A socialist hell on earth

[Manchester]

I don't for a moment think that Bernie wants to turn us into Cuba.

I do think, however, that he'd like to see us look like Germany or Norway.

Two different things.
.

socialists are scum

The ONLY reason Western Europe hasn't turned into another socialist Gulag is the United States.

We'd kick their asses if they tried.

socialists are scum. Totalitarian scum. Period.

They MUST use force to make their plans work. It's the only way they know of.

Whether they use 'soft' power or hard power contingent on what forces they have at hand.

You give socialist SCUM complete power over the Military and the Police and they WILL use it.

Every time.

Every place.

Without fail

Under educated, hate filled bile. Without even the slightest footing in reality.

 

[Mac1958]

It all exists on a continuum.

Pure socialism is clearly to the left of democratic socialism.
.

What is pure socialism and what is democratic about socialism?

For the sake of this discussion, I'd say Cuba is pure socialism. Central ownership of production and distribution.

"Democratic" means, essentially, that people vote for their leaders in free and fair elections. Like, maybe, Germany.

Did I really have to say this?
.

Yes, it demonstrates why you think like you do. You're wrong. Germany is a Republic, the Federal Republic of Germany. Like us people vote in representatives. They do not vote for the programs they want by way of consensus. If they did then you might make the case that they are a socialist democracy. But they don't because the terms are mutually exclusive. In a socialist democracy people could vote for free gasoline.

Great. I get bored by semantics pretty quickly.

Back to my original point: If you think that just screaming "SOCIALIST!" is working for you, as opposed to clearly articulating an attractive alternative, keep going.
.

I pointed out how stupid you are. You don't understand words so when people discuss things you get lost and try to dismiss it as semantics.

Okay.

Keep screaming "SOCIALIST!!! AAAUUUUGGGHHH!"
.

 

[gipper]

Socialism has a way of turning countries into third world counteries

I disagree. Have you got any examples?

A better reply would be socialism has a way of holding countries back and keeping them 3rd world countries, you can point to a handful of countries that leftist governments have stimed their progress. I can't think of one that has regressed because of it

Cuba, Greece, Venezuela

Cuba and Venezuela were third world shit holes before socialism went anywhere near them and Greece?

Greece was screwed by their cooking the books to get in to the Euro. With the assistance of capitalist Wall Street stalwarts Golman Sachs and Morgan Stanley and when the Centre/Conservative ND were in power. To point to the current leftist mob in charge for the fallout of the Maastrict treaty is like blaming Barrack Obama for Reganomics.

So thats still not one example.

Wrong. Cuba BEFORE Castro had one of the best economies in the world. It had a higher per capita GDP than the USA and immigrants around the world considered it the top nation to go to.

No, It had a a corrupt ruling elite who were so vastly wealthier than it's people that the numbers for everyone were driven up hugely. Add to that the American mafia using it as a safe haven and its very little wonder that the people rose up and overthrew those in charge. It's a shame that those in charge curtail their peoples freedoms now, although having been there myself and seen first hand how things are Cuba isn't that bad a place to be. The people may complain at the lack of freedoms from time to time but they are all well educated and if they get sick they get a doctor. They're more free than the dirt poor in the US.

You stated Cuba was a shithole before Castro. Nothing could be more incorrect. Please do not post falsehoods.

 

[Iceweasel]

What is pure socialism and what is democratic about socialism?

For the sake of this discussion, I'd say Cuba is pure socialism. Central ownership of production and distribution.

"Democratic" means, essentially, that people vote for their leaders in free and fair elections. Like, maybe, Germany.

Did I really have to say this?
.

Yes, it demonstrates why you think like you do. You're wrong. Germany is a Republic, the Federal Republic of Germany. Like us people vote in representatives. They do not vote for the programs they want by way of consensus. If they did then you might make the case that they are a socialist democracy. But they don't because the terms are mutually exclusive. In a socialist democracy people could vote for free gasoline.

Great. I get bored by semantics pretty quickly.

Back to my original point: If you think that just screaming "SOCIALIST!" is working for you, as opposed to clearly articulating an attractive alternative, keep going.
.

I pointed out how stupid you are. You don't understand words so when people discuss things you get lost and try to dismiss it as semantics.

Okay.

Keep screaming "SOCIALIST!!! AAAUUUUGGGHHH!"
.

You saw screaming when I pointed out that there's nothing democratic about socialism.

 

[Manchester]

Where in the world has free market capitalism ever ended poverty? Ever?

Here, in the United States.

You hate our Country so much, you can't see it.

Plus, you're really stupid.

Our economy, our lifestyle, our standard of living is the envy of the World.

dumbass

So the social programs of the so-called war on poverty don't exist? We don't give billions in aid to the poor for food, housing, energy, education, healthcare?

When did all that end? When did food stamps and public education and Medicaid end?

Gimme, gimme, gimme.

Where in the world has free market capitalism ever ended poverty? Ever?

Here, in the United States.

You hate our Country so much, you can't see it.

Plus, you're really stupid.

Our economy, our lifestyle, our standard of living is the envy of the World.

dumbass

MOST of the world.

Hey, if that is the way to go, then explain why we kick all their asses economically! And if the economy is the measure of a country's wealth, (aka all world economists) divided by the amount of citizens it has, then tell everyone why this is such a great idea!

You do know that China just overtook the US as the world's biggest economic power according to some indicators? And that all others have it happening between this year and 2020? And are you so short sighted that you think wealth is the only thing that is worthy of envy?

 

[Mac1958]

For the sake of this discussion, I'd say Cuba is pure socialism. Central ownership of production and distribution.

"Democratic" means, essentially, that people vote for their leaders in free and fair elections. Like, maybe, Germany.

Did I really have to say this?
.

Yes, it demonstrates why you think like you do. You're wrong. Germany is a Republic, the Federal Republic of Germany. Like us people vote in representatives. They do not vote for the programs they want by way of consensus. If they did then you might make the case that they are a socialist democracy. But they don't because the terms are mutually exclusive. In a socialist democracy people could vote for free gasoline.

Great. I get bored by semantics pretty quickly.

Back to my original point: If you think that just screaming "SOCIALIST!" is working for you, as opposed to clearly articulating an attractive alternative, keep going.
.

I pointed out how stupid you are. You don't understand words so when people discuss things you get lost and try to dismiss it as semantics.

Okay.

Keep screaming "SOCIALIST!!! AAAUUUUGGGHHH!"
.

You saw screaming when I pointed out that there's nothing democratic about socialism.

You're going to equate socialism (Cuba) with democratic socialism (Germany) no matter what I say.

Maybe this just keeps it all simpler for you, I don't know. Maybe you think it makes your argument stronger.

Great. As I've already said, keep going.
.

 

[Manchester]

I disagree. Have you got any examples?

A better reply would be socialism has a way of holding countries back and keeping them 3rd world countries, you can point to a handful of countries that leftist governments have stimed their progress. I can't think of one that has regressed because of it

Cuba, Greece, Venezuela

Cuba and Venezuela were third world shit holes before socialism went anywhere near them and Greece?

Greece was screwed by their cooking the books to get in to the Euro. With the assistance of capitalist Wall Street stalwarts Golman Sachs and Morgan Stanley and when the Centre/Conservative ND were in power. To point to the current leftist mob in charge for the fallout of the Maastrict treaty is like blaming Barrack Obama for Reganomics.

So thats still not one example.

Wrong. Cuba BEFORE Castro had one of the best economies in the world. It had a higher per capita GDP than the USA and immigrants around the world considered it the top nation to go to.

No, It had a a corrupt ruling elite who were so vastly wealthier than it's people that the numbers for everyone were driven up hugely. Add to that the American mafia using it as a safe haven and its very little wonder that the people rose up and overthrew those in charge. It's a shame that those in charge curtail their peoples freedoms now, although having been there myself and seen first hand how things are Cuba isn't that bad a place to be. The people may complain at the lack of freedoms from time to time but they are all well educated and if they get sick they get a doctor. They're more free than the dirt poor in the US.

You stated Cuba was a shithole before Castro. Nothing could be more incorrect. Please do not post falsehoods.

I did, because it was. There was no falsehood about it. Batista was known for his torture and public executions.

 

[Edgetho]

You do know that China just overtook the US as the world's biggest economic power according to some indicators? And that all others have it happening between this year and 2020? And are you so short sighted that you think wealth is the only thing that is worthy of envy?

Based on PPP. Which is stupidity at its finest.

But, the reason China is doing so well is really simple -- They have abandoned socialist economic principles while still keeping one-party socialist Rule.

The economy and the government are two different things, Lancaster.

All you got is snippets. And juvenile snippets at that.

China is currently falling on its face, too.

 

[NightFox]

It all exists on a continuum.

Pure socialism is clearly to the left of democratic socialism.
.

Uh-huh and if you dilute cyanide with kool-aid it'll still kill ya, just not as fast.

All brands of socialism are just different flavors of collectivist authoritarianism whereby the individual is expected to surrender his/her liberty to the will of the state and it always leads to bad outcomes... just ask the Scandinavian Countries that Bernie and his brainless lemming followers like to point to, they nearly destroyed the prosperous economies that free market policies built with their flirtations with "democratic socialism" and have had to perform a hasty retreat in the last decade to save themselves from economic decline.

 

[NYcarbineer]

For the sake of this discussion, I'd say Cuba is pure socialism. Central ownership of production and distribution.

"Democratic" means, essentially, that people vote for their leaders in free and fair elections. Like, maybe, Germany.

Did I really have to say this?
.

Yes, it demonstrates why you think like you do. You're wrong. Germany is a Republic, the Federal Republic of Germany. Like us people vote in representatives. They do not vote for the programs they want by way of consensus. If they did then you might make the case that they are a socialist democracy. But they don't because the terms are mutually exclusive. In a socialist democracy people could vote for free gasoline.

Great. I get bored by semantics pretty quickly.

Back to my original point: If you think that just screaming "SOCIALIST!" is working for you, as opposed to clearly articulating an attractive alternative, keep going.
.

I pointed out how stupid you are. You don't understand words so when people discuss things you get lost and try to dismiss it as semantics.

Okay.

Keep screaming "SOCIALIST!!! AAAUUUUGGGHHH!"
.

You saw screaming when I pointed out that there's nothing democratic about socialism.

Your school board is democratic and runs a socialist institution.

 

[Edgetho]

You're going to equate socialism (Cuba) with democratic socialism (Germany) no matter what I say.

Maybe this just keeps it all simpler for you, I don't know. Maybe you think it makes your argument stronger.

Great. As I've already said, keep going.
.

Germany is NOT a democratic socialist political or economic Country.

That is simply a lie. Or stupidity. Or, most likely -- Both.

 

[Mac1958]

It all exists on a continuum.

Pure socialism is clearly to the left of democratic socialism.
.

Uh-huh and if you dilute cyanide with kool-aid it'll still kill ya, just not as fast.

All brands of socialism are just different flavors of collectivist authoritarianism whereby the individual is expected to surrender his/her liberty to the will of the state and it always leads to bad outcomes... just ask the Scandinavian Countries that Bernie and his brainless lemming followers like to point to, they nearly destroyed the prosperous economies that free market policies built with their flirtations with "democratic socialism" and have had to perform a hasty retreat in the last decade to save themselves from economic decline.

It all exists on a continuum.

As we all know, we have "socialist" elements right here in the good 'ol USA.
.

 

[imawhosure]

Yep and Capitalism = Slavery to money.

No more than breathing is "slavery" to oxygen. Capitalism is economic freedom. Money is just the denomination you work in. Customers, businesses, employers, employees, all make their own best decision. As shitty a decision people often make for themselves, empowering people to make decisions for others is inevitably worse

Hey, don't let these people redefine SOCIALISM to make it more palatable by putting DEMOCRATIC in front of it.

If they want to define a country as DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST, then,

1. Show us where the government says that is what they are.

2. After they prove that they are, then lets start comparing what they live in, what they drive, and the price of their goods with the United States.

3. Then lets see what their tax rates are.

These people insisting it is peaches and cream are either naive, or know better and are trying to deceive. Who wants their family living in 800sq feet? Anyone?

That's fine, but here's what actually happening: While conservatives are screaming "SOCIALISM! SOCIALISM! AAAAUUGGHHH!", liberals are making the case for it. And where are we now?

We've now reached a point where people are looking at government programs many conservatives would call "socialism" - Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and many others - and saying "oh, well, if that's socialism, then I must be for socialism". In other words, the Right has made it easier for the Left to make its case.

If the Right wants to win this argument, it should stop just screaming "SOCIALISM!" -- which is clearly no longer scaring people as it used to -- and make its case for an alternative, for a change. It may be too late for that, anyway.
.

Sorry Mac, gotta disagree with you on this one. The SOCIALIST model, DEMOCRATIC in front of it or not, will be put on trial to the American public if the nominee is Bernie. The Socialists on here can play patty-cake all they want now, but as soon as the commercials come out if Bernie is the victor on the Democratic side about what things cost over there, how much of their money they are left with after they are taxed to pay for the "free" stuff will bury him.

At this moment, nobody on the GOP side is attacking Sanders to much, because they like the idea he is making life miserable for Hillary. It is akin to the left talking nicely about Rubio and Kasich, as they claim they want Trump, but actually want him to go away because he has the "enthusiasm" thing going for him.

Let me put it this way--------------> I don't think Bernie has a chance against ANY of the GOP candidates once their sights are set on him. But....................if the GOP would actually lose to Bernie, then they can't beat any of the Democratic nominees, thus making it the Democrats or DNCs job to stop him in the primaries. Know what? That is not the GOPs job if SOCIALISM is a bad thing in both party's eyes. That means if it is the DNCs job cause the GOP can't win, I am off the hook because this election, I have little to do with the DNC, and so are you of the hook I think! What would you have me(most of us) do? Start supporting Hillary to stop Bernie, lol!

I don't for a moment think that Bernie wants to turn us into Cuba.

I do think, however, that he'd like to see us look like Germany or Norway.

Two different things.
.

Sorry, just don't think it will happen. To many corporations will announce they are leaving if he gets the nomination, and say "if he is elected." These corporations all have voters working for them.

He then has to either suggest he will use government to keep them here, or explain where the money is then coming from.

If he suggests using government, it is over...........because then it shows the mindset of the Socialists.

If he tries to show new money, then that is fail too as we both know it doesn't exist.

By rights, Hillary should be eating his lunch everywhere but maybe Vermont. What this tells most thinking people is----------> Hillary can't attack to much, or it puts a severe dent in her own talking points. The GOP doesn't have this governor on them.

Still, nobody knows for sure if the balance of government handouts has exceeded 50% of the population or not. If it has, then again.........it is the DNCs job to stop him, not ours, if they know for a fact that the GOP has no chance.

That is what the lefties on here tell us, so if they can't stop him, then they better vote GOP if they believe Socialism is a bad thing. If not, welcome to Socialism, plain and simple. Their choice, stop him now, stop him later, or accept what he offers. Can't say it any plainer than that.

 

[Edgetho]

I did, because it was. There was no falsehood about it. Batista was known for his torture and public executions.

And the Castro boys are an improvement?

moron

 

[Mac1958]

You're going to equate socialism (Cuba) with democratic socialism (Germany) no matter what I say.

Maybe this just keeps it all simpler for you, I don't know. Maybe you think it makes your argument stronger.

Great. As I've already said, keep going.
.

Germany is NOT a democratic socialist political or economic Country.

That is simply a lie. Or stupidity. Or, most likely -- Both.

Oy.

Okay, call it what you will. I don't know if you're choosing not to see a difference, or if you really can't.

But this notion that a country is either "socialist" or "not socialist" is shallow and simplistic in the extreme.
.

 

[Edgetho]

Just stop, all of you, with your use of the words 'socialist and socialism'

You have no idea what the FUCK you're talking about.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

"Our top story tonight, the number of American Progressives hopping an inner tube from Miami to Cuba is still zero! Good night and have a pleasant tomorrow!"

 

[gipper]

Cuba, Greece, Venezuela

Cuba and Venezuela were third world shit holes before socialism went anywhere near them and Greece?

Greece was screwed by their cooking the books to get in to the Euro. With the assistance of capitalist Wall Street stalwarts Golman Sachs and Morgan Stanley and when the Centre/Conservative ND were in power. To point to the current leftist mob in charge for the fallout of the Maastrict treaty is like blaming Barrack Obama for Reganomics.

So thats still not one example.

Wrong. Cuba BEFORE Castro had one of the best economies in the world. It had a higher per capita GDP than the USA and immigrants around the world considered it the top nation to go to.

No, It had a a corrupt ruling elite who were so vastly wealthier than it's people that the numbers for everyone were driven up hugely. Add to that the American mafia using it as a safe haven and its very little wonder that the people rose up and overthrew those in charge. It's a shame that those in charge curtail their peoples freedoms now, although having been there myself and seen first hand how things are Cuba isn't that bad a place to be. The people may complain at the lack of freedoms from time to time but they are all well educated and if they get sick they get a doctor. They're more free than the dirt poor in the US.

You stated Cuba was a shithole before Castro. Nothing could be more incorrect. Please do not post falsehoods.

I did, because it was. There was no falsehood about it. Batista was known for his torture and public executions.

Your first post did mention Batista. Do your research please. Cuba had a powerful economy in the first half of the 20th century. One of the best in the world. Castro screwed all that up, as crazed dictators often do.

 

[Mac1958]

Just stop, all of you, with your use of the words 'socialist and socialism'. You have no idea what the FUCK you're talking about.

Ah, well it's certainly nice to know that we have you here to enlighten us.

Please, then, give us The Definition of Socialism.
.

 

[Iceweasel]

Yes, it demonstrates why you think like you do. You're wrong. Germany is a Republic, the Federal Republic of Germany. Like us people vote in representatives. They do not vote for the programs they want by way of consensus. If they did then you might make the case that they are a socialist democracy. But they don't because the terms are mutually exclusive. In a socialist democracy people could vote for free gasoline.

Great. I get bored by semantics pretty quickly.

Back to my original point: If you think that just screaming "SOCIALIST!" is working for you, as opposed to clearly articulating an attractive alternative, keep going.
.

I pointed out how stupid you are. You don't understand words so when people discuss things you get lost and try to dismiss it as semantics.

Okay.

Keep screaming "SOCIALIST!!! AAAUUUUGGGHHH!"
.

You saw screaming when I pointed out that there's nothing democratic about socialism.

You're going to equate socialism (Cuba) with democratic socialism (Germany) no matter what I say.

Maybe this just keeps it all simpler for you, I don't know. Maybe you think it makes your argument stronger.

Great. As I've already said, keep going.

It does, I said you don't understand words and I made the exact opposite point you think I did. I said quite plainly that Germany isn't socialist, it's a Republic and democracy isn't compatible with socialism, and that the words democratic socialism is a misnomer, probably on purpose to soft sell it. But you saw screaming and had a gross misunderstanding.