America Was Better Off Before The Socialism of FDR, JFK, LBJ...

[editec]

America Was Better Off Before The Socialism of FDR, JFK, LBJ...

Would that people understood the meaning of words they use...

SOCIALISM
A political doctrine that upholds the principle of collectivity, rather than individualism, as the foundation for economic and social life. Socialists favour state and co-operative ownership of economic resources, equality of economic condition and democratic rule and management of economic and social institutions. See: SOCIAL DEMOCRACY / .

 

[gipper]

My father's father died in 1928, leaving a widow and family of five. No one finished high school, as they went to work. My father left after the sixth grade, and began working in a paper house. There was no Soc Sec survivor benefit. One benefit was he got newspaper to pad his coat and mend his shoes. When he needed his appendix out, there was no health insurance, so the operation occurred on the table the famly ate at. The first dental care and preventive care he got was in the WPA. Unfortunately, he had asthma, which prevented his enlisting in WWII, and then getting the GI bill benefits, that put a generation through college, and is generally considered the single largest govt improvement to gnp in US history.

He was able to retire with soc sec, and savings and owning his home. And medicare. I have doubts about Obamacare, but the hysterical degree of the TPM "debate," caused me to decide let's see what happens, and fix it later.

This is the society that Tea Baggers and Libertarians long for. A society of survival of the fittest where people who fall through the cracks suffer. A society that does not care for its less fortunate

Why have you chosen to believe such foolish left wing propaganda?

Can you name anyone in government or in the TP who is proposing or demanding the elimination of your beloved social welfare programs. Anyone?

Stop believing the lies of the Left and think for yourself...for once.

Rs bad....Ds good....DUH!

 

[regent]

My father's father died in 1928, leaving a widow and family of five. No one finished high school, as they went to work. My father left after the sixth grade, and began working in a paper house. There was no Soc Sec survivor benefit. One benefit was he got newspaper to pad his coat and mend his shoes. When he needed his appendix out, there was no health insurance, so the operation occurred on the table the famly ate at. The first dental care and preventive care he got was in the WPA. Unfortunately, he had asthma, which prevented his enlisting in WWII, and then getting the GI bill benefits, that put a generation through college, and is generally considered the single largest govt improvement to gnp in US history.

He was able to retire with soc sec, and savings and owning his home. And medicare. I have doubts about Obamacare, but the hysterical degree of the TPM "debate," caused me to decide let's see what happens, and fix it later.

This is the society that Tea Baggers and Libertarians long for. A society of survival of the fittest where people who fall through the cracks suffer. A society that does not care for its less fortunate

Why have you chosen to believe such foolish left wing propaganda?

Can you name anyone in government or in the TP who is proposing or demanding the elimination of your beloved social welfare programs. Anyone?

Stop believing the lies of the Left and think for yourself...for once.

Rs bad....Ds good....DUH!

So what is the shutdown all about if not a welfare program?

 

[gipper]

This is the society that Tea Baggers and Libertarians long for. A society of survival of the fittest where people who fall through the cracks suffer. A society that does not care for its less fortunate

Why have you chosen to believe such foolish left wing propaganda?

Can you name anyone in government or in the TP who is proposing or demanding the elimination of your beloved social welfare programs. Anyone?

Stop believing the lies of the Left and think for yourself...for once.

Rs bad....Ds good....DUH!

So what is the shutdown all about if not a welfare program?

Is the federal government nothing more than a big welfare program to you?

Or, is it you see the Affordable Care Act (really Un-affordable Care Act) as nothing more than a welfare program?

 

[LA RAM FAN]

I do say I was wrong about lbj though. thanks for making me second guess

LBJ never really gets credit for the courageous decision to step aside rather than take part in tearing the nation apart further. In hindsight it may have been a bit of 'too little, too late' but he could not possibly have known that at the time.

I would hardly call it a courageous decison to step aside.That evil bastard did it because of the rightful hate americans had for that bastard for getting us into vietnam.there are a lot of uninformed people here at this site that have been taken in by the lies of the lamestream media over the years that Kennedy got us into vietnam and Lbj was continuing his policys which is total B.S.

Jfk signed document # 263 two months before his assassination which called for a complete withdrawal form vietnam. two days after his assassination,Lbj signs documents #273 which reversed his policy and esculated the war with the phony gulf of Tonkin incident.Even Robert Mcnamara and the commander of that ship as well came forward years later after the war ended and confessed they were never attacked.

It was no secret that Kennedy was going to pull them out of vietnam.His two closest aides Kennedy O'donnel and Dave Powers have told researchers over the years Kennedy when talking to them about the vietnam situation said-I intend to pull us out of vietnam by the end of 1965.I cant do it till after I am reelected in the election though.I may go down as the most unpopular president in history but I have no intention of getting us inot that war and suffering anymore losses.

He could not pull out of vietnam till after the election because he had to make it appear to the american people that he had a strong hardliner stance on communism while gradually implementing his plans where two days before his assassination,he gave a directive to pull out the first 1000 men by the end of december.while president,he had to try and gradually pull themout.He could not order a complete withdrawal and expect to get relected again.

He made his decison to pull out completely by 1965 after consulting with Mcarthur who told him vietnam was unwinnable.

It was no secret he was going to pull out because the front page fo the pentagons Stars and Stripes even had the headlines Jfk to pull out of vietnam completely by 1965.I have a copy of that headline of that nespaper in a book of mine on it.

Kennedy while president,never sent in combat troops.Eisenhower sent in the advisors there initailly.The only thing that Kennedy increased over Eisenhower is the advisors.he never sent in combat troops.

Even this propaganda video I have at home that PBS made on vietnam that gets out the propaganda machine saying kennedy got us into vietnam which our corrupt school system tells us also,even in this video they shoot themselves in the foot and are caught lying because even THEY admit it in the video,that combat troops were not introduced into vietnam till 1965 under Johnson and Kennedy only sent in advisors.

The other thing that proves Johnson,not kennedy got us into vietnam besides all that is in a interview with Walter Kronkite in sept 63 whie interviewing Kennedy on the situation in vietnam,you see a graph at the bottom left hand corner that says us casualtys 82.Thats a far cry than the 58,000 plus that occured under Johnson and Nixon.

It wasnt the vietcong or the NVA that murdered those 58,000 americans,it was those bastards Johnson and Nixon.

Didnt mean to get into a discussion on kennedy here but had to clear the air then on your wrongful statement that he made a courgeous decison when he was the one initailly responsibke for tearing the country apart in the first place.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

LBJ never really gets credit for the courageous decision to step aside rather than take part in tearing the nation apart further. In hindsight it may have been a bit of 'too little, too late' but he could not possibly have known that at the time.

Yep, real courageous to step aside when you know you have zero chance of winning the Democrat nomination for President, much less the general election, especially after Bobby Kennedy joined the race.

LBJ and FDR did more DAMAGE to the United States than any other Presidents in the 20th century. Period.

Nobody else comes close.

It is difficult to determine which presidents of the 20th century did the most damage, since most of them did extraordinary damage to the nation. But, I agree that FDR and LBJ have to be considered at the top of the list. I would add Wilson since he gave us the Federal Reserve, which allows the wealthy elite to fleece and enslave us, and the personal income tax...plus involving America in a another dumb war.

The one thing nearly ALL the presidents of the 20th century had in common, is that they were disgusting Statists, with little respect for the Constitution, and most were foolish Progressives.

yeah so very true,its really difficult to determine which one of those elitist presidents did the most damage to america in the 20th century.Nixon,Reagan,Clinton,and yeah like you said.,ilson as well have to be considered to be at the top of that list as well right up there with LBj and FDR as the one the that did the most damage to america in the 20th century sadly.

Why have you chosen to believe such foolish left wing propaganda?

Can you name anyone in government or in the TP who is proposing or demanding the elimination of your beloved social welfare programs. Anyone?

Stop believing the lies of the Left and think for yourself...for once.

Rs bad....Ds good....DUH!



Thats all RW ever does around here.Post propaganda and lies because he is a government disinformation agent troll sent there to do just that,troll and try and derail truth discussions on governemnt corruption.

 

[Michelle420]

America Was Better Off Before The Socialism of FDR, JFK, LBJ... add Truman (equal rights in military), add Nixon (housing issues), add Carter, add Cinton and Obama.

At least this is the con-argument.

What would America have looked like without the socialist programs pushed and enacted by these Presidents?

A patriarchal social system with no room to deviate

 

[bendog]

I think it's fair to say the general tea party movement is not hostile to medicare or soc sec ... as the programs benefit them (-:

However, there's no doubt Reagan was agin it.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bejdhs3jGyw]Ronald Reagan - Medicare Will Bring A Socialist Dictatorship - YouTube[/ame]

Still, he didn't cut it once it was enacted.

Ronald Reagan on Health Care

 

[peach174]

In 2003 Health Care was 0.7 Trillion.

In 2014 Health Care with the new program 1.3 Trillion

Each and every one has added more and more programs. Now it's way out of hand.

2003
Total Government Spending for 2003 - Charts Tables History

2014
Government Spending in United States: Federal State Local for 2014 - Charts Tables History

You can look up the years and where it really started going up.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I do say I was wrong about lbj though. thanks for making me second guess

LBJ never really gets credit for the courageous decision to step aside rather than take part in tearing the nation apart further. In hindsight it may have been a bit of 'too little, too late' but he could not possibly have known that at the time.

Yep, real courageous to step aside when you know you have zero chance of winning the Democrat nomination for President, much less the general election, especially after Bobby Kennedy joined the race.

LBJ and FDR did more DAMAGE to the United States than any other Presidents in the 20th century. Period.

Nobody else comes close.

Nutty logic, but to each his/her own.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

...

If you'll remember, the best economy was 1956 under the pro-union Republicans.

Democrats. 84th United States Congress - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and liberal Republicans

And Senate President was Richard Nixon.

Richard Nixon was more of a pragmatic politician and leader. He often courted and backed liberal Republicans and their policies

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

America Was Better Off Before The Socialism of FDR, JFK, LBJ... add Truman (equal rights in military), add Nixon (housing issues), add Carter, add Cinton and Obama.

At least this is the con-argument.

What would America have looked like withouth the socialist programs pushed and enacted by these Presidents?

We never would have entered WW1

since that changed everything, it's very hard to say


Making people comfortable in poverty is a cruel thing to do. or something like that, by Ben Franklin

but that is what welfare does

People have been comfortable in poverty since the beginning of the creation of cultural societies. All welfare did was replace the cruel overseer/Prince/poor house/et al with a less cold paternalistic state.

Get over it. Your demented myths have no basis in reality

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

My father's father died in 1928, leaving a widow and family of five. No one finished high school, as they went to work. My father left after the sixth grade, and began working in a paper house. There was no Soc Sec survivor benefit. One benefit was he got newspaper to pad his coat and mend his shoes. When he needed his appendix out, there was no health insurance, so the operation occurred on the table the famly ate at. The first dental care and preventive care he got was in the WPA. Unfortunately, he had asthma, which prevented his enlisting in WWII, and then getting the GI bill benefits, that put a generation through college, and is generally considered the single largest govt improvement to gnp in US history.

He was able to retire with soc sec, and savings and owning his home. And medicare. I have doubts about Obamacare, but the hysterical degree of the TPM "debate," caused me to decide let's see what happens, and fix it later.

Yes...the social welfare big government programs have helped many Americans in need.

Problem is those social welfare programs have been expanded and grown (to buy votes and dependence on big government) to such a size today, they are unsustainable. What is unsustainable goes away...in time.

Yet another distorted and disingenuous gipper myth

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

In 2003 Health Care was 0.7 Trillion.

In 2014 Health Care with the new program 1.3 Trillion

Each and every one has added more and more programs. Now it's way out of hand.

2003
Total Government Spending for 2003 - Charts Tables History

2014
Government Spending in United States: Federal State Local for 2014 - Charts Tables History

You can look up the years and where it really started going up.

U
See Dante's signature and substitutue "spending" for "deficit" ...spending as compared to what, gdp...gnp...what?

 

[bendog]

W/O the Bushii taxcuts, the surplus soc sec taxes are used to buy back debt instead of private investors and the chinese, and when the soc sec taxes were no longer a surplus, the publically owned debt could be re-sold to private investors to bridge the gap in funding for soc sec during the boomer retirement. There was nothing "unsustainable" about soc sec, until the "starve the beast" nimrods bought the Grover Norquist bs.

And even now, if we contain medicare, we'll still preserve the progressive programs Americans like by a supermajority. There will, however, be pain that could have been avoided.

And, to make it even better, the bushii taxcuts were a leading cause of the real estate bubble, both from a supply of housing to a demand for investment havens for chinese dollars.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

W/O the Bushii taxcuts, the surplus soc sec taxes are used to buy back debt instead of private investors and the chinese, and when the soc sec taxes were no longer a surplus, the publically owned debt could be re-sold to private investors to bridge the gap in funding for soc sec during the boomer retirement. There was nothing "unsustainable" about soc sec, until the "starve the beast" nimrods bought the Grover Norquist bs.

And even now, if we contain medicare, we'll still preserve the progressive programs Americans like by a supermajority. There will, however, be pain that could have been avoided.

And, to make it even better, the bushii taxcuts were a leading cause of the real estate bubble, both from a supply of housing to a demand for investment havens for chinese dollars.

Pretty good

 

[Interpol]

America Was Better Off Before The Socialism of FDR, JFK, LBJ... add Truman (equal rights in military), add Nixon (housing issues), add Carter, add Cinton and Obama.

At least this is the con-argument.

What would America have looked like withouth the socialist programs pushed and enacted by these Presidents?

We would look like Mexico today if it were not for the great WWII generation deciding to create a strong and stable middle class and to pass a social safety net so that we can better handle economic downturns.

The Great Depression was awful for them and they felt like if the country had had safeguards in place, it could have been made to be less bad, so they passed those safeguards and we've never had a depression since.

In fact, we've never had a downturn anything like that since except for 5 years ago after a decade of trying to get rid of the safeguards that our Great Generation passed.

That is probably the greatest generation in American history along with the one that fought to end slavery.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

[MENTION=36645]Interpol[/MENTION]

Very well said

 

[oldfart]

People have been comfortable in poverty since the beginning of the creation of cultural societies. All welfare did was replace the cruel overseer/Prince/poor house/et al with a less cold paternalistic state.

Get over it. Your demented myths have no basis in reality

I think the propertied classes have never gotten over the medieval discovery that the serfs were having a good time reproducing like rabbits (it was one of the few things that didn't cost money in the way of entertainment in the Dark Ages), while they were stuck with the homely ice queen/bozo prince their parents had married them to when they were seven. Class envy explains a lot before the Romantic Era!

 

[oldfart]

America Was Better Off Before The Socialism of FDR, JFK, LBJ... add Truman (equal rights in military), add Nixon (housing issues), add Carter, add Cinton and Obama.

At least this is the con-argument.

What would America have looked like withouth the socialist programs pushed and enacted by these Presidents?

We would look like Mexico today if it were not for the great WWII generation deciding to create a strong and stable middle class and to pass a social safety net so that we can better handle economic downturns.

The Great Depression was awful for them and they felt like if the country had had safeguards in place, it could have been made to be less bad, so they passed those safeguards and we've never had a depression since.

In fact, we've never had a downturn anything like that since except for 5 years ago after a decade of trying to get rid of the safeguards that our Great Generation passed.

That is probably the greatest generation in American history along with the one that fought to end slavery.

First, thanks for the rare historical perspective that those who fought to save the Union and a year later to purge the country of the great evil of a slave society were by any reasonable definition a Great Generation. We can also have sorrow for the misguided zealots who fostered both disunion and slavery, but not admiration.

Second, what is often lost is how varied both the support and the opposition to the social compact of the 40s and 50s was. On one side was both Truman and Eisenhower, integrating the military, passing civil rights bills, promoting public works and higher education, rebuilding the rest of the world which in the process gave America its greatest period of economic advance since early industrialization. One the other side were the remnants of the isolationist Right, the racist Democratic South, and an assortment of ideologues of every political persuasion from Marxists to John Birchers.

For better or worse (and most of it is better) this is the world our grandparents made. That we do not understand their achievement or take it for granted says much more about us than it does about them!