America Was Built on Natural Law

[rightwinger]

What does any of that have to do with the slavery provision in the Constitution?

• which in Section IV, article 2 protects the rights of slave owners to have their slaves returned

No person held to service or labor in one state, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due.

It was the answer to your question of why slavery did not end. S

I didn't ask why slavery didn't end.

This is what i asked: If the laws of the United States are based upon Natural Law- why did the Constitution have a provision in it requiring States to return escaped slaves?

I asked why the Founding fathers legitimized slavery in the Constitution if they
a) believed in Natural laws and
b) that Natural law said slavery was illegal and
c) that the Constitution is based upon Natural law.

You asked why slavery didn't end. The reason is the Democratic Party took power and expanded it. You have no shame.

Total bullshit
Slavery was a particular southern institution having nothing to do with the Democratic Party
It was driven by an expansion of King Cotton that demanded cheap labor to process it

Tell that to Frederick Douglas.

Slavery was a function of economics and extreme southern racism

 

[rightwinger]

Dingle will simply spam you, Syriusly, because he can't respond beyond his basic OP argument without getting his rebuttals rejected.

Like I said before, I'm pretty happy how this little debate has played out. I'm more than happy to let others judge for themselves. Just remember that at any point in your life you are the sum of your choices. Successful behaviors will naturally lead to success and failed behaviors will naturally lead to failure. I am more than happy to give you the opportunity to ingrain your failed behaviors because I know what your outcome will be.

.

Slavery in medieval Europe - Wikipedia

Church rules suppressed slavery of Christians.

funny how you claim natural law and ignore your churches role in not preventing slavery world wide except by not allowing enslavement of the enslavers ... winner.

the churches lack of support for women as well misogynist.

I don't agree with either one of these. A woman is the mother of my Church and while the Church's history on slavery has been mixed it can be said with confidence that the Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources.

The Baptist Church enforced slavery in the South telling slaves the bible says you must serve your master

Is that so?

If the Bible says it is so

 

[ding]

It was the answer to your question of why slavery did not end. S

I didn't ask why slavery didn't end.

This is what i asked: If the laws of the United States are based upon Natural Law- why did the Constitution have a provision in it requiring States to return escaped slaves?

I asked why the Founding fathers legitimized slavery in the Constitution if they
a) believed in Natural laws and
b) that Natural law said slavery was illegal and
c) that the Constitution is based upon Natural law.

You asked why slavery didn't end. The reason is the Democratic Party took power and expanded it. You have no shame.

Total bullshit
Slavery was a particular southern institution having nothing to do with the Democratic Party
It was driven by an expansion of King Cotton that demanded cheap labor to process it

Tell that to Frederick Douglas.

Slavery was a function of economics and extreme southern racism

That is a Marxist belief.

The roots of racism

 

[ding]

Like I said before, I'm pretty happy how this little debate has played out. I'm more than happy to let others judge for themselves. Just remember that at any point in your life you are the sum of your choices. Successful behaviors will naturally lead to success and failed behaviors will naturally lead to failure. I am more than happy to give you the opportunity to ingrain your failed behaviors because I know what your outcome will be.

.

Slavery in medieval Europe - Wikipedia

Church rules suppressed slavery of Christians.

funny how you claim natural law and ignore your churches role in not preventing slavery world wide except by not allowing enslavement of the enslavers ... winner.

the churches lack of support for women as well misogynist.

I don't agree with either one of these. A woman is the mother of my Church and while the Church's history on slavery has been mixed it can be said with confidence that the Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources.

The Baptist Church enforced slavery in the South telling slaves the bible says you must serve your master

Is that so?

If the Bible says it is so

I see. No slavery before the Bible?

 

[JakeStarkey]

I didn't ask why slavery didn't end.

This is what i asked: If the laws of the United States are based upon Natural Law- why did the Constitution have a provision in it requiring States to return escaped slaves?

I asked why the Founding fathers legitimized slavery in the Constitution if they
a) believed in Natural laws and
b) that Natural law said slavery was illegal and
c) that the Constitution is based upon Natural law.

You asked why slavery didn't end. The reason is the Democratic Party took power and expanded it. You have no shame.

Total bullshit
Slavery was a particular southern institution having nothing to do with the Democratic Party
It was driven by an expansion of King Cotton that demanded cheap labor to process it

Tell that to Frederick Douglas.

Slavery was a function of economics and extreme southern racism

That is a Marxist belief. The roots of racism

It is also a capitalist belief, dingle. Markets in search of cheap products and cheap labor. Southern conservative Democrats and Whigs were racist, 90% of the Southern economy depended on cotton directly or indirectly, and black chattel slavery was the economic engine that drove it. Southern Baptists and Methodists split from the national organizations over the issue and gave slavery religious cover.

You have no idea exactly what is Marxist theory or economic functions. You use terms you clearly don't understand. And when you get called out where you are clearly wrong you attack personality. What is wrong with you?

 

[JakeStarkey]

.
funny how you claim natural law and ignore your churches role in not preventing slavery world wide except by not allowing enslavement of the enslavers ... winner.

the churches lack of support for women as well misogynist.

I don't agree with either one of these. A woman is the mother of my Church and while the Church's history on slavery has been mixed it can be said with confidence that the Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources.

The Baptist Church enforced slavery in the South telling slaves the bible says you must serve your master

Is that so?

If the Bible says it is so

I see. No slavery before the Bible?

Immaterial.

 

[JakeStarkey]

No, you are spamming. You have made assertions without evidence. When shown that Stephens and Jefferson did not support claim, you keep posting the same stuff.

lol, I think you got that backwards. I'm pretty happy how this has played out. Tell me... which of these is not a fact?

The Founders wrote into the constitution the earliest date that the slave trade could be abolished, they abolished the slave trade at the earliest date, .

Well of course those are not the facts

The Founders wrote the Constitution that guaranteed the right of slave importation for 20 years.
The next generation abolished the importation of slaves, once the guaranteed right of slave importation expired.

Remember- the Founders wrote the Constitution with a guarantee of the right to import slaves- for at least 20 years- and left it up to the next generation to decide whether to ban slave imports- or not.

The Slave trade of course continued legally within the United States.

Again, your dishonesty of not taking all of the facts into consideration leads you to idiotic conclusions. The Founders wrote into the constitution the earliest date that the slave trade could be abolished, they abolished the slave trade at the earliest date,.

Wow- now you are just flat out lying.

The Founders wrote the Constitution that guaranteed the right of slave importation for 20 years.
The next generation abolished the importation of slaves, once the guaranteed right of slave importation expired.

Remember- the Founders wrote the Constitution with a guarantee of the right to import slaves- for at least 20 years- and left it up to the next generation to decide whether to ban slave imports- or not.

The Slave trade of course continued legally within the United States

No. I'm not. You are accusing me of what you are doing.

Fugitive slave law in the Constitution? 3/5ths a person in the Constitution? Fought to keep the institution, got the Dred Scott decisions, seceded because of Lincoln, and Alexanders Stephens, the VP of the Confederacy and a friend of Lincoln, gives the great corner stone speech, saying, in effect, this war is caused by slavery and we ain't giving it up. Your "divine law" theory, as you outlined it, comes down on the side of slavery, which is a moral abomination.

Dingle, you are confused.

 

[ding]

You asked why slavery didn't end. The reason is the Democratic Party took power and expanded it. You have no shame.

Total bullshit
Slavery was a particular southern institution having nothing to do with the Democratic Party
It was driven by an expansion of King Cotton that demanded cheap labor to process it

Tell that to Frederick Douglas.

Slavery was a function of economics and extreme southern racism

That is a Marxist belief. The roots of racism

It is also a capitalist belief, dingle. Markets in search of cheap products and cheap labor. Southern conservative Democrats and Whigs were racist, 90% of the Southern economy depended on cotton directly or indirectly, and black chattel slavery was the economic engine that drove it. Southern Baptists and Methodists split from the national organizations over the issue and gave slavery religious cover.

You have no idea exactly what is Marxist theory or economic functions. You use terms you clearly don't understand. And when you get called out where you are clearly wrong you attack personality. What is wrong with you?

lol, no. I am right. You are a subversive POS. There is nothing good about you at all. You lie and deceive at every turn. Your religion is socialism which worships big government and social policy. It is based on atheism and deification of man. It proceeds in almost all its manifestations from the assumption that the basic principles guiding the life of an individual and of mankind in general do not go beyond the satisfaction of material needs or primitive instincts. You have no distinction between good and evil, no morality or any other kind of value, save pleasure. Your doctrine is abolition of private property, abolition of family, abolition of religion and communality or equality. The religious nature of socialism explains your extraordinary attraction to socialist doctrines and its capacity to inflame you. You condemn respect for any who believe in Christianity. You practice moral relativity, indiscriminate indiscriminateness, multiculturalism, cultural marxism and normalization of deviance. Your hostility towards traditional religions is that of an animosity between a rival religion. You have an external locus of control that you wear like an invisible cross. You worship science but are the first to reject it. You are a militant atheist and you have no redeeming value as a human being whatsoever.

 

[ding]

lol, I think you got that backwards. I'm pretty happy how this has played out. Tell me... which of these is not a fact?

The Founders wrote into the constitution the earliest date that the slave trade could be abolished, they abolished the slave trade at the earliest date, .

Well of course those are not the facts

The Founders wrote the Constitution that guaranteed the right of slave importation for 20 years.
The next generation abolished the importation of slaves, once the guaranteed right of slave importation expired.

Remember- the Founders wrote the Constitution with a guarantee of the right to import slaves- for at least 20 years- and left it up to the next generation to decide whether to ban slave imports- or not.

The Slave trade of course continued legally within the United States.

Again, your dishonesty of not taking all of the facts into consideration leads you to idiotic conclusions. The Founders wrote into the constitution the earliest date that the slave trade could be abolished, they abolished the slave trade at the earliest date,.

Wow- now you are just flat out lying.

The Founders wrote the Constitution that guaranteed the right of slave importation for 20 years.
The next generation abolished the importation of slaves, once the guaranteed right of slave importation expired.

Remember- the Founders wrote the Constitution with a guarantee of the right to import slaves- for at least 20 years- and left it up to the next generation to decide whether to ban slave imports- or not.

The Slave trade of course continued legally within the United States

No. I'm not. You are accusing me of what you are doing.

Fugitive slave law in the Constitution? 3/5ths a person in the Constitution? Fought to keep the institution, got the Dred Scott decisions, seceded because of Lincoln, and Alexanders Stephens, the VP of the Confederacy and a friend of Lincoln, gives the great corner stone speech, saying, in effect, this war is caused by slavery and we ain't giving it up. Your "divine law" theory, as you outlined it, comes down on the side of slavery, which is a moral abomination.

Dingle, you are confused.

No. You are a deceiver. There is no honesty in you whatsoever. The Founders believed that slavery was against the law of nature, knew not how to end it at the time of founding nut did intend for it to perish. The founders wrote into the constitution the earliest date that the slave trade could be abolished, they abolished the slave trade at the earliest date possible, right after the ratification of the constitution they passed the NW Ordinance which forbade slavery in any federal territories then held; and for this reason, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Michigan, and Wisconsin all eventually came into the nation as free States and we have two witnesses who corroborate these actions and their intentions One of which disagreed with the founders and the other one who pointed to physical historical records. Frederick Douglas also believed that the founding fathers wrote the constitution as an anti-slavery document. Your only intent is to disparage our great nation and its founders because you hate America and what it stands for.

 

[ding]

I don't agree with either one of these. A woman is the mother of my Church and while the Church's history on slavery has been mixed it can be said with confidence that the Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources.

The Baptist Church enforced slavery in the South telling slaves the bible says you must serve your master

Is that so?

If the Bible says it is so

I see. No slavery before the Bible?

Immaterial.

Of course it is material. Slavery has been around since the beginning of man. The Greeks justified it on the grounds that they were morally superior. The Romans believed that it was against the law of nature, but justified it on the grounds of state superiority. America's founding fathers believed it was against the law of nature, knew not how to end it at the time of founding, intended for it to perish and put in place plans to bring about the demise of slavery. You hate this country and everything it stands for, wish to bring about the demise of our great nation and are attempting to revise history like every good communist dupe has done before you. Jake, face it you are a POS.

 

[Mudda]

America was built on the Constitution, not natural law.

 

[rightwinger]

I didn't ask why slavery didn't end.

This is what i asked: If the laws of the United States are based upon Natural Law- why did the Constitution have a provision in it requiring States to return escaped slaves?

I asked why the Founding fathers legitimized slavery in the Constitution if they
a) believed in Natural laws and
b) that Natural law said slavery was illegal and
c) that the Constitution is based upon Natural law.

You asked why slavery didn't end. The reason is the Democratic Party took power and expanded it. You have no shame.

Total bullshit
Slavery was a particular southern institution having nothing to do with the Democratic Party
It was driven by an expansion of King Cotton that demanded cheap labor to process it

Tell that to Frederick Douglas.

Slavery was a function of economics and extreme southern racism

That is a Marxist belief.

The roots of racism

Its a reality

At the time of our founding, slavery was on its way out. Economically, it was not that important

That was until the invention of the Cotton Gin in 1794. The Cotton Gin made it easy to pick the seeds and thorns out of cotton and cotton became the fiber of choice. But you needed someone to pick your cotton and slaves became a necessity to the cotton industry. Cotton was one of the most valuable commodities in the world and slave labor was its source

 

[rightwinger]

.
funny how you claim natural law and ignore your churches role in not preventing slavery world wide except by not allowing enslavement of the enslavers ... winner.

the churches lack of support for women as well misogynist.

I don't agree with either one of these. A woman is the mother of my Church and while the Church's history on slavery has been mixed it can be said with confidence that the Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources.

The Baptist Church enforced slavery in the South telling slaves the bible says you must serve your master

Is that so?

If the Bible says it is so

I see. No slavery before the Bible?

The Bible was subverted by southern racists and was selectively read to slaves to tell them that slavery was their lot in life and that the Bible says they must be loyal to their masters. One of the reasons they made it illegal to teach slaves to read

As to the "Good Book"....it is proof that a loving God does not exist
Moses led the Hebrews out of slavery and they endured endless suffering. But when Moses went up that mountain to receive the ten commandments, God could not find room to say....Slavery is a sin

 

[JakeStarkey]

The Baptist Church enforced slavery in the South telling slaves the bible says you must serve your master

Is that so?

If the Bible says it is so

I see. No slavery before the Bible?

Immaterial.

Of course it is material. Slavery has been around since the beginning of man. The Greeks justified it on the grounds that they were morally superior. The Romans believed that it was against the law of nature, but justified it on the grounds of state superiority. America's founding fathers believed it was against the law of nature, knew not how to end it at the time of founding, intended for it to perish and put in place plans to bring about the demise of slavery. You hate this country and everything it stands for, wish to bring about the demise of our great nation and are attempting to revise history like every good communist dupe has done before you. Jake, face it you are a POS.

Back to personal insults, silly analysis, and the misreading of historical material by Ding. The Founders had no plan to extinguish slavery.

Perhaps your stupidest argument is that Alexander Stephens, the VP of the Confederacy and creator of the CornerStone Speech, was an example of Natural Law.

 

[ding]

You asked why slavery didn't end. The reason is the Democratic Party took power and expanded it. You have no shame.

Total bullshit
Slavery was a particular southern institution having nothing to do with the Democratic Party
It was driven by an expansion of King Cotton that demanded cheap labor to process it

Tell that to Frederick Douglas.

Slavery was a function of economics and extreme southern racism

That is a Marxist belief. The roots of racism

It is also a capitalist belief, dingle. Markets in search of cheap products and cheap labor. Southern conservative Democrats and Whigs were racist, 90% of the Southern economy depended on cotton directly or indirectly, and black chattel slavery was the economic engine that drove it. Southern Baptists and Methodists split from the national organizations over the issue and gave slavery religious cover.

You have no idea exactly what is Marxist theory or economic functions. You use terms you clearly don't understand. And when you get called out where you are clearly wrong you attack personality. What is wrong with you?

Let me clarify.... that is a marxist argument.

 

[ding]

I don't agree with either one of these. A woman is the mother of my Church and while the Church's history on slavery has been mixed it can be said with confidence that the Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources.

The Baptist Church enforced slavery in the South telling slaves the bible says you must serve your master

Is that so?

If the Bible says it is so

I see. No slavery before the Bible?

The Bible was subverted by southern racists and was selectively read to slaves to tell them that slavery was their lot in life and that the Bible says they must be loyal to their masters. One of the reasons they made it illegal to teach slaves to read

As to the "Good Book"....it is proof that a loving God does not exist
Moses led the Hebrews out of slavery and they endured endless suffering. But when Moses went up that mountain to receive the ten commandments, God could not find room to say....Slavery is a sin

I wouldn't expect you to understand anything about the Bible. Our God is a tough love kind of God.

 

[ding]

Is that so?

If the Bible says it is so

I see. No slavery before the Bible?

Immaterial.

Of course it is material. Slavery has been around since the beginning of man. The Greeks justified it on the grounds that they were morally superior. The Romans believed that it was against the law of nature, but justified it on the grounds of state superiority. America's founding fathers believed it was against the law of nature, knew not how to end it at the time of founding, intended for it to perish and put in place plans to bring about the demise of slavery. You hate this country and everything it stands for, wish to bring about the demise of our great nation and are attempting to revise history like every good communist dupe has done before you. Jake, face it you are a POS.

Back to personal insults, silly analysis, and the misreading of historical material by Ding. The Founders had no plan to extinguish slavery.

Perhaps your stupidest argument is that Alexander Stephens, the VP of the Confederacy and creator of the CornerStone Speech, was an example of Natural Law.

You mean that wasn't what you were after? I thought that's what you were shooting for when you kept misstating my position over and over again. My bad.

 

[ding]

You asked why slavery didn't end. The reason is the Democratic Party took power and expanded it. You have no shame.

Total bullshit
Slavery was a particular southern institution having nothing to do with the Democratic Party
It was driven by an expansion of King Cotton that demanded cheap labor to process it

Tell that to Frederick Douglas.

Slavery was a function of economics and extreme southern racism

That is a Marxist belief.

The roots of racism

Its a reality

At the time of our founding, slavery was on its way out. Economically, it was not that important

That was until the invention of the Cotton Gin in 1794. The Cotton Gin made it easy to pick the seeds and thorns out of cotton and cotton became the fiber of choice. But you needed someone to pick your cotton and slaves became a necessity to the cotton industry. Cotton was one of the most valuable commodities in the world and slave labor was its source

This is quite frankly the stupidest thing you have written. Seriously. Yes, slavery would have eventually perished on its own. But your party of evil extended it by 50 years, fought against ending it until the bitter end and then made their lives miserable for the next 100 years. You guys really are pieces of shit.

 

[ding]

You asked why slavery didn't end. The reason is the Democratic Party took power and expanded it. You have no shame.

Total bullshit
Slavery was a particular southern institution having nothing to do with the Democratic Party
It was driven by an expansion of King Cotton that demanded cheap labor to process it

Tell that to Frederick Douglas.

Slavery was a function of economics and extreme southern racism

That is a Marxist belief. The roots of racism

It is also a capitalist belief, dingle. Markets in search of cheap products and cheap labor. Southern conservative Democrats and Whigs were racist, 90% of the Southern economy depended on cotton directly or indirectly, and black chattel slavery was the economic engine that drove it. Southern Baptists and Methodists split from the national organizations over the issue and gave slavery religious cover.

You have no idea exactly what is Marxist theory or economic functions. You use terms you clearly don't understand. And when you get called out where you are clearly wrong you attack personality. What is wrong with you?

Hey, Jake, you sell any body parts from babies lately? That would be an example of something that was against the natural law.

The Senate Report on Planned Parenthood No One Is Talking About

 

[the_human_being]

America Was Built on Natural Law
As our forefathers sought to build “one nation under God,” they purposely established their legal codes on the foundation of Natural Law. They believed that societies should be governed, as Jefferson put it, by “the moral law to which man has been subjected by his Creator, and of which his feelings, or conscience as it is sometimes called, are the evidence with which his Creator has furnished him. The moral duties which exist between individual and individual in a state of nature accompany them into a state of society,… their Maker not having released them from those duties on their forming themselves into a nation.” (Writings of Thomas Jefferson, 3:228)

Throughout the first century of US. history, natural law was upheld as a key principle of government by the American people and their leader, not only by Presidents and the Congress, but also by the Supreme Court.

In the view of the Court, its members were to decide cases by exercising “that understanding which Providence has bestowed upon them.” (Gibbons v. Ogden, 22 U.S. 1, 186-87, 1824). Since the laws they adjudicated were based on “the preexisting and higher authority of the laws of nature,” (The West River Bridge Company v. Joseph Dix, 47 U.S. 507, 532, 1848), they relied less on judicial precedent than on “eternal justice as it comes from intelligence… to guide the conscience of the Court.” (Rhode Island v. Massachusetts, 39 U.S. 210, 225, 1840).

Cicero defines Natural Law as “true law.” “True law is right reason in agreement with nature; it is of universal application, unchanging and everlasting; it summons to duty by its commands, and averts from wrongdoing by its prohibitions…. It is a sin to try to alter this law, nor is it allowable to repeal any part of it, and it is impossible to abolish entirely. We cannot be freed from its obligations by senate or people, and we need not look outside ourselves for an expounder or interpreter of it. And there will not be different laws at Rome and Athens, or different laws now and in the future, but one eternal and unchangeable law will be valid for all nations and all times, and there will be one master and ruler, that is God, over us all, for he is the author of this law, its promulgator, and its enforcing judge. Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature, and by reason of this very fact he will suffer the worst punishment.” (The Five thousand Year Leap, p. 40)

In 1764, Massachusetts patriot James Otis defined Natural Law as “the rules of moral conduct implanted by nature in the human mind, forming the proper basis for and being superior to all written laws; the will of God revealed to man through his conscience.” (Annals of America, 2:11)

Natural Law: The Basis of Moral Government - National Center for Constitutional Studies

“The law of nature is that which God at the time of creation of the nature of man infused into his heart, for his preservation and direction…the moral law, called also the law of nature.” (Sir Edward Coke, Calvin’s Case in The Selected Writings and Speeches of Sir Edward Coke)

“…as man depends absolutely upon his Maker for everything, it is necessary that he should, in all points, conform to his Maker's will. This will of his Maker is called the law of nature...This law of nature...dictated by God himself, is of course superior in obligation to any other. It is binding over all the globe, in all countries, and at all times: no human laws are of any validity if contrary to this; and such of them as are valid derive all their force, and all their authority...from this original. "Upon these two foundations, the law of nature and the law of revelation, depend all human laws; that is to say, no human laws should be suffered to contradict these." (William Blackstone, Commentaries on the Law 1723-1780)

“Human law must rest its authority ultimately upon the authority of that law which is Divine…Far from being rivals or enemies, religion and law are twin sisters, friends, and mutual assistants.” (James Wilson “Of the General Principles of Law and Obligation”, U.S. Supreme Court Justice Signed U.S. Constitution)

America was built on Indian land.