America's coming civil war -- makers vs. takers Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/op

[gallantwarrior]

Most people don't have a problem with what sports figures or Hollywood notables make because it's obvious what these people bring to the table. Contrast that with upper management in most large corporations. It's generally a fraternity of greedy cronies whose philosophy of success is I'll scratch your back if you'll scratch mine.

Sports figures and Hollyweird notables bring NOTHING of significant value to the table. They live in a fantasy world, they portray fantasy worlds for those who are too stupid, weak, unimaginative, or just plain lazy to make their own world full of adventure. LIFE is an adventure, try living it for yourself and you might be surprised at the rewards you would reap. I will admit, sports figures and Hollyweird notables are certainly among the despised 1%, so why are the libshits not trying to rob them blind?

You sound like a real fun guy. What do you do in your spare time, hunt illegal aliens?

Not many illegals in Alaska, but lots of hunters...hell, maybe there is some justice.
In my "spare" time I work a part-time job and run my very own small business.
But the question stands, why do libturds worship Hollyweirdos and the errant sports hero (all 1%-ers) but want to rip the heads off of the people who make jobs happen? Or are you so steeped in your make-believe world that you have no clue how to answer that question?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

You remind me of those Germans of 1932, some choose a dictator others didn't. you would chose the dictator SO BLOW IT OUT YOUR ASS BITCH.

Wow...what a well thought out and articulate response...a Nazi reference. Clueless responses from a clueless person. Hey keep on being you...

And you should talk.

Your so called conglomerate is the result of the expansion of the Federal Government. Just look at the EPA. The rules and regulations have gotten to the point that no small business (or midsized one) could ever hope to enter a market like oil refining just because of the paperwork. Big oil does not like the EPA, but does appreciate some of the protection they bring against new competition.

GM is making all that money...what does economics tell you ? We should be seeing new entrants into the car market. Last time you saw that was ?????? Why do you think that is the case.

You idiots are so busy standing in front of your beloved federal handout (oops) government that you don't realize they are right behind you and taking full advantage of the opportunities that is giving them (for gratification at your expense) knowing you are so focused on your "causes" that you don't even know what his happening to you.

They must support the government in doing so they think they are supporting America. But what if that Government is bad for America do you still support it?
HELL NO you don't.

 

[JoeNormal]

You remind me of those Germans of 1932, some choose a dictator others didn't. you would chose the dictator SO BLOW IT OUT YOUR ASS BITCH.

Wow...what a well thought out and articulate response...a Nazi reference. Clueless responses from a clueless person. Hey keep on being you...

And you should talk.

Your so called conglomerate is the result of the expansion of the Federal Government. Just look at the EPA. The rules and regulations have gotten to the point that no small business (or midsized one) could ever hope to enter a market like oil refining just because of the paperwork. Big oil does not like the EPA, but does appreciate some of the protection they bring against new competition.

GM is making all that money...what does economics tell you ? We should be seeing new entrants into the car market. Last time you saw that was ?????? Why do you think that is the case.

You idiots are so busy standing in front of your beloved federal handout (oops) government that you don't realize they are right behind you and taking full advantage of the opportunities that is giving them (for gratification at your expense) knowing you are so focused on your "causes" that you don't even know what his happening to you.

The world is getting more complex each year. There are a lot of industries where you probably won't see a startup because the end product is more complicated than a startup could pull off. However, to address your specific question about new car companies, there's a company called Tesla the makes an electric sports car. That's bucking the odds in my opinion.

 

[Steelplate]

You remind me of those Germans of 1932, some choose a dictator others didn't. you would chose the dictator SO BLOW IT OUT YOUR ASS BITCH.

Wow...what a well thought out and articulate response...a Nazi reference. Clueless responses from a clueless person. Hey keep on being you...

And you should talk.

Your so called conglomerate is the result of the expansion of the Federal Government. Just look at the EPA. The rules and regulations have gotten to the point that no small business (or midsized one) could ever hope to enter a market like oil refining just because of the paperwork. Big oil does not like the EPA, but does appreciate some of the protection they bring against new competition.

GM is making all that money...what does economics tell you ? We should be seeing new entrants into the car market. Last time you saw that was ?????? Why do you think that is the case.

You idiots are so busy standing in front of your beloved federal handout (oops) government that you don't realize they are right behind you and taking full advantage of the opportunities that is giving them (for gratification at your expense) knowing you are so focused on your "causes" that you don't even know what his happening to you.

C'mon...be fucking serious...who's the guys that paid for that legislation that allowed those things to happen? Who are the guys who are hiding behind things like Citizen's United. Sure....it's real fucking easy to say...."yeah, but they take the money"....but the truth is...it's gotten to the point where they can't NOT take the money and have even a remote chance of winning.

But hey....money is speech right?

 

[Listening]

Wow...what a well thought out and articulate response...a Nazi reference. Clueless responses from a clueless person. Hey keep on being you...

And you should talk.

Your so called conglomerate is the result of the expansion of the Federal Government. Just look at the EPA. The rules and regulations have gotten to the point that no small business (or midsized one) could ever hope to enter a market like oil refining just because of the paperwork. Big oil does not like the EPA, but does appreciate some of the protection they bring against new competition.

GM is making all that money...what does economics tell you ? We should be seeing new entrants into the car market. Last time you saw that was ?????? Why do you think that is the case.

You idiots are so busy standing in front of your beloved federal handout (oops) government that you don't realize they are right behind you and taking full advantage of the opportunities that is giving them (for gratification at your expense) knowing you are so focused on your "causes" that you don't even know what his happening to you.

They must support the government in doing so they think they are supporting America. But what if that Government is bad for America do you still support it?
HELL NO you don't.

Historically, the founders were by and large DISTRUSTFUL of a large government. The USC flowed from the failed Articles of Confederation which were written to have a no-balls government......After Shay's (sp?) rebellion, the knew they needed to make changes. They had a hard time selling them. Hence, we got the Federalist Papers which were all written to tell us that Federal Government would be limited by the USC.

It is amazing to think that some around here actually believe the founders wrote all kinds of implied powers into the constitution. Those implied powers (unenumerated rights...as called out by asswipe Douglas) are bunk and were specifically written out of the USC.

If we need to change the federal government....we use the amendment process.

Why don't the lefties put forth a health care amendment ?

 

[Steelplate]

Ummm...yes it does. If the coy try is in shambles because of a corrupt and failing healthcare system that is bankrupting families across the nation....that definitely falls under the general welfare clause. It's not Welfare...as in Public Assistance....It's welfare as in "the country's best interest". And yes...it had gotten to that point. No matter what the AM radio boys tell you.

I don't need the AM radio boys to tell me you don't understand the General Welfare Clause.

The General Welfare Clause was not for the countries best interest. Did your AM radio boys tell you that ?

So tell me sunshine...what IS the general welfare clause and what does it entail? This ought to be good.

 

[Bfgrn]

SO...the federal government has a right to intervene when people's rights are being deprived.

Which is exactly what insurance cartels have been doing by denying coverage to people with preexisting conditions, denying treatment to people needing expensive life saving procedures because of bogus post-claims underwriting, and purging employer accounts, if a small business has an employee, who suddenly has have a lot of treatment, or is in an accident.

Your first statement is absolutely amazing.

The answer is no.......

Because the U.S. Constitution only protect certain rights.

Other so called "rights" might be granted by the states (prior to Roe....abortions were legal in some states....but it should be noted that the states that allowed them did not call them rights....but they certainly saw certain rights (such as choice) as being in play).

But Health Care or the access to Health Care is not an enumerated right and never has been.

You wondered off the path already. Where are these facts you keep claiming you have ?

I have only posted facts. If your argument is that health care is not spelled out in the Constitution, we agree. Is that all you want to debate?

Health Care or the access to Health Care may not be spelled out as an enumerated right, but it is a moral question that needs to be addressed as a nation and a people. Unless the premature death of thousands of Americans every year who don't have access to affordable health care is ok with you?

"What is true of every member of the society, individually, is true of them all collectively; since the rights of the whole can be no more than the sum of the rights of the individuals." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1789. ME 7:455, Papers 15:393

 

[Listening]

Wow...what a well thought out and articulate response...a Nazi reference. Clueless responses from a clueless person. Hey keep on being you...

And you should talk.

Your so called conglomerate is the result of the expansion of the Federal Government. Just look at the EPA. The rules and regulations have gotten to the point that no small business (or midsized one) could ever hope to enter a market like oil refining just because of the paperwork. Big oil does not like the EPA, but does appreciate some of the protection they bring against new competition.

GM is making all that money...what does economics tell you ? We should be seeing new entrants into the car market. Last time you saw that was ?????? Why do you think that is the case.

You idiots are so busy standing in front of your beloved federal handout (oops) government that you don't realize they are right behind you and taking full advantage of the opportunities that is giving them (for gratification at your expense) knowing you are so focused on your "causes" that you don't even know what his happening to you.

The world is getting more complex each year. There are a lot of industries where you probably won't see a startup because the end product is more complicated than a startup could pull off. However, to address your specific question about new car companies, there's a company called Tesla the makes an electric sports car. That's bucking the odds in my opinion.

Talk to small business owners. Economics discussed the concept of "Barriers to Entry" and the Federal Government creates most of these these days.

Big business....You may be right (I don't necessarily want a start up pharma.....), but who do you think can start up companies like that (like an airline) ? Guys with big money. So, in essence, the federal government is making it so that the only people who can compete in business are those with lots of dollars already.

Just how the hell do you think the rich keep getting richer ? You think they do it on their own. Uncle Sammy is right there helping them. I can give you several specific examples if you like.

 

[JoeNormal]

Sports figures and Hollyweird notables bring NOTHING of significant value to the table. They live in a fantasy world, they portray fantasy worlds for those who are too stupid, weak, unimaginative, or just plain lazy to make their own world full of adventure. LIFE is an adventure, try living it for yourself and you might be surprised at the rewards you would reap. I will admit, sports figures and Hollyweird notables are certainly among the despised 1%, so why are the libshits not trying to rob them blind?

You sound like a real fun guy. What do you do in your spare time, hunt illegal aliens?

Not many illegals in Alaska, but lots of hunters...hell, maybe there is some justice.
In my "spare" time I work a part-time job and run my very own small business.
But the question stands, why do libturds worship Hollyweirdos and the errant sports hero (all 1%-ers) but want to rip the heads off of the people who make jobs happen? Or are you so steeped in your make-believe world that you have no clue how to answer that question?

I don't give a crap about sports heroes. It's just not my thing. I love good movies and good music but I wouldn't walk across the street to see certain movie stars or hip hop guys. Why don't I care what they make? Because i can choose to patronize their work or not. I don't have that power with much of the corporate world. Corporations have become so intertwined that I have no idea who I'm supporting.

Now part B. I'm a design engineer who's created many patentable and profitable technologies in my career. I've developed some real contempt for the guys at the top who decide how to divide the spoils of my work while tossing me some small crumbs for my trouble.

 

[Pho_King]

Ummm...yes it does. If the coy try is in shambles because of a corrupt and failing healthcare system that is bankrupting families across the nation....that definitely falls under the general welfare clause. It's not Welfare...as in Public Assistance....It's welfare as in "the country's best interest". And yes...it had gotten to that point. No matter what the AM radio boys tell you.

I don't need the AM radio boys to tell me you don't understand the General Welfare Clause.

The General Welfare Clause was not for the countries best interest. Did your AM radio boys tell you that ?

So tell me sunshine...what IS the general welfare clause and what does it entail? This ought to be good.

According to lefty logic, the general welfare clause encompasses every possible activity that lefties deem to be in your best interest.

 

[Pho_King]

You sound like a real fun guy. What do you do in your spare time, hunt illegal aliens?

Not many illegals in Alaska, but lots of hunters...hell, maybe there is some justice.
In my "spare" time I work a part-time job and run my very own small business.
But the question stands, why do libturds worship Hollyweirdos and the errant sports hero (all 1%-ers) but want to rip the heads off of the people who make jobs happen? Or are you so steeped in your make-believe world that you have no clue how to answer that question?

I don't give a crap about sports heroes. It's just not my thing. I love good movies and good music but I wouldn't walk across the street to see certain movie stars or hip hop guys. Why don't I care what they make? Because i can choose to patronize their work or not. I don't have that power with much of the corporate world. Corporations have become so intertwined that I have no idea who I'm supporting.

Now part B. I'm a design engineer who's created many patentable and profitable technologies in my career. I've developed some real contempt for the guys at the top who decide how to divide the spoils of my work while tossing me some small crumbs for my trouble.

If you are actually the one creating those patentable and profitable technologies, and other people are reaping the windfalls, then you either sold out your ip interests, or you never had a claim to that ip, because you created them on someone else's dime. So quit whining. You got paid for efforts either way

 

[Listening]

I have only posted facts.

That is quite a claim. You didn't post one fact showing that health care is in the USC.

If your argument is that health care is not spelled out in the Constitution, we agree.

Well, I guess I am not buried on this one. What happened ?

Is that all you want to debate?

I think that I was quite clear in that.

Health Care or the access to Health Care may not be spelled out as an enumerated right, but it is a moral question that needs to be addressed as a nation and a people.

The Constitution is about the rule of law.

It is not about morals. You don't address moral obligations in law...why would you want to when you don't want religion mentioned anywhere ?

You want to discuss Health Care as a moral question, I am good with that. As I stated above, I think we do have an issue with health care availability and I blame the GOP in part. But, in no way do I believe health care is a right.

Unless the premature death of thousands of Americans every year who don't have access to affordable health care is ok with you?

Please stop making me laugh.

I hope you are not referencing the asswipe Harvard study.

"What is true of every member of the society, individually, is true of them all collectively; since the rights of the whole can be no more than the sum of the rights of the individuals." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1789. ME 7:455, Papers 15:393

And what is your point ?

That a right isn't a right unless it applies to everyone equally ? Which, if you apply it says there is no such thing as minority rights, womens rights, childrens rights or any special interest groups rights. But I digress (and I happen to agree).

**********************************

But I am back to my original position. You challenged me to a debate. I stated my basic premise (and I was going to take this to another thread and may still do so).

This was in counter your claim about dogma and how you were going to bury me with facts and figures. What you just stated above is simply dogma (and not something I totally disagree with...but dogma nonetheless). Facts and figures...you have provided none.

How does it feel ?

 

[gallantwarrior]

You sound like a real fun guy. What do you do in your spare time, hunt illegal aliens?

Not many illegals in Alaska, but lots of hunters...hell, maybe there is some justice.
In my "spare" time I work a part-time job and run my very own small business.
But the question stands, why do libturds worship Hollyweirdos and the errant sports hero (all 1%-ers) but want to rip the heads off of the people who make jobs happen? Or are you so steeped in your make-believe world that you have no clue how to answer that question?

I don't give a crap about sports heroes. It's just not my thing. I love good movies and good music but I wouldn't walk across the street to see certain movie stars or hip hop guys. Why don't I care what they make? Because i can choose to patronize their work or not. I don't have that power with much of the corporate world. Corporations have become so intertwined that I have no idea who I'm supporting.

Now part B. I'm a design engineer who's created many patentable and profitable technologies in my career. I've developed some real contempt for the guys at the top who decide how to divide the spoils of my work while tossing me some small crumbs for my trouble.

Why don't you try developing your patentable and profitable technologies yourself? Otherwise, you sell yourself cheaply.

 

[Pho_King]

We already are.

No we aren't most people take care of their own coverage or bills.

Really? Where the fuck have you been? Our excessively unsustainable insurance premiums have been due to uninsured assholes milking the system by getting "free" health care in Emergency Rooms. 62% of all bankruptcies in this country are due to medical bills that no reasonable person can hope to pay. Guess who pays for all those unpaid bills? I'll give you a minute....

What a crock of shit. If you add up all the causes of bk-medical debt, credit card debt, job loss, divorce, etc, you come up with way over 100%. Bk is always caused by multiple factors, of which medical debt may or may not be one. I'll your head out of your ass and think about what you post.

 

[francoHFW]

Yes, Harvard is a commie conspiracy...Pub/corporate dupes!!

 

[JoeNormal]

And you should talk.

Your so called conglomerate is the result of the expansion of the Federal Government. Just look at the EPA. The rules and regulations have gotten to the point that no small business (or midsized one) could ever hope to enter a market like oil refining just because of the paperwork. Big oil does not like the EPA, but does appreciate some of the protection they bring against new competition.

GM is making all that money...what does economics tell you ? We should be seeing new entrants into the car market. Last time you saw that was ?????? Why do you think that is the case.

You idiots are so busy standing in front of your beloved federal handout (oops) government that you don't realize they are right behind you and taking full advantage of the opportunities that is giving them (for gratification at your expense) knowing you are so focused on your "causes" that you don't even know what his happening to you.

The world is getting more complex each year. There are a lot of industries where you probably won't see a startup because the end product is more complicated than a startup could pull off. However, to address your specific question about new car companies, there's a company called Tesla the makes an electric sports car. That's bucking the odds in my opinion.

Talk to small business owners. Economics discussed the concept of "Barriers to Entry" and the Federal Government creates most of these these days.

Big business....You may be right (I don't necessarily want a start up pharma.....), but who do you think can start up companies like that (like an airline) ? Guys with big money. So, in essence, the federal government is making it so that the only people who can compete in business are those with lots of dollars already.

Just how the hell do you think the rich keep getting richer ? You think they do it on their own. Uncle Sammy is right there helping them. I can give you several specific examples if you like.

You don't need to convince me that corporate welfare exists in a major way. But given the resources of many of these mega-corporations, if the government weren't there to do their bidding, they'd be doing it themselves. At the height of their power, the East India Company had the largest military force in the world.

 

[Pho_King]

Not many illegals in Alaska, but lots of hunters...hell, maybe there is some justice.
In my "spare" time I work a part-time job and run my very own small business.
But the question stands, why do libturds worship Hollyweirdos and the errant sports hero (all 1%-ers) but want to rip the heads off of the people who make jobs happen? Or are you so steeped in your make-believe world that you have no clue how to answer that question?

I don't give a crap about sports heroes. It's just not my thing. I love good movies and good music but I wouldn't walk across the street to see certain movie stars or hip hop guys. Why don't I care what they make? Because i can choose to patronize their work or not. I don't have that power with much of the corporate world. Corporations have become so intertwined that I have no idea who I'm supporting.

Now part B. I'm a design engineer who's created many patentable and profitable technologies in my career. I've developed some real contempt for the guys at the top who decide how to divide the spoils of my work while tossing me some small crumbs for my trouble.

Why don't you try developing your patentable and profitable technologies yourself? Otherwise, you sell yourself cheaply.

Because its easier to whine about the guy that puts the money up while cashing those paychecks he writes.

 

[Listening]

So tell me sunshine...what IS the general welfare clause and what does it entail? This ought to be good.

You are asking now ????

I thought you knew.

James Madison in a letter writes:

With respect to the words "general welfare," I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators. If the words obtained so readily a place in the "Articles of Confederation," and received so little notice in their admission into the present Constitution, and retained for so long a time a silent place in both, the fairest explanation is, that the words, in the alternative of meaning nothing or meaning everything, had the former meaning taken for granted.

*****************************

Just so you don't blow it again.

Here is what Madison wrote in Federalist 45:

The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.

The operations of the federal government will be most extensive and important in times of war and danger; those of the State governments, in times of peace and security. As the former periods will probably bear a small proportion to the latter, the State governments will here enjoy another advantage over the federal government. The more adequate, indeed, the federal powers may be rendered to the national defense, the less frequent will be those scenes of danger which might favor their ascendancy over the governments of the particular States.

which says that the General Welfare clause gives congress what it needs to accomplish the duties (or powers to perform duties) as called out in the constitution.

Like pulling together a military.

Help ?

 

[SayMyName]

Unless we are talking about elections being suspended, I can't see any real threat or justification of civil war.

Yet, I can see a scenario of the current wave of crime against the majority population resulting in a movement toward a more active defensive posture.

 

[Bfgrn]

I don't need the AM radio boys to tell me you don't understand the General Welfare Clause.

The General Welfare Clause was not for the countries best interest. Did your AM radio boys tell you that ?

So tell me sunshine...what IS the general welfare clause and what does it entail? This ought to be good.

According to lefty logic, the general welfare clause encompasses every possible activity that lefties deem to be in your best interest.

Thank you for abdicating by rolling out the right's only defense... the polarized and the absurd.