Affirmative action, helpful or harmful?

[BS Filter]

Maybe that's why government is so incompetent. They are hiring based on race and gender instead of hiring who could do the best job at the best price.

I spent 40 years in the government

In the early years of affirmative action, people were promoted to positions they were not prepared for. Over time, more qualified minorities and women took those jobs.

Now, nobody even notices

Affirmative action was a success

I believe you spent 40 years in government. Defending the promotion of people for positions they were not qualified for just proves my point. Government is the most inefficient and wasteful way to run something as important as my healthcare.

You have to crawl before you can walk. Women, minorities, the handicapped had to be given opportunities
That they were not instantly successful does not negate the overall success of affirmative action

I believe in treating everyone the same, regardless of skin color. Way past time to bring this racism to an end. Let's live in the dream of MLK.

MLK was a supporter of affirmative action

Martin Luther King Jr. explicitly supported what's now called affirmative action: Jarvis DeBerry

You're reading something that isn't there. MLK supported job training, that's all. Nothing in there about preference over qualified people of a different skin tone. Better read that again.

 

[BS Filter]

I spent 40 years in the government

In the early years of affirmative action, people were promoted to positions they were not prepared for. Over time, more qualified minorities and women took those jobs.

Now, nobody even notices

Affirmative action was a success

I believe you spent 40 years in government. Defending the promotion of people for positions they were not qualified for just proves my point. Government is the most inefficient and wasteful way to run something as important as my healthcare.

You have to crawl before you can walk. Women, minorities, the handicapped had to be given opportunities
That they were not instantly successful does not negate the overall success of affirmative action

I believe in treating everyone the same, regardless of skin color. Way past time to bring this racism to an end. Let's live in the dream of MLK.

MLK was a supporter of affirmative action

"Whenever the issue of compensatory treatment for the Negro is raised, some of our friends recoil in horror. The Negro should be granted equality, they agree; but he should ask nothing more. On the surface, this appears reasonable, but it is not realistic."
-Martin Luther King

"A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for the Negro."
-MLK

Nothing there about preferring unqualified black people over qualified white people.

 

[IM2]

Since AA is not racial discrimination, there is no evidence.

ANALYSIS/OPINION:

Reverse discrimination is alive and well in the United States, judging by what transpired at the Supreme Court last Thursday and a bill that recently passed New York’s state assembly.

In a 4 to 3 ruling, the Court upheld the University of Texas’s affirmative action program to admit minorities over similarly or more qualified white applicants.

Abigail Noel Fisher, who is white, had sued over her rejection in 2008. Her case reached the Supreme Court in 2013, was remanded to the Fifth Circuit, and re-emerged this term.

Writing for the majority, Justice Kennedy denied her claim that the university’s race-conscious policy violates the Constitution’s Equal Protection Clause.

Supreme court validates reverse discrimination with University of Texas case

No such thing as reverse discrimination. Thats pretty much an oxymoron. Its either discrimination or its not.

Which is what we've been saying all along. AA is discrimination.

Hpw about you use the 2016 case? OK?
It is not. You are wrong.

Even though I provided a link that clearly explained when discrimination against a white was used by a college?

If you applied for a job, and the person doing the interview told you that you can't have the job because of the color of your skin, what would you call that?

After you answer that question, explain to me how your answer could possibly be different if the interviewer said the exact same thing to a white.

How about you use the 2016 case? OK?

The Supreme Court just ruled in favor of affirmative action in college admissions

"The US Supreme Court affirmed the Fifth Circuit's opinion in the Fisher v. University of Texas at Austin case, ruling that the "race-conscious admissions program in use at the time" is lawful under the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment. "

The Supreme Court just ruled in favor of affirmative action in college admissions

"The court ruled 4-3 in the university's favor, with Justices Anthony Kennedy, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Stephen Breyer, and Sonia Sotomayor delivering the opinion of the court, and Justices Clarence Thomas, Samuel Alito, and John Roberts dissenting.

Justice Elena Kagan recused herself from the case.

The Equal Protection Clause requires states to provide the same basic rights to all people in similar circumstances. "

Fisher was not discriminated based on race at UT. In this case it was found that students of color with higher scores than Fishers were also not admitted.

"For just one second, let’s forget that the University of Texas’ admission rate is 40 percent and that it’s on record only 5 people of color with grades worse than her were accepted and 42 white people with grades worse than her were accepted from her class that year. Let’s forget that there were 168 Black and Latino students who got the same grades or even better grades than her but were denied admission. Let’s forget all of that and look at the real issue and problem with the case: Fisher and others refusing to believe that people of color can be smarter than them and can earn admission solely on their brain and not their skin color.

There’s always been this rhetoric that people of color who are accepted into these schools are accepted because of their skin color due to Affirmative Action. They didn’t study for their ACTs, they didn’t get 4.0s, they weren’t involved in their high schools. They just applied and the admissions people looked at what race they were and said “She’s brown, let’s get that acceptance letter to her.” But the reality of the situation is if that spot was really yours, you would have gotten it."

Blame Your Own Mediocrity, Not People of Color, For Your College Admission Shortcomings | HuffPost

As to your question, it is an illegal question that cannot be asked in an interview. Nor can an employer tell you why you were not hired for any reason much less due to affirmative action. So if an employer does this, they can be sued for unfair employment practices. So these claims those like you are making are bunk if you base them on employment law and EEOC policy. Some of us here actually know what we are talking about relative to these matters Ray.

 

[BS Filter]

MLK was a supporter of affirmative action

Martin Luther King Jr. explicitly supported what's now called affirmative action: Jarvis DeBerry

IF he did, he was a racist.

He was a realist and recognized the game was stacked against blacks

I agree that the game was stacked against blacks. However, it isn't now. Black kids are dropping out of school at an alarming rate. Is that Whitey's fault?

 

[IM2]

I spent 40 years in the government

In the early years of affirmative action, people were promoted to positions they were not prepared for. Over time, more qualified minorities and women took those jobs.

Now, nobody even notices

Affirmative action was a success

I believe you spent 40 years in government. Defending the promotion of people for positions they were not qualified for just proves my point. Government is the most inefficient and wasteful way to run something as important as my healthcare.

You have to crawl before you can walk. Women, minorities, the handicapped had to be given opportunities
That they were not instantly successful does not negate the overall success of affirmative action

I believe in treating everyone the same, regardless of skin color. Way past time to bring this racism to an end. Let's live in the dream of MLK.

MLK was a supporter of affirmative action

Martin Luther King Jr. explicitly supported what's now called affirmative action: Jarvis DeBerry

You're reading something that isn't there. MLK supported job training, that's all. Nothing in there about preference over qualified people of a different skin tone. Better read that again.

Wrong.

The Right Has a Dream: Martin Luther King as an Opponent of Affirmative Action

"The exploitation of King's name, the distortion of his teachings for political gain, is an ugly development. The term "affirmative action" did not come into currency until after King's death "but it was King himself, as chair of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, who initiated the first successful national affirmative action campaign: "Operation Breadbasket."

In Atlanta, Philadelphia, Chicago and other cities, King staffers gathered data on the hiring patterns of corporations doing business in black communities, and called on companies to rectify disparities. "At present, SCLC has Operation Breadbasket functioning in some 12 cities, and the results have been remarkable," King wrote (quoted in Testament of Hope, James Washington, ed.), boasting of "800 new and upgraded jobs [and] several covenants with major industries."

King was well aware of the arguments used against affirmative action policies. As far back as 1964, he was writing in Why We Can't Wait: "Whenever the issue of compensatory treatment for the Negro is raised, some of our friends recoil in horror. The Negro should be granted equality, they agree; but he should ask nothing more. On the surface, this appears reasonable, but it is not realistic."

King supported affirmative action";type programs because he never confused the dream with American reality. As he put it, "A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for the Negro" to compete on a just and equal basis (quoted in Let the Trumpet Sound, by Stephen Oates)."

Martin Luther King and Affirmative Action

 

[IM2]

MLK was a supporter of affirmative action

Martin Luther King Jr. explicitly supported what's now called affirmative action: Jarvis DeBerry

IF he did, he was a racist.

He was a realist and recognized the game was stacked against blacks

I agree that the game was stacked against blacks. However, it isn't now. Black kids are dropping out of school at an alarming rate. Is that Whitey's fault?

Until you play the game as a black person you can't accurately make that comment. More blacks are going to college than ever before but whitey wants to talk about dropouts. Why is that?

King was no racist and you don't get to ignore American history to make him one.

 

[IM2]

I believe you spent 40 years in government. Defending the promotion of people for positions they were not qualified for just proves my point. Government is the most inefficient and wasteful way to run something as important as my healthcare.

You have to crawl before you can walk. Women, minorities, the handicapped had to be given opportunities
That they were not instantly successful does not negate the overall success of affirmative action

I believe in treating everyone the same, regardless of skin color. Way past time to bring this racism to an end. Let's live in the dream of MLK.

MLK was a supporter of affirmative action

"Whenever the issue of compensatory treatment for the Negro is raised, some of our friends recoil in horror. The Negro should be granted equality, they agree; but he should ask nothing more. On the surface, this appears reasonable, but it is not realistic."
-Martin Luther King

"A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for the Negro."
-MLK

Nothing there about preferring unqualified black people over qualified white people.

When will you understand that qualified blacks have been denied opportunities for unqualified whites?

 

[BS Filter]

I believe you spent 40 years in government. Defending the promotion of people for positions they were not qualified for just proves my point. Government is the most inefficient and wasteful way to run something as important as my healthcare.

You have to crawl before you can walk. Women, minorities, the handicapped had to be given opportunities
That they were not instantly successful does not negate the overall success of affirmative action

I believe in treating everyone the same, regardless of skin color. Way past time to bring this racism to an end. Let's live in the dream of MLK.

MLK was a supporter of affirmative action

Martin Luther King Jr. explicitly supported what's now called affirmative action: Jarvis DeBerry

You're reading something that isn't there. MLK supported job training, that's all. Nothing in there about preference over qualified people of a different skin tone. Better read that again.

Wrong.

The Right Has a Dream: Martin Luther King as an Opponent of Affirmative Action

"The exploitation of King's name, the distortion of his teachings for political gain, is an ugly development. The term "affirmative action" did not come into currency until after King's death "but it was King himself, as chair of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, who initiated the first successful national affirmative action campaign: "Operation Breadbasket."

In Atlanta, Philadelphia, Chicago and other cities, King staffers gathered data on the hiring patterns of corporations doing business in black communities, and called on companies to rectify disparities. "At present, SCLC has Operation Breadbasket functioning in some 12 cities, and the results have been remarkable," King wrote (quoted in Testament of Hope, James Washington, ed.), boasting of "800 new and upgraded jobs [and] several covenants with major industries."

King was well aware of the arguments used against affirmative action policies. As far back as 1964, he was writing in Why We Can't Wait: "Whenever the issue of compensatory treatment for the Negro is raised, some of our friends recoil in horror. The Negro should be granted equality, they agree; but he should ask nothing more. On the surface, this appears reasonable, but it is not realistic."

King supported affirmative action";type programs because he never confused the dream with American reality. As he put it, "A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for the Negro" to compete on a just and equal basis (quoted in Let the Trumpet Sound, by Stephen Oates)."

Martin Luther King and Affirmative Action

Wrong. Job training programs aren't AA. Sorry, but you're not going to hijack MLK. Next thing ya'll will try is tell me MLK was for same-sex marriage.

 

[BS Filter]

You have to crawl before you can walk. Women, minorities, the handicapped had to be given opportunities
That they were not instantly successful does not negate the overall success of affirmative action

I believe in treating everyone the same, regardless of skin color. Way past time to bring this racism to an end. Let's live in the dream of MLK.

MLK was a supporter of affirmative action

"Whenever the issue of compensatory treatment for the Negro is raised, some of our friends recoil in horror. The Negro should be granted equality, they agree; but he should ask nothing more. On the surface, this appears reasonable, but it is not realistic."
-Martin Luther King

"A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for the Negro."
-MLK

Nothing there about preferring unqualified black people over qualified white people.

When will you understand that qualified blacks have been denied opportunities for unqualified whites?

I understand. When will you understand that punishing white people today that are innocent is just as harmful as what happened in the past to black people?

 

[Doc1]

You have to crawl before you can walk. Women, minorities, the handicapped had to be given opportunities
That they were not instantly successful does not negate the overall success of affirmative action

I believe in treating everyone the same, regardless of skin color. Way past time to bring this racism to an end. Let's live in the dream of MLK.

MLK was a supporter of affirmative action

"Whenever the issue of compensatory treatment for the Negro is raised, some of our friends recoil in horror. The Negro should be granted equality, they agree; but he should ask nothing more. On the surface, this appears reasonable, but it is not realistic."
-Martin Luther King

"A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for the Negro."
-MLK

Nothing there about preferring unqualified black people over qualified white people.

When will you understand that qualified blacks have been denied opportunities for unqualified whites?

Y'all po black folk jus been SO aggrieved. Grow the fuck up. Quit whining about shit that never happened to you.

 

[mikegriffith1]

I support affirmative action for most career fields. I do not support it for fields like medicine and engineering.

Affirmative action has pulled many blacks into federal government and federal contracting jobs who would otherwise not be there and who would be earning far less. A good number of those blacks are open to voting Republican at the local and state level because they know that their property taxes could be directly impacted by a Democratic-controlled county and/or state government.

I do not believe in affirmative action for college admission, although I do support funding for community colleges with programs designed to help minorities achieve grades that will get them admitted into four-year colleges and universities.

 

[IM2]

Tilly has decided to laugh, and that in itself is funny.

White Women and Affirmative Action: Prime Beneficiaries and Opponents

According to the United States Labor Department, the primary beneficiaries of affirmative action are white women. The Department of Labor estimated that 6 million white women workers are in higher occupational classifications today than they would have been without affirmative action policies. This pays off in dividends in the labor force and to (mostly) white men and families. You can see how some of these benefits accrue to white women in the following infographic from the Center for American Progress (from 2012):

White Women and Affirmative Action: Prime Beneficiaries and Opponents -

First link--not found.

Secondly it's an opinion, not a fact. When jobs are given to white women, nobody knows why. It's not like employers sit there and say "We're hiring you because of government quotas."

Fake News.

Not fake news and it's fact. When jobs are given nobody knows why.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Tilly has decided to laugh, and that in itself is funny.

White Women and Affirmative Action: Prime Beneficiaries and Opponents

According to the United States Labor Department, the primary beneficiaries of affirmative action are white women. The Department of Labor estimated that 6 million white women workers are in higher occupational classifications today than they would have been without affirmative action policies. This pays off in dividends in the labor force and to (mostly) white men and families. You can see how some of these benefits accrue to white women in the following infographic from the Center for American Progress (from 2012):

White Women and Affirmative Action: Prime Beneficiaries and Opponents -

First link--not found.

Secondly it's an opinion, not a fact. When jobs are given to white women, nobody knows why. It's not like employers sit there and say "We're hiring you because of government quotas."

Fake News.

Not fake news and it's fact. When jobs are given nobody knows why.

Didn't I just say that?????

 

[Markle]

I don't care. You need to understand all this shit you and those like you talk ignore the truth of how whites gave themselves preferences and advantages by law for a minimum of 188 years. You cannot fix the damage of these 188 years in 53 especially when those rules made to address the problem have not been followed.

You're right, with radical racists like you around, the issue will never be resolved if you have your way.

You were born believing your situation is always the fault of others, that you're a victim and you'll NEVER surrender that status. You're proud of being a victim and wear it like a badge of honor.

 

[IM2]

Tilly has decided to laugh, and that in itself is funny.

White Women and Affirmative Action: Prime Beneficiaries and Opponents

According to the United States Labor Department, the primary beneficiaries of affirmative action are white women. The Department of Labor estimated that 6 million white women workers are in higher occupational classifications today than they would have been without affirmative action policies. This pays off in dividends in the labor force and to (mostly) white men and families. You can see how some of these benefits accrue to white women in the following infographic from the Center for American Progress (from 2012):

White Women and Affirmative Action: Prime Beneficiaries and Opponents -

First link--not found.

Secondly it's an opinion, not a fact. When jobs are given to white women, nobody knows why. It's not like employers sit there and say "We're hiring you because of government quotas."

Fake News.

We do not know the rationale for individual hiring actions

However, we do know that overall, more white women are in professional positions and executive positions that were once exclusively held by white males

Credit affirmative action

No, we don't know that. Again, no way to prove it one way or another.

We do know that.

White women benefit most from affirmative action — and are among its fiercest opponents

But the battle to erase race from the application review process for admission comes with an interesting paradox: "The primary beneficiaries of affirmative action have been Euro-American women," wrote Columbia University law professor Kimberlé Crenshaw for the University of Michigan Law Review in 2006.

A 1995 report by the California Senate Government Organization Committee found that white women held a majority of managerial jobs (57,250) compared with African Americans (10,500), Latinos (19,000), and Asian Americans (24,600) after the first two decades of affirmative action in the private sector. In 2015, a disproportionate representation of white women business owners set off concerns that New York state would not be able to bridge a racial gap among public contractors.

A 1995 report by the Department of Labor found that 6 million women overall had advances at their job that would not have been possible without affirmative action.

White women benefit most from affirmative action — and are among its fiercest opponents

State Study Tracks Diversity / Affirmative action cited for rise in female, minority bosses

The report was released on the eve of the first legislative hearing of a measure to end state affirmative action programs, and it sheds new light on an issue that has emerged as one of the most emotional and divisive in the state.

The study found that in 1993, the last year for which figures are available, major California firms employed 17,800 fewer white males in managerial positions than in 1975.

At the same time, 10,500 more African Americans, 19,300 more Latinos, 24,600 more Asian Americans and 57,250 more white women were holding managerial jobs.

State Study Tracks Diversity / Affirmative action cited for rise in female, minority bosses

Affirmative Action and What It Means for Women

Affirmative Action Works
Affirmative action programs make a difference. A government study showed that women made greater gains in employment at companies doing business with the federal government, and therefore subject to federal affirmative action requirements, than at other companies: female employment rose 15.2% at federal contractors, and only 2.2% elsewhere. The same study showed that federal contractors employed women at higher levels and in better paying jobs than other firms.

Many individual companies that have adopted affirmative action plans have demonstrated the impact on women. For example, after IBM set up its affirmative action program, its number of female officials and managers more than tripled in less than ten years. Corporate commitment to women and minorities enabled Corning to double its number of female and black employees and increase the proportion of women managers to 29%. Motorola has been rewarded with an increased representation of women and people of color in upper-level management. The company had two women and six persons of color as vice president in 1989, but boasts 33 female and 40 minority vice presidents today.

Affirmative action requirements have changed entire industries. In 1978, the Labor Department’s Office of Federal Contract Compliance (OFCCP) reviewed the employment practices of the five largest banks in Cleveland. Three years later, the percentage of women officials and managers at these institutions had risen more than 20%. When OFCCP first looked at the coal mining industry in 1973, there were no women coal miners. By 1980, 8.7% were women.

Litigation against police and fire departments has resulted in affirmative action plans that have produced dramatic increases in the employment of women (and minorities) in these fields as well. In 1983, for example, women made up 9.4% of the nation’s police, and 1% of firefighters. Sixteen years later, women are 16.9% of police, and 2.8% of firefighters.

Women-owned businesses, which have also benefitted from affirmative action requirements, have increased since 1987 by 103%. Today, there are nearly 9.1 million woman-owned businesses, employing over 27.5 million people.

Affirmative Action and What It Means for Women - NWLC

 

[Markle]

If you benefitted from a tilted playing field for centuries, just declare everything even Steven

The point of affirmative action was to open up opportunities .......it worked

Yes, it radically lowered standards. What a "great" accomplishment, you must be so proud.

 

[IM2]

Tilly has decided to laugh, and that in itself is funny.

White Women and Affirmative Action: Prime Beneficiaries and Opponents

According to the United States Labor Department, the primary beneficiaries of affirmative action are white women. The Department of Labor estimated that 6 million white women workers are in higher occupational classifications today than they would have been without affirmative action policies. This pays off in dividends in the labor force and to (mostly) white men and families. You can see how some of these benefits accrue to white women in the following infographic from the Center for American Progress (from 2012):

White Women and Affirmative Action: Prime Beneficiaries and Opponents -

First link--not found.

Secondly it's an opinion, not a fact. When jobs are given to white women, nobody knows why. It's not like employers sit there and say "We're hiring you because of government quotas."

Fake News.

Not fake news and it's fact. When jobs are given nobody knows why.

Didn't I just say that?????

No. You said when jobs are given to white women nobody knows why.

 

[Moonglow]

THOSE PEOPLE are not even embarrassed by it. That is all anyone ever needs to know about THOSE PEOPLE.

They have no clue that being patronized is racist and none but ourselves can emancipate our minds from MENTAL SLAVERY.

In other words they are nothing but mental slaves and nothing but AUTOMATIC VOTES for their original massas. The democrat party which thrives on their misery.

Patronizing has to be much worse than separate but equal and forcing Rosie the riveter back to the dishes....

 

[IM2]

If you benefitted from a tilted playing field for centuries, just declare everything even Steven

The point of affirmative action was to open up opportunities .......it worked

Yes, it radically lowered standards. What a "great" accomplishment, you must be so proud.

Standards were already low.

 

[IM2]

Tilly has decided to laugh, and that in itself is funny.

White Women and Affirmative Action: Prime Beneficiaries and Opponents

According to the United States Labor Department, the primary beneficiaries of affirmative action are white women. The Department of Labor estimated that 6 million white women workers are in higher occupational classifications today than they would have been without affirmative action policies. This pays off in dividends in the labor force and to (mostly) white men and families. You can see how some of these benefits accrue to white women in the following infographic from the Center for American Progress (from 2012):

White Women and Affirmative Action: Prime Beneficiaries and Opponents -

First link--not found.

Secondly it's an opinion, not a fact. When jobs are given to white women, nobody knows why. It's not like employers sit there and say "We're hiring you because of government quotas."

Fake News.

We do not know the rationale for individual hiring actions

However, we do know that overall, more white women are in professional positions and executive positions that were once exclusively held by white males

Credit affirmative action

No, we don't know that. Again, no way to prove it one way or another.

Plenty of proof

I have seen a regeneration of the workforce in the 40 years I have worked.
I started in a workforce where almost all the managers and executives were white, male, christians.

Now the workforce and top level positions are open to minorities, women, Asians, gays, handicapped

Thank Affirmative Action

They were always open to those people, however back in the day, most women were housewives with children and minorities didn't have the education to get those jobs. They worked in blue-collar labor like most other white people.

Businesses don't avoid hiring people because of their race or gender. If they avoid hiring people, it's because of the circumstance that comes with them.

For instance years ago I worked for a company owned by a Jewish guy. He avoided hiring young females for the office. He preferred older women. Why? Because of insurance costs. Delivering a baby was always expensive and medical care thereafter a cost as well, so he liked to hire older women who's children were in their teen years or adults themselves. He had nothing against having an office of young attractive females. It's just that he didn't want the expense and girls calling off all the time because of their children's illness or trouble in school, or otherwise decide to quit the job to be a full-time mother.

Ray your post is a lie. There is evidence that shows it be one. Stop making up shit you imagine because you don't want face the truth.