Abortion as Murder.

[Lisa4Catholics]

Unwanted pregnancies. A zygote is not a baby. A fetus is not a baby. A fetus doesn't even have sentience that is measurable until the 22nd week of pregnancy. Pregnancy is not even considered to have started until the zygote attaches to the uterine wall.

Let me ask you a question. Does the topic of abortion bring up hate in your heart?

Do you hate people who have different spiritual views about when human life begins?

No I hate abortion and all acts of murder.You see I do not hate you because I disagree with you, that is something I do not understand, I do hate evil debase acts, of all kinds there is a difference in hating a horrible injustice and hating the perpetrator of it.

You hate. Period. I can relate. I hate intolerance. Bottom line. I hate.
Some people think hate is righteous. I don't.

I do not hate people I hate evil acts, apparently, you have either misread my post, I was not clear in my post or you want to intentionally mislead people about my heart and intentions,which is apparently quite common these days..

 

[Sky Dancer]

No I hate abortion and all acts of murder.You see I do not hate you because I disagree with you, that is something I do not understand, I do hate evil debase acts, of all kinds there is a difference in hating a horrible injustice and hating the perpetrator of it.

You hate. Period. I can relate. I hate intolerance. Bottom line. I hate.
Some people think hate is righteous. I don't.

I do not hate people I hate evil acts, apparently, you have either misread my post, I was not clear in my post or you want to intentionally mislead people about my heart and intentions,which is apparently quite common these days..

You hate 'evil acts'. You consider abortion an 'evil act'. I hate intolerance. We both hate something.

Hate is the problem.

The solution to the hate problem? For me, it's to not be intolerant. For you, it's to not have an abortion.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

You hate. Period. I can relate. I hate intolerance. Bottom line. I hate.
Some people think hate is righteous. I don't.

I do not hate people I hate evil acts, apparently, you have either misread my post, I was not clear in my post or you want to intentionally mislead people about my heart and intentions,which is apparently quite common these days..

You hate 'evil acts'. You consider abortion an 'evil act'. I hate intolerance. We both hate something.

Hate is the problem.

The solution to the hate problem? For me, it's to not be intolerant. For you, it's to not have an abortion.

Tolerance is not to tolerate someone else infringement on the life of another.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I do not hate people I hate evil acts, apparently, you have either misread my post, I was not clear in my post or you want to intentionally mislead people about my heart and intentions,which is apparently quite common these days..

You hate 'evil acts'. You consider abortion an 'evil act'. I hate intolerance. We both hate something.

Hate is the problem.

The solution to the hate problem? For me, it's to not be intolerant. For you, it's to not have an abortion.

Tolerance is not to tolerate someone else infringement on the life of another.

Tolerance is not hating intolerance.

One could view the pregnant woman's life as being infringed upon by fanatics who want to force her to host a fetus in her body against her will.

Here is where you and I can possibly find common ground. You're a catholic. Abortion is a sin to you. I'm a Buddhist. Abortion is killling, and killing is a grave non-virtue. I would never advise anyone to have an abortion if asked my opinion. You're likely the same.

The difference between us is that I've lived to see abortion criminalized and I remember it's ugliness.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

You hate 'evil acts'. You consider abortion an 'evil act'. I hate intolerance. We both hate something.

Hate is the problem.

The solution to the hate problem? For me, it's to not be intolerant. For you, it's to not have an abortion.

Tolerance is not to tolerate someone else infringement on the life of another.

Tolerance is not hating intolerance.

One could view the pregnant woman's life as being infringed upon by having to host a fetus against her will.

Did the baby just jump on in there by him or herself? BTW my husband was a "product" of rape, so according to alot of people he should have received the death penalty for the actions of his father.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Tolerance is not to tolerate someone else infringement on the life of another.

Tolerance is not hating intolerance.

One could view the pregnant woman's life as being infringed upon by having to host a fetus against her will.

Did the baby just jump on in there by him or herself? BTW my husband was a "product" of rape, so according to alot of people he should have received the death penalty for the actions of his father.

Why are you getting angry with me? I wouldn't have an abortion and I wouldn't counsel anyone to have an abortion. I happen to think babies that are the product of rape are spiritually special beings.

Abortion does not meet the definition of murder. Murder is the illegal killing of a human being with malice aforethought. Abortion is legalized termination of human tissue that has the potential to grow into a human being.

What anti-choice fanatics are about is demonizing people who don't favor re-criminalizing abortion. Am I evil because I don't favor re-criminalizing abortion?

Do you really envision a future with Magdalene style prisons tieing women down for 9 months to make them give birth, imprisoning them for life or killing them outright for terminating their pregnancies? Brr creepy.

Legal or illegal, women will choose abortions. The question is whether we kill the women for choosing abortion or not.

I remember back alley abortions.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Tolerance is not hating intolerance.

One could view the pregnant woman's life as being infringed upon by having to host a fetus against her will.

Did the baby just jump on in there by him or herself? BTW my husband was a "product" of rape, so according to alot of people he should have received the death penalty for the actions of his father.

Why are you getting angry with me? I wouldn't have an abortion and I wouldn't counsel anyone to have an abortion. I happen to think babies that are the product of rape are spiritually special beings.

Abortion does not meet the definition of murder. Murder is the illegal killing of a human being with malice aforethought. Abortion is legalized termination of human tissue that has the potential to grow into a human being.

What anti-choice fanatics are about is demonizing people who don't favor re-criminalizing abortion. Do you really envision a future with Magdalene style prisons tieing women down for 9 months to make them give birth or killing them for terminating their pregnancies?

I am not angry with you, at all. I am for life, choice is deceptive because you rob the unborn child of life and choice. Where in the world did you see me espouse killing women....or anyone for that matter, I am against the death penalty as well.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Did the baby just jump on in there by him or herself? BTW my husband was a "product" of rape, so according to alot of people he should have received the death penalty for the actions of his father.

Why are you getting angry with me? I wouldn't have an abortion and I wouldn't counsel anyone to have an abortion. I happen to think babies that are the product of rape are spiritually special beings.

Abortion does not meet the definition of murder. Murder is the illegal killing of a human being with malice aforethought. Abortion is legalized termination of human tissue that has the potential to grow into a human being.

What anti-choice fanatics are about is demonizing people who don't favor re-criminalizing abortion. Do you really envision a future with Magdalene style prisons tieing women down for 9 months to make them give birth or killing them for terminating their pregnancies?

I am not angry with you, at all. I am for life, choice is deceptive because you rob the unborn child of life and choice. Where in the world did you see me espouse killing women....or anyone for that matter, I am against the death penalty as well.

Women will die in illegal back alley abortions if abortion is criminalized.
Are two deaths better than one? IMO, criminalizing abortion is not pro-life.

Your argument is abortion is murder. Murder receives the death penalty in many states.

I'm old enough to remember women dying from unsafe abortions. Criminalizing abortion will not prevent abortion.

Fail safe contraception will.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Why are you getting angry with me? I wouldn't have an abortion and I wouldn't counsel anyone to have an abortion. I happen to think babies that are the product of rape are spiritually special beings.

Abortion does not meet the definition of murder. Murder is the illegal killing of a human being with malice aforethought. Abortion is legalized termination of human tissue that has the potential to grow into a human being.

What anti-choice fanatics are about is demonizing people who don't favor re-criminalizing abortion. Do you really envision a future with Magdalene style prisons tieing women down for 9 months to make them give birth or killing them for terminating their pregnancies?

I am not angry with you, at all. I am for life, choice is deceptive because you rob the unborn child of life and choice. Where in the world did you see me espouse killing women....or anyone for that matter, I am against the death penalty as well.

Women will die in illegal back alley abortions if abortion is criminalized.
Are two deaths better than one?

Your argument is abortion is murder. Murder receives the death penalty in many states.

I'm old enough to remember women dying from unsafe abortions. Criminalizing abortion will not prevent abortion.

Fail safe contraception will.

If womens hearts are changed they will not, if it is illegal alot of women and girls will look into why it is illegal and what happens to the children, as well when the scientific community says there is a human life present-conception.I am against the death penalty, as previously stated. So will self control.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I am not angry with you, at all. I am for life, choice is deceptive because you rob the unborn child of life and choice. Where in the world did you see me espouse killing women....or anyone for that matter, I am against the death penalty as well.

Women will die in illegal back alley abortions if abortion is criminalized.
Are two deaths better than one?

Your argument is abortion is murder. Murder receives the death penalty in many states.

I'm old enough to remember women dying from unsafe abortions. Criminalizing abortion will not prevent abortion.

Fail safe contraception will.

If womens hearts are changed they will not, if it is illegal alot of women and girls will look into why it is illegal and what happens to the children, as well when the scientific community says there is a human life present-conception.I am against the death penalty, as previously stated. So will self control.

Criminalizing abortion will not change any woman's heart. Yelling and picketing in front of Planned Parenthood will not change anyone's heart.

Having compassion will change women's hearts. Scientific information currently does not support the view that human life, human beings begin at conception. Sentience can be measured by recording higher brain wave function at 22 weeks.

You assume all unplanned pregancies are the result of a lack of self-control. I submit they are a result of the failure of contraception.

We've had illegal abortions. I remember them. They did not prevent women from choosing abortions, they just made it more likely the women would die from the unsafe procedures.

Legalized abortion has made the procedures safe.

If anti-choice advocates are serious about helping women they ought to be advocating for safe, affordable and effective contraception and planned parenthood.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Women will die in illegal back alley abortions if abortion is criminalized.
Are two deaths better than one?

Your argument is abortion is murder. Murder receives the death penalty in many states.

I'm old enough to remember women dying from unsafe abortions. Criminalizing abortion will not prevent abortion.

Fail safe contraception will.

If womens hearts are changed they will not, if it is illegal alot of women and girls will look into why it is illegal and what happens to the children, as well when the scientific community says there is a human life present-conception.I am against the death penalty, as previously stated. So will self control.

Criminalizing abortion will not change any woman's heart. Yelling and picketing in front of Planned Parenthood will not change anyone's heart.

Having compassion will change women's hearts. Scientific information currently does not support the view that human life, human beings begin at conception. Sentience can be measured by recording higher brain wave function at 22 weeks.

You assume all unplanned pregancies are the result of a lack of self-control. I submit they are a result of the failure of contraception.

We've had illegal abortions. I remember them. They did not prevent women from choosing abortions, they just made it more likely the women would die from the unsafe procedures.

Legalized abortion has made the procedures safe.

If anti-choice advocates are serious about helping women they ought to be advocating for safe, affordable and effective contraception and planned parenthood.

Science does indeed state human life begins at conception, the abortion debate like slavery is based not on human questions but personhood. I will not accept the argument that I should support abortion because women will do it anyway. People die from legal abortions all the time. Planned parenthood is evil through and through they are an organization that profits off of the blood of others as well as being eugenisists.

 

[Sky Dancer]

If womens hearts are changed they will not, if it is illegal alot of women and girls will look into why it is illegal and what happens to the children, as well when the scientific community says there is a human life present-conception.I am against the death penalty, as previously stated. So will self control.

Criminalizing abortion will not change any woman's heart. Yelling and picketing in front of Planned Parenthood will not change anyone's heart.

Having compassion will change women's hearts. Scientific information currently does not support the view that human life, human beings begin at conception. Sentience can be measured by recording higher brain wave function at 22 weeks. You can call any human tissue human life, but it isn't a human being.

You assume all unplanned pregancies are the result of a lack of self-control. I submit they are a result of the failure of contraception.

We've had illegal abortions. I remember them. They did not prevent women from choosing abortions, they just made it more likely the women would die from the unsafe procedures.

Legalized abortion has made the procedures safe.

If anti-choice advocates are serious about helping women they ought to be advocating for safe, affordable and effective contraception and planned parenthood.

Science does indeed state human life begins at conception, the abortion debate like slavery is based not on human questions but personhood. I will not accept the argument that I should support abortion because women will do it anyway. People die from legal abortions all the time. Planned parenthood is evil through and through they are an organization that profits off of the blood of others as well as being eugenisists.

Human beings are endowed with sentience. Sentience can be medically measured at 22 weeks, not before.

I support Planned Parenthood. They are about contraception and medical safety. I have friends who are nurses and nurse practitioners at Planned Parenthood. They are kind and compassionate women. You say you don't hate people, but clearly you do hate Planned Parenthood, the organization composed of people who work there, some of whom are my friends.

More women died of illegal unsafe procedures than they do now. Re-criminalizing abortion will cost women lives. I suppose it's only the fetal lives anti-choice fanatics care about.

I don't care whether you accept my argument or not. I have the right a different opinion from you. I follow my spiritual guidelines just like you do, it's just that you want to make YOURS everyone's.

So easy for you to divide the world into those who are evil, (see things differently from you) and those who are holy, who think like you.

Honestly, considering how contentious this issue is, we'vedone pretty well expressing our different views. We will never agree, and I support you in having your own views and voting your conscience. I will do the same.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Criminalizing abortion will not change any woman's heart. Yelling and picketing in front of Planned Parenthood will not change anyone's heart.

Having compassion will change women's hearts. Scientific information currently does not support the view that human life, human beings begin at conception. Sentience can be measured by recording higher brain wave function at 22 weeks.

You assume all unplanned pregancies are the result of a lack of self-control. I submit they are a result of the failure of contraception.

We've had illegal abortions. I remember them. They did not prevent women from choosing abortions, they just made it more likely the women would die from the unsafe procedures.

Legalized abortion has made the procedures safe.

If anti-choice advocates are serious about helping women they ought to be advocating for safe, affordable and effective contraception and planned parenthood.

Science does indeed state human life begins at conception, the abortion debate like slavery is based not on human questions but personhood. I will not accept the argument that I should support abortion because women will do it anyway. People die from legal abortions all the time. Planned parenthood is evil through and through they are an organization that profits off of the blood of others as well as being eugenisists.

Human beings are endowed with sentience. Sentience can be medically measured at 22 weeks, not before.

I support Planned Parenthood. They are about contraception and medical safety. I have friends who are nurses and nurse practitioners at Planned Parenthood. They are kind and compassionate women. You say you don't hate people, but clearly you do hate Planned Parenthood and people who work there, some of whom are my friends.

More women died of illegal unsafe procedures than they do now.

I don't care whether you accept my argument or not. I have the right a different opinion from you. I follow my spiritual guidelines just like you do, it's just that you want to make YOURS everyone's.

So easy for you to divide the world into those who are evil, (see things differently from you) and those who are holy, who think like you.

Humans go through different stages of development your argument is personhood which is a relative one. I do not hate people planned parenthood is an organization whose ideology is pure unadulerated evil. Evil acts and ideologies ensnare people.

 

[Sky Dancer]

It's interesting how this topic is such a passionate one. It really cuts through to the meaning of human life.

The closest I personally came to this issue, is that I helped drive a college roommate to NY state for an abortion. At the time, I was attending a Catholic college in KY. The women in my dorm were incredibly mean to this girl, who'd gotten herself pregnant. At that time, my spiritual beliefs were that the soul entered the fetus close to the time of birth. I did not think life begins at conception, like I do now.

I regretted my decision later, after I became a Buddhist. I too, believe life begins at conception, I just don't see that the medical information backs that view.

Take care Catholic. I'm not going to argue anymore.

sky

 

[Sky Dancer]

Science does indeed state human life begins at conception, the abortion debate like slavery is based not on human questions but personhood. I will not accept the argument that I should support abortion because women will do it anyway. People die from legal abortions all the time. Planned parenthood is evil through and through they are an organization that profits off of the blood of others as well as being eugenisists.

Human beings are endowed with sentience. Sentience can be medically measured at 22 weeks, not before.

I support Planned Parenthood. They are about contraception and medical safety. I have friends who are nurses and nurse practitioners at Planned Parenthood. They are kind and compassionate women. You say you don't hate people, but clearly you do hate Planned Parenthood and people who work there, some of whom are my friends.

More women died of illegal unsafe procedures than they do now.

I don't care whether you accept my argument or not. I have the right a different opinion from you. I follow my spiritual guidelines just like you do, it's just that you want to make YOURS everyone's.

So easy for you to divide the world into those who are evil, (see things differently from you) and those who are holy, who think like you.

Humans go through different stages of development your argument is personhood which is a relative one. I do not hate people planned parenthood is an organization whose ideology is pure unadulerated evil. Evil acts and ideologies ensnare people.

Planned Parenthood's ideology is contraception and planned parenthood. It is people who are service oriented nurse and nurse practitioners who work there. They are not evil. They are my friends.

When you demonize people who work at Planned Parenthood, you inadvertently flame hatred of the unbalanced mentally ill individuals in your camp who murder doctors and nurses.

Stop demonizing them please.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Human beings are endowed with sentience. Sentience can be medically measured at 22 weeks, not before.

I support Planned Parenthood. They are about contraception and medical safety. I have friends who are nurses and nurse practitioners at Planned Parenthood. They are kind and compassionate women. You say you don't hate people, but clearly you do hate Planned Parenthood and people who work there, some of whom are my friends.

More women died of illegal unsafe procedures than they do now.

I don't care whether you accept my argument or not. I have the right a different opinion from you. I follow my spiritual guidelines just like you do, it's just that you want to make YOURS everyone's.

So easy for you to divide the world into those who are evil, (see things differently from you) and those who are holy, who think like you.

Humans go through different stages of development your argument is personhood which is a relative one. I do not hate people planned parenthood is an organization whose ideology is pure unadulerated evil. Evil acts and ideologies ensnare people.

Planned Parenthood's ideology is contraception and planned parenthood. It is people who are service oriented nurse and nurse practitioners who work there. They are not evil. They are my friends.

Stop demonizing them please.

I am not demonizing your friends I am demonizing the ideology of whom they work for.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Humans go through different stages of development your argument is personhood which is a relative one. I do not hate people planned parenthood is an organization whose ideology is pure unadulerated evil. Evil acts and ideologies ensnare people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CJqPpTCYO4&feature=related

Planned Parenthood's ideology is contraception and planned parenthood. It is people who are service oriented nurse and nurse practitioners who work there. They are not evil. They are my friends.

Stop demonizing them please.

I am not demonizing your friends I am demonizing the ideology of whom they work for.

This is what you actually said:

"Evil acts and ideologies ensnare people." Giving women's annuals, screening for cancer, dispensing contraception, planning pregnancy is not evil ideology. Offering people legal choices is not evil.

I pray my friends who are brave enough to work for Planned Parenthood do not meet with violence at the hands of some in your camp who do espouse violence.

Show me something written from Planned Parenthood that highlights this evil ideology you so HATE. Here is their mission statement, it hardly seems evil to me.


"Planned Parenthood believes in the fundamental right of each individual, throughout the world, to manage his or her fertility, regardless of the individual's income, marital status, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, age, national origin, or residence. We believe that respect and value for diversity in all aspects of our organization are essential to our well-being. We believe that reproductive self-determination must be voluntary and preserve the individual's right to privacy. We further believe that such self-determination will contribute to an enhancement of the quality of life and strong family relationships."

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Planned Parenthood's ideology is contraception and planned parenthood. It is people who are service oriented nurse and nurse practitioners who work there. They are not evil. They are my friends.

Stop demonizing them please.

I am not demonizing your friends I am demonizing the ideology of whom they work for.

This is what you actually said:

"Evil acts and ideologies ensnare people." Giving women's annuals, screening for cancer, dispensing contraception, planning pregnancy is not evil ideology. Offering people legal choices is not evil.

I pray my friends who are brave enough to work for Planned Parenthood do not meet with violence at the hands of some in your camp who do espouse violence.

Show me something written from Planned Parenthood that highlights this evil ideology you so HATE. Here is their mission statement, it hardly seems evil to me.


"Planned Parenthood believes in the fundamental right of each individual, throughout the world, to manage his or her fertility, regardless of the individual's income, marital status, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, age, national origin, or residence. We believe that respect and value for diversity in all aspects of our organization are essential to our well-being. We believe that reproductive self-determination must be voluntary and preserve the individual's right to privacy. We further believe that such self-determination will contribute to an enhancement of the quality of life and strong family relationships."

I do not espouse violence and no true pro-lifer does, those people who espouse violence are pro-choice, they believe the answer is to kill or maime another human you deem the "problem." Planned Parenthood ideology is evil.

 

[Dr Grump]

Sky

You must realise that Lisa is a sheeple to the Catholic way of life. No point in arguing. Her mind and heart are closed. Irony in that a lot of what she espouses is evil...yet she hates evil...shrug

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Sky

You must realise that Lisa is a sheeple to the Catholic way of life. No point in arguing. Her mind and heart are closed. Irony in that a lot of what she espouses is evil...yet she hates evil...shrug

What exactly is it that I espouse is evil?