A socialist hell on earth

[Mac1958]

That's fine, but here's what actually happening: While conservatives are screaming "SOCIALISM! SOCIALISM! AAAAUUGGHHH!", liberals are making the case for it. And where are we now?

We've now reached a point where people are looking at government programs many conservatives would call "socialism" - Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and many others - and saying "oh, well, if that's socialism, then I must be for socialism". In other words, the Right has made it easier for the Left to make its case.

If the Right wants to win this argument, it should stop just screaming "SOCIALISM!" -- which is clearly no longer scaring people as it used to -- and make its case for an alternative, for a change. It may be too late for that, anyway.
.

Sorry Mac, gotta disagree with you on this one. The SOCIALIST model, DEMOCRATIC in front of it or not, will be put on trial to the American public if the nominee is Bernie. The Socialists on here can play patty-cake all they want now, but as soon as the commercials come out if Bernie is the victor on the Democratic side about what things cost over there, how much of their money they are left with after they are taxed to pay for the "free" stuff will bury him.

At this moment, nobody on the GOP side is attacking Sanders to much, because they like the idea he is making life miserable for Hillary. It is akin to the left talking nicely about Rubio and Kasich, as they claim they want Trump, but actually want him to go away because he has the "enthusiasm" thing going for him.

Let me put it this way--------------> I don't think Bernie has a chance against ANY of the GOP candidates once their sights are set on him. But....................if the GOP would actually lose to Bernie, then they can't beat any of the Democratic nominees, thus making it the Democrats or DNCs job to stop him in the primaries. Know what? That is not the GOPs job if SOCIALISM is a bad thing in both party's eyes. That means if it is the DNCs job cause the GOP can't win, I am off the hook because this election, I have little to do with the DNC, and so are you of the hook I think! What would you have me(most of us) do? Start supporting Hillary to stop Bernie, lol!

I don't for a moment think that Bernie wants to turn us into Cuba.

I do think, however, that he'd like to see us look like Germany or Norway.

Two different things.
.

I met an architect from Germany once, the state takes 70% of every dollar she makes, she lives in Government housing and doesn't have enough money left over to get anywhere in life she wasn't very happy.

She wasn't being honest. Even if 70% were the top German personal income tax marginal rate, which it is not (it's 45%), even with their VAT her effective tax rate would be far lower.
.

Germany's VAT is 19% goddamn percent, do the math.

I did.

45% + 19% = 64%.

Germany's personal income tax rates are progressive. Do you know how progressive income tax rates work? Even if you're in the top margin, you're paying lower rates in the lower margins. You're not paying a flat 45%. Just like here.
.

 

[Rustic]

 

[Edgetho]

Germany's VAT is 19% goddamn percent, do the math.

Don't forget the 41% Payroll Tax for Health Insurance and 'solidarity'

There comes a point when you can no longer believe that dimocrap scum are simply just fucking stupid.

They're lying scum

AND stupid

 

[Rustic]

 

[Edgetho]

I did.

45% + 19% = 64%.

Germany's personal income tax rates are progressive. Do you know how progressive income tax rates work? Even if you're in the top margin, you're paying lower rates in the lower margins. You're not paying a flat 45%. Just like here.
.

moron

 

[Oldstyle]

It is a Friday night in Venezuela. Five nights ago, the country imploded under the weight of its socialist policies. Riots, and the subsequent violence reigned and fires lit up the pre-dawn sky. The government backed paramilitary, National Police and National Guard set upon various cities across the country, snuffing out dissent, shooting at and in some cases murdering student protesters, carrying out brutal beatings, shooting tear gas into buildings and silencing other protests against its strict censorship of the media and speech wherever they saw it.

This is prime evidence that wherever socialism goes, it leaves death, destruction and chaos in its wake. What makes this even worse is that the world isn't paying any attention. With Syria and the conflict between Russia and The Ukraine dominating the headlines, the violence in Venezuela is being ignored.

(Yes, I'm looking at you, Bernie Sanders supporters)

Tonight, Venezuela is seeing a spasm of violence that’s unlike anything the country has experienced since 1989. Information is fragmented, since an almost complete media black-out is in place, but you don’t need the media to hear your neighbor’s screams.

Caracas, Valencia, Merida and San Cristobal in particular have become virtual war zones: National Guard units and National Police have been shooting tear gas canisters and buckshot sometimes directly at protesters, sometimes into residential buildings and, raiding any place they think student protesters may be hiding. Alongside them, the government backed colectivos (basically paramilitary gangs on motorbikes, a tropical basij) shoot at people with live ammo.

But of course, this is no war zone: in a war zone you have two sides shooting at each other. Tonight one side is doing all the shooting, the other side is [corrected for grammar] being shot at.

19F - The Night Venezuela Finally Imploded | Caracas Chronicles

It's amazing that you cannot see the difference in Bernie's Democratic Socialism, which is similar to countries like Norway and Sweden, versus the near dictatorships of Venezuela and similar countries. SMH

I'm curious, Auditor...in your mind does the tacking on of "Democratic" in front of something negate what follows? What Bernie Sanders is proposing is rather radical income redistribution. Calling it "Democratic Income Redistribution" might make it sound better but doesn't really change anything. I admire Sander's honesty...he's one of the few progressives who will flat out tell you that he's coming to take away your money...but that doesn't mean I think anything he's proposing is good for the United States.

 

[Mac1958]

I did.

45% + 19% = 64%.

Germany's personal income tax rates are progressive. Do you know how progressive income tax rates work? Even if you're in the top margin, you're paying lower rates in the lower margins. You're not paying a flat 45%. Just like here.
.

moron

Wow. Lots of personal insults and name-calling (I'm used to that here from both silly ends), but you still won't address my point.

What are conservatives doing, precisely, to offer a clear and inspirational alternative?

Name-calling, maybe?
.

 

[imawhosure]

Clearly the strategy for conservatives here is to deny that countries like Germany, France & Norway are democratic socialist countries. This way they can ignore the "democracy" part of "social democracy" and pretend that Sanders and the like want to turn America into Cuba.

Okay.

As I said, it's not working. People are no longer afraid of the word, because the Left has shown them that we already have "socialist" elements right here in America, and they're perfectly okay with that.

I guess screaming "SOCIALISM!! AAAUUGGHHHH!" is easier than creating and communicating a clear and inspirational alternative to America.

Good luck with that!
.

Clearly the strategy for conservatives here is to deny that countries like Germany, France & Norway are democratic socialist countries. This way they can ignore the "democracy" part of "social democracy" and pretend that Sanders and the like want to turn America into Cuba.

Okay.

As I said, it's not working. People are no longer afraid of the word, because the Left has shown them that we already have "socialist" elements right here in America, and they're perfectly okay with that.

I guess screaming "SOCIALISM!! AAAUUGGHHHH!" is easier than creating and communicating a clear and inspirational alternative to America.

Good luck with that!
.

The media and the elites are ginning up this dislike of Bernie, I suspect to take the heat off Cankles.

If anyone here prefers her over him, they need their head examined.

Every type of government has failed in Venezuela...

There are different levels of failure.

You know that -- Or you should by now

There is no money fairy people! Socialism is about government taking MORE of your assets and distributing them for the good of the people, instead of YOU distributing them for your own good.

That is a wonderful idea for people who have no assets, but what about those who worked and do?

In what I consider a previous life now, I worked for a union auto company. People complained vociferously about what we made. We were over paid they insisted. No we weren't, we made a very tidy profit for the auto company..............when we worked. But when we didn't, we were a huge drag on the company, because of the SOCIALIST union payouts that were created to keep everyone in the fold. Our biggest drag on our profitability when we worked, were those who did NOT and played the system.

Socialism sucks, because it hurts people from being all they can be, FOR the people, who don't want to do anything they don't have to. If you don't like Washington DC dictating to you what to do, when to do it, and how much of it to accomplish, SOCIALISM...........with or without DEMOCRATIC in front of it, is NOT for you!

If SOCIALISM is so wonderful, why didn't these countries become the powerhouse we were? ANSWER---------> because it holds down the individuals who create all of these things you enjoy, and instead, put the spotlight upon collectivism for the welfare of all.

ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS ON WHO DID IT, Democratic socialists, Socialists, Marxists, or the good ole CAPITALISTIC United States of America.........

1. Put man on the moon?

2. Created the atomic bomb and nuclear energy?

3. Created the greatest economy in the world?

4. Discovered how to eradicate most all of the diseases that we have?

5. Mass produce autos?

6. Created air travel?

7. Farming on a grand scale, enough to feed the world if necessary?

And the list goes on, and on, and on. Why was it here, and not there? They were certainly into the sciences loooooong before our country was even thought of.

I know why, and unless you are dumb, you know why! Innovation does NOT come from government, it comes from the individual who has an idea, and pursues it............more than likely, for profit.

And all of those people and their family's that brought you these innovations you now take for granted? You HATE THEM! Why? Because they innovated, offered their innovation to you for sale, and you PURCHASED it; not at the point of a gun, but because you wanted the product.

You USEFUL IDIOTS are pathetic, you really are. You ignore how far above every other country we were until we started your WONDERFUL leftward march, and now that we have started coming back to the pack, your solution is MORE LEFTISM.

If anyone believes their nonsense, then you deserve what you get. If your job leaves town for greener tax havens, to bad, to sad; call Bernie! You leftists are afraid of your own shadows, you really are. You don't believe that if you are allowed to be all you can be, you will amount to ANYTHING. The Presidencies of GW and Obama have you believing it is over. NO IT ISN'T! All you have to do is elect someone who will free you from government interference to make Europe look like fools!

You have the best food sources, the most energy resources, the most intellectual resources, the most modern (overall) technology resources, the most open land to build on that has all of these resources; and yet, you want to claim you are lost?!?!?!?!

Lost is not the word to use their folks, DUMB, IGNORANT, INCOMPETENT, or BRAINWASHED..........those are the correct words.

 

[BluesLegend]

Sorry Mac, gotta disagree with you on this one. The SOCIALIST model, DEMOCRATIC in front of it or not, will be put on trial to the American public if the nominee is Bernie. The Socialists on here can play patty-cake all they want now, but as soon as the commercials come out if Bernie is the victor on the Democratic side about what things cost over there, how much of their money they are left with after they are taxed to pay for the "free" stuff will bury him.

At this moment, nobody on the GOP side is attacking Sanders to much, because they like the idea he is making life miserable for Hillary. It is akin to the left talking nicely about Rubio and Kasich, as they claim they want Trump, but actually want him to go away because he has the "enthusiasm" thing going for him.

Let me put it this way--------------> I don't think Bernie has a chance against ANY of the GOP candidates once their sights are set on him. But....................if the GOP would actually lose to Bernie, then they can't beat any of the Democratic nominees, thus making it the Democrats or DNCs job to stop him in the primaries. Know what? That is not the GOPs job if SOCIALISM is a bad thing in both party's eyes. That means if it is the DNCs job cause the GOP can't win, I am off the hook because this election, I have little to do with the DNC, and so are you of the hook I think! What would you have me(most of us) do? Start supporting Hillary to stop Bernie, lol!

I don't for a moment think that Bernie wants to turn us into Cuba.

I do think, however, that he'd like to see us look like Germany or Norway.

Two different things.
.

I met an architect from Germany once, the state takes 70% of every dollar she makes, she lives in Government housing and doesn't have enough money left over to get anywhere in life she wasn't very happy.

She wasn't being honest. Even if 70% were the top German personal income tax marginal rate, which it is not (it's 45%), even with their VAT her effective tax rate would be far lower.
.

Germany's VAT is 19% goddamn percent, do the math.

I did.

45% + 19% = 64%.

Germany's personal income tax rates are progressive. Do you know how progressive income tax rates work? Even if you're in the top margin, you're paying lower rates in the lower margins. You're not paying a flat 45%. Just like here.
.

Its not rocket science, she lives and works in Germany you don't hence she knows what's she's talking about and you don't.

 

[Mac1958]

I don't for a moment think that Bernie wants to turn us into Cuba.

I do think, however, that he'd like to see us look like Germany or Norway.

Two different things.
.

I met an architect from Germany once, the state takes 70% of every dollar she makes, she lives in Government housing and doesn't have enough money left over to get anywhere in life she wasn't very happy.

She wasn't being honest. Even if 70% were the top German personal income tax marginal rate, which it is not (it's 45%), even with their VAT her effective tax rate would be far lower.
.

Germany's VAT is 19% goddamn percent, do the math.

I did.

45% + 19% = 64%.

Germany's personal income tax rates are progressive. Do you know how progressive income tax rates work? Even if you're in the top margin, you're paying lower rates in the lower margins. You're not paying a flat 45%. Just like here.
.

Its not rocket science, she lives and works in Germany you don't hence she knows what's she's talking about and you don't.

Okie dokie.

So tell me, what are conservatives going to do to present a clear and positive alternative?

Precisely?
.

 

[Rustic]

It is a Friday night in Venezuela. Five nights ago, the country imploded under the weight of its socialist policies. Riots, and the subsequent violence reigned and fires lit up the pre-dawn sky. The government backed paramilitary, National Police and National Guard set upon various cities across the country, snuffing out dissent, shooting at and in some cases murdering student protesters, carrying out brutal beatings, shooting tear gas into buildings and silencing other protests against its strict censorship of the media and speech wherever they saw it.

This is prime evidence that wherever socialism goes, it leaves death, destruction and chaos in its wake. What makes this even worse is that the world isn't paying any attention. With Syria and the conflict between Russia and The Ukraine dominating the headlines, the violence in Venezuela is being ignored.

(Yes, I'm looking at you, Bernie Sanders supporters)

Tonight, Venezuela is seeing a spasm of violence that’s unlike anything the country has experienced since 1989. Information is fragmented, since an almost complete media black-out is in place, but you don’t need the media to hear your neighbor’s screams.

Caracas, Valencia, Merida and San Cristobal in particular have become virtual war zones: National Guard units and National Police have been shooting tear gas canisters and buckshot sometimes directly at protesters, sometimes into residential buildings and, raiding any place they think student protesters may be hiding. Alongside them, the government backed colectivos (basically paramilitary gangs on motorbikes, a tropical basij) shoot at people with live ammo.

But of course, this is no war zone: in a war zone you have two sides shooting at each other. Tonight one side is doing all the shooting, the other side is [corrected for grammar] being shot at.

19F - The Night Venezuela Finally Imploded | Caracas Chronicles

It's amazing that you cannot see the difference in Bernie's Democratic Socialism, which is similar to countries like Norway and Sweden, versus the near dictatorships of Venezuela and similar countries. SMH

I'm curious, Auditor...in your mind does the tacking on of "Democratic" in front of something negate what follows? What Bernie Sanders is proposing is rather radical income redistribution. Calling it "Democratic Income Redistribution" might make it sound better but doesn't really change anything. I admire Sander's honesty...he's one of the few progressives who will flat out tell you that he's coming to take away your money...but that doesn't mean I think anything he's proposing is good for the United States.

I get it, some people really want to be part of a socialist state. The sad thing is those socialists want everyone in the socialist state.
Millions of a Americans want no part of the socialist state, it would make their life a living hell. The point is, progressives/socialists are absolute control freaks...
Why are they not satisfied to form their own "village"(you know they are always saying "it takes a village") and leave it at that... Most Americans want no part of their shitty village.

Individuals have no place in a socialist village, its an death sentence...

 

[Mac1958]

Germany's VAT is 19% goddamn percent, do the math.

Don't forget the 41% Payroll Tax for Health Insurance and 'solidarity'

There comes a point when you can no longer believe that dimocrap scum are simply just fucking stupid.

They're lying scum

AND stupid

Hey, wait, this is pretty amazing.

So they're paying 45% plus 41% plus 19%?

Holy crap, that's 105%!!

What, do they write the government a check every month?
.

 

[Edgetho]

What are conservatives doing, precisely, to offer a clear and inspirational alternative?


.

Keeping dishonest morons like you out of power is a hell of a good start.

Germany's average Personal Taxation Rate really is at or near 70%.

First you lied about that. Then you back-pedaled on forgetting the VAT, then you lied by omitting the Solidarity, Health, Unemployment and Retirement Taxes.

You're just a liar. You make shit up as you go along then lie to cover your stupidity when you're proven wrong.

The question should be (but you're too stupid to understand this), "Is Germany's high Tax Rate worth it?"

THAT is a conversation worth having.

But nope. You gotta lie and evade.

It's almost like you're trying to hide something.

And I'm not calling you 'names'

Those are simple observations

 

[Mac1958]

What are conservatives doing, precisely, to offer a clear and inspirational alternative?


.

Keeping dishonest morons like you out of power is a hell of a good start.

Germany's average Personal Taxation Rate really is at or near 70%.

First you lied about that. Then you back-pedaled on forgetting the VAT, then you lied by omitting the Solidarity, Health, Unemployment and Retirement Taxes.

You're just a liar. You make shit up as you go along then lie to cover your stupidity when you're proven wrong.

The question should be (but you're too stupid to understand this), "Is Germany's high Tax Rate worth it?"

THAT is a conversation worth having.

But nope. You gotta lie and evade.

It's almost like you're trying to hide something.

And I'm not calling you 'names'

Those are simple observations

Still not answering my question.
.

 

[Edgetho]

Hey, wait, this is pretty amazing.

So they're paying 45% plus 41% plus 19%?

Holy crap, that's 105%!!

What, do they write the government a check every month?
.

Stupid bitch.....

45% of 100 leaves 55.

Then 41% of 55 leaves (app) 30%

Then 19% of 30% leaves 25.

And that's about right. The average German ends up with about 25% of what he or she earns.

Are you really that stupid?

I think so

 

[Edgetho]

Still not answering my question.
.

Go hump somebody else's leg. You're too stupid to have a conversation with.

And too dishonest

 

[Mac1958]

Hey, wait, this is pretty amazing.

So they're paying 45% plus 41% plus 19%?

Holy crap, that's 105%!!

What, do they write the government a check every month?
.

Stupid bitch.....

45% of 100 leaves 55.

Then 41% of 55 leaves (app) 30%

Then 19% of 30% leaves 25.

And that's about right. The average German ends up with about 25% of what he or she earns.

Are you really that stupid?

I think so

So the average German pays 100% of the top marginal rate.

This is great stuff, it was never covered on my CFP/ChFC exams.

Thank you!


.

 

[Mac1958]

Still not answering my question.
.

Go hump somebody else's leg. You're too stupid to have a conversation with.

And too dishonest

That's okay, I ever expect partisan ideologues from either end to actually answer my direct questions.
.

 

[imawhosure]

What are conservatives doing, precisely, to offer a clear and inspirational alternative?


.

Keeping dishonest morons like you out of power is a hell of a good start.

Germany's average Personal Taxation Rate really is at or near 70%.

First you lied about that. Then you back-pedaled on forgetting the VAT, then you lied by omitting the Solidarity, Health, Unemployment and Retirement Taxes.

You're just a liar. You make shit up as you go along then lie to cover your stupidity when you're proven wrong.

The question should be (but you're too stupid to understand this), "Is Germany's high Tax Rate worth it?"

THAT is a conversation worth having.

But nope. You gotta lie and evade.

It's almost like you're trying to hide something.

And I'm not calling you 'names'

Those are simple observations

Still not answering my question.
.

I will answer that question Mac, and will make it as precise as I can------------->

Who will stand against Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, and Reagan? Was their success created through DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM, or rather CAPITALISM? Was it a better time for America.......was it MORNING IN AMERICA across how many Presidents?

If you can't imagine commercials running pointing those things out, then you don't know what COULD be in the works-)


I rest my case, and good luck with Bernie!

 

[Iceweasel]

What are conservatives doing, precisely, to offer a clear and inspirational alternative?

What they've been saying all along. More freedom, less taxes, smaller government, less spending. Sorry if you don't find that inspirational but I damn sure do!