Abraham? Really?

[Indeependent]

According to Medrish, G-d offered the Torah to all the nations and only the Jews accepted it.

Also Bilaam, was a prophet. He was an evil prophet, but a non Jewish prophet nonetheless.

actually BILAAM ends up a good guy-------a gentile prophet good person------started out questionable---
he probably had a rough childhood

OMG!
You have zero idea of what you're talking about.
Stop "learning" Torah piecemeal.

I don't "learn" it at all -------what EVIL did Balaam end up doing?

Damn, girl, read the Torah for once in your life.
There are an over abundance of erudite English translations available.

?


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IRosie is a good person but her contextual knowledge of the Torah is near zero.

 

[CMike]

We can disagree with each other and still be civil.


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[Indeependent]

We can disagree with each other and still be civil.


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Getting facts wrong is not a disagreement, it's wrong.
Rosie can, and should, sit down and learn her inheritance (Torah).

 

[CMike]

We can disagree with each other and still be civil.


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Getting facts wrong is not a disagreement, it's wrong.
Rosie can, and should, sit down and learn her inheritance (Torah).

Embarrassing someone in public is compared to murder.


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[Indeependent]

We can disagree with each other and still be civil.


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Getting facts wrong is not a disagreement, it's wrong.
Rosie can, and should, sit down and learn her inheritance (Torah).

Embarrassing someone in public is compared to murder.


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Not on the Internet when we don't know their identity.
Rosie posts too many feel good, yet inaccurate, Torah facts.
She is a great asset and will be greater still.

 

[CMike]

We can disagree with each other and still be civil.


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Getting facts wrong is not a disagreement, it's wrong.
Rosie can, and should, sit down and learn her inheritance (Torah).

Embarrassing someone in public is compared to murder.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Not on the Internet when we don't know their identity.
Rosie posts too many feel good, yet inaccurate, Torah facts.
She is a great asset and will be greater still.

At least she is part of the discussion, that's how you learn things.


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[Indeependent]

We can disagree with each other and still be civil.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Getting facts wrong is not a disagreement, it's wrong.
Rosie can, and should, sit down and learn her inheritance (Torah).

Embarrassing someone in public is compared to murder.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Not on the Internet when we don't know their identity.
Rosie posts too many feel good, yet inaccurate, Torah facts.
She is a great asset and will be greater still.

At least she is part of the discussion, that's how you learn things.


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She didn't want to learn.
I kept linking to the verses and she wouldn't look them up until I had to post them.

 

[irosie91]

Why didnt God speak to Native Americans? Or Asians? Or Europeans?
Why didnt he speak to cro-magnum? He could have had us far more advanced

According to Medrish, G-d offered the Torah to all the nations and only the Jews accepted it.

Also Bilaam, was a prophet. He was an evil prophet, but a non Jewish prophet nonetheless.

actually BILAAM ends up a good guy-------a gentile prophet good person------started out questionable---
he probably had a rough childhood

OMG!
You have zero idea of what you're talking about.
Stop "learning" Torah piecemeal.

I don't "learn" it at all -------what EVIL did Balaam end up doing?

Bilaam was very greedy. He wanted to curse the Jews and get all that money and prestige.

HaShem stopped him from doing so.


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Bilaam had FREE CHOICE ----just like CAIN and ADAM had FREE CHOICE

 

[CMike]

According to Medrish, G-d offered the Torah to all the nations and only the Jews accepted it.

Also Bilaam, was a prophet. He was an evil prophet, but a non Jewish prophet nonetheless.

actually BILAAM ends up a good guy-------a gentile prophet good person------started out questionable---
he probably had a rough childhood

OMG!
You have zero idea of what you're talking about.
Stop "learning" Torah piecemeal.

I don't "learn" it at all -------what EVIL did Balaam end up doing?

Bilaam was very greedy. He wanted to curse the Jews and get all that money and prestige.

HaShem stopped him from doing so.


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Bilaam had FREE CHOICE ----just like CAIN and ADAM had FREE CHOICE

Bilaam told Balak that he must do what G-D tells him to do.

G-D told him not to curse the Jews. In fact, he told him to bless the Jews.

 

[Indeependent]

actually BILAAM ends up a good guy-------a gentile prophet good person------started out questionable---
he probably had a rough childhood

OMG!
You have zero idea of what you're talking about.
Stop "learning" Torah piecemeal.

I don't "learn" it at all -------what EVIL did Balaam end up doing?

Bilaam was very greedy. He wanted to curse the Jews and get all that money and prestige.

HaShem stopped him from doing so.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Bilaam had FREE CHOICE ----just like CAIN and ADAM had FREE CHOICE

Bilaam told Balak that he must do what G-D tells him to do.

G-D told him not to curse the Jews.
In fact, he told him to bless the Jews.

Incorrect on both sentences...
God told Bilaam he could go with the men.
God told Bilaam he could only say what God put in his mouth.

 

[Indeependent]

According to Medrish, G-d offered the Torah to all the nations and only the Jews accepted it.

Also Bilaam, was a prophet. He was an evil prophet, but a non Jewish prophet nonetheless.

actually BILAAM ends up a good guy-------a gentile prophet good person------started out questionable---
he probably had a rough childhood

OMG!
You have zero idea of what you're talking about.
Stop "learning" Torah piecemeal.

I don't "learn" it at all -------what EVIL did Balaam end up doing?

Bilaam was very greedy. He wanted to curse the Jews and get all that money and prestige.

HaShem stopped him from doing so.


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Bilaam had FREE CHOICE ----just like CAIN and ADAM had FREE CHOICE

Bilaam certainly did have free choice and got executed by Moshe Rabbainu for exersing it.

 

[shimon]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

This thread has gotten way off topic...Abraham means father of multitudes and indeed he did become the father of multitudes not just by the fact he fathered 8 sons but because he fathered ideals that spawned many great peoples and ideas...The Hebrew Scriptures leave all the blemishes and warts of individuals in there to show one that they were merely human and not perfect and to show us that in spite of those flaws that they strived to better themselves or their offspring in some manner...If people are going to take these stories and judge them in our times they are going to not understand and miss out because in their times their actions were acceptable and understood in the past but would be considered strange and barbaric in our age...

 

[CMike]

OMG!
You have zero idea of what you're talking about.
Stop "learning" Torah piecemeal.

I don't "learn" it at all -------what EVIL did Balaam end up doing?

Bilaam was very greedy. He wanted to curse the Jews and get all that money and prestige.

HaShem stopped him from doing so.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Bilaam had FREE CHOICE ----just like CAIN and ADAM had FREE CHOICE

Bilaam told Balak that he must do what G-D tells him to do.

G-D told him not to curse the Jews.
In fact, he told him to bless the Jews.

Incorrect on both sentences...
God told Bilaam he could go with the men.
God told Bilaam he could only say what God put in his mouth.

Which was to bless and not curse the Jews.


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[CMike]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

This thread has gotten way off topic...Abraham means father of multitudes and indeed he did become the father of multitudes not just by the fact he fathered 8 sons but because he fathered ideals that spawned many great peoples and ideas...The Hebrew Scriptures leave all the blemishes and warts of individuals in there to show one that they were merely human and not perfect and to show us that in spite of those flaws that they strived to better themselves or their offspring in some manner...If people are going to take these stories and judge them in our times they are going to not understand and miss out because in their times their actions were acceptable and understood in the past but would be considered strange and barbaric in our age...

Everyone was human and they all messed up.


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[shimon]

actually BILAAM ends up a good guy-------a gentile prophet good person------started out questionable---
he probably had a rough childhood

OMG!
You have zero idea of what you're talking about.
Stop "learning" Torah piecemeal.

I don't "learn" it at all -------what EVIL did Balaam end up doing?

Bilaam was very greedy. He wanted to curse the Jews and get all that money and prestige.

HaShem stopped him from doing so.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Bilaam had FREE CHOICE ----just like CAIN and ADAM had FREE CHOICE

Bilaam certainly did have free choice and got executed by Moshe Rabbainu for exersing it.

I don't want to interject here but I have an interesting point to make Balaam was from the Syriac area and rode a donkey...It should be noted that donkey is Hamor in Hebrew which could or could not mean something but we know Ha means the..But in Syriac Mor means Lord or Master . The interesting thing is that he made sacrifices in high places with Balak which were places of Baal worship which means Lord or Master... So just throwing this out for discussion Balaam rode his Lord and Master( Hamor the donkey..or Baal) to riches his whole life but he was forbidden to ride his Lord and Master to curse the Israelites because an angel( Messenger held a Sword( The word of Gd ) which stood in his way)... I would say it is a metaphor or allegory and not literal....The donkey represents Baal..The Sword Gd's Word and you cannot curse what Gd has blessed..The really funny thing is that Jesus who was cursed because he hung on a tree also was depicted as riding into Jerusalem on a donkey or Hamor meaning he rode in on Baal the Lord and Master therefore he definately was the cursed one and should not have been followed by anywho have paid attention to gods sWORD as written in the Jewish scriptures...There is something else that could be mentioned regarding the foot and the wall but hey that is not part of the conversation and if things are taken literally the true meanings are missed...

 

[shimon]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

This thread has gotten way off topic...Abraham means father of multitudes and indeed he did become the father of multitudes not just by the fact he fathered 8 sons but because he fathered ideals that spawned many great peoples and ideas...The Hebrew Scriptures leave all the blemishes and warts of individuals in there to show one that they were merely human and not perfect and to show us that in spite of those flaws that they strived to better themselves or their offspring in some manner...If people are going to take these stories and judge them in our times they are going to not understand and miss out because in their times their actions were acceptable and understood in the past but would be considered strange and barbaric in our age...

Everyone was human and they all messed up.


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Exactly...None of us are without flaws...

 

[irosie91]

for the record----the general population should ignore Shimon's sophistry----it makes no sense

 

[shimon]

Alright Irosie let's say you are correct but remember the whole story of Balaam makes no sense either unless it is an allegory..So For example Balaam was blinded by his greed or lust for money so that he could not see Gds word it was invisible to him there are many highly successful people today in the same state are there not in their persuit of money and riches instead of learning which is real riches..Further Shechum who raped Dinah was the son of Hamor( a donkey of a man His lust ) blinded him to the consequences of what he did to Dinah and yet his family went along with it thus earning his same fate...If these stories are to be taken literally they make no sense but if they are to be understood as teaching a morality lesson then they do..If no one can explain them properly then either they are buried and forgotten and the lessons one can get out of them are as well..There was a famed sage or teacher who used to sit on the floor with his students If while studying Torah one of his students brought forth something they did not know he was given a pillow to sit on for the day as he was higher up then the rest of them including the teacher...I just threw these things out for the sake of teaching and learning together if someone has a better explanation then they should come forward and in this way we all can solve the puzzle together...

 

[irosie91]

Alright Irosie let's say you are correct but remember the whole story of Balaam makes no sense either unless it is an allegory..So For example Balaam was blinded by his greed or lust for money so that he could not see Gds word it was invisible to him there are many highly successful people today in the same state are there not in their persuit of money and riches instead of learning which is real riches..Further Shechum who raped Dinah was the son of Hamor( a donkey of a man His lust ) blinded him to the consequences of what he did to Dinah and yet his family went along with it thus earning his same fate...If these stories are to be taken literally they make no sense but if they are to be understood as teaching a morality lesson then they do..If no one can explain them properly then either they are buried and forgotten and the lessons one can get out of them are as well..There was a famed sage or teacher who used to sit on the floor with his students If while studying Torah one of his students brought forth something they did not know he was given a pillow to sit on for the day as he was higher up then the rest of them including the teacher...I just threw these things out for the sake of teaching and learning together if someone has a better explanation then they should come forward and in this way we all can solve the puzzle together...

thanks shimon----no doubt the story of Balaam is an ALLEGORY------but you OVER-WORK it----
you really turned me off with your claim that HAMOUR-----really means HA MAR ----
(approx. the lord or master) -----hint-----what is the first letter of the word HAMOUR---
the one that means "donkey" (hint it is not the fifth letter of the alphabet)

 

[TNHarley]

If people are going to take these stories and judge them in our times they are going to not understand and miss out because in their times their actions were acceptable and understood in the past but would be considered strange and barbaric in our age...

So sins are a new trend?