American Terrorism

[Annie]

Just because the Palis have been unsuccessful thus far in killing and maiming, doesn't mean that Israel needs to turn off their scopes in reacting. Just saying.

 

[trobinett]

Simply an amazing thread.

I have never seen so many people, so set on removing a countries ability to defend itself.


The history, the difference in religion, the difference in political affiliation, has absolutely nothing to do with it. Though I certainly understand there are those that wish to make it so.

It's basic to humanity to defend itself, and therefore, follow along closely kids, it's basic for a nation to defend itself.

Seems simple enough to me.

 

[Annie]

Simply an amazing thread.

I have never seen so many people, so set on removing a countries ability to defend itself.


The history, the difference in religion, the difference in political affiliation, has absolutely nothing to do with it. Though I certainly understand there are those that wish to make it so.

It's basic to humanity to defend itself, and therefore, follow along closely kids, it's basic for a nation to defend itself.

Seems simple enough to me.

They reflect the UN perfectly. US and Israel have thresholds that are beyond others when it comes to provocation or reaction. When those thresholds are reached, the bar is raised. There really are no limits.

 

[eots]

i think Israel has the ability to defend its self...unlike palastine....or Iran

 

[eots]

Nuclear Issues - CDIThe secrecy with which Israel shrouds its nuclear arsenal renders estimates of its size highly unreliable. Generally, however, it is estimated that Israel ...
www.cdi.org/issues/nukef&f/database/nukearsenals.cfm - 66k


http://www.cdi.org/issues/nukef&f/database/nukearsenals.cfm

 

[tigerbob]

Kind'a. He was an Italian who laid down some basic political theories on how a Prince should govern his region. One of the questions he asks is should a Prince be loved for feared. Love, he says, is fickle. The people may love you today and hate you tomorrow. It is better if a Prince is feared...because if he is feared, then he is respected. People are less likely to try and kill the Prince if they fear him. It is not a big book--about hundred pages.

As an American, I don't give a shit if the rest of the world loves me or not, but I do want them to think twice about attacking us. I want them to fear us like the non-Romans feared Rome. In Ancient Rome, if a Roman was passing through a village and he was attacked and killed, the Legions would come and lay waste to the land and kill everyone in the village. Brutal--you bet. Effective--oh, yea--but part of the reason why you had the Pax Romana.

That's quite interesting. I get the sense that you largely buy what Machiavelli was saying (though I may be wrong) - that you can get respect through making people fear you.

You go on to say you don't care whether the rest of the world loves America. But you do want the rest of the world to fear America, so I'm guessing that you want the world to respect America, in which case you do care what the rest of the world thinks.

I'm not so sure that respect is a natural result of fear. That's the doctrine that the bully in the schoolyard lives by, or the 14 year old wannabe gang-banger. Resentment and loathing are usually the result of fear. That was certainly the result of the means used to enforce the Pax Romana - maintaining the appearance of peace by keeping your foot on the throat of those who would oppose you.

 

[Dr Grump]

Kind'a. He was an Italian who laid down some basic political theories on how a Prince should govern his region. One of the questions he asks is should a Prince be loved for feared. Love, he says, is fickle. The people may love you today and hate you tomorrow. It is better if a Prince is feared...because if he is feared, then he is respected. People are less likely to try and kill the Prince if they fear him. It is not a big book--about hundred pages.

As an American, I don't give a shit if the rest of the world loves me or not, but I do want them to think twice about attacking us. I want them to fear us like the non-Romans feared Rome. In Ancient Rome, if a Roman was passing through a village and he was attacked and killed, the Legions would come and lay waste to the land and kill everyone in the village. Brutal--you bet. Effective--oh, yea--but part of the reason why you had the Pax Romana.

But what if you are neither respected or feared like the hijackers of 9-11? And what happened to the Roman Empire in the end?

As for those thinking twice about attacking you, do you think any terrorist who truly wants to do you harm is scared of you? From the outside looking in, it seems you have attacked people that mean you no harm, and a lot of neocons are quite happy to buy into that. Sad really...

 

[MasterChief]

But what if you are neither respected or feared like the hijackers of 9-11?

As the Al-Qaeda hold outs in Afghantisan found out--a laser guider 500 pound JDAM has a unique way of changing minds.

As far as how the Roman Empire ended, I'd remind you to look instead at how the Japanese Empire came to an end. They had nothing but contempt for the United States, but we kill'em by the hundreds of thousands; we sank their aircraft carries; we buried them alive; we burned their cities; we roasted them in atomic fire. I think if it had not been for the America's First Marine Division, many here would be speaking Japanese right now.

 

[eots]

As the Al-Qaeda hold outs in Afghantisan found out--a laser guider 500 pound JDAM has a unique way of changing minds.

As far as how the Roman Empire ended, I'd remind you to look instead at how the Japanese Empire came to an end. They had nothing but contempt for the United States, but we kill'em by the hundreds of thousands; we sank their aircraft carries; we buried them alive; we burned their cities; we roasted them in atomic fire. I think if it had not been for the America's First Marine Division, many here would be speaking Japanese right now.

you under estimate your enemy

 

[Gunny]

I know you realize that they think it's Israel's *presence* that's the aggressive act.

Oh I realize it. I think it's a stupid argument. Israel has managed to come to terms with Egypt and Jordan and from the day those peace agreements were signed to this, Israel has used no military force against either. An OBVIOUS precedent commpletely ignored by the anti-Israel/pro-Palestine crowd.

If Palestinians would spend as much time building a nation and an infrastructure as they do being dimwitted, murderous terrorists, Palestine would probably be the jewel of the Middle East.

 

[MasterChief]

you under estimate your enemy

No...no, I don't.

 

[eots]

You can kill a man but you can't kill an idea

 

[Dr Grump]

As the Al-Qaeda hold outs in Afghantisan found out--a laser guider 500 pound JDAM has a unique way of changing minds.

As far as how the Roman Empire ended, I'd remind you to look instead at how the Japanese Empire came to an end. They had nothing but contempt for the United States, but we kill'em by the hundreds of thousands; we sank their aircraft carries; we buried them alive; we burned their cities; we roasted them in atomic fire. I think if it had not been for the America's First Marine Division, many here would be speaking Japanese right now.

AQ and the other like-minded groups are like a Hydra - cut of its head and two more appear..

Doesn't matter how either Empire ended. They both ended...with a lot of unnecessary bloodshed in between.

And bollocks re the marines. They did more than their fair share, but so did others.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

AQ and the other like-minded groups are like a Hydra - cut of its head and two more appear..

Doesn't matter how either Empire ended. They both ended...with a lot of unnecessary bloodshed in between.

And bollocks re the marines. They did more than their fair share, but so did others.

Yes, lets just let them kill us and do nothing, retreat behind our borders and allow them to do what ever they demand, NOW THAT will fix everything.

 

[MasterChief]

AQ and the other like-minded groups are like a Hydra - cut of its head and two more appear...

That's when you use a automatic shotgun. If you'll recall UBL--shakin' in his turban--said if we chased him into Afghanistan, he'd kill us in droves. Gary Berntsen brought in a team of special operatives and they killed Al-Qaeda and their supporters much faster than anyone anticipated. So believe that Islamic extermist propaganda but the facts on the ground speak for themselves. The Taliban were crushed, Al-Qaeda ran and when they did fight--they died, and moderate Muslims are sick of AQ killing them by the hundreds, killing children, and digging up dead opponents and cutting off their heads and putting it on their car hoods.

Even the earth will end some day...so what. I'm supposed to live a defeatist life because of it. I don't think so. There will always be wars and rumors of wars--just think about this, if the United States goes down, what will replace it. If the Islamic extremists have their way, it will be a world wide Caliphate. Are you cool with that?

 

[Dr Grump]

Yes, lets just let them kill us and do nothing, retreat behind our borders and allow them to do what ever they demand, NOW THAT will fix everything.

I'm not saying that. By all means go after them, just make sure you get the right people...and go after the right people. That would be a nice start..

 

[Dr Grump]

That's when you use a automatic shotgun. If you'll recall UBL--shakin' in his turban--said if we chased him into Afghanistan, he'd kill us in droves. Gary Berntsen brought in a team of special operatives and they killed Al-Qaeda and their supporters much faster than anyone anticipated. So believe that Islamic extermist propaganda but the facts on the ground speak for themselves. The Taliban were crushed, Al-Qaeda ran and when they did fight--they died, and moderate Muslims are sick of AQ killing them by the hundreds, killing children, and digging up dead opponents and cutting off their heads and putting it on their car hoods.

Even the earth will end some day...so what. I'm supposed to live a defeatist life because of it. I don't think so. There will always be wars and rumors of wars--just think about this, if the United States goes down, what will replace it. If the Islamic extremists have their way, it will be a world wide Caliphate. Are you cool with that?

I don't believe anybody's propaganda. And no, nobody was shaking in their boots.

If the Taliban are crushed, how come there is a resurgence of them in Pakistan? I had to break it to you MC, but AQ were never an international, well-constructed terrorist group like the IRA. They are a mish mash of fanatics and Muslim fundies who belong to a whole slew of different groups that are hardly organised in the traditional sense.

BS re the Islamic terrorists. They are a fringe group in fringe countries. Tell me one non-Muslim country where they have a stranglehold. Other than Iran, and Afghanistan under the Taliban, name a Muslim country where they rule? The Sky is Falling MC, The Sky is Falling!

The US is already being replaced, you just don't realise it yet - by China and India...

 

[jillian]

Kind'a. He was an Italian who laid down some basic political theories on how a Prince should govern his region. One of the questions he asks is should a Prince be loved for feared. Love, he says, is fickle. The people may love you today and hate you tomorrow. It is better if a Prince is feared...because if he is feared, then he is respected. People are less likely to try and kill the Prince if they fear him. It is not a big book--about hundred pages.

Hmmmmmmmmm... funny how people respond to things. I always looked to Machiavelli as a way NOT to do things... as brutal leadership and a willingness to do whatever you felt you needed to in order to secure power, no matter what the repercussions. No where in my studies did I ever think those were positive things. In fact, if I say someone is machiavellian, I certainly am not using it as a complement.

 

[Annie]

Hmmmmmmmmm... funny how people respond to things. I always looked to Machiavelli as a way NOT to do things... as brutal leadership and a willingness to do whatever you felt you needed to in order to secure power, no matter what the repercussions. No where in my studies did I ever think those were positive things. In fact, if I say someone is machiavellian, I certainly am not using it as a complement.

I don't want a Machiavellian leader, but I do want a more Machiavellian state. The Prince, was written for the age of monarchy, thus the Prince and the state were one. Not so much the intrigue, but the strength. Lord knows our branches and agencies don't need more walls. BTW, I think that FDR's way of managing the players of his administration was the most Machiavellian of all.

 

[trobinett]

Oh I realize it. I think it's a stupid argument. Israel has managed to come to terms with Egypt and Jordan and from the day those peace agreements were signed to this, Israel has used no military force against either. An OBVIOUS precedent commpletely ignored by the anti-Israel/pro-Palestine crowd.

If Palestinians would spend as much time building a nation and an infrastructure as they do being dimwitted, murderous terrorists, Palestine would probably be the jewel of the Middle East.

People, take a moment, and reread GunnyL's post.

What's said in that post address's most, if not all of what is tearing the middle east to pieces.

Hell, we see it everyday in our lives. I'll bet you've said more than once, "if they would only work that hard at their job, rather than avoiding doing their job, they would own the place". I know I have.