America..a Failed State?

[Porter Rockwell]

I have to say...that Trump spoke the truth--hard and bitter--but 'it is what it is' sometimes. There is no question in my mind that our incessant faction fighting is hurting us. It crippled our decision making process in the beginning..and now it threatens to taint our recovery.

Not failed, but a state with issues - like every state has.

But, one of the issues is that one of the two major parties has abandoned governing altogether, rejects constitutional and legal limits and guidance, and serves the plutocracy to the detriment of everybody else.

Now, the "faction fighting" does hurt, but Trump's failure starting in mid-January, when his intelligence community warned him against the coming pandemic, which he didn't want to hear, has had nothing whatsoever to do with faction fighting. It's a "chief magistrate" who is every Reagan-Republican's wet dream, demonstrating that government is the problem in ways really unimaginable - and that is after Katrina. What we get to observe is Republicanism in its purest form at work.

As to the recovery being tainted: The recovery can start when folks can be sure it's safe to go out to work and consume. The central precondition for that is testing. Ample, reliable, swift, with a near unlimited supply of swaps, reagents, chemicals. What we get to observe is another wild-west bonanza for private price gauging because Trump refuses to be involved, States (and the federal government) outbidding each other, taxpayers and healthcare premium payers fleeced up and down the country.

Did I mention, what we get to observe is Republicanism at work? Yep, I did. Privatizing public assets to be gobbled up by fat cats while leaving ordinary Americans, and communities of color in particular, to suffocate, literally and financially. I really, really cannot begin to understand how you find it in your own good self to decry "our incessant faction fighting" when governors from both parties beg Trump, after more than three years in office, finally to start to do his job.

The solution to most of your issues is unity. Every problem is not Trump..every failure is not Republican. We, the people, elect our govt. top to bottom. If we get bad governance--we did it to ourselves. Olde Europe....I think the issue is that you...and most on both sides of the divide..want a win--and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins. I note..that the Civil War became inevitable when the South--ruled by the Democratic party of the time...realized that they had permanently lost control of the Congress.

All you say of Trump is true...and is nothing that an election can't cure. But if your solution is to replace Trump's pandering to his faction with some Democrat pandering to their faction...the wheels are going to come off sooner or later. It has gotten to the point where Trump really can't win with the left..so why blame him when he doesn't even try?
If Trump gets involved...he's wrong..if he does not...he's wrong. I've seen both arguments made lately..sometimes by the same person!

I'm a King Log guy..not a King Stork type. I'm comfortable with the States taking the lead. In fact, the degree of independence that some states are exhibiting is downright healthy..IMO.

I liked the last half of your post and am proud of the executive leadership of many of the states. But,

and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins.

No way. The answer will not be found in one party rule. Both parties are severely lacking. I am not ready to give up on the two party system. Would like to return to checks and balances as deigned by the framers. We have virtual lockstep governance right now. How does it really look to you?

It looks as though the mechanisms of governance designed in the nineteenth century may not entirely fit the needs of the 21st. Our representative form of government and system of voting seems to be vulnerable to gaming and the powers that be are invested in keeping it that way. Gerrymandering is just one example. Electoral college is another.
I'd love a return to checks and balances..but factions, represented by lobbies..have empowered themselves by finding ways around them.

Citizen's United was a watershed moment in politics..The SCOTUS said the money has a greater voice than do the people. So there you have it.

Every single thing you posted in your response to my post against one party rule is undeniably true, and typed without showing a shred of party partisanship. I am over 65. What you want would be the end of government as we know it, based on our constitution. I am too old to usher it a new form of totalitarian rule for this country, thinking it will be better than governments in other countries headed by a single cabal. Would hate to see that handed down to my kids and grand kids. The challenges are not insurmountable and Biden will not be the solution in and of himself, but he can be a start. The direction we are going is wrong especially with trump, but I cannot give up on the wisdom of the founding fathers and put faith in yours either.

Replacing Trump with Biden would hasten the demise of the Republic. Biden threatened the American people. He has expressed his disdain for the Constitution. He can go to Hell. All the right has done is thump their chests. If Biden takes over, the right has to put up or shut up. So, if you wish a showdown for Liberty, Biden might be your man. Then it will be war or total capitulation.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

I have to say...that Trump spoke the truth--hard and bitter--but 'it is what it is' sometimes. There is no question in my mind that our incessant faction fighting is hurting us. It crippled our decision making process in the beginning..and now it threatens to taint our recovery.

Not failed, but a state with issues - like every state has.

But, one of the issues is that one of the two major parties has abandoned governing altogether, rejects constitutional and legal limits and guidance, and serves the plutocracy to the detriment of everybody else.

Now, the "faction fighting" does hurt, but Trump's failure starting in mid-January, when his intelligence community warned him against the coming pandemic, which he didn't want to hear, has had nothing whatsoever to do with faction fighting. It's a "chief magistrate" who is every Reagan-Republican's wet dream, demonstrating that government is the problem in ways really unimaginable - and that is after Katrina. What we get to observe is Republicanism in its purest form at work.

As to the recovery being tainted: The recovery can start when folks can be sure it's safe to go out to work and consume. The central precondition for that is testing. Ample, reliable, swift, with a near unlimited supply of swaps, reagents, chemicals. What we get to observe is another wild-west bonanza for private price gauging because Trump refuses to be involved, States (and the federal government) outbidding each other, taxpayers and healthcare premium payers fleeced up and down the country.

Did I mention, what we get to observe is Republicanism at work? Yep, I did. Privatizing public assets to be gobbled up by fat cats while leaving ordinary Americans, and communities of color in particular, to suffocate, literally and financially. I really, really cannot begin to understand how you find it in your own good self to decry "our incessant faction fighting" when governors from both parties beg Trump, after more than three years in office, finally to start to do his job.

The solution to most of your issues is unity. Every problem is not Trump..every failure is not Republican. We, the people, elect our govt. top to bottom. If we get bad governance--we did it to ourselves. Olde Europe....I think the issue is that you...and most on both sides of the divide..want a win--and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins. I note..that the Civil War became inevitable when the South--ruled by the Democratic party of the time...realized that they had permanently lost control of the Congress.

All you say of Trump is true...and is nothing that an election can't cure. But if your solution is to replace Trump's pandering to his faction with some Democrat pandering to their faction...the wheels are going to come off sooner or later. It has gotten to the point where Trump really can't win with the left..so why blame him when he doesn't even try?
If Trump gets involved...he's wrong..if he does not...he's wrong. I've seen both arguments made lately..sometimes by the same person!

I'm a King Log guy..not a King Stork type. I'm comfortable with the States taking the lead. In fact, the degree of independence that some states are exhibiting is downright healthy..IMO.

I liked the last half of your post and am proud of the executive leadership of many of the states. But,

and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins.

No way. The answer will not be found in one party rule. Both parties are severely lacking. I am not ready to give up on the two party system. Would like to return to checks and balances as deigned by the framers. We have virtual lockstep governance right now. How does it really look to you?

It looks as though the mechanisms of governance designed in the nineteenth century may not entirely fit the needs of the 21st. Our representative form of government and system of voting seems to be vulnerable to gaming and the powers that be are invested in keeping it that way. Gerrymandering is just one example. Electoral college is another.
I'd love a return to checks and balances..but factions, represented by lobbies..have empowered themselves by finding ways around them.

Citizen's United was a watershed moment in politics..The SCOTUS said the money has a greater voice than do the people. So there you have it.

Every single thing you posted in your response to my post against one party rule is undeniably true, and typed without showing a shred of party partisanship. I am over 65. What you want would be the end of government as we know it, based on our constitution. I am too old to usher it a new form of totalitarian rule for this country, thinking it will be better than governments in other countries headed by a single cabal. Would hate to see that handed down to my kids and grand kids. The challenges are not insurmountable and Biden will not be the solution in and of himself, but he can be a start. The direction we are going is wrong especially with trump, but I cannot give up on the wisdom of the founding fathers and put faith in yours either.

Replacing Trump with Biden would hasten the demise of the Republic. Biden threatened the American people. He has expressed his disdain for the Constitution. He can go to Hell. All the right has done is thump their chests. If Biden takes over, the right has to put up or shut up. So, if you wish a showdown for Liberty, Biden might be your man. Then it will be war or total capitulation.

This country has become way too soft to fight for our own liberty.

 

[White 6]

I have to say...that Trump spoke the truth--hard and bitter--but 'it is what it is' sometimes. There is no question in my mind that our incessant faction fighting is hurting us. It crippled our decision making process in the beginning..and now it threatens to taint our recovery.

Not failed, but a state with issues - like every state has.

But, one of the issues is that one of the two major parties has abandoned governing altogether, rejects constitutional and legal limits and guidance, and serves the plutocracy to the detriment of everybody else.

Now, the "faction fighting" does hurt, but Trump's failure starting in mid-January, when his intelligence community warned him against the coming pandemic, which he didn't want to hear, has had nothing whatsoever to do with faction fighting. It's a "chief magistrate" who is every Reagan-Republican's wet dream, demonstrating that government is the problem in ways really unimaginable - and that is after Katrina. What we get to observe is Republicanism in its purest form at work.

As to the recovery being tainted: The recovery can start when folks can be sure it's safe to go out to work and consume. The central precondition for that is testing. Ample, reliable, swift, with a near unlimited supply of swaps, reagents, chemicals. What we get to observe is another wild-west bonanza for private price gauging because Trump refuses to be involved, States (and the federal government) outbidding each other, taxpayers and healthcare premium payers fleeced up and down the country.

Did I mention, what we get to observe is Republicanism at work? Yep, I did. Privatizing public assets to be gobbled up by fat cats while leaving ordinary Americans, and communities of color in particular, to suffocate, literally and financially. I really, really cannot begin to understand how you find it in your own good self to decry "our incessant faction fighting" when governors from both parties beg Trump, after more than three years in office, finally to start to do his job.

The solution to most of your issues is unity. Every problem is not Trump..every failure is not Republican. We, the people, elect our govt. top to bottom. If we get bad governance--we did it to ourselves. Olde Europe....I think the issue is that you...and most on both sides of the divide..want a win--and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins. I note..that the Civil War became inevitable when the South--ruled by the Democratic party of the time...realized that they had permanently lost control of the Congress.

All you say of Trump is true...and is nothing that an election can't cure. But if your solution is to replace Trump's pandering to his faction with some Democrat pandering to their faction...the wheels are going to come off sooner or later. It has gotten to the point where Trump really can't win with the left..so why blame him when he doesn't even try?
If Trump gets involved...he's wrong..if he does not...he's wrong. I've seen both arguments made lately..sometimes by the same person!

I'm a King Log guy..not a King Stork type. I'm comfortable with the States taking the lead. In fact, the degree of independence that some states are exhibiting is downright healthy..IMO.

I liked the last half of your post and am proud of the executive leadership of many of the states. But,

and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins.

No way. The answer will not be found in one party rule. Both parties are severely lacking. I am not ready to give up on the two party system. Would like to return to checks and balances as deigned by the framers. We have virtual lockstep governance right now. How does it really look to you?

It looks as though the mechanisms of governance designed in the nineteenth century may not entirely fit the needs of the 21st. Our representative form of government and system of voting seems to be vulnerable to gaming and the powers that be are invested in keeping it that way. Gerrymandering is just one example. Electoral college is another.
I'd love a return to checks and balances..but factions, represented by lobbies..have empowered themselves by finding ways around them.

Citizen's United was a watershed moment in politics..The SCOTUS said the money has a greater voice than do the people. So there you have it.

Every single thing you posted in your response to my post against one party rule is undeniably true, and typed without showing a shred of party partisanship. I am over 65. What you want would be the end of government as we know it, based on our constitution. I am too old to usher it a new form of totalitarian rule for this country, thinking it will be better than governments in other countries headed by a single cabal. Would hate to see that handed down to my kids and grand kids. The challenges are not insurmountable and Biden will not be the solution in and of himself, but he can be a start. The direction we are going is wrong especially with trump, but I cannot give up on the wisdom of the founding fathers and put faith in yours either.

Replacing Trump with Biden would hasten the demise of the Republic. Biden threatened the American people. He has expressed his disdain for the Constitution. He can go to Hell. All the right has done is thump their chests. If Biden takes over, the right has to put up or shut up. So, if you wish a showdown for Liberty, Biden might be your man. Then it will be war or total capitulation.

A bit melodramatic for my tastes. I don't see it. Are you advocating threatening the country with civil war, started by the 35 percenters if the rest of us do not capitulate and allow your corrupt figurehead to remain? You should have your meds adjusted.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

I have to say...that Trump spoke the truth--hard and bitter--but 'it is what it is' sometimes. There is no question in my mind that our incessant faction fighting is hurting us. It crippled our decision making process in the beginning..and now it threatens to taint our recovery.

Not failed, but a state with issues - like every state has.

But, one of the issues is that one of the two major parties has abandoned governing altogether, rejects constitutional and legal limits and guidance, and serves the plutocracy to the detriment of everybody else.

Now, the "faction fighting" does hurt, but Trump's failure starting in mid-January, when his intelligence community warned him against the coming pandemic, which he didn't want to hear, has had nothing whatsoever to do with faction fighting. It's a "chief magistrate" who is every Reagan-Republican's wet dream, demonstrating that government is the problem in ways really unimaginable - and that is after Katrina. What we get to observe is Republicanism in its purest form at work.

As to the recovery being tainted: The recovery can start when folks can be sure it's safe to go out to work and consume. The central precondition for that is testing. Ample, reliable, swift, with a near unlimited supply of swaps, reagents, chemicals. What we get to observe is another wild-west bonanza for private price gauging because Trump refuses to be involved, States (and the federal government) outbidding each other, taxpayers and healthcare premium payers fleeced up and down the country.

Did I mention, what we get to observe is Republicanism at work? Yep, I did. Privatizing public assets to be gobbled up by fat cats while leaving ordinary Americans, and communities of color in particular, to suffocate, literally and financially. I really, really cannot begin to understand how you find it in your own good self to decry "our incessant faction fighting" when governors from both parties beg Trump, after more than three years in office, finally to start to do his job.

The solution to most of your issues is unity. Every problem is not Trump..every failure is not Republican. We, the people, elect our govt. top to bottom. If we get bad governance--we did it to ourselves. Olde Europe....I think the issue is that you...and most on both sides of the divide..want a win--and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins. I note..that the Civil War became inevitable when the South--ruled by the Democratic party of the time...realized that they had permanently lost control of the Congress.

All you say of Trump is true...and is nothing that an election can't cure. But if your solution is to replace Trump's pandering to his faction with some Democrat pandering to their faction...the wheels are going to come off sooner or later. It has gotten to the point where Trump really can't win with the left..so why blame him when he doesn't even try?
If Trump gets involved...he's wrong..if he does not...he's wrong. I've seen both arguments made lately..sometimes by the same person!

I'm a King Log guy..not a King Stork type. I'm comfortable with the States taking the lead. In fact, the degree of independence that some states are exhibiting is downright healthy..IMO.

I liked the last half of your post and am proud of the executive leadership of many of the states. But,

and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins.

No way. The answer will not be found in one party rule. Both parties are severely lacking. I am not ready to give up on the two party system. Would like to return to checks and balances as deigned by the framers. We have virtual lockstep governance right now. How does it really look to you?

It looks as though the mechanisms of governance designed in the nineteenth century may not entirely fit the needs of the 21st. Our representative form of government and system of voting seems to be vulnerable to gaming and the powers that be are invested in keeping it that way. Gerrymandering is just one example. Electoral college is another.
I'd love a return to checks and balances..but factions, represented by lobbies..have empowered themselves by finding ways around them.

Citizen's United was a watershed moment in politics..The SCOTUS said the money has a greater voice than do the people. So there you have it.

Every single thing you posted in your response to my post against one party rule is undeniably true, and typed without showing a shred of party partisanship. I am over 65. What you want would be the end of government as we know it, based on our constitution. I am too old to usher it a new form of totalitarian rule for this country, thinking it will be better than governments in other countries headed by a single cabal. Would hate to see that handed down to my kids and grand kids. The challenges are not insurmountable and Biden will not be the solution in and of himself, but he can be a start. The direction we are going is wrong especially with trump, but I cannot give up on the wisdom of the founding fathers and put faith in yours either.

Replacing Trump with Biden would hasten the demise of the Republic. Biden threatened the American people. He has expressed his disdain for the Constitution. He can go to Hell. All the right has done is thump their chests. If Biden takes over, the right has to put up or shut up. So, if you wish a showdown for Liberty, Biden might be your man. Then it will be war or total capitulation.

This country has become way too soft to fight for our own liberty.

Shut down the power grid and the people start waking up in a couple of days. Problem solved. Almost.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

I have to say...that Trump spoke the truth--hard and bitter--but 'it is what it is' sometimes. There is no question in my mind that our incessant faction fighting is hurting us. It crippled our decision making process in the beginning..and now it threatens to taint our recovery.

Not failed, but a state with issues - like every state has.

But, one of the issues is that one of the two major parties has abandoned governing altogether, rejects constitutional and legal limits and guidance, and serves the plutocracy to the detriment of everybody else.

Now, the "faction fighting" does hurt, but Trump's failure starting in mid-January, when his intelligence community warned him against the coming pandemic, which he didn't want to hear, has had nothing whatsoever to do with faction fighting. It's a "chief magistrate" who is every Reagan-Republican's wet dream, demonstrating that government is the problem in ways really unimaginable - and that is after Katrina. What we get to observe is Republicanism in its purest form at work.

As to the recovery being tainted: The recovery can start when folks can be sure it's safe to go out to work and consume. The central precondition for that is testing. Ample, reliable, swift, with a near unlimited supply of swaps, reagents, chemicals. What we get to observe is another wild-west bonanza for private price gauging because Trump refuses to be involved, States (and the federal government) outbidding each other, taxpayers and healthcare premium payers fleeced up and down the country.

Did I mention, what we get to observe is Republicanism at work? Yep, I did. Privatizing public assets to be gobbled up by fat cats while leaving ordinary Americans, and communities of color in particular, to suffocate, literally and financially. I really, really cannot begin to understand how you find it in your own good self to decry "our incessant faction fighting" when governors from both parties beg Trump, after more than three years in office, finally to start to do his job.

The solution to most of your issues is unity. Every problem is not Trump..every failure is not Republican. We, the people, elect our govt. top to bottom. If we get bad governance--we did it to ourselves. Olde Europe....I think the issue is that you...and most on both sides of the divide..want a win--and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins. I note..that the Civil War became inevitable when the South--ruled by the Democratic party of the time...realized that they had permanently lost control of the Congress.

All you say of Trump is true...and is nothing that an election can't cure. But if your solution is to replace Trump's pandering to his faction with some Democrat pandering to their faction...the wheels are going to come off sooner or later. It has gotten to the point where Trump really can't win with the left..so why blame him when he doesn't even try?
If Trump gets involved...he's wrong..if he does not...he's wrong. I've seen both arguments made lately..sometimes by the same person!

I'm a King Log guy..not a King Stork type. I'm comfortable with the States taking the lead. In fact, the degree of independence that some states are exhibiting is downright healthy..IMO.

I liked the last half of your post and am proud of the executive leadership of many of the states. But,

and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins.

No way. The answer will not be found in one party rule. Both parties are severely lacking. I am not ready to give up on the two party system. Would like to return to checks and balances as deigned by the framers. We have virtual lockstep governance right now. How does it really look to you?

It looks as though the mechanisms of governance designed in the nineteenth century may not entirely fit the needs of the 21st. Our representative form of government and system of voting seems to be vulnerable to gaming and the powers that be are invested in keeping it that way. Gerrymandering is just one example. Electoral college is another.
I'd love a return to checks and balances..but factions, represented by lobbies..have empowered themselves by finding ways around them.

Citizen's United was a watershed moment in politics..The SCOTUS said the money has a greater voice than do the people. So there you have it.

Every single thing you posted in your response to my post against one party rule is undeniably true, and typed without showing a shred of party partisanship. I am over 65. What you want would be the end of government as we know it, based on our constitution. I am too old to usher it a new form of totalitarian rule for this country, thinking it will be better than governments in other countries headed by a single cabal. Would hate to see that handed down to my kids and grand kids. The challenges are not insurmountable and Biden will not be the solution in and of himself, but he can be a start. The direction we are going is wrong especially with trump, but I cannot give up on the wisdom of the founding fathers and put faith in yours either.

Replacing Trump with Biden would hasten the demise of the Republic. Biden threatened the American people. He has expressed his disdain for the Constitution. He can go to Hell. All the right has done is thump their chests. If Biden takes over, the right has to put up or shut up. So, if you wish a showdown for Liberty, Biden might be your man. Then it will be war or total capitulation.

This country has become way too soft to fight for our own liberty.

Shut down the power grid and the people start waking up in a couple of days. Problem solved. Almost.

Doing that would be a blatant provocation. That's something entirely different.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

A good article. The “anti-social” disease, the “anti-government” (but very pro-military) disease, is still far too strong in America. Most just want the lockdown to end so we can go back to our old ways. Corporations and their corrupted political spokesmen (Republican and Democratic both), and the millions of super-“patriotic” Americans looking to blame everything on foreigners — most everybody wants to go back to the way things were, whether they are liberals or “Make America Great Again” Trump fanatics.

This epidemic is hardly a Black Plague, yet it has disrupted world economy, is leading to a likely world depression, and has revealed how all our trillions spent on militarism is unable to protect us from a little virus, or our own greed and delusions.

In my opinion a main weakness of this otherwise fine article is that it pays too little attention to the economic and institutional problems of the U.S. and its place in the world. Of course it was not really aiming to be comprehensive. Americans, for the most part, are clearly not yet ready to seriously address fundamental underlying problems, or embrace policy changes necessary to deal with them. They would rather keep fighting amongst themselves, or against potentially real, but mostly imagined, “enemies.”

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

I have to say...that Trump spoke the truth--hard and bitter--but 'it is what it is' sometimes. There is no question in my mind that our incessant faction fighting is hurting us. It crippled our decision making process in the beginning..and now it threatens to taint our recovery.

Not failed, but a state with issues - like every state has.

But, one of the issues is that one of the two major parties has abandoned governing altogether, rejects constitutional and legal limits and guidance, and serves the plutocracy to the detriment of everybody else.

Now, the "faction fighting" does hurt, but Trump's failure starting in mid-January, when his intelligence community warned him against the coming pandemic, which he didn't want to hear, has had nothing whatsoever to do with faction fighting. It's a "chief magistrate" who is every Reagan-Republican's wet dream, demonstrating that government is the problem in ways really unimaginable - and that is after Katrina. What we get to observe is Republicanism in its purest form at work.

As to the recovery being tainted: The recovery can start when folks can be sure it's safe to go out to work and consume. The central precondition for that is testing. Ample, reliable, swift, with a near unlimited supply of swaps, reagents, chemicals. What we get to observe is another wild-west bonanza for private price gauging because Trump refuses to be involved, States (and the federal government) outbidding each other, taxpayers and healthcare premium payers fleeced up and down the country.

Did I mention, what we get to observe is Republicanism at work? Yep, I did. Privatizing public assets to be gobbled up by fat cats while leaving ordinary Americans, and communities of color in particular, to suffocate, literally and financially. I really, really cannot begin to understand how you find it in your own good self to decry "our incessant faction fighting" when governors from both parties beg Trump, after more than three years in office, finally to start to do his job.

The solution to most of your issues is unity. Every problem is not Trump..every failure is not Republican. We, the people, elect our govt. top to bottom. If we get bad governance--we did it to ourselves. Olde Europe....I think the issue is that you...and most on both sides of the divide..want a win--and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins. I note..that the Civil War became inevitable when the South--ruled by the Democratic party of the time...realized that they had permanently lost control of the Congress.

All you say of Trump is true...and is nothing that an election can't cure. But if your solution is to replace Trump's pandering to his faction with some Democrat pandering to their faction...the wheels are going to come off sooner or later. It has gotten to the point where Trump really can't win with the left..so why blame him when he doesn't even try?
If Trump gets involved...he's wrong..if he does not...he's wrong. I've seen both arguments made lately..sometimes by the same person!

I'm a King Log guy..not a King Stork type. I'm comfortable with the States taking the lead. In fact, the degree of independence that some states are exhibiting is downright healthy..IMO.

I liked the last half of your post and am proud of the executive leadership of many of the states. But,

and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins.

No way. The answer will not be found in one party rule. Both parties are severely lacking. I am not ready to give up on the two party system. Would like to return to checks and balances as deigned by the framers. We have virtual lockstep governance right now. How does it really look to you?

It looks as though the mechanisms of governance designed in the nineteenth century may not entirely fit the needs of the 21st. Our representative form of government and system of voting seems to be vulnerable to gaming and the powers that be are invested in keeping it that way. Gerrymandering is just one example. Electoral college is another.
I'd love a return to checks and balances..but factions, represented by lobbies..have empowered themselves by finding ways around them.

Citizen's United was a watershed moment in politics..The SCOTUS said the money has a greater voice than do the people. So there you have it.

Every single thing you posted in your response to my post against one party rule is undeniably true, and typed without showing a shred of party partisanship. I am over 65. What you want would be the end of government as we know it, based on our constitution. I am too old to usher it a new form of totalitarian rule for this country, thinking it will be better than governments in other countries headed by a single cabal. Would hate to see that handed down to my kids and grand kids. The challenges are not insurmountable and Biden will not be the solution in and of himself, but he can be a start. The direction we are going is wrong especially with trump, but I cannot give up on the wisdom of the founding fathers and put faith in yours either.

Replacing Trump with Biden would hasten the demise of the Republic. Biden threatened the American people. He has expressed his disdain for the Constitution. He can go to Hell. All the right has done is thump their chests. If Biden takes over, the right has to put up or shut up. So, if you wish a showdown for Liberty, Biden might be your man. Then it will be war or total capitulation.

A bit melodramatic for my tastes. I don't see it. Are you advocating threatening the country with civil war, started by the 35 percenters if the rest of us do not capitulate and allow your corrupt figurehead to remain? You should have your meds adjusted.

It's just something that people like to claim. A coping mechanism, perhaps. Reality is sometimes hard for people to deal with.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

I have to say...that Trump spoke the truth--hard and bitter--but 'it is what it is' sometimes. There is no question in my mind that our incessant faction fighting is hurting us. It crippled our decision making process in the beginning..and now it threatens to taint our recovery.

Not failed, but a state with issues - like every state has.

But, one of the issues is that one of the two major parties has abandoned governing altogether, rejects constitutional and legal limits and guidance, and serves the plutocracy to the detriment of everybody else.

Now, the "faction fighting" does hurt, but Trump's failure starting in mid-January, when his intelligence community warned him against the coming pandemic, which he didn't want to hear, has had nothing whatsoever to do with faction fighting. It's a "chief magistrate" who is every Reagan-Republican's wet dream, demonstrating that government is the problem in ways really unimaginable - and that is after Katrina. What we get to observe is Republicanism in its purest form at work.

As to the recovery being tainted: The recovery can start when folks can be sure it's safe to go out to work and consume. The central precondition for that is testing. Ample, reliable, swift, with a near unlimited supply of swaps, reagents, chemicals. What we get to observe is another wild-west bonanza for private price gauging because Trump refuses to be involved, States (and the federal government) outbidding each other, taxpayers and healthcare premium payers fleeced up and down the country.

Did I mention, what we get to observe is Republicanism at work? Yep, I did. Privatizing public assets to be gobbled up by fat cats while leaving ordinary Americans, and communities of color in particular, to suffocate, literally and financially. I really, really cannot begin to understand how you find it in your own good self to decry "our incessant faction fighting" when governors from both parties beg Trump, after more than three years in office, finally to start to do his job.

Another armchair quarterback, who is a Commie sympathizer.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

I have to say...that Trump spoke the truth--hard and bitter--but 'it is what it is' sometimes. There is no question in my mind that our incessant faction fighting is hurting us. It crippled our decision making process in the beginning..and now it threatens to taint our recovery.

Not failed, but a state with issues - like every state has.

But, one of the issues is that one of the two major parties has abandoned governing altogether, rejects constitutional and legal limits and guidance, and serves the plutocracy to the detriment of everybody else.

Now, the "faction fighting" does hurt, but Trump's failure starting in mid-January, when his intelligence community warned him against the coming pandemic, which he didn't want to hear, has had nothing whatsoever to do with faction fighting. It's a "chief magistrate" who is every Reagan-Republican's wet dream, demonstrating that government is the problem in ways really unimaginable - and that is after Katrina. What we get to observe is Republicanism in its purest form at work.

As to the recovery being tainted: The recovery can start when folks can be sure it's safe to go out to work and consume. The central precondition for that is testing. Ample, reliable, swift, with a near unlimited supply of swaps, reagents, chemicals. What we get to observe is another wild-west bonanza for private price gauging because Trump refuses to be involved, States (and the federal government) outbidding each other, taxpayers and healthcare premium payers fleeced up and down the country.

Did I mention, what we get to observe is Republicanism at work? Yep, I did. Privatizing public assets to be gobbled up by fat cats while leaving ordinary Americans, and communities of color in particular, to suffocate, literally and financially. I really, really cannot begin to understand how you find it in your own good self to decry "our incessant faction fighting" when governors from both parties beg Trump, after more than three years in office, finally to start to do his job.

The solution to most of your issues is unity. Every problem is not Trump..every failure is not Republican. We, the people, elect our govt. top to bottom. If we get bad governance--we did it to ourselves. Olde Europe....I think the issue is that you...and most on both sides of the divide..want a win--and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins. I note..that the Civil War became inevitable when the South--ruled by the Democratic party of the time...realized that they had permanently lost control of the Congress.

All you say of Trump is true...and is nothing that an election can't cure. But if your solution is to replace Trump's pandering to his faction with some Democrat pandering to their faction...the wheels are going to come off sooner or later. It has gotten to the point where Trump really can't win with the left..so why blame him when he doesn't even try?
If Trump gets involved...he's wrong..if he does not...he's wrong. I've seen both arguments made lately..sometimes by the same person!

I'm a King Log guy..not a King Stork type. I'm comfortable with the States taking the lead. In fact, the degree of independence that some states are exhibiting is downright healthy..IMO.

I liked the last half of your post and am proud of the executive leadership of many of the states. But,

and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins.

No way. The answer will not be found in one party rule. Both parties are severely lacking. I am not ready to give up on the two party system. Would like to return to checks and balances as deigned by the framers. We have virtual lockstep governance right now. How does it really look to you?

It looks as though the mechanisms of governance designed in the nineteenth century may not entirely fit the needs of the 21st. Our representative form of government and system of voting seems to be vulnerable to gaming and the powers that be are invested in keeping it that way. Gerrymandering is just one example. Electoral college is another.
I'd love a return to checks and balances..but factions, represented by lobbies..have empowered themselves by finding ways around them.

Citizen's United was a watershed moment in politics..The SCOTUS said the money has a greater voice than do the people. So there you have it.

Every single thing you posted in your response to my post against one party rule is undeniably true, and typed without showing a shred of party partisanship. I am over 65. What you want would be the end of government as we know it, based on our constitution. I am too old to usher it a new form of totalitarian rule for this country, thinking it will be better than governments in other countries headed by a single cabal. Would hate to see that handed down to my kids and grand kids. The challenges are not insurmountable and Biden will not be the solution in and of himself, but he can be a start. The direction we are going is wrong especially with trump, but I cannot give up on the wisdom of the founding fathers and put faith in yours either.

Replacing Trump with Biden would hasten the demise of the Republic. Biden threatened the American people. He has expressed his disdain for the Constitution. He can go to Hell. All the right has done is thump their chests. If Biden takes over, the right has to put up or shut up. So, if you wish a showdown for Liberty, Biden might be your man. Then it will be war or total capitulation.

A bit melodramatic for my tastes. I don't see it. Are you advocating threatening the country with civil war, started by the 35 percenters if the rest of us do not capitulate and allow your corrupt figurehead to remain? You should have your meds adjusted.

I thought this was the clean debate zone??? You cannot make a point without accusing me of being on drugs? For the record, I do not have a "figurehead." This isn't too clean of a discussion, but I digress.

Donald Trump is a DEMOCRAT. He started out as a D; his best friends have a D beside their name and his ability to get what used to be constitutionalists and the right to co-opt the talking points of the far left is amazing. There are no real leaders on the left or the right; D or R; conservative or liberal. The average politician knows less about the history of this country or its Constitution than I know about nuclear physics. Joe Biden looks into a camera and threatened the American people. If that is what you want for a president, then you have far more problems than we can solve on a discussion board.

Democrats in general have made it plain that they are opposed to every foundational principle upon which the Republic rests. The Republicans, who once said they were for limited government, keep getting snookered by the Democrats and end up doing more damage to the Constitution by accident than the Democrats are able to accomplish on purpose. Trump comes along as an anomaly. He is a Democrat, a globalist (with strong ties to Rupert Murdoch as in Council on Foreign Relations), and a man who shows no kind of humility. I'm embarrassed that he has a Director of Infectious Diseases telling the American people to shelter in place, stay at home, do social distancing, etc. and then Trump advocates that people ignore the advice and protest so that the governors will open the states back up so we don't sink economically. I don't like the man because he is the most anti-gun president in the history on the United States and he does not understand the Constitution NOR does he give a rip about it.

With both sides being unfit to lead, our only option is to vote for the lesser of two evils. Putting Biden in as president would mean that there are no longer any pretenses about where America is in terms of government. Biden would signal the end of the Republic and the principles our forefathers fought, bled and died for. There's nothing melodramatic about it. As a free nation, America is on life support. America has more people in prison than any country on this planet; we have more drug addicts than any other nation - Americans consuming over 80 percent of the world's opioid supply for starters. For every drug addict in a mental health facility you have more than 10 drug addicts in prison. And now, we are leading the world in Covid 19 related deaths. Putting a senile wannabe dictator with no love of Liberty in the White House, especially during these times, would be the end of America. Vote for Trump. Buy America some time and then try finding some leadership that can get us back to moral, physical, and economic sanity.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

The solution to most of your issues is unity. Every problem is not Trump..every failure is not Republican. We, the people, elect our govt. top to bottom. If we get bad governance--we did it to ourselves. Olde Europe....I think the issue is that you...and most on both sides of the divide..want a win--and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins. I note..that the Civil War became inevitable when the South--ruled by the Democratic party of the time...realized that they had permanently lost control of the Congress.

All you say of Trump is true...and is nothing that an election can't cure. But if your solution is to replace Trump's pandering to his faction with some Democrat pandering to their faction...the wheels are going to come off sooner or later. It has gotten to the point where Trump really can't win with the left..so why blame him when he doesn't even try?
If Trump gets involved...he's wrong..if he does not...he's wrong. I've seen both arguments made lately..sometimes by the same person!

I'm a King Log guy..not a King Stork type. I'm comfortable with the States taking the lead. In fact, the degree of independence that some states are exhibiting is downright healthy..IMO.

I don't give a rat's posterior about a win. What I want is a Republican party getting their senses back, either to form a government at the service of We the People, or a loyal opposition serving the exact same We the People.

There is a difference you carefully avoid acknowledging, the one between governance according to the best possible advice and following procedures to ensure swift and competent implementation, and governance following "I take no responsibility at all," undermining and hollowing out government itself. It has nothing - nothing whatsoever - to do with pandering to one faction or the other. It's about the role of government itself, as opposed to having next to no government for those not fortunate enough to be in the upper strata of society - that would be some 99.9%.

President Obama left behind a Pandemic Response Plan, and a National Pandemic Response Team at the National Security Council. Trump ignored the former, and dismantled the latter. Ever since, authorities were playing catch-up with the virus. You don't win against a pandemic playing catch-up, but you leave piles of bodies left and right while doing so. That is on Trump. Heck, at the end of January Navarro wrote a memo warning there might be half a million dead, running around with his hair on fire. "Navarro is writing lots of memos." Said Trump.

Here's a good, fact-based, and well-written account of Trump's failures. I would suggest you read it (again).

When the desperate need for life-saving equipment bumps up against limited supply, putting the country as a whole and the first responders, physicians and nurses at risk of falling ill and dying, you don't play monopoly with lives. Because that's what "States taking the lead" amounts to under the current circumstances.

Again, Eye: You want a recovery? Have testing. That requires Trump using the Defense Production Act and ensuring the necessary supplies, not one State buying up whatever three other States hoped to buy for their recovery. That requires a uniform national strategy, not Georgians, recently infected due to the loose handling of social distancing, traveling all over the country creating hundreds or thousands of new hotspots all over the country. That way, recovery will not be happening. This really shouldn't be difficult to understand.

It was interesting that the brown turd Oblummer had put a tax on all medical equipment so his failed Oblummercare could be paid for. Too many medical facilities ended up selling those off, because of that tax. But, but President Trump failed.......Right....just dumb.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

I have to say...that Trump spoke the truth--hard and bitter--but 'it is what it is' sometimes. There is no question in my mind that our incessant faction fighting is hurting us. It crippled our decision making process in the beginning..and now it threatens to taint our recovery.

Not failed, but a state with issues - like every state has.

But, one of the issues is that one of the two major parties has abandoned governing altogether, rejects constitutional and legal limits and guidance, and serves the plutocracy to the detriment of everybody else.

Now, the "faction fighting" does hurt, but Trump's failure starting in mid-January, when his intelligence community warned him against the coming pandemic, which he didn't want to hear, has had nothing whatsoever to do with faction fighting. It's a "chief magistrate" who is every Reagan-Republican's wet dream, demonstrating that government is the problem in ways really unimaginable - and that is after Katrina. What we get to observe is Republicanism in its purest form at work.

As to the recovery being tainted: The recovery can start when folks can be sure it's safe to go out to work and consume. The central precondition for that is testing. Ample, reliable, swift, with a near unlimited supply of swaps, reagents, chemicals. What we get to observe is another wild-west bonanza for private price gauging because Trump refuses to be involved, States (and the federal government) outbidding each other, taxpayers and healthcare premium payers fleeced up and down the country.

Did I mention, what we get to observe is Republicanism at work? Yep, I did. Privatizing public assets to be gobbled up by fat cats while leaving ordinary Americans, and communities of color in particular, to suffocate, literally and financially. I really, really cannot begin to understand how you find it in your own good self to decry "our incessant faction fighting" when governors from both parties beg Trump, after more than three years in office, finally to start to do his job.

The solution to most of your issues is unity. Every problem is not Trump..every failure is not Republican. We, the people, elect our govt. top to bottom. If we get bad governance--we did it to ourselves. Olde Europe....I think the issue is that you...and most on both sides of the divide..want a win--and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins. I note..that the Civil War became inevitable when the South--ruled by the Democratic party of the time...realized that they had permanently lost control of the Congress.

All you say of Trump is true...and is nothing that an election can't cure. But if your solution is to replace Trump's pandering to his faction with some Democrat pandering to their faction...the wheels are going to come off sooner or later. It has gotten to the point where Trump really can't win with the left..so why blame him when he doesn't even try?
If Trump gets involved...he's wrong..if he does not...he's wrong. I've seen both arguments made lately..sometimes by the same person!

I'm a King Log guy..not a King Stork type. I'm comfortable with the States taking the lead. In fact, the degree of independence that some states are exhibiting is downright healthy..IMO.

I liked the last half of your post and am proud of the executive leadership of many of the states. But,

and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins.

No way. The answer will not be found in one party rule. Both parties are severely lacking. I am not ready to give up on the two party system. Would like to return to checks and balances as deigned by the framers. We have virtual lockstep governance right now. How does it really look to you?

It looks as though the mechanisms of governance designed in the nineteenth century may not entirely fit the needs of the 21st. Our representative form of government and system of voting seems to be vulnerable to gaming and the powers that be are invested in keeping it that way. Gerrymandering is just one example. Electoral college is another.
I'd love a return to checks and balances..but factions, represented by lobbies..have empowered themselves by finding ways around them.

Citizen's United was a watershed moment in politics..The SCOTUS said the money has a greater voice than do the people. So there you have it.

Every single thing you posted in your response to my post against one party rule is undeniably true, and typed without showing a shred of party partisanship. I am over 65. What you want would be the end of government as we know it, based on our constitution. I am too old to usher it a new form of totalitarian rule for this country, thinking it will be better than governments in other countries headed by a single cabal. Would hate to see that handed down to my kids and grand kids. The challenges are not insurmountable and Biden will not be the solution in and of himself, but he can be a start. The direction we are going is wrong especially with trump, but I cannot give up on the wisdom of the founding fathers and put faith in yours either.

Replacing Trump with Biden would hasten the demise of the Republic. Biden threatened the American people. He has expressed his disdain for the Constitution. He can go to Hell. All the right has done is thump their chests. If Biden takes over, the right has to put up or shut up. So, if you wish a showdown for Liberty, Biden might be your man. Then it will be war or total capitulation.

A bit melodramatic for my tastes. I don't see it. Are you advocating threatening the country with civil war, started by the 35 percenters if the rest of us do not capitulate and allow your corrupt figurehead to remain? You should have your meds adjusted.

It's just something that people like to claim. A coping mechanism, perhaps. Reality is sometimes hard for people to deal with.

My reality is simple: If we don't put forth some leadership - and in record time, America will either change from a constitutional Republic to a socialist Democracy or be left with a nasty alternative. Unless someone comes forward to save Liberty and lead America out of darkness, then civil war or capitulation are the only alternatives. There are some people itching for an internal (un) civil confrontation, but for the wrong reasons (IMO.) I don't need conflict to cope. That does not rule out that you have to be pretty low on the IQ scale if you don't see the threat to Liberty that people like Biden pose. Trump's all over the board, so he is comedic relief until we get people united toward a common cause. I'm on the side of Liberty.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

Trump's all over the board, so he is comedic relief until we get people united toward a common cause.

I think he should be buried under a prison for treason for the rest of his miserable life and his namesake burned from the annals of American history for eternity. Ha. Ha. Ain't that funny?

 

[White 6]

I have to say...that Trump spoke the truth--hard and bitter--but 'it is what it is' sometimes. There is no question in my mind that our incessant faction fighting is hurting us. It crippled our decision making process in the beginning..and now it threatens to taint our recovery.

Not failed, but a state with issues - like every state has.

But, one of the issues is that one of the two major parties has abandoned governing altogether, rejects constitutional and legal limits and guidance, and serves the plutocracy to the detriment of everybody else.

Now, the "faction fighting" does hurt, but Trump's failure starting in mid-January, when his intelligence community warned him against the coming pandemic, which he didn't want to hear, has had nothing whatsoever to do with faction fighting. It's a "chief magistrate" who is every Reagan-Republican's wet dream, demonstrating that government is the problem in ways really unimaginable - and that is after Katrina. What we get to observe is Republicanism in its purest form at work.

As to the recovery being tainted: The recovery can start when folks can be sure it's safe to go out to work and consume. The central precondition for that is testing. Ample, reliable, swift, with a near unlimited supply of swaps, reagents, chemicals. What we get to observe is another wild-west bonanza for private price gauging because Trump refuses to be involved, States (and the federal government) outbidding each other, taxpayers and healthcare premium payers fleeced up and down the country.

Did I mention, what we get to observe is Republicanism at work? Yep, I did. Privatizing public assets to be gobbled up by fat cats while leaving ordinary Americans, and communities of color in particular, to suffocate, literally and financially. I really, really cannot begin to understand how you find it in your own good self to decry "our incessant faction fighting" when governors from both parties beg Trump, after more than three years in office, finally to start to do his job.

The solution to most of your issues is unity. Every problem is not Trump..every failure is not Republican. We, the people, elect our govt. top to bottom. If we get bad governance--we did it to ourselves. Olde Europe....I think the issue is that you...and most on both sides of the divide..want a win--and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins. I note..that the Civil War became inevitable when the South--ruled by the Democratic party of the time...realized that they had permanently lost control of the Congress.

All you say of Trump is true...and is nothing that an election can't cure. But if your solution is to replace Trump's pandering to his faction with some Democrat pandering to their faction...the wheels are going to come off sooner or later. It has gotten to the point where Trump really can't win with the left..so why blame him when he doesn't even try?
If Trump gets involved...he's wrong..if he does not...he's wrong. I've seen both arguments made lately..sometimes by the same person!

I'm a King Log guy..not a King Stork type. I'm comfortable with the States taking the lead. In fact, the degree of independence that some states are exhibiting is downright healthy..IMO.

I liked the last half of your post and am proud of the executive leadership of many of the states. But,

and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins.

No way. The answer will not be found in one party rule. Both parties are severely lacking. I am not ready to give up on the two party system. Would like to return to checks and balances as deigned by the framers. We have virtual lockstep governance right now. How does it really look to you?

It looks as though the mechanisms of governance designed in the nineteenth century may not entirely fit the needs of the 21st. Our representative form of government and system of voting seems to be vulnerable to gaming and the powers that be are invested in keeping it that way. Gerrymandering is just one example. Electoral college is another.
I'd love a return to checks and balances..but factions, represented by lobbies..have empowered themselves by finding ways around them.

Citizen's United was a watershed moment in politics..The SCOTUS said the money has a greater voice than do the people. So there you have it.

Every single thing you posted in your response to my post against one party rule is undeniably true, and typed without showing a shred of party partisanship. I am over 65. What you want would be the end of government as we know it, based on our constitution. I am too old to usher it a new form of totalitarian rule for this country, thinking it will be better than governments in other countries headed by a single cabal. Would hate to see that handed down to my kids and grand kids. The challenges are not insurmountable and Biden will not be the solution in and of himself, but he can be a start. The direction we are going is wrong especially with trump, but I cannot give up on the wisdom of the founding fathers and put faith in yours either.

Replacing Trump with Biden would hasten the demise of the Republic. Biden threatened the American people. He has expressed his disdain for the Constitution. He can go to Hell. All the right has done is thump their chests. If Biden takes over, the right has to put up or shut up. So, if you wish a showdown for Liberty, Biden might be your man. Then it will be war or total capitulation.

A bit melodramatic for my tastes. I don't see it. Are you advocating threatening the country with civil war, started by the 35 percenters if the rest of us do not capitulate and allow your corrupt figurehead to remain? You should have your meds adjusted.

It's just something that people like to claim. A coping mechanism, perhaps. Reality is sometimes hard for people to deal with.

The rest of us do not like to claim civil war as an option or advocate for civil war or threaten our countrymen with civil war. We cope just fine without it, and we will continue to do so, thank you very much.

 

[White 6]

I have to say...that Trump spoke the truth--hard and bitter--but 'it is what it is' sometimes. There is no question in my mind that our incessant faction fighting is hurting us. It crippled our decision making process in the beginning..and now it threatens to taint our recovery.

Not failed, but a state with issues - like every state has.

But, one of the issues is that one of the two major parties has abandoned governing altogether, rejects constitutional and legal limits and guidance, and serves the plutocracy to the detriment of everybody else.

Now, the "faction fighting" does hurt, but Trump's failure starting in mid-January, when his intelligence community warned him against the coming pandemic, which he didn't want to hear, has had nothing whatsoever to do with faction fighting. It's a "chief magistrate" who is every Reagan-Republican's wet dream, demonstrating that government is the problem in ways really unimaginable - and that is after Katrina. What we get to observe is Republicanism in its purest form at work.

As to the recovery being tainted: The recovery can start when folks can be sure it's safe to go out to work and consume. The central precondition for that is testing. Ample, reliable, swift, with a near unlimited supply of swaps, reagents, chemicals. What we get to observe is another wild-west bonanza for private price gauging because Trump refuses to be involved, States (and the federal government) outbidding each other, taxpayers and healthcare premium payers fleeced up and down the country.

Did I mention, what we get to observe is Republicanism at work? Yep, I did. Privatizing public assets to be gobbled up by fat cats while leaving ordinary Americans, and communities of color in particular, to suffocate, literally and financially. I really, really cannot begin to understand how you find it in your own good self to decry "our incessant faction fighting" when governors from both parties beg Trump, after more than three years in office, finally to start to do his job.

The solution to most of your issues is unity. Every problem is not Trump..every failure is not Republican. We, the people, elect our govt. top to bottom. If we get bad governance--we did it to ourselves. Olde Europe....I think the issue is that you...and most on both sides of the divide..want a win--and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins. I note..that the Civil War became inevitable when the South--ruled by the Democratic party of the time...realized that they had permanently lost control of the Congress.

All you say of Trump is true...and is nothing that an election can't cure. But if your solution is to replace Trump's pandering to his faction with some Democrat pandering to their faction...the wheels are going to come off sooner or later. It has gotten to the point where Trump really can't win with the left..so why blame him when he doesn't even try?
If Trump gets involved...he's wrong..if he does not...he's wrong. I've seen both arguments made lately..sometimes by the same person!

I'm a King Log guy..not a King Stork type. I'm comfortable with the States taking the lead. In fact, the degree of independence that some states are exhibiting is downright healthy..IMO.

I liked the last half of your post and am proud of the executive leadership of many of the states. But,

and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins.

No way. The answer will not be found in one party rule. Both parties are severely lacking. I am not ready to give up on the two party system. Would like to return to checks and balances as deigned by the framers. We have virtual lockstep governance right now. How does it really look to you?

It looks as though the mechanisms of governance designed in the nineteenth century may not entirely fit the needs of the 21st. Our representative form of government and system of voting seems to be vulnerable to gaming and the powers that be are invested in keeping it that way. Gerrymandering is just one example. Electoral college is another.
I'd love a return to checks and balances..but factions, represented by lobbies..have empowered themselves by finding ways around them.

Citizen's United was a watershed moment in politics..The SCOTUS said the money has a greater voice than do the people. So there you have it.

Every single thing you posted in your response to my post against one party rule is undeniably true, and typed without showing a shred of party partisanship. I am over 65. What you want would be the end of government as we know it, based on our constitution. I am too old to usher it a new form of totalitarian rule for this country, thinking it will be better than governments in other countries headed by a single cabal. Would hate to see that handed down to my kids and grand kids. The challenges are not insurmountable and Biden will not be the solution in and of himself, but he can be a start. The direction we are going is wrong especially with trump, but I cannot give up on the wisdom of the founding fathers and put faith in yours either.

Replacing Trump with Biden would hasten the demise of the Republic. Biden threatened the American people. He has expressed his disdain for the Constitution. He can go to Hell. All the right has done is thump their chests. If Biden takes over, the right has to put up or shut up. So, if you wish a showdown for Liberty, Biden might be your man. Then it will be war or total capitulation.

A bit melodramatic for my tastes. I don't see it. Are you advocating threatening the country with civil war, started by the 35 percenters if the rest of us do not capitulate and allow your corrupt figurehead to remain? You should have your meds adjusted.

I thought this was the clean debate zone??? You cannot make a point without accusing me of being on drugs? For the record, I do not have a "figurehead." This isn't too clean of a discussion, but I digress.

Donald Trump is a DEMOCRAT. He started out as a D; his best friends have a D beside their name and his ability to get what used to be constitutionalists and the right to co-opt the talking points of the far left is amazing. There are no real leaders on the left or the right; D or R; conservative or liberal. The average politician knows less about the history of this country or its Constitution than I know about nuclear physics. Joe Biden looks into a camera and threatened the American people. If that is what you want for a president, then you have far more problems than we can solve on a discussion board.

Democrats in general have made it plain that they are opposed to every foundational principle upon which the Republic rests. The Republicans, who once said they were for limited government, keep getting snookered by the Democrats and end up doing more damage to the Constitution by accident than the Democrats are able to accomplish on purpose. Trump comes along as an anomaly. He is a Democrat, a globalist (with strong ties to Rupert Murdoch as in Council on Foreign Relations), and a man who shows no kind of humility. I'm embarrassed that he has a Director of Infectious Diseases telling the American people to shelter in place, stay at home, do social distancing, etc. and then Trump advocates that people ignore the advice and protest so that the governors will open the states back up so we don't sink economically. I don't like the man because he is the most anti-gun president in the history on the United States and he does not understand the Constitution NOR does he give a rip about it.

With both sides being unfit to lead, our only option is to vote for the lesser of two evils. Putting Biden in as president would mean that there are no longer any pretenses about where America is in terms of government. Biden would signal the end of the Republic and the principles our forefathers fought, bled and died for. There's nothing melodramatic about it. As a free nation, America is on life support. America has more people in prison than any country on this planet; we have more drug addicts than any other nation - Americans consuming over 80 percent of the world's opioid supply for starters. For every drug addict in a mental health facility you have more than 10 drug addicts in prison. And now, we are leading the world in Covid 19 related deaths. Putting a senile wannabe dictator with no love of Liberty in the White House, especially during these times, would be the end of America. Vote for Trump. Buy America some time and then try finding some leadership that can get us back to moral, physical, and economic sanity.

Well, got to admit this was a much better post the threatening civil war. Knew you were capable of it. Many good points, as an independent, I see many truths. Both sides are pretty screwed up and have gotten worse during the last 3 to 11 years. They simply quit talking to each other as professionals, partly out of fear of being called Rino or Dino and getting primaried for trying to work together to solve problems and partly out of being vilified instead of disagreed with on any issue what so ever. The two parties would not agree it was a sunny day unless each had a majority looking out the window, and attempt to incite the populace to hate the other side for it.

The squeakiest wheel is supposed to get the grease. I this case the most loudmouthed squeakiest Democrats have got the Republicans (if there are any left) trying to grease the whole party for the sins of the loudmouth few. Not to say that there isn't a far left group fringe of idiots that have wet dreams of a socialist utopia, but the majority of the Democrats are relatively normal Americans that grew up when history was taught better and hold the constitution and beliefs of the founding fathers as you or I. What either of the two parties (if there are two parties) is not plain, by any means. Trump is just a carnival barker, and a good one. You are absolutely correct, he spent most of his life as a democrat, only changing because they would not give him a chance, He and they would have been equally dangerous, maybe more if they had.

How he came to still put any trust in Republican CDC Director (appointed by him in March of 2018) when the man backed Dr Fauci and Birx, just because he did not want everybody to get sick of Covid-19 before there was a cure or treatment, I do not know. He usually dump (even Republicans he appoints) people that either give him information he doesn't like on general principal or thinks he knows more (which us almost never the case) than they do. I just thank God he did finally listen, as I agree with social distancing. The reason for the shutdown is human nature. If you are working a job and it is you only source of income, you might be inclined to work sick and spread the disease to all you co-worker or become sickened and spread it after getting it from them, rather than forgo eating and paying your bills. The unrestricted spread of the disease had to be checked. Bitter medicine for the economy and many workers, but without a cure, or vaccine to prevent a disease that spreads as easily as this one or another way to get the separation necessary slow the spread, it was absolutely necessary.

I disagree about Biden. Definitely not senile. I have seen senility, dementia and even alzheimers up close. He ain't it. He has worked in the Senate for many years and has a history of working across the aisle if necessary, without fear of being primaried by his own party. He is no socialist and believes in the constitution far more the the man in office now. He is not the be all to end all, but he is better than the man we got and has much better character, hasn't taken multiple bankruptcies, Fkd around on three different wives, and lied about even knowing them or paying 2 of them off to keep them quiet long enough to get elected. He will not stand shoulder to shoulder with Putin against the information and judgement of 17 of our security and intelligence agency as will as intell committees in both houses of Congress. He won't brag of love letters from dictators or publicly support strongman totalitarian regimes and rulers. He never has before and is unlikely to start now, unlike our present president. who has done so since before election and continued while in office. Yes, I consider your denunciation of Biden melodramatic. The United State of America has a lot of history left, base on the writings of our founding fathers and the U.S. Constitution. Hopefully Joe Biden will take us a step back toward Democrats and Republicans, elected to office to work together fpr the common good, solving the problems of our country.
There now. That wasn't too rough for the Clean Debate Zone, was it?

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Trump's all over the board, so he is comedic relief until we get people united toward a common cause.

I think he should be buried under a prison for treason for the rest of his miserable life and his namesake burned from the annals of American history for eternity. Ha. Ha. Ain't that funny?

The problem is, you'd have to take Obama and both Bush presidents with him to have equal justice.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

I have to say...that Trump spoke the truth--hard and bitter--but 'it is what it is' sometimes. There is no question in my mind that our incessant faction fighting is hurting us. It crippled our decision making process in the beginning..and now it threatens to taint our recovery.

Not failed, but a state with issues - like every state has.

But, one of the issues is that one of the two major parties has abandoned governing altogether, rejects constitutional and legal limits and guidance, and serves the plutocracy to the detriment of everybody else.

Now, the "faction fighting" does hurt, but Trump's failure starting in mid-January, when his intelligence community warned him against the coming pandemic, which he didn't want to hear, has had nothing whatsoever to do with faction fighting. It's a "chief magistrate" who is every Reagan-Republican's wet dream, demonstrating that government is the problem in ways really unimaginable - and that is after Katrina. What we get to observe is Republicanism in its purest form at work.

As to the recovery being tainted: The recovery can start when folks can be sure it's safe to go out to work and consume. The central precondition for that is testing. Ample, reliable, swift, with a near unlimited supply of swaps, reagents, chemicals. What we get to observe is another wild-west bonanza for private price gauging because Trump refuses to be involved, States (and the federal government) outbidding each other, taxpayers and healthcare premium payers fleeced up and down the country.

Did I mention, what we get to observe is Republicanism at work? Yep, I did. Privatizing public assets to be gobbled up by fat cats while leaving ordinary Americans, and communities of color in particular, to suffocate, literally and financially. I really, really cannot begin to understand how you find it in your own good self to decry "our incessant faction fighting" when governors from both parties beg Trump, after more than three years in office, finally to start to do his job.

The solution to most of your issues is unity. Every problem is not Trump..every failure is not Republican. We, the people, elect our govt. top to bottom. If we get bad governance--we did it to ourselves. Olde Europe....I think the issue is that you...and most on both sides of the divide..want a win--and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins. I note..that the Civil War became inevitable when the South--ruled by the Democratic party of the time...realized that they had permanently lost control of the Congress.

All you say of Trump is true...and is nothing that an election can't cure. But if your solution is to replace Trump's pandering to his faction with some Democrat pandering to their faction...the wheels are going to come off sooner or later. It has gotten to the point where Trump really can't win with the left..so why blame him when he doesn't even try?
If Trump gets involved...he's wrong..if he does not...he's wrong. I've seen both arguments made lately..sometimes by the same person!

I'm a King Log guy..not a King Stork type. I'm comfortable with the States taking the lead. In fact, the degree of independence that some states are exhibiting is downright healthy..IMO.

I liked the last half of your post and am proud of the executive leadership of many of the states. But,

and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins.

No way. The answer will not be found in one party rule. Both parties are severely lacking. I am not ready to give up on the two party system. Would like to return to checks and balances as deigned by the framers. We have virtual lockstep governance right now. How does it really look to you?

It looks as though the mechanisms of governance designed in the nineteenth century may not entirely fit the needs of the 21st. Our representative form of government and system of voting seems to be vulnerable to gaming and the powers that be are invested in keeping it that way. Gerrymandering is just one example. Electoral college is another.
I'd love a return to checks and balances..but factions, represented by lobbies..have empowered themselves by finding ways around them.

Citizen's United was a watershed moment in politics..The SCOTUS said the money has a greater voice than do the people. So there you have it.

Every single thing you posted in your response to my post against one party rule is undeniably true, and typed without showing a shred of party partisanship. I am over 65. What you want would be the end of government as we know it, based on our constitution. I am too old to usher it a new form of totalitarian rule for this country, thinking it will be better than governments in other countries headed by a single cabal. Would hate to see that handed down to my kids and grand kids. The challenges are not insurmountable and Biden will not be the solution in and of himself, but he can be a start. The direction we are going is wrong especially with trump, but I cannot give up on the wisdom of the founding fathers and put faith in yours either.

Replacing Trump with Biden would hasten the demise of the Republic. Biden threatened the American people. He has expressed his disdain for the Constitution. He can go to Hell. All the right has done is thump their chests. If Biden takes over, the right has to put up or shut up. So, if you wish a showdown for Liberty, Biden might be your man. Then it will be war or total capitulation.

A bit melodramatic for my tastes. I don't see it. Are you advocating threatening the country with civil war, started by the 35 percenters if the rest of us do not capitulate and allow your corrupt figurehead to remain? You should have your meds adjusted.

It's just something that people like to claim. A coping mechanism, perhaps. Reality is sometimes hard for people to deal with.

The rest of us do not like to claim civil war as an option or advocate for civil war or threaten our countrymen with civil war. We cope just fine without it, and we will continue to do so, thank you very much.

Some have only token resistance to tyranny and have bought into liberalism hook, line, and sinker. They simply pretend that they give a rat's behind about the Constitution.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

I have to say...that Trump spoke the truth--hard and bitter--but 'it is what it is' sometimes. There is no question in my mind that our incessant faction fighting is hurting us. It crippled our decision making process in the beginning..and now it threatens to taint our recovery.

Not failed, but a state with issues - like every state has.

But, one of the issues is that one of the two major parties has abandoned governing altogether, rejects constitutional and legal limits and guidance, and serves the plutocracy to the detriment of everybody else.

Now, the "faction fighting" does hurt, but Trump's failure starting in mid-January, when his intelligence community warned him against the coming pandemic, which he didn't want to hear, has had nothing whatsoever to do with faction fighting. It's a "chief magistrate" who is every Reagan-Republican's wet dream, demonstrating that government is the problem in ways really unimaginable - and that is after Katrina. What we get to observe is Republicanism in its purest form at work.

As to the recovery being tainted: The recovery can start when folks can be sure it's safe to go out to work and consume. The central precondition for that is testing. Ample, reliable, swift, with a near unlimited supply of swaps, reagents, chemicals. What we get to observe is another wild-west bonanza for private price gauging because Trump refuses to be involved, States (and the federal government) outbidding each other, taxpayers and healthcare premium payers fleeced up and down the country.

Did I mention, what we get to observe is Republicanism at work? Yep, I did. Privatizing public assets to be gobbled up by fat cats while leaving ordinary Americans, and communities of color in particular, to suffocate, literally and financially. I really, really cannot begin to understand how you find it in your own good self to decry "our incessant faction fighting" when governors from both parties beg Trump, after more than three years in office, finally to start to do his job.

The solution to most of your issues is unity. Every problem is not Trump..every failure is not Republican. We, the people, elect our govt. top to bottom. If we get bad governance--we did it to ourselves. Olde Europe....I think the issue is that you...and most on both sides of the divide..want a win--and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins. I note..that the Civil War became inevitable when the South--ruled by the Democratic party of the time...realized that they had permanently lost control of the Congress.

All you say of Trump is true...and is nothing that an election can't cure. But if your solution is to replace Trump's pandering to his faction with some Democrat pandering to their faction...the wheels are going to come off sooner or later. It has gotten to the point where Trump really can't win with the left..so why blame him when he doesn't even try?
If Trump gets involved...he's wrong..if he does not...he's wrong. I've seen both arguments made lately..sometimes by the same person!

I'm a King Log guy..not a King Stork type. I'm comfortable with the States taking the lead. In fact, the degree of independence that some states are exhibiting is downright healthy..IMO.

I liked the last half of your post and am proud of the executive leadership of many of the states. But,

and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins.

No way. The answer will not be found in one party rule. Both parties are severely lacking. I am not ready to give up on the two party system. Would like to return to checks and balances as deigned by the framers. We have virtual lockstep governance right now. How does it really look to you?

It looks as though the mechanisms of governance designed in the nineteenth century may not entirely fit the needs of the 21st. Our representative form of government and system of voting seems to be vulnerable to gaming and the powers that be are invested in keeping it that way. Gerrymandering is just one example. Electoral college is another.
I'd love a return to checks and balances..but factions, represented by lobbies..have empowered themselves by finding ways around them.

Citizen's United was a watershed moment in politics..The SCOTUS said the money has a greater voice than do the people. So there you have it.

Every single thing you posted in your response to my post against one party rule is undeniably true, and typed without showing a shred of party partisanship. I am over 65. What you want would be the end of government as we know it, based on our constitution. I am too old to usher it a new form of totalitarian rule for this country, thinking it will be better than governments in other countries headed by a single cabal. Would hate to see that handed down to my kids and grand kids. The challenges are not insurmountable and Biden will not be the solution in and of himself, but he can be a start. The direction we are going is wrong especially with trump, but I cannot give up on the wisdom of the founding fathers and put faith in yours either.

Replacing Trump with Biden would hasten the demise of the Republic. Biden threatened the American people. He has expressed his disdain for the Constitution. He can go to Hell. All the right has done is thump their chests. If Biden takes over, the right has to put up or shut up. So, if you wish a showdown for Liberty, Biden might be your man. Then it will be war or total capitulation.

A bit melodramatic for my tastes. I don't see it. Are you advocating threatening the country with civil war, started by the 35 percenters if the rest of us do not capitulate and allow your corrupt figurehead to remain? You should have your meds adjusted.

I thought this was the clean debate zone??? You cannot make a point without accusing me of being on drugs? For the record, I do not have a "figurehead." This isn't too clean of a discussion, but I digress.

Donald Trump is a DEMOCRAT. He started out as a D; his best friends have a D beside their name and his ability to get what used to be constitutionalists and the right to co-opt the talking points of the far left is amazing. There are no real leaders on the left or the right; D or R; conservative or liberal. The average politician knows less about the history of this country or its Constitution than I know about nuclear physics. Joe Biden looks into a camera and threatened the American people. If that is what you want for a president, then you have far more problems than we can solve on a discussion board.

Democrats in general have made it plain that they are opposed to every foundational principle upon which the Republic rests. The Republicans, who once said they were for limited government, keep getting snookered by the Democrats and end up doing more damage to the Constitution by accident than the Democrats are able to accomplish on purpose. Trump comes along as an anomaly. He is a Democrat, a globalist (with strong ties to Rupert Murdoch as in Council on Foreign Relations), and a man who shows no kind of humility. I'm embarrassed that he has a Director of Infectious Diseases telling the American people to shelter in place, stay at home, do social distancing, etc. and then Trump advocates that people ignore the advice and protest so that the governors will open the states back up so we don't sink economically. I don't like the man because he is the most anti-gun president in the history on the United States and he does not understand the Constitution NOR does he give a rip about it.

With both sides being unfit to lead, our only option is to vote for the lesser of two evils. Putting Biden in as president would mean that there are no longer any pretenses about where America is in terms of government. Biden would signal the end of the Republic and the principles our forefathers fought, bled and died for. There's nothing melodramatic about it. As a free nation, America is on life support. America has more people in prison than any country on this planet; we have more drug addicts than any other nation - Americans consuming over 80 percent of the world's opioid supply for starters. For every drug addict in a mental health facility you have more than 10 drug addicts in prison. And now, we are leading the world in Covid 19 related deaths. Putting a senile wannabe dictator with no love of Liberty in the White House, especially during these times, would be the end of America. Vote for Trump. Buy America some time and then try finding some leadership that can get us back to moral, physical, and economic sanity.

Well, got to admit this was a much better post the threatening civil war. Knew you were capable of it. Many good points, as an independent, I see many truths. Both sides are pretty screwed up and have gotten worse during the last 3 to 11 years. They simply quit talking to each other as professionals, partly out of fear of being called Rino or Dino and getting primaried for trying to work together to solve problems and partly out of being vilified instead of disagreed with on any issue what so ever. The two parties would not agree it was a sunny day unless each had a majority looking out the window, and attempt to incite the populace to hate the other side for it.

The squeakiest wheel is supposed to get the grease. I this case the most loudmouthed squeakiest Democrats have got the Republicans (if there are any left) trying to grease the whole party for the sins of the loudmouth few. Not to say that there isn't a far left group fringe of idiots that have wet dreams of a socialist utopia, but the majority of the Democrats are relatively normal Americans that grew up when history was taught better and hold the constitution and beliefs of the founding fathers as you or I. What either of the two parties (if there are two parties) is not plain, by any means. Trump is just a carnival barker, and a good one. You are absolutely correct, he spent most of his life as a democrat, only changing because they would not give him a chance, He and they would have been equally dangerous, maybe more if they had.

How he came to still put any trust in Republican CDC Director (appointed by him in March of 2018) when the man backed Dr Fauci and Birx, just because he did not want everybody to get sick of Covid-19 before there was a cure or treatment, I do not know. He usually dump (even Republicans he appoints) people that either give him information he doesn't like on general principal or thinks he knows more (which us almost never the case) than they do. I just thank God he did finally listen, as I agree with social distancing. The reason for the shutdown is human nature. If you are working a job and it is you only source of income, you might be inclined to work sick and spread the disease to all you co-worker or become sickened and spread it after getting it from them, rather than forgo eating and paying your bills. The unrestricted spread of the disease had to be checked. Bitter medicine for the economy and many workers, but without a cure, or vaccine to prevent a disease that spreads as easily as this one or another way to get the separation necessary slow the spread, it was absolutely necessary.

I disagree about Biden. Definitely not senile. I have seen senility, dementia and even alzheimers up close. He ain't it. He has worked in the Senate for many years and has a history of working across the aisle if necessary, without fear of being primaried by his own party. He is no socialist and believes in the constitution far more the the man in office now. He is not the be all to end all, but he is better than the man we got and has much better character, hasn't taken multiple bankruptcies, Fkd around on three different wives, and lied about even knowing them or paying 2 of them off to keep them quiet long enough to get elected. He will not stand shoulder to shoulder with Putin against the information and judgement of 17 of our security and intelligence agency as will as intell committees in both houses of Congress. He won't brag of love letters from dictators or publicly support strongman totalitarian regimes and rulers. He never has before and is unlikely to start now, unlike our present president. who has done so since before election and continued while in office. Yes, I consider your denunciation of Biden melodramatic. The United State of America has a lot of history left, base on the writings of our founding fathers and the U.S. Constitution. Hopefully Joe Biden will take us a step back toward Democrats and Republicans, elected to office to work together fpr the common good, solving the problems of our country.
There now. That wasn't too rough for the Clean Debate Zone, was it?

When Biden looked into a camera and threatened those that disagree with him, he proved he was unfit for public office.



I don't know what is acceptable for the CDZ. I think if I counter-punched in the same spirit, someone would be there to ban me or at least remove my response.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

I have to say...that Trump spoke the truth--hard and bitter--but 'it is what it is' sometimes. There is no question in my mind that our incessant faction fighting is hurting us. It crippled our decision making process in the beginning..and now it threatens to taint our recovery.

Not failed, but a state with issues - like every state has.

But, one of the issues is that one of the two major parties has abandoned governing altogether, rejects constitutional and legal limits and guidance, and serves the plutocracy to the detriment of everybody else.

Now, the "faction fighting" does hurt, but Trump's failure starting in mid-January, when his intelligence community warned him against the coming pandemic, which he didn't want to hear, has had nothing whatsoever to do with faction fighting. It's a "chief magistrate" who is every Reagan-Republican's wet dream, demonstrating that government is the problem in ways really unimaginable - and that is after Katrina. What we get to observe is Republicanism in its purest form at work.

As to the recovery being tainted: The recovery can start when folks can be sure it's safe to go out to work and consume. The central precondition for that is testing. Ample, reliable, swift, with a near unlimited supply of swaps, reagents, chemicals. What we get to observe is another wild-west bonanza for private price gauging because Trump refuses to be involved, States (and the federal government) outbidding each other, taxpayers and healthcare premium payers fleeced up and down the country.

Did I mention, what we get to observe is Republicanism at work? Yep, I did. Privatizing public assets to be gobbled up by fat cats while leaving ordinary Americans, and communities of color in particular, to suffocate, literally and financially. I really, really cannot begin to understand how you find it in your own good self to decry "our incessant faction fighting" when governors from both parties beg Trump, after more than three years in office, finally to start to do his job.

The solution to most of your issues is unity. Every problem is not Trump..every failure is not Republican. We, the people, elect our govt. top to bottom. If we get bad governance--we did it to ourselves. Olde Europe....I think the issue is that you...and most on both sides of the divide..want a win--and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins. I note..that the Civil War became inevitable when the South--ruled by the Democratic party of the time...realized that they had permanently lost control of the Congress.

All you say of Trump is true...and is nothing that an election can't cure. But if your solution is to replace Trump's pandering to his faction with some Democrat pandering to their faction...the wheels are going to come off sooner or later. It has gotten to the point where Trump really can't win with the left..so why blame him when he doesn't even try?
If Trump gets involved...he's wrong..if he does not...he's wrong. I've seen both arguments made lately..sometimes by the same person!

I'm a King Log guy..not a King Stork type. I'm comfortable with the States taking the lead. In fact, the degree of independence that some states are exhibiting is downright healthy..IMO.

I liked the last half of your post and am proud of the executive leadership of many of the states. But,

and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins.

No way. The answer will not be found in one party rule. Both parties are severely lacking. I am not ready to give up on the two party system. Would like to return to checks and balances as deigned by the framers. We have virtual lockstep governance right now. How does it really look to you?

It looks as though the mechanisms of governance designed in the nineteenth century may not entirely fit the needs of the 21st. Our representative form of government and system of voting seems to be vulnerable to gaming and the powers that be are invested in keeping it that way. Gerrymandering is just one example. Electoral college is another.
I'd love a return to checks and balances..but factions, represented by lobbies..have empowered themselves by finding ways around them.

Citizen's United was a watershed moment in politics..The SCOTUS said the money has a greater voice than do the people. So there you have it.

Every single thing you posted in your response to my post against one party rule is undeniably true, and typed without showing a shred of party partisanship. I am over 65. What you want would be the end of government as we know it, based on our constitution. I am too old to usher it a new form of totalitarian rule for this country, thinking it will be better than governments in other countries headed by a single cabal. Would hate to see that handed down to my kids and grand kids. The challenges are not insurmountable and Biden will not be the solution in and of himself, but he can be a start. The direction we are going is wrong especially with trump, but I cannot give up on the wisdom of the founding fathers and put faith in yours either.

Replacing Trump with Biden would hasten the demise of the Republic. Biden threatened the American people. He has expressed his disdain for the Constitution. He can go to Hell. All the right has done is thump their chests. If Biden takes over, the right has to put up or shut up. So, if you wish a showdown for Liberty, Biden might be your man. Then it will be war or total capitulation.

A bit melodramatic for my tastes. I don't see it. Are you advocating threatening the country with civil war, started by the 35 percenters if the rest of us do not capitulate and allow your corrupt figurehead to remain? You should have your meds adjusted.

It's just something that people like to claim. A coping mechanism, perhaps. Reality is sometimes hard for people to deal with.

The rest of us do not like to claim civil war as an option or advocate for civil war or threaten our countrymen with civil war. We cope just fine without it, and we will continue to do so, thank you very much.

Some have only token resistance to tyranny and have bought into liberalism hook, line, and sinker. They simply pretend that they give a rat's behind about the Constitution.

The Constitution was drafted by liberals....progressives...even...***gasp*** Radicals--most of the authoritarian right were Tories..fled to Canada...or busy reinventing themselves.
The problem is that, for intents and purposes, both sides have their own Constitution. and it barely matches!

 

[White 6]

I have to say...that Trump spoke the truth--hard and bitter--but 'it is what it is' sometimes. There is no question in my mind that our incessant faction fighting is hurting us. It crippled our decision making process in the beginning..and now it threatens to taint our recovery.

Not failed, but a state with issues - like every state has.

But, one of the issues is that one of the two major parties has abandoned governing altogether, rejects constitutional and legal limits and guidance, and serves the plutocracy to the detriment of everybody else.

Now, the "faction fighting" does hurt, but Trump's failure starting in mid-January, when his intelligence community warned him against the coming pandemic, which he didn't want to hear, has had nothing whatsoever to do with faction fighting. It's a "chief magistrate" who is every Reagan-Republican's wet dream, demonstrating that government is the problem in ways really unimaginable - and that is after Katrina. What we get to observe is Republicanism in its purest form at work.

As to the recovery being tainted: The recovery can start when folks can be sure it's safe to go out to work and consume. The central precondition for that is testing. Ample, reliable, swift, with a near unlimited supply of swaps, reagents, chemicals. What we get to observe is another wild-west bonanza for private price gauging because Trump refuses to be involved, States (and the federal government) outbidding each other, taxpayers and healthcare premium payers fleeced up and down the country.

Did I mention, what we get to observe is Republicanism at work? Yep, I did. Privatizing public assets to be gobbled up by fat cats while leaving ordinary Americans, and communities of color in particular, to suffocate, literally and financially. I really, really cannot begin to understand how you find it in your own good self to decry "our incessant faction fighting" when governors from both parties beg Trump, after more than three years in office, finally to start to do his job.

The solution to most of your issues is unity. Every problem is not Trump..every failure is not Republican. We, the people, elect our govt. top to bottom. If we get bad governance--we did it to ourselves. Olde Europe....I think the issue is that you...and most on both sides of the divide..want a win--and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins. I note..that the Civil War became inevitable when the South--ruled by the Democratic party of the time...realized that they had permanently lost control of the Congress.

All you say of Trump is true...and is nothing that an election can't cure. But if your solution is to replace Trump's pandering to his faction with some Democrat pandering to their faction...the wheels are going to come off sooner or later. It has gotten to the point where Trump really can't win with the left..so why blame him when he doesn't even try?
If Trump gets involved...he's wrong..if he does not...he's wrong. I've seen both arguments made lately..sometimes by the same person!

I'm a King Log guy..not a King Stork type. I'm comfortable with the States taking the lead. In fact, the degree of independence that some states are exhibiting is downright healthy..IMO.

I liked the last half of your post and am proud of the executive leadership of many of the states. But,

and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins.

No way. The answer will not be found in one party rule. Both parties are severely lacking. I am not ready to give up on the two party system. Would like to return to checks and balances as deigned by the framers. We have virtual lockstep governance right now. How does it really look to you?

It looks as though the mechanisms of governance designed in the nineteenth century may not entirely fit the needs of the 21st. Our representative form of government and system of voting seems to be vulnerable to gaming and the powers that be are invested in keeping it that way. Gerrymandering is just one example. Electoral college is another.
I'd love a return to checks and balances..but factions, represented by lobbies..have empowered themselves by finding ways around them.

Citizen's United was a watershed moment in politics..The SCOTUS said the money has a greater voice than do the people. So there you have it.

Every single thing you posted in your response to my post against one party rule is undeniably true, and typed without showing a shred of party partisanship. I am over 65. What you want would be the end of government as we know it, based on our constitution. I am too old to usher it a new form of totalitarian rule for this country, thinking it will be better than governments in other countries headed by a single cabal. Would hate to see that handed down to my kids and grand kids. The challenges are not insurmountable and Biden will not be the solution in and of himself, but he can be a start. The direction we are going is wrong especially with trump, but I cannot give up on the wisdom of the founding fathers and put faith in yours either.

Replacing Trump with Biden would hasten the demise of the Republic. Biden threatened the American people. He has expressed his disdain for the Constitution. He can go to Hell. All the right has done is thump their chests. If Biden takes over, the right has to put up or shut up. So, if you wish a showdown for Liberty, Biden might be your man. Then it will be war or total capitulation.

A bit melodramatic for my tastes. I don't see it. Are you advocating threatening the country with civil war, started by the 35 percenters if the rest of us do not capitulate and allow your corrupt figurehead to remain? You should have your meds adjusted.

I thought this was the clean debate zone??? You cannot make a point without accusing me of being on drugs? For the record, I do not have a "figurehead." This isn't too clean of a discussion, but I digress.

Donald Trump is a DEMOCRAT. He started out as a D; his best friends have a D beside their name and his ability to get what used to be constitutionalists and the right to co-opt the talking points of the far left is amazing. There are no real leaders on the left or the right; D or R; conservative or liberal. The average politician knows less about the history of this country or its Constitution than I know about nuclear physics. Joe Biden looks into a camera and threatened the American people. If that is what you want for a president, then you have far more problems than we can solve on a discussion board.

Democrats in general have made it plain that they are opposed to every foundational principle upon which the Republic rests. The Republicans, who once said they were for limited government, keep getting snookered by the Democrats and end up doing more damage to the Constitution by accident than the Democrats are able to accomplish on purpose. Trump comes along as an anomaly. He is a Democrat, a globalist (with strong ties to Rupert Murdoch as in Council on Foreign Relations), and a man who shows no kind of humility. I'm embarrassed that he has a Director of Infectious Diseases telling the American people to shelter in place, stay at home, do social distancing, etc. and then Trump advocates that people ignore the advice and protest so that the governors will open the states back up so we don't sink economically. I don't like the man because he is the most anti-gun president in the history on the United States and he does not understand the Constitution NOR does he give a rip about it.

With both sides being unfit to lead, our only option is to vote for the lesser of two evils. Putting Biden in as president would mean that there are no longer any pretenses about where America is in terms of government. Biden would signal the end of the Republic and the principles our forefathers fought, bled and died for. There's nothing melodramatic about it. As a free nation, America is on life support. America has more people in prison than any country on this planet; we have more drug addicts than any other nation - Americans consuming over 80 percent of the world's opioid supply for starters. For every drug addict in a mental health facility you have more than 10 drug addicts in prison. And now, we are leading the world in Covid 19 related deaths. Putting a senile wannabe dictator with no love of Liberty in the White House, especially during these times, would be the end of America. Vote for Trump. Buy America some time and then try finding some leadership that can get us back to moral, physical, and economic sanity.

Well, got to admit this was a much better post the threatening civil war. Knew you were capable of it. Many good points, as an independent, I see many truths. Both sides are pretty screwed up and have gotten worse during the last 3 to 11 years. They simply quit talking to each other as professionals, partly out of fear of being called Rino or Dino and getting primaried for trying to work together to solve problems and partly out of being vilified instead of disagreed with on any issue what so ever. The two parties would not agree it was a sunny day unless each had a majority looking out the window, and attempt to incite the populace to hate the other side for it.

The squeakiest wheel is supposed to get the grease. I this case the most loudmouthed squeakiest Democrats have got the Republicans (if there are any left) trying to grease the whole party for the sins of the loudmouth few. Not to say that there isn't a far left group fringe of idiots that have wet dreams of a socialist utopia, but the majority of the Democrats are relatively normal Americans that grew up when history was taught better and hold the constitution and beliefs of the founding fathers as you or I. What either of the two parties (if there are two parties) is not plain, by any means. Trump is just a carnival barker, and a good one. You are absolutely correct, he spent most of his life as a democrat, only changing because they would not give him a chance, He and they would have been equally dangerous, maybe more if they had.

How he came to still put any trust in Republican CDC Director (appointed by him in March of 2018) when the man backed Dr Fauci and Birx, just because he did not want everybody to get sick of Covid-19 before there was a cure or treatment, I do not know. He usually dump (even Republicans he appoints) people that either give him information he doesn't like on general principal or thinks he knows more (which us almost never the case) than they do. I just thank God he did finally listen, as I agree with social distancing. The reason for the shutdown is human nature. If you are working a job and it is you only source of income, you might be inclined to work sick and spread the disease to all you co-worker or become sickened and spread it after getting it from them, rather than forgo eating and paying your bills. The unrestricted spread of the disease had to be checked. Bitter medicine for the economy and many workers, but without a cure, or vaccine to prevent a disease that spreads as easily as this one or another way to get the separation necessary slow the spread, it was absolutely necessary.

I disagree about Biden. Definitely not senile. I have seen senility, dementia and even alzheimers up close. He ain't it. He has worked in the Senate for many years and has a history of working across the aisle if necessary, without fear of being primaried by his own party. He is no socialist and believes in the constitution far more the the man in office now. He is not the be all to end all, but he is better than the man we got and has much better character, hasn't taken multiple bankruptcies, Fkd around on three different wives, and lied about even knowing them or paying 2 of them off to keep them quiet long enough to get elected. He will not stand shoulder to shoulder with Putin against the information and judgement of 17 of our security and intelligence agency as will as intell committees in both houses of Congress. He won't brag of love letters from dictators or publicly support strongman totalitarian regimes and rulers. He never has before and is unlikely to start now, unlike our present president. who has done so since before election and continued while in office. Yes, I consider your denunciation of Biden melodramatic. The United State of America has a lot of history left, base on the writings of our founding fathers and the U.S. Constitution. Hopefully Joe Biden will take us a step back toward Democrats and Republicans, elected to office to work together fpr the common good, solving the problems of our country.
There now. That wasn't too rough for the Clean Debate Zone, was it?

When Biden looked into a camera and threatened those that disagree with him, he proved he was unfit for public office.



I don't know what is acceptable for the CDZ. I think if I counter-punched in the same spirit, someone would be there to ban me or at least remove my response.

You have lived through 3 years and 2 months of trump and you think that is a dis qualifier? You are indeed a drama queen, honey.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

I have to say...that Trump spoke the truth--hard and bitter--but 'it is what it is' sometimes. There is no question in my mind that our incessant faction fighting is hurting us. It crippled our decision making process in the beginning..and now it threatens to taint our recovery.

Not failed, but a state with issues - like every state has.

But, one of the issues is that one of the two major parties has abandoned governing altogether, rejects constitutional and legal limits and guidance, and serves the plutocracy to the detriment of everybody else.

Now, the "faction fighting" does hurt, but Trump's failure starting in mid-January, when his intelligence community warned him against the coming pandemic, which he didn't want to hear, has had nothing whatsoever to do with faction fighting. It's a "chief magistrate" who is every Reagan-Republican's wet dream, demonstrating that government is the problem in ways really unimaginable - and that is after Katrina. What we get to observe is Republicanism in its purest form at work.

As to the recovery being tainted: The recovery can start when folks can be sure it's safe to go out to work and consume. The central precondition for that is testing. Ample, reliable, swift, with a near unlimited supply of swaps, reagents, chemicals. What we get to observe is another wild-west bonanza for private price gauging because Trump refuses to be involved, States (and the federal government) outbidding each other, taxpayers and healthcare premium payers fleeced up and down the country.

Did I mention, what we get to observe is Republicanism at work? Yep, I did. Privatizing public assets to be gobbled up by fat cats while leaving ordinary Americans, and communities of color in particular, to suffocate, literally and financially. I really, really cannot begin to understand how you find it in your own good self to decry "our incessant faction fighting" when governors from both parties beg Trump, after more than three years in office, finally to start to do his job.

The solution to most of your issues is unity. Every problem is not Trump..every failure is not Republican. We, the people, elect our govt. top to bottom. If we get bad governance--we did it to ourselves. Olde Europe....I think the issue is that you...and most on both sides of the divide..want a win--and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins. I note..that the Civil War became inevitable when the South--ruled by the Democratic party of the time...realized that they had permanently lost control of the Congress.

All you say of Trump is true...and is nothing that an election can't cure. But if your solution is to replace Trump's pandering to his faction with some Democrat pandering to their faction...the wheels are going to come off sooner or later. It has gotten to the point where Trump really can't win with the left..so why blame him when he doesn't even try?
If Trump gets involved...he's wrong..if he does not...he's wrong. I've seen both arguments made lately..sometimes by the same person!

I'm a King Log guy..not a King Stork type. I'm comfortable with the States taking the lead. In fact, the degree of independence that some states are exhibiting is downright healthy..IMO.

I liked the last half of your post and am proud of the executive leadership of many of the states. But,

and it just ain't coming. Until the one faction has total control..super-majority status all three branches---no one wins.

No way. The answer will not be found in one party rule. Both parties are severely lacking. I am not ready to give up on the two party system. Would like to return to checks and balances as deigned by the framers. We have virtual lockstep governance right now. How does it really look to you?

It looks as though the mechanisms of governance designed in the nineteenth century may not entirely fit the needs of the 21st. Our representative form of government and system of voting seems to be vulnerable to gaming and the powers that be are invested in keeping it that way. Gerrymandering is just one example. Electoral college is another.
I'd love a return to checks and balances..but factions, represented by lobbies..have empowered themselves by finding ways around them.

Citizen's United was a watershed moment in politics..The SCOTUS said the money has a greater voice than do the people. So there you have it.

Every single thing you posted in your response to my post against one party rule is undeniably true, and typed without showing a shred of party partisanship. I am over 65. What you want would be the end of government as we know it, based on our constitution. I am too old to usher it a new form of totalitarian rule for this country, thinking it will be better than governments in other countries headed by a single cabal. Would hate to see that handed down to my kids and grand kids. The challenges are not insurmountable and Biden will not be the solution in and of himself, but he can be a start. The direction we are going is wrong especially with trump, but I cannot give up on the wisdom of the founding fathers and put faith in yours either.

Replacing Trump with Biden would hasten the demise of the Republic. Biden threatened the American people. He has expressed his disdain for the Constitution. He can go to Hell. All the right has done is thump their chests. If Biden takes over, the right has to put up or shut up. So, if you wish a showdown for Liberty, Biden might be your man. Then it will be war or total capitulation.

A bit melodramatic for my tastes. I don't see it. Are you advocating threatening the country with civil war, started by the 35 percenters if the rest of us do not capitulate and allow your corrupt figurehead to remain? You should have your meds adjusted.

It's just something that people like to claim. A coping mechanism, perhaps. Reality is sometimes hard for people to deal with.

The rest of us do not like to claim civil war as an option or advocate for civil war or threaten our countrymen with civil war. We cope just fine without it, and we will continue to do so, thank you very much.

Some have only token resistance to tyranny and have bought into liberalism hook, line, and sinker. They simply pretend that they give a rat's behind about the Constitution.

The Constitution was drafted by liberals....progressives...even...***gasp*** Radicals--most of the authoritarian right were Tories..fled to Canada...or busy reinventing themselves.
The problem is that, for intents and purposes, both sides have their own Constitution. and it barely matches!

Quite the disinformation artist you try to be with semantics. If Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer took over the whole political scene and removed the Republicans from public office, ultimately the Democrats would be over-taken by another party. THEN, that party would be considered the liberals and progs.

The bottom line is, the Democrats hate the foundational principles upon which this Republic rests. Right now the Ds and the Rs are actually the same... just one hand washing the other.