America used to give a damn redux

[S.J.]

We need a president, a real one.

We have one. You are just too much of a hack to realize it. Now, go back to sleep.

No we don't. We have a damn dictator and you know it. You're just too much of a sycophant to admit it.

 

[Politico]

None of that is relevant to NASA, and I disagree that we have become a land of pussies. There are no pussies on the space station, and very few in our military. Do try to stay on topic.

No there are plenty of pussies out there. I saw them die all the time in the military and every day when I turn on the tv or set foot out my door.

We need a president, a real one.

Speaking of staying on topic. How about you keep your white supremacist BS out of the thread. Most of the pussies I meet are white knuckle draggers.

 

[Bfgrn]

Well, the first thing you can do is to support their efforts. They can't do anything without public support. Support your local astronomy club. They provide outreach to the public, and nearly all of them are huge supporters of NASA. The more people out there talking to the public about the issues, the more the public will support NASA's efforts. It's a start.

I'm working on it man. That's why I started the other thread. NASA is one of the most important Agencies in the U.S. It should be regarded way above agencies like the FBI and CIA.

I don't know about that, but I agree that it needs to get more support than it gets. NASA is at the forefront of science in this country. But they need more public support. And we can all help them in that regard.

NASA changed the world. It was the dagger in the chest of the Soviet Union. And then we killed it. And now it has to ask Russia for permission to put someone in outer space. It's pathetic.

We don't live in those days anymore, dude. Boogey men are not a valid reason for spending 100 billion dollars on space anymore. It's the science, dummy. And that's what we are doing today.

Sure, but that does not take away from the simple (and pathetic) fact that we scrapped our space capabilities VERY prematurely. You don't cancel a program and then ask for its replacement - you get the replacement first.

the simple fact that we have to ask another nation to go into space is unacceptable. If we want to stay on the bleeding edge ahead of the world then we NEED to be capable. Oldschool is quite right in his assessment here and it has NOTHING to do with a 'boogeyman' but everything to do with Americans pushing the edge and staying ahead.

Then why did G.W. Bush cancel the Shuttle program?

 

[candycorn]

None of that is relevant to NASA, and I disagree that we have become a land of pussies. There are no pussies on the space station, and very few in our military. Do try to stay on topic.

I think I am. The majority of America doesn't give a damn. I wish we could come up with a reason for them to start to.

Well, the first thing you can do is to support their efforts. They can't do anything without public support. Support your local astronomy club. They provide outreach to the public, and nearly all of them are huge supporters of NASA. The more people out there talking to the public about the issues, the more the public will support NASA's efforts. It's a start.

I'm working on it man. That's why I started the other thread. NASA is one of the most important Agencies in the U.S. It should be regarded way above agencies like the FBI and CIA.

I don't know about that, but I agree that it needs to get more support than it gets. NASA is at the forefront of science in this country. But they need more public support. And we can all help them in that regard.

I'll speak to that (as I did on the other thread). What is likely the cause of "nobody giving a damn" any longer is that the collective "we" is gone from the nation. Americans no longer care about "being #1". I don't think it was that important myself either. However, there is a difference between not caring about the #1 status and forgoing the tenants that got you there. We were "#1" because of a social contract that used to bind our citizenry together.

Now there are large segments of the nation that vomit at the idea of spending any money that doesn't have a direct return on investment or is constitutionally mandated.

National interests are the other guy's worry so you end up with national interests being ignored.

That being said....

Science is a stubborn endeavor that doesn't fit conveniently into Presidential terms or budget cycles. Obviously the smart thing to do would be to remove NASA's manned spaceflight missions from the budgetary process and pay for them at one time or one segment at a time

 

[Kondor3]

For many laymen (myself included), it is disappointing in the extreme to see the US reduced to now fielding Apollo Capsules On Steroids, after decades of the far more spacious and flexible shuttles that once graced low earth orbit, bearing our colors.

I understand that the shuttle was not a deep space exploration vehicle, and that it was not suited for anything beyond our own neighborhood, but I had not expected to see us taking the poor-boy route and clapping together an updated rehash of old ideas from the mid-20th.

Well, at least we're almost to the point where we don't have to go begging hat-in-hand to the Russians for a ride into near-space, but crawling back out of a pre-Mercury-Project state (unable to put a man into space on our own) and serving-up Apollo On Steroids isn't exactly my idea of progress.

I understand that 'they' have sugar-plum visions of using the Orion (Apollo-rehash/update/extension) for a Mars mission, sometime between now and the 10th of never, but we can do (and should be doing) better, in fashioning a vehicle system for our first interplanetary sorties.

Orion? Yeah. It gets us back into space, I guess, but, it's a frigging capsule... old idea... settling for far less than we're capable of... bore, bore, bore.

IMHO.

 

[Mac1958]

None of that is relevant to NASA, and I disagree that we have become a land of pussies. There are no pussies on the space station, and very few in our military. Do try to stay on topic.

I think I am. The majority of America doesn't give a damn. I wish we could come up with a reason for them to start to.

I think the short answer is that our success and dominance made us narcissistic, fat and lazy.

By the end of the 90's, after the collapse of the Soviet Union and the American tech revolution, we were so far ahead of every country in the world in virtually every area that there was simply no one to compete with. And that's the very last thing you want.

So, we turned inward and became more concerned with "feelings" than achievement: Confident Idiots American Students Growing More Confident Less Capable

Our system worked too well.

.

 

[DriftingSand]

I don't spend a lot of time reading about or studying space exploration. Can someone list the truly significant or far-reaching benefits of space exploration? Has the overall cost over the years reaped equivalent (or greater) rewards? If the costs vastly outweigh those rewards is there truly any value in the various, ongoing programs?

 

[Bfgrn]

I don't spend a lot of time reading about or studying space exploration. Can someone list the truly significant or far-reaching benefits of space exploration? Has the overall cost over the years reaped equivalent (or greater) rewards? If the costs vastly outweigh those rewards is there truly any value in the various, ongoing programs?

Spend some time reading...

NASA - Space Program Benefits NASA s Positive Impact on Society

 

[FA_Q2]

I don't spend a lot of time reading about or studying space exploration. Can someone list the truly significant or far-reaching benefits of space exploration? Has the overall cost over the years reaped equivalent (or greater) rewards? If the costs vastly outweigh those rewards is there truly any value in the various, ongoing programs?

Yes. New tech does not simply happen. It is discovered when we face a challenge and meet it.
NASA spin-off technologies - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[DriftingSand]

I don't spend a lot of time reading about or studying space exploration. Can someone list the truly significant or far-reaching benefits of space exploration? Has the overall cost over the years reaped equivalent (or greater) rewards? If the costs vastly outweigh those rewards is there truly any value in the various, ongoing programs?

Spend some time reading...

NASA - Space Program Benefits NASA s Positive Impact on Society

No links please. Spend some time writing. I asked three simple questions. Answer or don't.

 

[DriftingSand]

I don't spend a lot of time reading about or studying space exploration. Can someone list the truly significant or far-reaching benefits of space exploration? Has the overall cost over the years reaped equivalent (or greater) rewards? If the costs vastly outweigh those rewards is there truly any value in the various, ongoing programs?

Yes. New tech does not simply happen. It is discovered when we face a challenge and meet it.
NASA spin-off technologies - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Were these "tech" discoveries a direct result of space travel and exploration or were these advances discovered here on earth?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Americans use to give a damn and want to help others, until to many people became lazy and dependent on the government, and then you have the scam artist we need your money to help those not working.
When you get rid of the dependency on the government you'll start to fix the mess but not until then.

 

[Bfgrn]

I don't spend a lot of time reading about or studying space exploration. Can someone list the truly significant or far-reaching benefits of space exploration? Has the overall cost over the years reaped equivalent (or greater) rewards? If the costs vastly outweigh those rewards is there truly any value in the various, ongoing programs?

Spend some time reading...

NASA - Space Program Benefits NASA s Positive Impact on Society

No links please. Spend some time writing. I asked three simple questions. Answer or don't.

It is not our job to educate you. If YOU CHOOSE to remain ignorant, it is on YOU...

 

[Bfgrn]

Americans use to give a damn and want to help others, until to many people became lazy and dependent on the government, and then you have the scam artist we need your money to help those not working.
When you get rid of the dependency on the government you'll start to fix the mess but not until then.

Parroting right wing propaganda will not fix a problem that doesn't exist. If you want to attack the problem in America, start with the Ayn Rand narcissists.

 

[DriftingSand]

I don't spend a lot of time reading about or studying space exploration. Can someone list the truly significant or far-reaching benefits of space exploration? Has the overall cost over the years reaped equivalent (or greater) rewards? If the costs vastly outweigh those rewards is there truly any value in the various, ongoing programs?

Spend some time reading...

NASA - Space Program Benefits NASA s Positive Impact on Society

No links please. Spend some time writing. I asked three simple questions. Answer or don't.

It is not our job to educate you. If YOU CHOOSE to remain ignorant, it is on YOU...

Okay ... so you can't answer my questions. Just say so next time. Part of my line of questioning had to do with the "benefits" of space exploration but there were other parts to my line of questioning that I realize you're hesitant to answer. Thanks for actually helping me decide on whether space exploration is actually worth the money spent. Got it!!

 

[Bfgrn]

I don't spend a lot of time reading about or studying space exploration. Can someone list the truly significant or far-reaching benefits of space exploration? Has the overall cost over the years reaped equivalent (or greater) rewards? If the costs vastly outweigh those rewards is there truly any value in the various, ongoing programs?

Spend some time reading...

NASA - Space Program Benefits NASA s Positive Impact on Society

No links please. Spend some time writing. I asked three simple questions. Answer or don't.

It is not our job to educate you. If YOU CHOOSE to remain ignorant, it is on YOU...

Okay ... so you can't answer my questions. Just say so next time. Part of my line of questioning had to do with the "benefits" of space exploration but there were other parts to my line of questioning that I realize you're hesitant to answer. Thanks for actually helping me decide on whether space exploration is actually worth the money spent. Got it!!

Justifying your lazy ass ignorance only fortifies that you ARE an ignorant fuck.

 

[DriftingSand]

I don't spend a lot of time reading about or studying space exploration. Can someone list the truly significant or far-reaching benefits of space exploration? Has the overall cost over the years reaped equivalent (or greater) rewards? If the costs vastly outweigh those rewards is there truly any value in the various, ongoing programs?

Spend some time reading...

NASA - Space Program Benefits NASA s Positive Impact on Society

No links please. Spend some time writing. I asked three simple questions. Answer or don't.

It is not our job to educate you. If YOU CHOOSE to remain ignorant, it is on YOU...

Okay ... so you can't answer my questions. Just say so next time. Part of my line of questioning had to do with the "benefits" of space exploration but there were other parts to my line of questioning that I realize you're hesitant to answer. Thanks for actually helping me decide on whether space exploration is actually worth the money spent. Got it!!

Justifying your lazy ass ignorance only fortifies that you ARE an ignorant fuck.

Still nothing (at least nothing intelligent).

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Americans use to give a damn and want to help others, until to many people became lazy and dependent on the government, and then you have the scam artist we need your money to help those not working.
When you get rid of the dependency on the government you'll start to fix the mess but not until then.

Parroting right wing propaganda will not fix a problem that doesn't exist. If you want to attack the problem in America, start with the Ayn Rand narcissists.

It is a fact if you are given something for doing nothing you grow dependent on who is giving you things. You do not care about what you have because someone else will replace it.
What do you hear the most often from a welfare dependent person I need to get a job or I need more benefits?

 

[FA_Q2]

I don't spend a lot of time reading about or studying space exploration. Can someone list the truly significant or far-reaching benefits of space exploration? Has the overall cost over the years reaped equivalent (or greater) rewards? If the costs vastly outweigh those rewards is there truly any value in the various, ongoing programs?

Yes. New tech does not simply happen. It is discovered when we face a challenge and meet it.
NASA spin-off technologies - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Were these "tech" discoveries a direct result of space travel and exploration or were these advances discovered here on earth?

Virtually all of them are going to be creations here on earth in order to overcome the obstacles of entering space.

That is the point - humanity NEEDS obstacles to overcome and innovate from. It is the challenge that drives the innovation. You know there were a LOT of people that said the same thing to Christopher Columbus - why explore when we are doing just fine. I, for one, hope to see humanity go beyond this little rock one day and that certainly is not going to happen over night. It is going to take an awful lot of research and resources but the bounties of space are far more than we have here. There is only so much resource and space here - there is virtually an infinite amount of resources if we just have the tenacity and balls to go get them.

 

[Bfgrn]

Americans use to give a damn and want to help others, until to many people became lazy and dependent on the government, and then you have the scam artist we need your money to help those not working.
When you get rid of the dependency on the government you'll start to fix the mess but not until then.

Parroting right wing propaganda will not fix a problem that doesn't exist. If you want to attack the problem in America, start with the Ayn Rand narcissists.

It is a fact if you are given something for doing nothing you grow dependent on who is giving you things. You do not care about what you have because someone else will replace it.
What do you hear the most often from a welfare dependent person I need to get a job or I need more benefits?

We went over this before. Ignorance is not a belief, it is an excuse.

America's safety net is below almost every other industrialized country in every measure. America more closely resembles the likes of Mexico than a modern First World industrialized nation.

We heard the ignorant rant of Mitt Romney and his 47%...

If there is a citizenry on this planet that does NOT have an entitlement mentality, it is the American people. American workers receive less benefits, paid leave, health care and take less vacation time than any other people. American workers take pride in the quality of their work and their work ethic.

What Romney said is a gross insult and reveals a dangerous mindset. He reeks of contempt for middle class working people and the poor.

Who are the 47%?

Federal budget and Census data show that, in 2010, 91 percent of the benefit dollars from entitlement and other mandatory programs went to the elderly (people 65 and over), the seriously disabled, and members of working households. People who are neither elderly nor disabled — and do not live in a working household — received only 9 percent of the benefits.

Moreover, the vast bulk of that 9 percent goes for medical care, unemployment insurance benefits (which individuals must have a significant work history to receive), Social Security survivor benefits for the children and spouses of deceased workers, and Social Security benefits for retirees between ages 62 and 64. Seven out of the 9 percentage points go for one of these four purposes.

80 percent of the workforce has seen their wages decline in real terms over the last quarter-century, and the average household has seen 40 percent of its wealth disappear during the Great Recession. Through it all, families never asked for a handout from anyone, especially Washington. They were left to go on their own, working harder, squeezing nickels, and taking care of themselves. But their economic boats have been taking on water for years, and now the crisis has swamped millions of middle class families. ref ref

"Labor is the United States. The men and women, who with their minds, their hearts and hands, create the wealth that is shared in this country—they are America."
President Dwight D. Eisenhower