A socialist hell on earth

[NightFox]

It all exists on a continuum.

Pure socialism is clearly to the left of democratic socialism.
.

Uh-huh and if you dilute cyanide with kool-aid it'll still kill ya, just not as fast.

All brands of socialism are just different flavors of collectivist authoritarianism whereby the individual is expected to surrender his/her liberty to the will of the state and it always leads to bad outcomes... just ask the Scandinavian Countries that Bernie and his brainless lemming followers like to point to, they nearly destroyed the prosperous economies that free market policies built with their flirtations with "democratic socialism" and have had to perform a hasty retreat in the last decade to save themselves from economic decline.

It all exists on a continuum.

As we all know, we have "socialist" elements right here in the good 'ol USA.
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Do believe that in any way, shape or form justifies the fundamental immorality of socialism? There is no "continuum" it's death by socialism at varying speeds..... one brand kills the host nation slowly while another destroys the host nation rapidly, there is no difference in the ultimate outcome; oppression, deprivation and economic slavery to the state.

 

[Edgetho]

Just stop, all of you, with your use of the words 'socialist and socialism'. You have no idea what the FUCK you're talking about.

Ah, well it's certainly nice to know that we have you here to enlighten us.

Please, then, give us The Definition of Socialism.
.

I already did.

There is none. Because it has never worked. You can't define something that doesn't exist.

If a socialist Country ever survives long enough, we might be able to define what it is and what it isn't.

Meanwhile, we're left with College Sophomore theses on what it should be. 'Pure' socialism, 'democratic' socialism, etc, etc ad nauseam.

Here's a primer for you. It's at about a High School level so it should be easy for you to go through quickly and THOROUGHLY.

Types of socialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Once you get through that, you can read Draper's Two Sous.

Hal Draper: The Two Souls of Socialism (1966)

Or, you can start with Draper if you want to.

Once you have a basic understanding, then I recommend you delve into socialism's history, which began during the French Revolution.

The Great French Revolution 1789–1793 | The Anarchist Library

And yes, I've read them all.

I've forgotten more about socialism and socialists than anybody in here. By a wide margin.

If you won't listen, you can't learn.

Which, I doubt learning is what you're interested in.

4serial

 

[Mac1958]

Clearly the strategy for conservatives here is to deny that countries like Germany, France & Norway are democratic socialist countries. This way they can ignore the "democracy" part of "social democracy" and pretend that Sanders and the like want to turn America into Cuba.

Okay.

As I said, it's not working. People are no longer afraid of the word, because the Left has shown them that we already have "socialist" elements right here in America, and they're perfectly okay with that.

I guess screaming "SOCIALISM!! AAAUUGGHHHH!" is easier than creating and communicating a clear and inspirational alternative to America.

Good luck with that!
.

 

[Moonglow]

It is a Friday night in Venezuela. Five nights ago, the country imploded under the weight of its socialist policies. Riots, and the subsequent violence reigned and fires lit up the pre-dawn sky. The government backed paramilitary, National Police and National Guard set upon various cities across the country, snuffing out dissent, shooting at and in some cases murdering student protesters, carrying out brutal beatings, shooting tear gas into buildings and silencing other protests against its strict censorship of the media and speech wherever they saw it.

This is prime evidence that wherever socialism goes, it leaves death, destruction and chaos in its wake. What makes this even worse is that the world isn't paying any attention. With Syria and the conflict between Russia and The Ukraine dominating the headlines, the violence in Venezuela is being ignored.

(Yes, I'm looking at you, Bernie Sanders supporters)

Tonight, Venezuela is seeing a spasm of violence that’s unlike anything the country has experienced since 1989. Information is fragmented, since an almost complete media black-out is in place, but you don’t need the media to hear your neighbor’s screams.

Caracas, Valencia, Merida and San Cristobal in particular have become virtual war zones: National Guard units and National Police have been shooting tear gas canisters and buckshot sometimes directly at protesters, sometimes into residential buildings and, raiding any place they think student protesters may be hiding. Alongside them, the government backed colectivos (basically paramilitary gangs on motorbikes, a tropical basij) shoot at people with live ammo.

But of course, this is no war zone: in a war zone you have two sides shooting at each other. Tonight one side is doing all the shooting, the other side is [corrected for grammar] being shot at.

19F - The Night Venezuela Finally Imploded | Caracas Chronicles

Every type of government has failed in Venezuela...

 

[gipper]

Clearly the strategy for conservatives here is to deny that countries like Germany, France & Norway are democratic socialist countries. This way they can ignore the "democracy" part of "social democracy" and pretend that Sanders and the like want to turn America into Cuba.

Okay.

As I said, it's not working. People are no longer afraid of the word, because the Left has shown them that we already have "socialist" elements right here in America, and they're perfectly okay with that.

I guess screaming "SOCIALISM!! AAAUUGGHHHH!" is easier than creating and communicating a clear and inspirational alternative to America.

Good luck with that!
.

The media and the elites are ginning up this dislike of Bernie, I suspect to take the heat off Cankles.

If anyone here prefers her over him, they need their head examined.

 

[Manchester]

Just stop, all of you, with your use of the words 'socialist and socialism'

You have no idea what the FUCK you're talking about.

Irony that might break the internet.

 

[Edgetho]

Every type of government has failed in Venezuela...

There are different levels of failure.

You know that -- Or you should by now

 

[Moonglow]

Every type of government has failed in Venezuela...

There are different levels of failure.

You know that -- Or you should by now

 

[SmokeALib]

Clearly the strategy for conservatives here is to deny that countries like Germany, France & Norway are democratic socialist countries. This way they can ignore the "democracy" part of "social democracy" and pretend that Sanders and the like want to turn America into Cuba.

Okay.

As I said, it's not working. People are no longer afraid of the word, because the Left has shown them that we already have "socialist" elements right here in America, and they're perfectly okay with that.

I guess screaming "SOCIALISM!! AAAUUGGHHHH!" is easier than creating and communicating a clear and inspirational alternative to America.

Good luck with that!
.

The media and the elites are ginning up this dislike of Bernie, I suspect to take the heat off Cankles.

If anyone here prefers her over him, they need their head examined.

If anyone prefers either one of these incompetent boobs, well, I won't say it.

 

[Manchester]

I did, because it was. There was no falsehood about it. Batista was known for his torture and public executions.

And the Castro boys are an improvement?

moron

I'm not saying they're better or worse, if you were capable of following a dialogue without hurling insults around you'd see that all I am saying is that Cuba is no worse off under the the government that it has than the one it had. I'm sure there have been human rights abuses in the last 60 years just like there were under the mafia controlled days prior to the revolution.

And as for any decline in Cuban economy, I'd wager if you ask any economic expert who has looked at it and he will point to American sanctions as the single biggest contributing factor.

 

[Iceweasel]

Your school board is democratic and runs a socialist institution.

I think the union calls most of the shots. Nice try.

 

[Rustic]

 

[kaz]

Yep and Capitalism = Slavery to money.

No more than breathing is "slavery" to oxygen. Capitalism is economic freedom. Money is just the denomination you work in. Customers, businesses, employers, employees, all make their own best decision. As shitty a decision people often make for themselves, empowering people to make decisions for others is inevitably worse

Hey, don't let these people redefine SOCIALISM to make it more palatable by putting DEMOCRATIC in front of it.

If they want to define a country as DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST, then,

1. Show us where the government says that is what they are.

2. After they prove that they are, then lets start comparing what they live in, what they drive, and the price of their goods with the United States.

3. Then lets see what their tax rates are.

These people insisting it is peaches and cream are either naive, or know better and are trying to deceive. Who wants their family living in 800sq feet? Anyone?

That's fine, but here's what actually happening: While conservatives are screaming "SOCIALISM! SOCIALISM! AAAAUUGGHHH!", liberals are making the case for it. And where are we now?

We've now reached a point where people are looking at government programs many conservatives would call "socialism" - Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and many others - and saying "oh, well, if that's socialism, then I must be for socialism". In other words, the Right has made it easier for the Left to make its case.

If the Right wants to win this argument, it should stop just screaming "SOCIALISM!" -- which is clearly no longer scaring people as it used to -- and make its case for an alternative, for a change. It may be too late for that, anyway.
.

Sorry Mac, gotta disagree with you on this one. The SOCIALIST model, DEMOCRATIC in front of it or not, will be put on trial to the American public if the nominee is Bernie. The Socialists on here can play patty-cake all they want now, but as soon as the commercials come out if Bernie is the victor on the Democratic side about what things cost over there, how much of their money they are left with after they are taxed to pay for the "free" stuff will bury him.

At this moment, nobody on the GOP side is attacking Sanders to much, because they like the idea he is making life miserable for Hillary. It is akin to the left talking nicely about Rubio and Kasich, as they claim they want Trump, but actually want him to go away because he has the "enthusiasm" thing going for him.

Let me put it this way--------------> I don't think Bernie has a chance against ANY of the GOP candidates once their sights are set on him. But....................if the GOP would actually lose to Bernie, then they can't beat any of the Democratic nominees, thus making it the Democrats or DNCs job to stop him in the primaries. Know what? That is not the GOPs job if SOCIALISM is a bad thing in both party's eyes. That means if it is the DNCs job cause the GOP can't win, I am off the hook because this election, I have little to do with the DNC, and so are you of the hook I think! What would you have me(most of us) do? Start supporting Hillary to stop Bernie, lol!

I don't for a moment think that Bernie wants to turn us into Cuba.

I do think, however, that he'd like to see us look like Germany or Norway.

Two different things.
.

There's a difference between:

Is Bernie advocating turning us into Cuba now

And

When would Bernie stop moving left so that we don't become Cuba

The first may be true, but the answer to the second is never. That's generally what Democrats do. They have far more than 50s or 60s Democrats could have imagined. Yet they are more hysterical they have nothing then they did back then

 

[SmokeALib]

Yes, it demonstrates why you think like you do. You're wrong. Germany is a Republic, the Federal Republic of Germany. Like us people vote in representatives. They do not vote for the programs they want by way of consensus. If they did then you might make the case that they are a socialist democracy. But they don't because the terms are mutually exclusive. In a socialist democracy people could vote for free gasoline.

Great. I get bored by semantics pretty quickly.

Back to my original point: If you think that just screaming "SOCIALIST!" is working for you, as opposed to clearly articulating an attractive alternative, keep going.
.

I pointed out how stupid you are. You don't understand words so when people discuss things you get lost and try to dismiss it as semantics.

Okay.

Keep screaming "SOCIALIST!!! AAAUUUUGGGHHH!"
.

You saw screaming when I pointed out that there's nothing democratic about socialism.

Your school board is democratic and runs a socialist institution.

You make that sound like that's a good thing....

 

[Rustic]

 

[NYcarbineer]

No more than breathing is "slavery" to oxygen. Capitalism is economic freedom. Money is just the denomination you work in. Customers, businesses, employers, employees, all make their own best decision. As shitty a decision people often make for themselves, empowering people to make decisions for others is inevitably worse

Hey, don't let these people redefine SOCIALISM to make it more palatable by putting DEMOCRATIC in front of it.

If they want to define a country as DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST, then,

1. Show us where the government says that is what they are.

2. After they prove that they are, then lets start comparing what they live in, what they drive, and the price of their goods with the United States.

3. Then lets see what their tax rates are.

These people insisting it is peaches and cream are either naive, or know better and are trying to deceive. Who wants their family living in 800sq feet? Anyone?

That's fine, but here's what actually happening: While conservatives are screaming "SOCIALISM! SOCIALISM! AAAAUUGGHHH!", liberals are making the case for it. And where are we now?

We've now reached a point where people are looking at government programs many conservatives would call "socialism" - Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and many others - and saying "oh, well, if that's socialism, then I must be for socialism". In other words, the Right has made it easier for the Left to make its case.

If the Right wants to win this argument, it should stop just screaming "SOCIALISM!" -- which is clearly no longer scaring people as it used to -- and make its case for an alternative, for a change. It may be too late for that, anyway.
.

Sorry Mac, gotta disagree with you on this one. The SOCIALIST model, DEMOCRATIC in front of it or not, will be put on trial to the American public if the nominee is Bernie. The Socialists on here can play patty-cake all they want now, but as soon as the commercials come out if Bernie is the victor on the Democratic side about what things cost over there, how much of their money they are left with after they are taxed to pay for the "free" stuff will bury him.

At this moment, nobody on the GOP side is attacking Sanders to much, because they like the idea he is making life miserable for Hillary. It is akin to the left talking nicely about Rubio and Kasich, as they claim they want Trump, but actually want him to go away because he has the "enthusiasm" thing going for him.

Let me put it this way--------------> I don't think Bernie has a chance against ANY of the GOP candidates once their sights are set on him. But....................if the GOP would actually lose to Bernie, then they can't beat any of the Democratic nominees, thus making it the Democrats or DNCs job to stop him in the primaries. Know what? That is not the GOPs job if SOCIALISM is a bad thing in both party's eyes. That means if it is the DNCs job cause the GOP can't win, I am off the hook because this election, I have little to do with the DNC, and so are you of the hook I think! What would you have me(most of us) do? Start supporting Hillary to stop Bernie, lol!

I don't for a moment think that Bernie wants to turn us into Cuba.

I do think, however, that he'd like to see us look like Germany or Norway.

Two different things.
.

There's a difference between:

Is Bernie advocating turning us into Cuba now

And

When would Bernie stop moving left so that we don't become Cuba

The first may be true, but the answer to the second is never. That's generally what Democrats do. They have far more than 50s or 60s Democrats could have imagined. Yet they are more hysterical they have nothing then they did back then

We're turning into Cuba because Sanders wants free tuition for some college students?

lol, talk about hysteria.

 

[Rustic]

 

[NYcarbineer]

So was Reagan then.

 

[saveliberty]

You are correct, socialism is socialism and socialism aint what Uncle Bernie is selling

Really? You should really have a talk with Bernie then.

 

[Rustic]