 

[gipper]

Well I did not mean below poverty level, because then they would not likely have an IRA.
But everyone with a job should be trying to put money away in an IRA.
I found that if I put money into the IRA, it reduced my paycheck withholding by about the same amount as I was putting away.
That means I was essentially wealthier by the amount I put into my IRA.
The IRA did not cost me anything, and essentially was free money that came from tax exemptions.

But if the IRA suddenly got a huge rate increase, then not only would it be stealing my 401k from me, but it would end anyone ever putting money into a 401k ever again.

I suspect every few working poor have an IRA. You say they should, but they likely can’t afford it.

 

[Rigby5]

Right. If taxes are raised people will quit saving for retirement. (Roll eyes)

Wrong.
And IRA is a way of having the savings taken out of your income before taxes.
If the IRA rate is higher than your normal income tax rate, no one will do that.
Instead they will find other ways to retire, like doing improvements on their home, so they can sell it for more when the kids are all off on their own.
The point being that money currently put into IRAs will not be available to investors like the stock exchange, (where IRAs currently are mostly invested).
The stock market will greatly shrink.