ABC's John Stossel, Ahole of 2006

[Annie]

Security is handled by US jurisdictions....the business of running the port operations is the question that I think confuses you.

There will still be US customs, ICE, DEA, FBI and any number of federal alphabet soup types, as well as local law enforcement handling ALL the security. Our national security is not for sale.....maybe you should read up a bit more on exactly what is for sale, before you spread misinformation, and confuse those who are not thinking for themselves.

Our security is not being outsourced.

That would be like the police force, The Port Authority of New York?

 

[Fmr jarhead]

That would be like the police force, The Port Authority of New York?

Correct, local and US federal law enforcement have and will continue to have jurisdiction. Ownership and operation of the port is already being run by a foriegn held company in the transaction which you are referring.

 

[Annie]

Correct, local and US federal law enforcement have and will continue to have jurisdiction. Ownership and operation of the port is already being run by a foriegn held company in the transaction which you are referring.

If what I've read is correct, the UAE company bought out the British Company, thus the change. In any case, from everything I'm reading, I still think that control of borders, ports, any gates of entry should be controlled by Americans and American companies/agencies. There have been problems with just 'baggage carriers' and 'cleaning crews' at the airports.

 

[Fmr jarhead]

If what I've read is correct, the UAE company bought out the British Company, thus the change. In any case, from everything I'm reading, I still think that control of borders, ports, any gates of entry should be controlled by Americans and American companies/agencies. There have been problems with just 'baggage carriers' and 'cleaning crews' at the airports.

Yes, but if you look athe example set by the IRS, USPS and the DMV, I think we should look for help in how the government runs some of it's operations....

We rely heavily on the amount of technology we buy from foriegn countries for security....that is scary as well.

But this issue at hand is the operation of the ports (as a business) Where are all the US companies that specialize in this type of operation...to my knowledge there are 2 companies...Maersk and the one from the UAE that have it pretty well wrapped up. I doubt that a small company could come in, and buy out one or two ports operations, because singularly, it makes poor business sense....it is BIG business (rivalling OIL)

I think the furor is more about the media trying to glom on to an issue and peg it on the administration than about the nuts and bolts of what is going on...

Similarly the media's hype of the Whittington accident.....where is the outrage from the media over the most senior elected Democrat having a stroke and "hiding" it from the public for 3 days.....(not that I care...Sen Reid from Nevada is recovering well, though)

The media is driving politics (instead of reporting the news...they are pressuring situations to MAKE news), and that is what is skewing the casual observer's take on situations.

 

[Annie]

Yes, but if you look athe example set by the IRS, USPS and the DMV, I think we should look for help in how the government runs some of it's operations....

We rely heavily on the amount of technology we buy from foriegn countries for security....that is scary as well.

But this issue at hand is the operation of the ports (as a business) Where are all the US companies that specialize in this type of operation...to my knowledge there are 2 companies...Maersk and the one from the UAE that have it pretty well wrapped up. I doubt that a small company could come in, and buy out one or two ports operations, because singularly, it makes poor business sense....it is BIG business (rivalling OIL)

I think the furor is more about the media trying to glom on to an issue and peg it on the administration than about the nuts and bolts of what is going on...

Similarly the media's hype of the Whittington accident.....where is the outrage from the media over the most senior elected Democrat having a stroke and "hiding" it from the public for 3 days.....(not that I care...Sen Reid from Nevada is recovering well, though)

The media is driving politics (instead of reporting the news...they are pressuring situations to MAKE news), and that is what is skewing the casual observer's take on situations.

Can't disagree with the bold, however in this case it may be highlighting a problem to be addressed or perhaps an opportunity awaiting someone(s). If what you wrote about not having American firms qualified for such, then we should be making that deficiency loud and clear. Time for someone to step into the breach and make the $$$ as well as serving our own defense.

On a related note, Europe should likewise be addressing their problem of self defense, but whether or not they do, it's their choice. If I were them, I wouldn't be counting on the US to a very large extent, those days are over.

 

[Fmr jarhead]

Can't disagree with the bold, however in this case it may be highlighting a problem to be addressed or perhaps an opportunity awaiting someone(s). If what you wrote about not having American firms qualified for such, then we should be making that deficiency loud and clear. Time for someone to step into the breach and make the $$$ as well as serving our own defense.

On a related note, Europe should likewise be addressing their problem of self defense, but whether or not they do, it's their choice. If I were them, I wouldn't be counting on the US to a very large extent, those days are over.

The port buyout is not about defense.....the security is going to continue to be done by Americans, as it is now.

 

[Annie]

The port buyout is not about defense.....the security is going to continue to be done by Americans, as it is now.

That is not the point, the point is some things are defense 'related', those should be under our total control and laws, including hiring.

We are just going to disagree on this, but thanks for making me more interested in it.

 

[Fmr jarhead]

That is not the point, the point is some things are defense 'related', those should be under our total control and laws, including hiring.

We are just going to disagree on this, but thanks for making me more interested in it.

WE are also dancing around semantics, as well....are you talking about security or defense?

If defense, then you also need to look in to the "posse comitatus act" that forbids the use of military with regard to civilian affairs (abridged and cliff notes version)....defense is the military...security is another story altogether, which I think you are speaking about.....

...and yes, it is imperative that we have strong security and intelligence in our ports....and not fettered by the operations end of it, in my opinion....if our goal is security, let private corporations run the business end of it, since we are a capitalist republic, but with a strong, secure, and specific security policy in place run by local and federal jurisdictions (and that we do not disagree on, I am certain)

BTW...did we hijack this thread......I don't think Stossel is and a##hole....I saw the report, and I thought it was very good, as is his usual style. Pissing people off with a few facts, in face of widespread notions that are just fallacies, usually.

 

[Annie]

WE are also dancing around semantics, as well....are you talking about security or defense?

If defense, then you also need to look in to the "posse comitatus act" that forbids the use of military with regard to civilian affairs (abridged and cliff notes version)....defense is the military...security is another story altogether, which I think you are speaking about.....

...and yes, it is imperative that we have strong security and intelligence in our ports....and not fettered by the operations end of it, in my opinion....if our goal is security, let private corporations run the business end of it, since we are a capitalist republic, but with a strong, secure, and specific security policy in place run by local and federal jurisdictions (and that we do not disagree on, I am certain)

BTW...did we hijack this thread......I don't think Stossel is and a##hole....I saw the report, and I thought it was very good, as is his usual style. Pissing people off with a few facts, in face of widespread notions that are just fallacies, usually.

Yeah, we did, though I believe we started off agreeing about Stossel.

Actually, my take is that some 'areas' are too sensitive to have foreign firms or non-citizens in 'restricted access areas' which of course, if that is their job, would be unfair. So, make it impossible for that to be their job.

I would say that should include ports of entry, water treatment plants, power plants, chemical plants, oil refineries, etc.

 

[Annie]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/PORTS_SECURITY?SITE=DCUSN&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Feb 11, 9:41 AM EST

UAE Co. Poised to Oversee Six U.S. Ports

By TED BRIDIS
Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) -- A company in the United Arab Emirates is poised to take over significant operations at six American ports as part of a corporate sale, leaving a country with ties to the Sept. 11 hijackers with influence over a maritime industry considered vulnerable to terrorism.

The Bush administration considers the UAE an important ally in the fight against terrorism since the suicide hijackings and is not objecting to Dubai Ports World's purchase of London-based Peninsular and Oriental Steam Navigation Co.

The $6.8 billion sale is expected to be approved Monday. The British company is the fourth largest ports company in the world and its sale would affect commercial U.S. port operations in New York, New Jersey, Baltimore, New Orleans, Miami and Philadelphia.

DP World said it won approval from a secretive U.S. government panel that considers security risks of foreign companies buying or investing in American industry.

The U.S. Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States "thoroughly reviewed the potential transaction and concluded they had no objection," the company said in a statement to The Associated Press.

The committee earlier agreed to consider concerns about the deal as expressed by a Miami-based company, Eller & Co., according to Eller's lawyer, Michael Kreitzer. Eller is a business partner with the British shipping giant but was not in the running to buy the ports company.

The committee, which could have recommended that President Bush block the purchase, includes representatives from the departments of Treasury, Defense, Justice, Commerce, State and Homeland Security.

The State Department describes the UAE as a vital partner in the fight against terrorism. But the UAE, a loose federation of seven emirates on the Saudi peninsula, was an important operational and financial base for the hijackers who carried out the attacks against New York and Washington, the FBI concluded.


Sen. Charles Schumer, a Democrat whose district includes the New York port, urged the administration to consider the sale carefully.

"America's busiest ports are vital to our economy and to the international economy, and that is why they remain top terrorist targets," Schumer said. "Just as we would not outsource military operations or law enforcement duties, we should be very careful before we outsource such sensitive homeland security duties."

Last month, the White House appointed a senior DP World executive, David C. Sanborn of Virginia, to be the new administrator of the Maritime Administration of the Transportation Department. Sanborn worked as DP World's director of operations for Europe and Latin America.

Critics of the proposed purchase said a port operator complicit in smuggling or terrorism could manipulate manifests and other records to frustrate Homeland Security's already limited scrutiny of shipping containers and slip contraband past U.S. Customs inspectors.

"When you have a foreign government involved, you are injecting foreign national interests," Kreitzer said. "A country that may be a friend of ours today may not be on the same side tomorrow. You don't know in advance what the politics of that country will be in the future."

Shipping experts noted that many of the world's largest port companies are not based in the U.S., and they pointed to DP World's strong economic interest in operating ports securely and efficiently.

"Does this pose a national security risk? I think that's pushing the envelope," said Stephen E. Flynn, who studies maritime security at the New York-based Council on Foreign Relations. "It's not impossible to imagine one could develop an internal conspiracy, but I'd have to assign it a very low probability."

I just don't see why we'd want to open the possibility at such vital sites.

Changing management over the U.S. ports "doesn't offer al-Qaida any opportunities it doesn't have now," said James Lewis, who worked with the U.S. committee at the State and Commerce departments. "It's in Dubai's interest to make sure this runs well. There is strong economic incentive to be sure these worries never materialize."

Flynn and others said even under foreign control, U.S. ports will continue to be run by unionized American employees. "You're not going have a bunch of UAE citizens working the docks," Flynn said. "They're longshoremen, vested in high-paying jobs. Most of them are Archie Bunker-kind of Americans."

Peninsular and Oriental and DP World set approval by the U.S. security committee as a condition for the sale. In regulatory papers, the companies said either the committee must agree not to formally investigate the purchase or Bush must not move to block the sale for national security purposes.

Since the Sept. 11 attacks, the FBI has said the money for the strikes was transferred to the hijackers primarily through the UAE's banking system, and much of the operational planning for the attacks took place inside the UAE.

Many of the hijackers traveled to the U.S. through the UAE. Also, the hijacker who steered United Airlines flight into the World Trade Center's south tower, Marwan al-Shehhi, was born in the UAE.

After the attacks, U.S. Treasury Department officials complained about a lack of cooperation by the UAE and other Arab countries trying to track Osama bin Laden's bank accounts.

 

[Working Man]

Agreed, except for UAE company at our ports! Same with any kind of 'homeland security' issue. Should be USA only. That would be my only caveat.

I agree with the concern as I no longer feel that the UAE is the friend of this country. But then I don't feel that the US has proven to be worthy of friendship either.. Much of what the US government does overseas is based on need for greed. Or greedy needs.. Like oil to power SUVs etc... Foriegn policy that is driven by the all mighty dollar is not good policy.

US personnel should be running our ports. While they are still ours. Remember,, we are on borrowed time as a country.

And yes, I am shopping for a hybrid vehicle. I don't want to buy as much petroleum as I have in the past. I still feel that the less need we have on foreign oil, the more secure this country will become.. For many reasons.

 

[Working Man]

What's wrong with them? (other than the usual union snafus and slowdowns?)[/QUOTE]

The Longshoreman's union is very powerful. The members make megabucks. I would agree that there have been issues that may have weekened the ports due to contractual demands.. I just can't recall the stuff pulled in LA, and Providence... But,, that is why there should be debate and dialogue.

 

[Working Man]

Can you tell me how our economy has suffered from outsourcing? Last I checked, it helps makes companies here more competitive on the global market by lowering prices...

I live in the United States, not in some global matrix. One of the things that protects me is that we have some borders. One of the things that I feel used to be our strength was our ability to be self supportive.. That is gone, probably for good. Therefore we have no collective adhesive to stay a soveriegn country. Nobody gives a shit that this country is in a decline, that is why it is easy for the terrorists to bring it home, to the US. You know something I don't about the indicators that are starting to signal a recession?

Cheap imports do what for me?
I don't want my kid's lunch box made with lead products.. Happens all the time with Chinese imports.. Why?? Don't you give a shit that those bastards are making all kinds of junk that contains dangerous levels of harmful substances?? What has lead got to do with plastic lunch boxes, toys, window drapes/curtains, etc???? They doing it intentionaly??

Do you have a problem with somebody getting a decent entry level job in a manufacturing company?? Have issue with Americans being able to use their brains and learn something that could come in handy in keeping our country safe?? Like skills in design, planning,, etc??? When their are less jobs to be had, what do health insurance rates do, or even the number of people who can get Health insurance? The rates go up, the co pays go up, the employee contributions go up because it has become a take it or leave it job environment. If there were more decent jobs to go around, the competition to attact employees would help insure a better level of insurance. Moms,,dads, could get better healthcare then for their kids.. But, when jobs require less skill, and can be done by the moms, dads, or the kids,, what is the need for perks and benefits?

In WW1 and WW2, our manufacturing plants stopped producing car parts and built tanks.. They stopped making sewing machines and built machine guns. They stopped making panty hose and made rope and parachutes.. Today we can find remnants of those old factories but the machinery that made this country great has been sold for scrap and shipped to China. The brain power that could shift on the fly and multitask(build just about anything you wanted) at a momments notice is dead and gone. Their grand sons, and grand daughters can't even start a lawn mower without an interactive cd showing them how.

All this talk of unfair tax structures driving business out of the US,, etc by the people who post on this board,, what the hell are you guys doing about it?? Ever go to a public meeting with your house/senate rep and bitch them out in public???

I would prefer to pay $100 for American made shoes, and clothes.. Instead, all of the profit is going to offshore companies, and some to the son of a bitch low life scum sucking maggots that run our retail stores.

 

[MtnBiker]

Fuck the global market.

Should the American citizens working here in the United States but for forgein companies quite their jobs?

 

[Working Man]

Should the American citizens working here in the United States but for forgein companies quite their jobs?

Sure, I recognize that we are part of a global business. But there is an imbalance in this whole global economy thing. What business are we into, as Americans,, that we can export and get paid for?? Other than wheat and corn, and OUR natural resources???

Hypothetical.... World War III.105g (new high speed war) breaks out tomorrow 07:00,, what do you do??

You can't turn a button factory into a bullet factory,, when you need more rounds for the military when, you HAVE NO BUTTON FACTORIES LEFT..

You can't turn your typewriter factories into machine gun factories when,,,,ok,,[ make pretend we make computers in that old typewriter factory }and then call on them to assemble the goggles needed by our troops.

Who you going to call to make the ICs and chips needed, the multi layer boards, the soldering equipment for the weapons electronics?? Going to relli on what is left to our elecltronics bussiness system??

The bottom line is that we can't even defend ourselves with the bu siness's that we have since they are dwindling, and the workforce becoming ever more untrained..

Do you think we can just tell the brokerage houses to have their money experts MAN YOUR BATTLE STATIONS and go get the boogie man??? More than likely, the only stations today's youth can man, without real world work experience/training is a Playstation..

That is just a scenario if we were to REALLY need to crank out the materials needed for a real war.. How about job diversity, retooling for non war needs??? No problem,, that stuff the Chinese are doing now just fine..Their manufacturing machine can spin on a dime and produce computers to condoms in a jiffy. Fax it to them before you hit the rack, and cut the check tomorrow as the task will be done, and the order filled... Hell, their employees/workers can probably build a fighter jet from the leftover spare parts they have from the tractor business, and do it all on their lunch hour..

 

[Eightball]

I'd like to enter "Brian Gumbel" in this esteemed category.

 

[MtnBiker]

Sure, I recognize that we are part of a global business. But there is an imbalance in this whole global economy thing. What business are we into, as Americans,, that we can export and get paid for?? Other than wheat and corn, and OUR natural resources???

You call Stossel an ahole for reporting on outsourcing in the USA but believe it is ok for forgein companies to outsource here in USA?

 

[Working Man]

You call Stossel an ahole for reporting on outsourcing in the USA but believe it is ok for forgein companies to outsource here in USA?

Pratt and Whitney
Nunn Bush
Sebago
Florsheim
Red Wing
Chippewa
Huskey
Chicago Pnuematic
Black and Decker
Stanley Industries
Harley Davidson, (at least the bulk of their high priced apparel line is Hecho en Chine)
GM
FORD,
ING
DELL
EVERY MAJOR F'n Electronics manufacture, even those based in the US
OMC,,( Bombardier??)

Here are some that I know have sent many jobs off shore..

Come up with a list of companies, who has outsourced jobs too the US. I would like to know who is sending the US the living wage jobs that can be countered to those we have lost. Show me the list of foreign company names of those firms who are offsetting the trade imbalance due to the sellout of the US to China,, alone..
START HERE:

 

[dilloduck]

Pratt and Whitney
GM
FORD,
ING
DELL
EVERY MAJOR F'n Electronics manufacture, even those based in the US
OMC,,( Bombardier??)

Here are some that I know have sent many jobs off shore..

Come up with a list who has outsourced to the US,, where the living wage jobs have been moved too. Show me the list of foreign company names of those firms who are offsetting the trade imbalance due to the sellout of the US to China,, alone..
START HERE:

Nissan
Samsung

 

[Working Man]

Nissan
Samsung

Are those two manufacturing here in the US, and engineering here? Or are they just having US employees assemble here, and distribute?