America..a Failed State?

[EvilEyeFleegle]

These are not "factions" in the usual sense. While the Republicans have their issues, it is The Democratic Party that is diametrically opposed to all things Constitutional. They are in effect a foreign interloper into American politics that seeks to undermine our founding principles in favor of a governing philosophy based upon deceit, statutory theft and totalitarian rule.

Sorry, but there can be no compromise.

LOL! I look to your post as a classic example of an attack by an adherent of one faction upon its rival faction. Your reply is more a 'manifesto' than any cogent response to the OP..IMO.

These are factions in the very usual sense..competing adherents to one or another issue...running in allied packs--attacking their rivals in every forum..at any time...buying into realpolitik and conditioning their ethics situationally..with one filter..does it help/hinder my goals.

If "American" is a "faction" within its own nation, I'm guilty.

An American is any citizen of the United States of America. Your attempt to define and limit the use and definition is part of the problem. You know full well what I'm talking about and yet choose to write otherwise--that's a tactic.

As to being a tiny part of the problem..I accept your plea...do better.

If part of the reason America is a failed state, is the split between native born and immigrant, that would make high immigration a failed policy that should be reversed, asap.

Right?

Nope...your plug for your faction is noted.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Enjoyed this article in Atlantic...comments? It's long, and there is some I disagree with..there is enough meat here to justify ignoring the fat..LOL

We Are Living in a Failed State

The coronavirus didn’t break America. It revealed what was already broken.

www.theatlantic.com

This second crisis, (the Great Recession) drove a profound wedge between Americans: between the upper and lower classes, Republicans and Democrats, metropolitan and rural people, the native-born and immigrants, ordinary Americans and their leaders. Social bonds had been under growing strain for several decades, and now they began to tear. The reforms of the Obama years, important as they were—in health care, financial regulation, green energy—had only palliative effects. The long recovery over the past decade enriched corporations and investors, lulled professionals, and left the working class further behind. The lasting effect of the slump was to increase polarization and to discredit authority, especially government’s.


Both parties were slow to grasp how much credibility they’d lost. The coming politics was populist. Its harbinger wasn’t Barack Obama but Sarah Palin, the absurdly unready vice-presidential candidate who scorned expertise and reveled in celebrity. She was Donald Trump’s John the Baptist.

The virus should have united Americans against a common threat. With different leadership, it might have. Instead, even as it spread from blue to red areas, attitudes broke down along familiar partisan lines. The virus also should have been a great leveler. You don’t have to be in the military or in debt to be a target—you just have to be human. But from the start, its effects have been skewed by the inequality that we’ve tolerated for so long. When tests for the virus were almost impossible to find, the wealthy and connected—the model and reality-TV host Heidi Klum, the entire roster of the Brooklyn Nets, the president’s conservative allies—were somehow able to get tested, despite many showing no symptoms. The smattering of individual results did nothing to protect public health. Meanwhile, ordinary people with fevers and chills had to wait in long and possibly infectious lines, only to be turned away because they weren’t actually suffocating. An internet joke proposed that the only way to find out whether you had the virus was to sneeze in a rich person’s face.


When Trump was asked about this blatant unfairness, he expressed disapproval but added, “Perhaps that’s been the story of life.”

I have to say...that Trump spoke the truth--hard and bitter--but 'it is what it is' sometimes. There is no question in my mind that our incessant faction fighting is hurting us. It crippled our decision making process in the beginning..and now it threatens to taint our recovery.

I read the article. Excellent prose.

What did you disagree with?

I think the writers spent too much time Trump-bashing--and not acknowledging that they themselves, are part of the problem..to some extent. the article is cogent and well-written..and slants left. Not enough to warp the facts...but more than enough to take a side.

Ok.

I thought he took it much too easy on the blob and kushy . He could have quoted the “miracle” guarantee, the “zero cases” prediction, the “it’s our stockpile” lunacy or any one of a dozen other bizarre statements.

LOL..and your plug for your faction is noted! Really..nicknames even?

 

[Camp]

America's current political and institutional difficulties will cease and become stronger than ever when they remove the buffoon currently residing in the White House pretending to be a President.

No, they won't. Those that Trump spoke for, will still be here, being ignored by the Political Class and those who hate us, will keep attacking US.

Ya, many folks have seen and predicted the "victimhood" excuse you are using. Poor tea bagger trumpoholics. Everyone is picking on them for no good reasons.

 

[Correll]

These are not "factions" in the usual sense. While the Republicans have their issues, it is The Democratic Party that is diametrically opposed to all things Constitutional. They are in effect a foreign interloper into American politics that seeks to undermine our founding principles in favor of a governing philosophy based upon deceit, statutory theft and totalitarian rule.

Sorry, but there can be no compromise.

LOL! I look to your post as a classic example of an attack by an adherent of one faction upon its rival faction. Your reply is more a 'manifesto' than any cogent response to the OP..IMO.

These are factions in the very usual sense..competing adherents to one or another issue...running in allied packs--attacking their rivals in every forum..at any time...buying into realpolitik and conditioning their ethics situationally..with one filter..does it help/hinder my goals.

If "American" is a "faction" within its own nation, I'm guilty.

An American is any citizen of the United States of America. Your attempt to define and limit the use and definition is part of the problem. You know full well what I'm talking about and yet choose to write otherwise--that's a tactic.

As to being a tiny part of the problem..I accept your plea...do better.

If part of the reason America is a failed state, is the split between native born and immigrant, that would make high immigration a failed policy that should be reversed, asap.

Right?

Nope...your plug for your faction is noted.

If immigrants were not a big enough force to split the country, then that part of the problem would not be there.

Avoiding such issues, is why we want to discuss the possible long term negative impacts of policies, BEFORE we implement them.

Now that we see the results, it is time to admit that the choice made was wrong and to try to learn from it.


That is what a healthy society would do.

 

[Correll]

America's current political and institutional difficulties will cease and become stronger than ever when they remove the buffoon currently residing in the White House pretending to be a President.

No, they won't. Those that Trump spoke for, will still be here, being ignored by the Political Class and those who hate us, will keep attacking US.

Ya, many folks have seen and predicted the "victimhood" excuse you are using. Poor tea bagger trumpoholics. Everyone is picking on them for no good reasons.

So, you refute my complaint of us being attacked, by attacking us?

Interesting choice.

 

[White 6]

I have to say...that Trump spoke the truth--hard and bitter--but 'it is what it is' sometimes. There is no question in my mind that our incessant faction fighting is hurting us. It crippled our decision making process in the beginning..and now it threatens to taint our recovery.

Not failed, but a state with issues - like every state has.

But, one of the issues is that one of the two major parties has abandoned governing altogether, rejects constitutional and legal limits and guidance, and serves the plutocracy to the detriment of everybody else.

Now, the "faction fighting" does hurt, but Trump's failure starting in mid-January, when his intelligence community warned him against the coming pandemic, which he didn't want to hear, has had nothing whatsoever to do with faction fighting. It's a "chief magistrate" who is every Reagan-Republican's wet dream, demonstrating that government is the problem in ways really unimaginable - and that is after Katrina. What we get to observe is Republicanism in its purest form at work.

As to the recovery being tainted: The recovery can start when folks can be sure it's safe to go out to work and consume. The central precondition for that is testing. Ample, reliable, swift, with a near unlimited supply of swaps, reagents, chemicals. What we get to observe is another wild-west bonanza for private price gauging because Trump refuses to be involved, States (and the federal government) outbidding each other, taxpayers and healthcare premium payers fleeced up and down the country.

Did I mention, what we get to observe is Republicanism at work? Yep, I did. Privatizing public assets to be gobbled up by fat cats while leaving ordinary Americans, and communities of color in particular, to suffocate, literally and financially. I really, really cannot begin to understand how you find it in your own good self to decry "our incessant faction fighting" when governors from both parties beg Trump, after more than three years in office, finally to start to do his job.

The solution to most of your issues is unity. Every problem is not Trump..every failure is not Republican. We, the people, elect our govt. top to bottom. If we get bad governance--we did it to ourselves. Olde Europe....I think the issue is that you...and most on both sides of the divide..want a win--and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins. I note..that the Civil War became inevitable when the South--ruled by the Democratic party of the time...realized that they had permanently lost control of the Congress.

All you say of Trump is true...and is nothing that an election can't cure. But if your solution is to replace Trump's pandering to his faction with some Democrat pandering to their faction...the wheels are going to come off sooner or later. It has gotten to the point where Trump really can't win with the left..so why blame him when he doesn't even try?
If Trump gets involved...he's wrong..if he does not...he's wrong. I've seen both arguments made lately..sometimes by the same person!

I'm a King Log guy..not a King Stork type. I'm comfortable with the States taking the lead. In fact, the degree of independence that some states are exhibiting is downright healthy..IMO.

I liked the last half of your post and am proud of the executive leadership of many of the states. But,

and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins.

No way. The answer will not be found in one party rule. Both parties are severely lacking. I am not ready to give up on the two party system. Would like to return to checks and balances as deigned by the framers. We have virtual lockstep governance right now. How does it really look to you?

 

[Camp]

America's current political and institutional difficulties will cease and become stronger than ever when they remove the buffoon currently residing in the White House pretending to be a President.

No, they won't. Those that Trump spoke for, will still be here, being ignored by the Political Class and those who hate us, will keep attacking US.

Ya, many folks have seen and predicted the "victimhood" excuse you are using. Poor tea bagger trumpoholics. Everyone is picking on them for no good reasons.

So, you refute my complaint of us being attacked, by attacking us?

Interesting choice.

No, I am putting your victimhood in perspective. You being criticized, your opinions being rejected and people viewing you and your ilk as deplorable misinformed morons, an attack if you wish, does not make you a victim of anything but yourself and your own buffoonery.

 

[candycorn]

Enjoyed this article in Atlantic...comments? It's long, and there is some I disagree with..there is enough meat here to justify ignoring the fat..LOL

We Are Living in a Failed State

The coronavirus didn’t break America. It revealed what was already broken.

www.theatlantic.com

This second crisis, (the Great Recession) drove a profound wedge between Americans: between the upper and lower classes, Republicans and Democrats, metropolitan and rural people, the native-born and immigrants, ordinary Americans and their leaders. Social bonds had been under growing strain for several decades, and now they began to tear. The reforms of the Obama years, important as they were—in health care, financial regulation, green energy—had only palliative effects. The long recovery over the past decade enriched corporations and investors, lulled professionals, and left the working class further behind. The lasting effect of the slump was to increase polarization and to discredit authority, especially government’s.


Both parties were slow to grasp how much credibility they’d lost. The coming politics was populist. Its harbinger wasn’t Barack Obama but Sarah Palin, the absurdly unready vice-presidential candidate who scorned expertise and reveled in celebrity. She was Donald Trump’s John the Baptist.

The virus should have united Americans against a common threat. With different leadership, it might have. Instead, even as it spread from blue to red areas, attitudes broke down along familiar partisan lines. The virus also should have been a great leveler. You don’t have to be in the military or in debt to be a target—you just have to be human. But from the start, its effects have been skewed by the inequality that we’ve tolerated for so long. When tests for the virus were almost impossible to find, the wealthy and connected—the model and reality-TV host Heidi Klum, the entire roster of the Brooklyn Nets, the president’s conservative allies—were somehow able to get tested, despite many showing no symptoms. The smattering of individual results did nothing to protect public health. Meanwhile, ordinary people with fevers and chills had to wait in long and possibly infectious lines, only to be turned away because they weren’t actually suffocating. An internet joke proposed that the only way to find out whether you had the virus was to sneeze in a rich person’s face.


When Trump was asked about this blatant unfairness, he expressed disapproval but added, “Perhaps that’s been the story of life.”

I have to say...that Trump spoke the truth--hard and bitter--but 'it is what it is' sometimes. There is no question in my mind that our incessant faction fighting is hurting us. It crippled our decision making process in the beginning..and now it threatens to taint our recovery.

I read the article. Excellent prose.

What did you disagree with?

I think the writers spent too much time Trump-bashing--and not acknowledging that they themselves, are part of the problem..to some extent. the article is cogent and well-written..and slants left. Not enough to warp the facts...but more than enough to take a side.

Ok.

I thought he took it much too easy on the blob and kushy . He could have quoted the “miracle” guarantee, the “zero cases” prediction, the “it’s our stockpile” lunacy or any one of a dozen other bizarre statements.

LOL..and your plug for your faction is noted! Really..nicknames even?

Well he is the President; right? Shouldn’t he take on the brunt of the responsibility? You can certainly blame others but zip, zero, nada, nothing gets done without the blob’s signature.

 

[Correll]

America's current political and institutional difficulties will cease and become stronger than ever when they remove the buffoon currently residing in the White House pretending to be a President.

No, they won't. Those that Trump spoke for, will still be here, being ignored by the Political Class and those who hate us, will keep attacking US.

Ya, many folks have seen and predicted the "victimhood" excuse you are using. Poor tea bagger trumpoholics. Everyone is picking on them for no good reasons.

So, you refute my complaint of us being attacked, by attacking us?

Interesting choice.

No, I am putting your victimhood in perspective. You being criticized, your opinions being rejected and people viewing you and your ilk as deplorable misinformed morons, an attack if you wish, does not make you a victim of anything but yourself and your own buffoonery.

Calling me a deplorable moron, is an attack. Crafting policies that harm my interests, because of your bigotry against us, is an attack. Attacking me for even WANTING to have my interests discussed, is an attack.

Your denial of this obvious fact, is a failure of your self awareness.


And my point stands. YOur behavior is part of the split, and it will remain, even after Trump is gone. So the split remains.


That is my point, that your hate, will not let you even see, let alone address.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

America's current political and institutional difficulties will cease and become stronger than ever when they remove the buffoon currently residing in the White House pretending to be a President.

And put a groper of women and children who doesnt know what time of day it is or where he is? The only way, is if you libs recount all but 2 states, because that is going to be what will happen this election, Sleepy Joe the groper Biden gets Californicaion and NY Shithole...

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

I have to say...that Trump spoke the truth--hard and bitter--but 'it is what it is' sometimes. There is no question in my mind that our incessant faction fighting is hurting us. It crippled our decision making process in the beginning..and now it threatens to taint our recovery.

Not failed, but a state with issues - like every state has.

But, one of the issues is that one of the two major parties has abandoned governing altogether, rejects constitutional and legal limits and guidance, and serves the plutocracy to the detriment of everybody else.

Now, the "faction fighting" does hurt, but Trump's failure starting in mid-January, when his intelligence community warned him against the coming pandemic, which he didn't want to hear, has had nothing whatsoever to do with faction fighting. It's a "chief magistrate" who is every Reagan-Republican's wet dream, demonstrating that government is the problem in ways really unimaginable - and that is after Katrina. What we get to observe is Republicanism in its purest form at work.

As to the recovery being tainted: The recovery can start when folks can be sure it's safe to go out to work and consume. The central precondition for that is testing. Ample, reliable, swift, with a near unlimited supply of swaps, reagents, chemicals. What we get to observe is another wild-west bonanza for private price gauging because Trump refuses to be involved, States (and the federal government) outbidding each other, taxpayers and healthcare premium payers fleeced up and down the country.

Did I mention, what we get to observe is Republicanism at work? Yep, I did. Privatizing public assets to be gobbled up by fat cats while leaving ordinary Americans, and communities of color in particular, to suffocate, literally and financially. I really, really cannot begin to understand how you find it in your own good self to decry "our incessant faction fighting" when governors from both parties beg Trump, after more than three years in office, finally to start to do his job.

The solution to most of your issues is unity. Every problem is not Trump..every failure is not Republican. We, the people, elect our govt. top to bottom. If we get bad governance--we did it to ourselves. Olde Europe....I think the issue is that you...and most on both sides of the divide..want a win--and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins. I note..that the Civil War became inevitable when the South--ruled by the Democratic party of the time...realized that they had permanently lost control of the Congress.

All you say of Trump is true...and is nothing that an election can't cure. But if your solution is to replace Trump's pandering to his faction with some Democrat pandering to their faction...the wheels are going to come off sooner or later. It has gotten to the point where Trump really can't win with the left..so why blame him when he doesn't even try?
If Trump gets involved...he's wrong..if he does not...he's wrong. I've seen both arguments made lately..sometimes by the same person!

I'm a King Log guy..not a King Stork type. I'm comfortable with the States taking the lead. In fact, the degree of independence that some states are exhibiting is downright healthy..IMO.

I liked the last half of your post and am proud of the executive leadership of many of the states. But,

and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins.

No way. The answer will not be found in one party rule. Both parties are severely lacking. I am not ready to give up on the two party system. Would like to return to checks and balances as deigned by the framers. We have virtual lockstep governance right now. How does it really look to you?

It looks as though the mechanisms of governance designed in the nineteenth century may not entirely fit the needs of the 21st. Our representative form of government and system of voting seems to be vulnerable to gaming and the powers that be are invested in keeping it that way. Gerrymandering is just one example. Electoral college is another.
I'd love a return to checks and balances..but factions, represented by lobbies..have empowered themselves by finding ways around them.

Citizen's United was a watershed moment in politics..The SCOTUS said the money has a greater voice than do the people. So there you have it.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

The left has been trying to make this country a failed state since 1966. Now they have Chinese allies to help.

 

[Correll]

I have to say...that Trump spoke the truth--hard and bitter--but 'it is what it is' sometimes. There is no question in my mind that our incessant faction fighting is hurting us. It crippled our decision making process in the beginning..and now it threatens to taint our recovery.

Not failed, but a state with issues - like every state has.

But, one of the issues is that one of the two major parties has abandoned governing altogether, rejects constitutional and legal limits and guidance, and serves the plutocracy to the detriment of everybody else.

Now, the "faction fighting" does hurt, but Trump's failure starting in mid-January, when his intelligence community warned him against the coming pandemic, which he didn't want to hear, has had nothing whatsoever to do with faction fighting. It's a "chief magistrate" who is every Reagan-Republican's wet dream, demonstrating that government is the problem in ways really unimaginable - and that is after Katrina. What we get to observe is Republicanism in its purest form at work.

As to the recovery being tainted: The recovery can start when folks can be sure it's safe to go out to work and consume. The central precondition for that is testing. Ample, reliable, swift, with a near unlimited supply of swaps, reagents, chemicals. What we get to observe is another wild-west bonanza for private price gauging because Trump refuses to be involved, States (and the federal government) outbidding each other, taxpayers and healthcare premium payers fleeced up and down the country.

Did I mention, what we get to observe is Republicanism at work? Yep, I did. Privatizing public assets to be gobbled up by fat cats while leaving ordinary Americans, and communities of color in particular, to suffocate, literally and financially. I really, really cannot begin to understand how you find it in your own good self to decry "our incessant faction fighting" when governors from both parties beg Trump, after more than three years in office, finally to start to do his job.

The solution to most of your issues is unity. Every problem is not Trump..every failure is not Republican. We, the people, elect our govt. top to bottom. If we get bad governance--we did it to ourselves. Olde Europe....I think the issue is that you...and most on both sides of the divide..want a win--and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins. I note..that the Civil War became inevitable when the South--ruled by the Democratic party of the time...realized that they had permanently lost control of the Congress.

All you say of Trump is true...and is nothing that an election can't cure. But if your solution is to replace Trump's pandering to his faction with some Democrat pandering to their faction...the wheels are going to come off sooner or later. It has gotten to the point where Trump really can't win with the left..so why blame him when he doesn't even try?
If Trump gets involved...he's wrong..if he does not...he's wrong. I've seen both arguments made lately..sometimes by the same person!

I'm a King Log guy..not a King Stork type. I'm comfortable with the States taking the lead. In fact, the degree of independence that some states are exhibiting is downright healthy..IMO.

I liked the last half of your post and am proud of the executive leadership of many of the states. But,

and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins.

No way. The answer will not be found in one party rule. Both parties are severely lacking. I am not ready to give up on the two party system. Would like to return to checks and balances as deigned by the framers. We have virtual lockstep governance right now. How does it really look to you?

It looks as though the mechanisms of governance designed in the nineteenth century may not entirely fit the needs of the 21st. Our representative form of government and system of voting seems to be vulnerable to gaming and the powers that be are invested in keeping it that way. Gerrymandering is just one example. Electoral college is another.
I'd love a return to checks and balances..but factions, represented by lobbies..have empowered themselves by finding ways around them.

Citizen's United was a watershed moment in politics..The SCOTUS said the money has a greater voice than do the people. So there you have it.

No system can survive is the people lose faith in the country.


The political class has been indoctrinated to think they are above such common ideals such as patriotism or nationalism.

Those are forces that would bind US together. But they have been purposefully cut.

 

[Olde Europe]

The solution to most of your issues is unity. Every problem is not Trump..every failure is not Republican. We, the people, elect our govt. top to bottom. If we get bad governance--we did it to ourselves. Olde Europe....I think the issue is that you...and most on both sides of the divide..want a win--and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins. I note..that the Civil War became inevitable when the South--ruled by the Democratic party of the time...realized that they had permanently lost control of the Congress.

All you say of Trump is true...and is nothing that an election can't cure. But if your solution is to replace Trump's pandering to his faction with some Democrat pandering to their faction...the wheels are going to come off sooner or later. It has gotten to the point where Trump really can't win with the left..so why blame him when he doesn't even try?
If Trump gets involved...he's wrong..if he does not...he's wrong. I've seen both arguments made lately..sometimes by the same person!

I'm a King Log guy..not a King Stork type. I'm comfortable with the States taking the lead. In fact, the degree of independence that some states are exhibiting is downright healthy..IMO.

I don't give a rat's posterior about a win. What I want is a Republican party getting their senses back, either to form a government at the service of We the People, or a loyal opposition serving the exact same We the People.

There is a difference you carefully avoid acknowledging, the one between governance according to the best possible advice and following procedures to ensure swift and competent implementation, and governance following "I take no responsibility at all," undermining and hollowing out government itself. It has nothing - nothing whatsoever - to do with pandering to one faction or the other. It's about the role of government itself, as opposed to having next to no government for those not fortunate enough to be in the upper strata of society - that would be some 99.9%.

President Obama left behind a Pandemic Response Plan, and a National Pandemic Response Team at the National Security Council. Trump ignored the former, and dismantled the latter. Ever since, authorities were playing catch-up with the virus. You don't win against a pandemic playing catch-up, but you leave piles of bodies left and right while doing so. That is on Trump. Heck, at the end of January Navarro wrote a memo warning there might be half a million dead, running around with his hair on fire. "Navarro is writing lots of memos." Said Trump.

Here's a good, fact-based, and well-written account of Trump's failures. I would suggest you read it (again).

When the desperate need for life-saving equipment bumps up against limited supply, putting the country as a whole and the first responders, physicians and nurses at risk of falling ill and dying, you don't play monopoly with lives. Because that's what "States taking the lead" amounts to under the current circumstances.

Again, Eye: You want a recovery? Have testing. That requires Trump using the Defense Production Act and ensuring the necessary supplies, not one State buying up whatever three other States hoped to buy for their recovery. That requires a uniform national strategy, not Georgians, recently infected due to the loose handling of social distancing, traveling all over the country creating hundreds or thousands of new hotspots all over the country. That way, recovery will not be happening. This really shouldn't be difficult to understand.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

The solution to most of your issues is unity. Every problem is not Trump..every failure is not Republican. We, the people, elect our govt. top to bottom. If we get bad governance--we did it to ourselves. Olde Europe....I think the issue is that you...and most on both sides of the divide..want a win--and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins. I note..that the Civil War became inevitable when the South--ruled by the Democratic party of the time...realized that they had permanently lost control of the Congress.

All you say of Trump is true...and is nothing that an election can't cure. But if your solution is to replace Trump's pandering to his faction with some Democrat pandering to their faction...the wheels are going to come off sooner or later. It has gotten to the point where Trump really can't win with the left..so why blame him when he doesn't even try?
If Trump gets involved...he's wrong..if he does not...he's wrong. I've seen both arguments made lately..sometimes by the same person!

I'm a King Log guy..not a King Stork type. I'm comfortable with the States taking the lead. In fact, the degree of independence that some states are exhibiting is downright healthy..IMO.

I don't give a rat's posterior about a win. What I want is a Republican party getting their senses back, either to form a government at the service of We the People, or a loyal opposition serving the exact same We the People.

There is a difference you carefully avoid acknowledging, the one between governance according to the best possible advice and following procedures to ensure swift and competent implementation, and governance following "I take no responsibility at all," undermining and hollowing out government itself. It has nothing - nothing whatsoever - to do with pandering to one faction or the other. It's about the role of government itself, as opposed to having next to no government for those not fortunate enough to be in the upper strata of society - that would be some 99.9%.

President Obama left behind a Pandemic Response Plan, and a National Pandemic Response Team at the National Security Council. Trump ignored the former, and dismantled the latter. Ever since, authorities were playing catch-up with the virus. You don't win against a pandemic playing catch-up, but you leave piles of bodies left and right while doing so. That is on Trump. Heck, at the end of January Navarro wrote a memo warning there might be half a million dead, running around with his hair on fire. "Navarro is writing lots of memos." Said Trump.

Here's a good, fact-based, and well-written account of Trump's failures. I would suggest you read it (again).

When the desperate need for life-saving equipment bumps up against limited supply, putting the country as a whole and the first responders, physicians and nurses at risk of falling ill and dying, you don't play monopoly with lives. Because that's what "States taking the lead" amounts to under the current circumstances.

Again, Eye: You want a recovery? Have testing. That requires Trump using the Defense Production Act and ensuring the necessary supplies, not one State buying up whatever three other States hoped to buy for their recovery. That requires a uniform national strategy, not Georgians, recently infected due to the loose handling of social distancing, traveling all over the country creating hundreds or thousands of new hotspots all over the country. That way, recovery will not be happening. This really shouldn't be difficult to understand.

Sure..you're right, for the most part. Here's the thing..first, I think, by and large, that our response to this virus is going to be a success. all numbers indicate that flattening the curve has worked..and cases are below projections. Good news. There will be fresh outbreaks for months...bad news. Yes we need testing..and lots of it. It's coming.
Recovery is going to be long..and painful.

The economic fall-out is going to be huge...bad news. Things will get better. Good news.

My point is that too many are focusing on making the other side look bad. I want Trump out also..but I don't wish ruin upon my fellow Americans to facilitate his removal!
I just do not get the feeling that a lot of Democrats are rooting for things to get better..rooting for our President to succeed, to give credit, if and when, any is due.
Just as i don't see a lot of human compassion from the Right for the plight of their fellow Americans..of all colors. I see some glee about Libs dying on the coasts--I see willful blind-fullness about what is going on in DC...with Trump steering every buck he can to his cronies...and campaigning non stop in his pressers.

The thing is, most people aren't willing to take a nuanced and impartial eye..and run it over the whole system.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

Someone expected a different response to all the progressive aggression of the last few decades?

At this time I'm fine with Trump as the progressives eat their $17 a pint ice cream from their $25,000 frigs.

*****CHUCKLE*****

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

The two fringes of our political DNA have allowed themselves to become convinced that they're in a "war", the other "side" is the "enemy", and that they must "defeat" them.

America has become so soft that It's merely a war of words and hurt feelings.

 

[Olde Europe]

Sure..you're right, for the most part. Here's the thing..first, I think, by and large, that our response to this virus is going to be a success. all numbers indicate that flattening the curve has worked..and cases are below projections. Good news. There will be fresh outbreaks for months...bad news. Yes we need testing..and lots of it. It's coming.
Recovery is going to be long..and painful.

I am shaking my head here, Eye. Really. It is not, and will not be, a success. The death count and the harrowing economic damage already saw to that, and it's far from over.

Social distancing has worked. Shutting it down has worked.

Trump is undermining all that, blabbing about a restart and egging on protesters, and Kemp - that downright malign moron - and others are feeling the pressure, opening up prematurely.

The danger with this virus is, when you see the tip of the iceberg, it's nigh on too late.

For a recovery, testing needs to be ramped up to three to five times the current rate. IT IS NOT HAPPENING.

You need 100 to 300k people to do contract tracing. These folks need to be employed, equipped, and trained. IT IS NOT HAPPENING. If you send them out untrained, you risk sending tens of thousands of hyperspreaders all over the country. Answer me this, Eye: You trust Trump to get this right?

Success? Only if wishes could make it happen.

 

[White 6]

I have to say...that Trump spoke the truth--hard and bitter--but 'it is what it is' sometimes. There is no question in my mind that our incessant faction fighting is hurting us. It crippled our decision making process in the beginning..and now it threatens to taint our recovery.

Not failed, but a state with issues - like every state has.

But, one of the issues is that one of the two major parties has abandoned governing altogether, rejects constitutional and legal limits and guidance, and serves the plutocracy to the detriment of everybody else.

Now, the "faction fighting" does hurt, but Trump's failure starting in mid-January, when his intelligence community warned him against the coming pandemic, which he didn't want to hear, has had nothing whatsoever to do with faction fighting. It's a "chief magistrate" who is every Reagan-Republican's wet dream, demonstrating that government is the problem in ways really unimaginable - and that is after Katrina. What we get to observe is Republicanism in its purest form at work.

As to the recovery being tainted: The recovery can start when folks can be sure it's safe to go out to work and consume. The central precondition for that is testing. Ample, reliable, swift, with a near unlimited supply of swaps, reagents, chemicals. What we get to observe is another wild-west bonanza for private price gauging because Trump refuses to be involved, States (and the federal government) outbidding each other, taxpayers and healthcare premium payers fleeced up and down the country.

Did I mention, what we get to observe is Republicanism at work? Yep, I did. Privatizing public assets to be gobbled up by fat cats while leaving ordinary Americans, and communities of color in particular, to suffocate, literally and financially. I really, really cannot begin to understand how you find it in your own good self to decry "our incessant faction fighting" when governors from both parties beg Trump, after more than three years in office, finally to start to do his job.

The solution to most of your issues is unity. Every problem is not Trump..every failure is not Republican. We, the people, elect our govt. top to bottom. If we get bad governance--we did it to ourselves. Olde Europe....I think the issue is that you...and most on both sides of the divide..want a win--and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins. I note..that the Civil War became inevitable when the South--ruled by the Democratic party of the time...realized that they had permanently lost control of the Congress.

All you say of Trump is true...and is nothing that an election can't cure. But if your solution is to replace Trump's pandering to his faction with some Democrat pandering to their faction...the wheels are going to come off sooner or later. It has gotten to the point where Trump really can't win with the left..so why blame him when he doesn't even try?
If Trump gets involved...he's wrong..if he does not...he's wrong. I've seen both arguments made lately..sometimes by the same person!

I'm a King Log guy..not a King Stork type. I'm comfortable with the States taking the lead. In fact, the degree of independence that some states are exhibiting is downright healthy..IMO.

I liked the last half of your post and am proud of the executive leadership of many of the states. But,

and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins.

No way. The answer will not be found in one party rule. Both parties are severely lacking. I am not ready to give up on the two party system. Would like to return to checks and balances as deigned by the framers. We have virtual lockstep governance right now. How does it really look to you?

It looks as though the mechanisms of governance designed in the nineteenth century may not entirely fit the needs of the 21st. Our representative form of government and system of voting seems to be vulnerable to gaming and the powers that be are invested in keeping it that way. Gerrymandering is just one example. Electoral college is another.
I'd love a return to checks and balances..but factions, represented by lobbies..have empowered themselves by finding ways around them.

Citizen's United was a watershed moment in politics..The SCOTUS said the money has a greater voice than do the people. So there you have it.

Every single thing you posted in your response to my post against one party rule is undeniably true, and typed without showing a shred of party partisanship. I am over 65. What you want would be the end of government as we know it, based on our constitution. I am too old to usher it a new form of totalitarian rule for this country, thinking it will be better than governments in other countries headed by a single cabal. Would hate to see that handed down to my kids and grand kids. The challenges are not insurmountable and Biden will not be the solution in and of himself, but he can be a start. The direction we are going is wrong especially with trump, but I cannot give up on the wisdom of the founding fathers and put faith in yours either.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

These are not "factions" in the usual sense. While the Republicans have their issues, it is The Democratic Party that is diametrically opposed to all things Constitutional. They are in effect a foreign interloper into American politics that seeks to undermine our founding principles in favor of a governing philosophy based upon deceit, statutory theft and totalitarian rule.

Sorry, but there can be no compromise.

LOL! I look to your post as a classic example of an attack by an adherent of one faction upon its rival faction. Your reply is more a 'manifesto' than any cogent response to the OP..IMO.

These are factions in the very usual sense..competing adherents to one or another issue...running in allied packs--attacking their rivals in every forum..at any time...buying into realpolitik and conditioning their ethics situationally..with one filter..does it help/hinder my goals.

If "American" is a "faction" within its own nation, I'm guilty.

An American is any citizen of the United States of America. Your attempt to define and limit the use and definition is part of the problem. You know full well what I'm talking about and yet choose to write otherwise--that's a tactic.

As to being a tiny part of the problem..I accept your plea...do better.

Being American means being loyal to a set of foundational principles that set us apart from all other nations.