Altruistic Institutional Evil

[Flanders]

UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon (C-Span)
http://cdn.spectator.org/styles/art...ot 2016-02-07 at 4.17.52 PM.png?itok=6VEctNi7

In the wake of Shlomit Krigman’s murder, UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon asserted that it was “human nature to react to the occupation, which often serves as a potent incubator of hate and extremism.”

As long as its Secretary General can attribute the murder of an innocent young woman to human nature, the UN’s capacity to make meaningful moral judgments is profoundly impaired.

Moon’s allegations follow the mantra of leftists and the Palestinians themselves. Yet, it is Israel that has repeatedly attempted to negotiate a way out of the conflict. Palestinian Authority President Abbas has been offered more than the 95 percent of what Arafat asked for at Camp David and which Arafat rejected. Abbas also said what the Palestinians have repeatedly said, no.

Like Moon, much of the world subscribes to the notion that the Israelis are occupiers and, consequently, anything done to free oneself of occupation is justified. A just cause thus yields moral license. Or as the Stalinists put it, you can’t make an omelet without breaking eggs.

Jihadists kill in the name of Allah, an act which Rabbi Jonathan Sacks calls altruistic evil, . . .

Altruistic Evil in the West Bank
Wanton murder justified and accepted as an act of “human nature.”
By Abraham H. Miller – 2.8.16

Altruistic Evil in the West Bank

Rabbi Jonathan Sacks has it wrong. He would do better if he called it ‘altruistic institutional evil’. Jihadist killers are no more evil than serial killers. It is the institution that gives individual Jihadist killers justification and the bonus of martyrdom, while serial killers remain nothing more than murderers.

NOTE: Palestinian allegations, or cause if you are so inclined, have become an institution with some worldwide support.

If you separate killers into three categories —— institutional killers, serial killers, and hired killers —— you will see that institutional killers are the deadliest. The latter two can be captured and executed, but institutional killers go on for as long as the institution lives on. In short: You cannot capture and execute an institution.

The best you can hope for is to destroy the institution. The United Nations is the institution in this case.

Sad to say, even if you capture and execute the current secretary-general, he will be replaced by others just like him ad infinitum.

Incidentally, shutting down institutions funded by taxation is as easy as pie. Shutdown the United Nations and the Palestinian institution follows. The ruling classes of every United Nations member state sure as hell will not fund their killing with their own money. They tax the very people the United Nations victimizes.

Finally, Pope Francis is a big supporter of the United Nations. Shutting down the United Nations places two of the world’s major institutions in the position of fending for themselves —— Roman Catholicism and Islam.

 

[Flanders]

Finally, Pope Francis is a big supporter of the United Nations.

Whatever this guy is, Donald Trump should be thankful he is not:

http://www.newsmax.com/CMSPages/Get...d442660ae47d&SiteName=Newsmax&maxsidesize=600

U.S. Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump is "not Christian" because of his views on immigration, Pope Francis said on his way back to Rome from Mexico.​

Pope: Trump Is 'Not Christian'
Thursday, 18 Feb 2016 12:24 PM

Pope: Trump Is 'Not Christian'​

 

[montelatici]

The French Resistance were institutional killers par excellence. Good point.

 

[Sally]

UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon (C-Span)
http://cdn.spectator.org/styles/article_page/s3/Screen Shot 2016-02-07 at 4.17.52 PM.png?itok=6VEctNi7

In the wake of Shlomit Krigman’s murder, UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon asserted that it was “human nature to react to the occupation, which often serves as a potent incubator of hate and extremism.”

As long as its Secretary General can attribute the murder of an innocent young woman to human nature, the UN’s capacity to make meaningful moral judgments is profoundly impaired.

Moon’s allegations follow the mantra of leftists and the Palestinians themselves. Yet, it is Israel that has repeatedly attempted to negotiate a way out of the conflict. Palestinian Authority President Abbas has been offered more than the 95 percent of what Arafat asked for at Camp David and which Arafat rejected. Abbas also said what the Palestinians have repeatedly said, no.

Like Moon, much of the world subscribes to the notion that the Israelis are occupiers and, consequently, anything done to free oneself of occupation is justified. A just cause thus yields moral license. Or as the Stalinists put it, you can’t make an omelet without breaking eggs.

Jihadists kill in the name of Allah, an act which Rabbi Jonathan Sacks calls altruistic evil, . . .

Altruistic Evil in the West Bank
Wanton murder justified and accepted as an act of “human nature.”
By Abraham H. Miller – 2.8.16

Altruistic Evil in the West Bank

Rabbi Jonathan Sacks has it wrong. He would do better if he called it ‘altruistic institutional evil’. Jihadist killers are no more evil than serial killers. It is the institution that gives individual Jihadist killers justification and the bonus of martyrdom, while serial killers remain nothing more than murderers.

NOTE: Palestinian allegations, or cause if you are so inclined, have become an institution with some worldwide support.

If you separate killers into three categories —— institutional killers, serial killers, and hired killers —— you will see that institutional killers are the deadliest. The latter two can be captured and executed, but institutional killers go on for as long as the institution lives on. In short: You cannot capture and execute an institution.

The best you can hope for is to destroy the institution. The United Nations is the institution in this case.

Sad to say, even if you capture and execute the current secretary-general, he will be replaced by others just like him ad infinitum.

Incidentally, shutting down institutions funded by taxation is as easy as pie. Shutdown the United Nations and the Palestinian institution follows. The ruling classes of every United Nations member state sure as hell will not fund their killing with their own money. They tax the very people the United Nations victimizes.

Finally, Pope Francis is a big supporter of the United Nations. Shutting down the United Nations places two of the world’s major institutions in the position of fending for themselves —— Roman Catholicism and Islam.

The Secretary General has already admitted that the United Nations is anti-Semitic. Being Asian himself, you would think that he would pay a little more attention to the occupied people in Tibet.

Introduction to Tibet | Free Tibet

 

[Flanders]

The Secretary General has already admitted that the United Nations is anti-Semitic. Being Asian himself, you would think that he would pay a little more attention to the occupied people in Tibet.

To Sally: Ban Ki-moon is the same as every one of his predecessors. They all speak for ruling classes everywhere. The ruling class in China just happen to be Communists; so he speaks for them not for Tibetan monks.

I share your concern for an enslaved people but Communism is the problem —— the United Nations is not the solution. Whatever brings in the most money is the UN’s guiding principle. Muslims in the Middle East and Communists in China are the UN’s valued customers. That is why criticizing the UN for not doing anything always sickens me. Giving United Nations parasites more authority only enriches the bums.

Nobody who works for the United Nations gives a damn about anything except getting money from member states. The people working for the United Nations should never be confused with the staffs attached to foreign governments stationed in Manhattan. Paychecks are issued to United Nations employees by the United Nation. They all love to act as though they are building a better world when they actually work for the most lucrative charity racket ever conceived by parasites.

NOTE: It can be said that America’s initial form of government was the only new form of government ever codified after thousands of years of failed governments. It can also be said that the United Nations is the only new form of charity racket ever contrived by parasites in mankind’s long history.

 

[montelatici]

1. If Muslims in the Middle East had any power over the U.N., Israel would have not been created.
2. There was nothing new about America's "initial" form of Government. The Roman Republic, the Republic of Venice, the Republic of Genoa, the Republic of San Marino and many others pre-date the U.S.

 

[Flanders]

1. If Muslims in the Middle East had any power over the U.N., Israel would have not been created.

To montelatici: It was a different world in 1948. America had a monopoly on the Atomic bomb. The UN was only three years old. There were 58 member states in 1948. Today the number is 193.

Clearly, Muslim countries did not have the political power they have today. Most of that power evolved from Muslims learning they only have to threaten to walk out of the UN to get whatever they want. I rest my case on Iran.

NOTE: It comes down to seceding as did our Confederate States who had every Right to secede. The question is this: Will America and its allies go to war to stop Muslims from seceding? Russia and China have no reason to secede, but they can because they are too powerful to stop. The Muslim world is another matter.

2. There was nothing new about America's "initial" form of Government. The Roman Republic, the Republic of Venice, the Republic of Genoa, the Republic of San Marino and many others pre-date the U.S.

To montelatici: Not so. The US Constitution codified the size of government by enumerating the things the federal government could do. No other country in history formed such a government.

Obviously, federal government parasites did more than the Constitution allows without bothering to amend the Constitution.

 

[montelatici]

No wonder the U.S. education system is ranked so low among developed nations.

There were dozens of republics that had republican constitutions that limited the powers of the government well before the U.S. adopted its constitution. The best known of the early ones, adopted in 450 BC, were the Twelve Tablets of the Roman Republic which contained the constitution of the Roman Republic.

The Twelve Tablets of the Roman Republic enumerated and limited the powers the government.

The first Constitution of the Republic of San Marino also limits the power of the Republic over its citizens, adopted in 1600.

http://www.icar.beniculturali.it/biblio/pdf/rsm_stat_600/01_RSM_stat_600.pdf

Besides, the U.S. Constitution was closely modeled on the constitution of the Republic of Venice.

" Later, when the Virginia and the Federal constitutions were drafted, the Venetian experience was drawn upon. As a result, governors of Virginia and every other state along with the American president have one thing in common with the Doge of Venice, to faithfully uphold a constitution containing a system of “checks and balances” designed to overcome potential temptations for excessive power. That system whereby the republican magistrate, the Doge, was checked and counterbalanced by a Senate, a Council of Ten, and a Great Council, produced a stable government for more than a millennium without once resorting to dictatorship. During the two hundred years of the American Constitution, the unruly forces of democracy have been harnessed through the adaptation of the Venetian invention of the separation of governmental powers in the guise of a Senate, a House of Representatives, a President, and a Supreme Court. "

The Virginians and the Veneto | VQR Online

 

[Flanders]

No wonder the U.S. education system is ranked so low among developed nations.

There were dozens of republics that had republican constitutions that limited the powers of the government well before the U.S. adopted its constitution. The best known of the early ones, adopted in 450 BC, were the Twelve Tablets of the Roman Republic which contained the constitution of the Roman Republic.

The Twelve Tablets of the Roman Republic enumerated and limited the powers the government.

The first Constitution of the Republic of San Marino also limits the power of the Republic over its citizens, adopted in 1600.

http://www.icar.beniculturali.it/biblio/pdf/rsm_stat_600/01_RSM_stat_600.pdf

Besides, the U.S. Constitution was closely modeled on the constitution of the Republic of Venice.

" Later, when the Virginia and the Federal constitutions were drafted, the Venetian experience was drawn upon. As a result, governors of Virginia and every other state along with the American president have one thing in common with the Doge of Venice, to faithfully uphold a constitution containing a system of “checks and balances” designed to overcome potential temptations for excessive power. That system whereby the republican magistrate, the Doge, was checked and counterbalanced by a Senate, a Council of Ten, and a Great Council, produced a stable government for more than a millennium without once resorting to dictatorship. During the two hundred years of the American Constitution, the unruly forces of democracy have been harnessed through the adaptation of the Venetian invention of the separation of governmental powers in the guise of a Senate, a House of Representatives, a President, and a Supreme Court. "

The Virginians and the Veneto | VQR Online

To montelatici: You are stretching your examples too far. I’m surprised you did not give the Magna Carta credit for our republic!

None of your examples had a Bill of Rights that came close to our original ten. (Since then, our Bill Of Rights has morphed into a half-ass government Bill of Rights.) So I’d like hear a more detailed comparison to freedom from government in those societies you cite. Specifically, private property Rights, and our First and Second Amendments.

I will reconsider if you can lay out how your ‘governments’ included individual liberties as effectively as did our original form of government.

 

[Flanders]

Whatever this guy is, Donald Trump should be thankful he is not:

The Motor-Mouth from Rome stepped in it big time this time.

Pope rebuffed after attack on Trump, immigration stance
Posted By Douglas Ernst On 02/18/2016 @ 8:23 pm

Pope rebuffed after attack on Trump, immigration stance​

Frankie must think Americans are stupid. He cleverly tried to cover his ass with a disclaimer when he said he was not interfering in American politics. So exactly what the hell was he doing when he said Trump was not a Christian? Playing word games with building walls to keep illegal immigrants out did not fool anybody. He was telling Christians not to vote for Donald Trump? Even worse, the Motor-Mouth from Rome was promoting the United Nations agenda for open-borders. He can preach that bullshit from his balcony in the Vatican, but there is a price to pay when he sticks his unwanted nose into American politics. See video:

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/47633857320

My prayer is that Congress will stop all of those tax dollars the Catholic Church gets; most especially the money going to charity hustlers to help “immigrants and refugees” comfortably settle down in the welfare state.

Finally, I would like to know if any part of Catholic League President Bill Donohue’s income comes directly or indirectly from tax dollars in violation of the First Amendment. Charitable tax deductions have to be taken into account; i.e., everybody is forced to pick up that tab regardless of their beliefs.

 

[montelatici]

I see, you have led a sheltered life educationally.

It would take a treatise to present all the examples, but if we look at the Republic of Venice, we see that the they invented the idea of a patent:

"1474: Venice passes the first-known written law to grant and protect patents."

March 19, 1474: Venice Enacts a Patently Original Idea

Property rights were obviously the cornerstone of the Venetian constitution:

"Venice was the most successful of the North Italian city states in creating and maintaining a republic dominated by a merchant capitalist elite. Thanks to its geographic position and willingness to defend itself, it was able to guarantee its autonomy and freedom from exactions by feudal landlords and monarchs.

It created political and legal institutions which guaranteed property rights and the enforceability of contracts"

The Venetian Republic

The Venetian Republic guaranteed civil liberties to all the people of the Republic, slavery was illegal. That's why the Venetian navy, with free citizens as rowers that doubled as naval infantry, was more effective than the Ottoman (Turkish) navy that used slaves as oarsmen . Conversely, the U.S. constitution denied civil rights to 25% of the people who were slaves.

The Corpus Iuris (laws/constitution) is the bill of citizen rights, if you want you can translate it via google.

Leggi Serenissima Repubblica di Venezia

 

[montelatici]

Whatever this guy is, Donald Trump should be thankful he is not:

The Motor-Mouth from Rome stepped in it big time this time.

Pope rebuffed after attack on Trump, immigration stance
Posted By Douglas Ernst On 02/18/2016 @ 8:23 pm

Pope rebuffed after attack on Trump, immigration stance​

Frankie must think Americans are stupid. He cleverly tried to cover his ass with a disclaimer when he said he was not interfering in American politics. So exactly what the hell was he doing when he said Trump was not a Christian? Playing word games with building walls to keep illegal immigrants out did not fool anybody. He was telling Christians not to vote for Donald Trump? Even worse, the Motor-Mouth from Rome was promoting the United Nations agenda for open-borders. He can preach that bullshit from his balcony in the Vatican, but there is a price to pay when he sticks his unwanted nose into American politics. See video:

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/47633857320

My prayer is that Congress will stop all of those tax dollars the Catholic Church gets; most especially the money going to charity hustlers to help “immigrants and refugees” comfortably settle down in the welfare state.

Finally, I would like to know if any part of Catholic League President Bill Donohue’s income comes directly or indirectly from tax dollars in violation of the First Amendment. Charitable tax deductions have to be taken into account; i.e., everybody is forced to pick up that tab regardless of their beliefs.

He said that a person would that build walls to separate people rather than bridges to join people together is not Christian. That is basic Christian teaching, it is the Gospel. If you are not a Christian, that's your problem.

I don't think the Pope is particularly worried what ignorant anti-Catholic punks do or say. Much more powerful people learned to regret crossing the Pope. Like the guy who asked how many divisions the pope had.

And, talking about motormouths.

 

[Flanders]

I see, you have led a sheltered life educationally.

It would take a treatise to present all the examples, but if we look at the Republic of Venice, we see that the they invented the idea of a patent:

"1474: Venice passes the first-known written law to grant and protect patents."
March 19, 1474: Venice Enacts a Patently Original Idea

Property rights were obviously the cornerstone of the Venetian constitution:

"Venice was the most successful of the North Italian city states in creating and maintaining a republic dominated by a merchant capitalist elite. Thanks to its geographic position and willingness to defend itself, it was able to guarantee its autonomy and freedom from exactions by feudal landlords and monarchs.

It created political and legal institutions which guaranteed property rights and the enforceability of contracts"

The Venetian Republic

The Venetian Republic guaranteed civil liberties to all the people of the Republic, slavery was illegal. That's why the Venetian navy, with free citizens as rowers that doubled as naval infantry, was more effective than the Ottoman (Turkish) navy that used slaves as oarsmen . Conversely, the U.S. constitution denied civil rights to 25% of the people who were slaves.

The Corpus Iuris (laws/constitution) is the bill of citizen rights, if you want you can translate it via google.

Leggi Serenissima Repubblica di Venezia

To montelatici: Your argument lacks substance —— a sure sign of a weak intellect.

Talking points does not cut it. Every society had some form of patent Rights, in addition to property Rights for certain people. None gave the people the Right to arm themselves for the sole purpose of defending against government tyranny. Nor did any of your governments guarantee freedom of religion, or freedom of speech to everyone.

NOTE: Not having freedom of speech throughout history was important at the time of America’s founding. That is why America’s brilliant Founders included freedom of speech long before modern technology gave us mass communications.

p.s. You will have to do better if you expect me to continue with this topic.

 

[Flanders]

He said that a person would that build walls to separate people rather than bridges to join people together is not Christian.

To montelatici: Here’s one wall Trump should build:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ca...9/gary_varvel_gary_varvel_for_02192016_5_.jpg

That is basic Christian teaching, it is the Gospel.

To montelatici: I do not debate the Bible, but I will admit that I am partial to:

The whole history of these books [the Gospels] is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute enquiry into it: and such tricks have been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills. Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, January 24, 1814​

If you are not a Christian, that's your problem.

To montelatici: It is your problem. I consider it a blessing.

Just for your edification see this thread:

The Man With The Gun

I don't think the Pope is particularly worried what ignorant anti-Catholic punks do or say. Much more powerful people learned to regret crossing the Pope.

To montelatici: Not when they could fight back.

Or were tricked or forced into fight for the Catholic Church. That is not going to happen when Americans are very careful not to fight for one religion against another. A free people gain nothing when one priesthood replaces another. Americans should only fight for their country, and that ain’t the Roman Catholic Church.

Like the guy who asked how many divisions the pope had.

To montelatici: Stalin gets the credit, but he never said it; nevertheless, he was not defeated by the pope.

Parenthetically, the Catholic Church got its ass kicked by Muslims in the past. It might happen again when billions refuse to be suckered into fighting for one side or the other. The trick is to stand back and watch Catholics and Muslims kill each other. Indeed, the faithful in the other Christian sects would be fools to fight for the Roman Catholic Church.

Incidentally, if you want to suck up to your pope you can do in a thread of your own.

And, talking about motormouths.

To montelatici: My, my. Did my definition of your pope insult you? I hope so.

And you might try reading your own mountain of crap.

 

[montelatici]

I see, you have led a sheltered life educationally.

It would take a treatise to present all the examples, but if we look at the Republic of Venice, we see that the they invented the idea of a patent:

"1474: Venice passes the first-known written law to grant and protect patents."
March 19, 1474: Venice Enacts a Patently Original Idea

Property rights were obviously the cornerstone of the Venetian constitution:

"Venice was the most successful of the North Italian city states in creating and maintaining a republic dominated by a merchant capitalist elite. Thanks to its geographic position and willingness to defend itself, it was able to guarantee its autonomy and freedom from exactions by feudal landlords and monarchs.

It created political and legal institutions which guaranteed property rights and the enforceability of contracts"

The Venetian Republic

The Venetian Republic guaranteed civil liberties to all the people of the Republic, slavery was illegal. That's why the Venetian navy, with free citizens as rowers that doubled as naval infantry, was more effective than the Ottoman (Turkish) navy that used slaves as oarsmen . Conversely, the U.S. constitution denied civil rights to 25% of the people who were slaves.

The Corpus Iuris (laws/constitution) is the bill of citizen rights, if you want you can translate it via google.

Leggi Serenissima Repubblica di Venezia

To montelatici: Your argument lacks substance —— a sure sign of a weak intellect.

Talking points does not cut it. Every society had some form of patent Rights, in addition to property Rights for certain people. None gave the people the Right to arm themselves for the sole purpose of defending against government tyranny. Nor did any of your governments guarantee freedom of religion, or freedom of speech to everyone.

NOTE: Not having freedom of speech throughout history was important at the time of America’s founding. That is why America’s brilliant Founders included freedom of speech long before modern technology gave us mass communications.

p.s. You will have to do better if you expect me to continue with this topic.

Oh dear, hit a nerve.

1. I have forgotten more than you will ever learn, projecting your inadequacy is hilarious (and transparent).
2. Since the Republic of Venice established the first law protecting patents, you are simply full of crap.
3. All Venetians had property rights. Only white people had property rights in the U.S.
4. Your right-wing interpretation of the second amendment is ludicrous. Go take over a gift shop at some national park and see what happens.
5. As far as religious freedom in the Venetian Republic , I take it you haven't seen a performance of the Merchant of Venice.

or the Livornine Laws of 1593. Freedom of religion was not a new thing in the late 18th century.

"A further invitation was issued by Ferdinand I on June 10, 1593, offering asylum to all Levantines, Spanish, Portugese, Germans and Italians. The majority of Ferdinand's invitation articles were directed to the Jews who had lived as Christians in Spain and Portugal. The charter – referred to as "Livornina" – guaranteed full religious liberty, amnesty for crimes previously committed, the opportunity for "Marranos" to return to Judaism unmolested, a large exemption from taxation, and commercial freedom."

Livorno Jewish History Tour | Jewish Virtual Library

As far as Freedom of Speech, the French "Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen" grants freedom of speech in Article 10 and predates the 1st amendment which was part of the U.S. Bill of Rights signed in 1791.

"Approved by the National Assembly of France, August 26, 1789

The representatives of the French people, organized as a National Assembly, believing that the ignorance, neglect, or contempt of the rights of man are the sole cause of public calamities and of the corruption of governments, have determined to set forth in a solemn declaration the natural, unalienable, and sacred rights of man, in order that this declaration, being constantly before all the members of the Social body, shall remind them continually of their rights and duties; in order that the acts of the legislative power, as well as those of the executive power, may be compared at any moment with the objects and purposes of all political institutions and may thus be more respected, and, lastly, in order that the grievances of the citizens, based hereafter upon simple and incontestable principles, shall tend to the maintenance of the constitution and redound to the happiness of all. Therefore the National Assembly recognizes and proclaims, in the presence and under the auspices of the Supreme Being, the following rights of man and of the citizen:

Articles:
1. Men are born and remain free and equal in rights. Social distinctions may be founded only upon the general good.

2. The aim of all political association is the preservation of the natural and imprescriptible rights of man. These rights are liberty, property, security, and resistance to oppression.

3. The principle of all sovereignty resides essentially in the nation. No body nor individual may exercise any authority which does not proceed directly from the nation.

4. Liberty consists in the freedom to do everything which injures no one else; hence the exercise of the natural rights of each man has no limits except those which assure to the other members of the society the enjoyment of the same rights. These limits can only be determined by law.

5. Law can only prohibit such actions as are hurtful to society. Nothing may be prevented which is not forbidden by law, and no one may be forced to do anything not provided for by law.

6. Law is the expression of the general will. Every citizen has a right to participate personally, or through his representative, in its foundation. It must be the same for all, whether it protects or punishes. All citizens, being equal in the eyes of the law, are equally eligible to all dignities and to all public positions and occupations, according to their abilities, and without distinction except that of their virtues and talents.

7. No person shall be accused, arrested, or imprisoned except in the cases and according to the forms prescribed by law. Any one soliciting, transmitting, executing, or causing to be executed, any arbitrary order, shall be punished. But any citizen summoned or arrested in virtue of the law shall submit without delay, as resistance constitutes an offense.

8. The law shall provide for such punishments only as are strictly and obviously necessary, and no one shall suffer punishment except it be legally inflicted in virtue of a law passed and promulgated before the commission of the offense.

9. As all persons are held innocent until they shall have been declared guilty, if arrest shall be deemed indispensable, all harshness not essential to the securing of the prisoner's person shall be severely repressed by law.

10. No one shall be disquieted on account of his opinions, including his religious views, provided their manifestation does not disturb the public order established by law.

11. The free communication of ideas and opinions is one of the most precious of the rights of man. Every citizen may, accordingly, speak, write, and print with freedom, but shall be responsible for such abuses of this freedom as shall be defined by law.

12. The security of the rights of man and of the citizen requires public military forces. These forces are, therefore, established for the good of all and not for the personal advantage of those to whom they shall be intrusted.

13. A common contribution is essential for the maintenance of the public forces and for the cost of administration. This should be equitably distributed among all the citizens in proportion to their means.

14. All the citizens have a right to decide, either personally or by their representatives, as to the necessity of the public contribution; to grant this freely; to know to what uses it is put; and to fix the proportion, the mode of assessment and of collection and the duration of the taxes.

15. Society has the right to require of every public agent an account of his administration.

16. A society in which the observance of the law is not assured, nor the separation of powers defined, has no constitution at all.

17. Since property is an inviolable and sacred right, no one shall be deprived thereof except where public necessity, legally determined, shall clearly demand it, and then only on condition that the owner shall have been previously and equitably indemnified."

Avalon Project - Declaration of the Rights of Man - 1789


Attack On Pope Francis Could Sink Donald Trump According To New Poll
Attack On Pope Francis Could Sink Donald Trump According To New Poll

 

[Flanders]

To montelatici: Reciting the history of a specific philosophy is a waste of time. You might just as well recite the history of the longest running failed form of government —— democracy. Better still, recite the history of the philosophy behind the Ten Commandments —— it has been around longer. America’s founders gave the world a working form of government that incorporated all of the talking points you cite.

This is the only thing you said that merits a response:

4. Your right-wing interpretation of the second amendment is ludicrous. Go take over a gift shop at some national park and see what happens.

My interpretation is in good company:

Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty, teeth and keystone under independence. The church, the plow, the prairie wagon and citizens' firearms are indelibly related. From the hour the pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurrences and tendencies prove that, to ensure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable. Every corner of this land knows firearms, and more than 99 and 99/100 percent of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil influence. They deserve a place of honor with all that's good. When firearms go, all goes. We need them every hour. George Washington's address to the second session of the First U.S. Congress

XXXXX​

The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it. Thomas Jefferson

XXXXX​

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. Thomas Jefferson

XXXXX​

The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that ... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed. Thomas Jefferson

XXXXX​

What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. Thomas Jefferson to James Madison

XXXXX​

A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercise, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks. Thomas Jefferson's advice to his 15-year-old nephew

XXXXX​

I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them. George Mason, Co-author of the Second Amendment, during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788

XXXXX​

And we do each of us, for ourselves respectively, promise and engage to keep a good firelock in proper order, & to furnish ourselves as soon as possible with, & always keep by us, one pound of gunpowder, four pounds of lead, one dozen gunflints, & a pair of bullet moulds, with a cartouch box, or powder horn, and bag for balls. George Mason

XXXXX​

Among the natural rights of the colonists are these: first, a right to life, secondly to liberty, thirdly to property; together with the right to defend them in the best manner they can. Samuel Adams

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"If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." Samuel Adams

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Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense. John Adams

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They tell us that we are weak -- unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Three million people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Patrick Henry

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Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined. The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun. Patrick Henry

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The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms like laws discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. The balance of power is the scale of peace. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside. Horrid mischief would ensue were one half the world deprived of the use of them; the weak would become a prey to the strong. Thomas Paine

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It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government. Thomas Paine

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"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword, because the whole of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops." Noah Webster

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The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them. Joseph Story

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The right of the citizens to bear arms is just one more guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against the tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proved to be always possible. - Vice President Hubert H. Humphrey

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If such a government cannot be overthrown otherwise than by dynamite, then thank God for dynamite! Mark Twain

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Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable. JFK

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This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it. Abraham Lincoln ​

Your view can be stated in one sentence. Only agents of the government can have guns.

 

[Sally]

Whatever this guy is, Donald Trump should be thankful he is not:

The Motor-Mouth from Rome stepped in it big time this time.

Pope rebuffed after attack on Trump, immigration stance
Posted By Douglas Ernst On 02/18/2016 @ 8:23 pm

Pope rebuffed after attack on Trump, immigration stance​

Frankie must think Americans are stupid. He cleverly tried to cover his ass with a disclaimer when he said he was not interfering in American politics. So exactly what the hell was he doing when he said Trump was not a Christian? Playing word games with building walls to keep illegal immigrants out did not fool anybody. He was telling Christians not to vote for Donald Trump? Even worse, the Motor-Mouth from Rome was promoting the United Nations agenda for open-borders. He can preach that bullshit from his balcony in the Vatican, but there is a price to pay when he sticks his unwanted nose into American politics. See video:

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/47633857320

My prayer is that Congress will stop all of those tax dollars the Catholic Church gets; most especially the money going to charity hustlers to help “immigrants and refugees” comfortably settle down in the welfare state.

Finally, I would like to know if any part of Catholic League President Bill Donohue’s income comes directly or indirectly from tax dollars in violation of the First Amendment. Charitable tax deductions have to be taken into account; i.e., everybody is forced to pick up that tab regardless of their beliefs.

Actually it would have been better for the Pope, instead of thinking of open borders, to say that the people in Mexico and Central and South America should start helping themselves instead of trying to get into another country. Why is it that the Northern Hemisphere (Canada and the U.S. ) is way ahead of so many of the countries below the border. People have been coming from South of our border for years and years when they should have been trying to make their own countries better.

As sad as it is to see people struggling in many places of the world, the part of the world which is doing so much better economically should not have to constantly support those who don't even try harder to make their own countries a place which would give them opportunities to have a fulfilling life for themselves and their families.

There are many struggling people in our own society who should be the ones to be helped the most. Maybe Pope Francis can sell some of the riches of the church to help the people whose rights to cross borders seem to be up most in his mind. The money could be used to build factories in industrial zones all over the poor Hispanic coutnries. It could also be used in the construction business which would be busy erecting new residences for the people working in these factories, Some of the money can be used to send the brightest abroad to colleges and universities so that these people can help their countries when they graduate. There are so many possibilities that could make all of these countries better. All it takes is money.

How Rich Is the Catholic Church? No One Really Knows.

The Vatican Billions - Two Thousand Years of Wealth Accumulation from Caesar to the Space Age

Pope Francis Fails To Mention The Vatican Billions As He Gives Speech Denouncing Wealth

Whatever this guy is, Donald Trump should be thankful he is not:

The Motor-Mouth from Rome stepped in it big time this time.

Pope rebuffed after attack on Trump, immigration stance
Posted By Douglas Ernst On 02/18/2016 @ 8:23 pm

Pope rebuffed after attack on Trump, immigration stance​

Frankie must think Americans are stupid. He cleverly tried to cover his ass with a disclaimer when he said he was not interfering in American politics. So exactly what the hell was he doing when he said Trump was not a Christian? Playing word games with building walls to keep illegal immigrants out did not fool anybody. He was telling Christians not to vote for Donald Trump? Even worse, the Motor-Mouth from Rome was promoting the United Nations agenda for open-borders. He can preach that bullshit from his balcony in the Vatican, but there is a price to pay when he sticks his unwanted nose into American politics. See video:

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/47633857320

My prayer is that Congress will stop all of those tax dollars the Catholic Church gets; most especially the money going to charity hustlers to help “immigrants and refugees” comfortably settle down in the welfare state.

Finally, I would like to know if any part of Catholic League President Bill Donohue’s income comes directly or indirectly from tax dollars in violation of the First Amendment. Charitable tax deductions have to be taken into account; i.e., everybody is forced to pick up that tab regardless of their beliefs.

Actually it would have been better for the Pope, instead of thinking of open borders, to say that the people in Mexico and Central and South America should start helping themselves instead of trying to get into another country. Why is it that the Northern Hemisphere (Canada and the U.S. ) is way ahead of so many of the countries below the border. People have been coming from South of our border for years and years when they should have been trying to make their own countries better.

As sad as it is to see people struggling in many places of the world, the part of the world which is doing so much better economically should not have to constantly support those who don't even try harder to make their own countries a place which would give them opportunities to have a fulfilling life for themselves and their families.

There are many struggling people in our own society who should be the ones to be helped the most. Maybe Pope Francis can sell some of the riches of the church to help the people whose rights to cross borders seem to be up most in his mind. The money could be used to build factories in industrial zones all over the poor Hispanic coutnries. It could also be used in the construction business which would be busy erecting new residences for the people working in these factories, Some of the money can be used to send the brightest abroad to colleges and universities so that these people can help their countries when they graduate. There are so many possibilities that could make all of these countries better. All it takes is money and hard work.

How Rich Is the Catholic Church? No One Really Knows.

The Vatican Billions - Two Thousand Years of Wealth Accumulation from Caesar to the Space Age

Pope Francis Fails To Mention The Vatican Billions As He Gives Speech Denouncing Wealth