America's Nazis; Why We Make Allowance For Them

[SAYIT]

Few Americans have had no contact with the Nazi type. We even see them on these boards selling their hate for "the inferiors" using stereotypes and generalizations, canards, half-truths and fabrications. They manage to work their hate into every post. The most virulent are easily recognized and marginalized by most Americans but I've long wondered why we tolerate them at all. Certainly our freedoms of thought and expression are key to their existence but there seems to be something more at work. Can it be we all share a bit of their racist and bigoted nature and we keep them as pets to remind us they are not who and what we want to be?

It's called freedom. Messy, ain't it?

Gloriously so and I'm not complainin', just wondering'.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

On this board Holston and Varelse stand out, but there are two or three others who also deny the Holocaust. One or two more whose names I forget, or who I have on ignore if they are too silly to be dangerous!!

Never heard of 'em.

So your definition of a nazi is anyone that denies the holocaust. Interesting.

Strictly speaking they would be Neo-Nazis or Crypto-Fascists, but the thread title refers to Nazis, and I think we all get the point.

btw, I have published extensively on Fascist theory, so I'm on fairly safe grounds defining the terms.

Seems you're redefining the term nazi.

Link to those publications. I may learn something.

 

[bripat9643]

Few Americans have had no contact with the Nazi type. We even see them on these boards selling their hate for "the inferiors" using stereotypes and generalizations, canards, half-truths and fabrications. They manage to work their hate into every post. The most virulent are easily recognized and marginalized by most Americans but I've long wondered why we tolerate them at all. Certainly our freedoms of thought and expression are key to their existence but there seems to be something more at work. Can it be we all share a bit of their racist and bigoted nature and we keep them as pets to remind us they are not who and what we want to be?

The American Nazis on this board call themselves "liberals" or "progressives."

That may be true but why do we Americans tolerate them? Do they tolerate us?

Americans tolerate them for the same reason the Germans tolerated them: At bottom, many Americans think like Nazis. They hate other people for various reasons and the Nazis play on their resentments.

 

[SAYIT]

Tolerating Nazis is not enough - they need to be very vocally and clearly opposed. They need to have their arguments undermined and faulted at every turn.

I'm surprised how few posters here really step into debate with Holocaust Deniers. Maybe it's because they don't know WWII well enough to really counter what are often very arcane arguments - which is fine - but too often I suspect it is just this passive willingness to allow free speech.

We defeated the nazi's.
Exactly who are the supposed "nazi's" you speak of?

I suppose there a number of ways to define today's Nazis but for the purpose of this thread I'd say it is someone who makes sweeping generalizations about a demographic group and willfully promotes half-truths and lies in order to express their hate be it racism, bigotry or both.

 

[bripat9643]

America's Nazis; Why We Make Allowance For Them
This thread is about Americorps isn't it?

Americorps is the American version of the Hitler Youth.

 

[OriginalShroom]

Tolerating Nazis is not enough - they need to be very vocally and clearly opposed. They need to have their arguments undermined and faulted at every turn.

I'm surprised how few posters here really step into debate with Holocaust Deniers. Maybe it's because they don't know WWII well enough to really counter what are often very arcane arguments - which is fine - but too often I suspect it is just this passive willingness to allow free speech.

We defeated the nazi's.
Exactly who are the supposed "nazi's" you speak of?

I suppose there a number of ways to define today's Nazis but for the purpose of this thread I'd say it is someone who makes sweeping generalizations about a demographic group and willfully promotes half-truths and lies in order to express their hate be it racism, bigotry or both.

Hmmm You mean like the Modern Day Democratic party and what they say about Gun Owners or those who oppose Obama's policies?

 

[PratchettFan]

Few Americans have had no contact with the Nazi type. We even see them on these boards selling their hate for "the inferiors" using stereotypes and generalizations, canards, half-truths and fabrications. They manage to work their hate into every post. The most virulent are easily recognized and marginalized by most Americans but I've long wondered why we tolerate them at all. Certainly our freedoms of thought and expression are key to their existence but there seems to be something more at work. Can it be we all share a bit of their racist and bigoted nature and we keep them as pets to remind us they are not who and what we want to be?

It's called freedom. Messy, ain't it?

Gloriously so and I'm not complainin', just wondering'.

Well, I don't think that allowing my neighbor to be a bigot makes me a bigot, or vice versa. However, I do think that we do tend to be tribal in our nature, not trusting and even dehumanizing those people we see belonging to some other tribe. That is normal human behavior.

 

[SAYIT]

America's Nazis; Why We Make Allowance For Them
This thread is about Americorps isn't it?

Americorps is the American version of the Hitler Youth.

WTF? You obviously slept through 20th Century World history. Your knowledge of Nazis is badly twisted if you think Americorps is the American version of the Hitler Youth.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Tolerating Nazis is not enough - they need to be very vocally and clearly opposed. They need to have their arguments undermined and faulted at every turn.

I'm surprised how few posters here really step into debate with Holocaust Deniers. Maybe it's because they don't know WWII well enough to really counter what are often very arcane arguments - which is fine - but too often I suspect it is just this passive willingness to allow free speech.

We defeated the nazi's.
Exactly who are the supposed "nazi's" you speak of?

I suppose there a number of ways to define today's Nazis but for the purpose of this thread I'd say it is someone who makes sweeping generalizations about a demographic group and willfully promotes half-truths and lies in order to express their hate be it racism, bigotry or both.

Oh ok then nazi = liberals.

 

[Mac1958]

.

The constant insertion of Hitler's name into contemporary American political discourse is an insult to the millions who suffered and died at that monster's hands, their families and their progeny.

As I've said, the First Amendment points out the crazies, loud and clear.

.

 

[SAYIT]

We defeated the nazi's.
Exactly who are the supposed "nazi's" you speak of?

I suppose there a number of ways to define today's Nazis but for the purpose of this thread I'd say it is someone who makes sweeping generalizations about a demographic group and willfully promotes half-truths and lies in order to express their hate be it racism, bigotry or both.

Hmmm You mean like the Modern Day Democratic party and what they say about Gun Owners or those who oppose Obama's policies?

You're like a broken record. Today's Nazis come from all sides of the political spectrum. What unites them is mindless hate for "the other" and an uncontrollable eagerness to express their hate.

 

[SAYIT]

It's called freedom. Messy, ain't it?

Gloriously so and I'm not complainin', just wondering'.

Well, I don't think that allowing my neighbor to be a bigot makes me a bigot, or vice versa. However, I do think that we do tend to be tribal in our nature, not trusting and even dehumanizing those people we see belonging to some other tribe. That is normal human behavior.

I agree with your first sentence but is tribalism in 21st Century America a viable excuse for mindless bigotry because that's how your post reads. There is nothing normal about being Nazi-ish.

 

[SAYIT]

We defeated the nazi's.
Exactly who are the supposed "nazi's" you speak of?

I suppose there a number of ways to define today's Nazis but for the purpose of this thread I'd say it is someone who makes sweeping generalizations about a demographic group and willfully promotes half-truths and lies in order to express their hate be it racism, bigotry or both.

Oh ok then nazi = liberals.

Woo.
OK, your message has been received ... you're a simple-minded one trick pony. Thanks for playin'.

 

[PratchettFan]

We defeated the nazi's.
Exactly who are the supposed "nazi's" you speak of?

I suppose there a number of ways to define today's Nazis but for the purpose of this thread I'd say it is someone who makes sweeping generalizations about a demographic group and willfully promotes half-truths and lies in order to express their hate be it racism, bigotry or both.

Oh ok then nazi = liberals.

Or Nazi = conservative. Nazi = Christian. Nazi = Atheist. That is a definition so broad as to be applied to just about anyone. You might as well say Nazi = the guy who doesn't agree that I am right.

 

[SAYIT]

Tolerating Nazis is not enough - they need to be very vocally and clearly opposed. They need to have their arguments undermined and faulted at every turn.

I'm surprised how few posters here really step into debate with Holocaust Deniers. Maybe it's because they don't know WWII well enough to really counter what are often very arcane arguments - which is fine - but too often I suspect it is just this passive willingness to allow free speech.

These might be reasons, but I think a major reason many refuse to engage these folks in debate is that their arguments are so insane and convoluted that no amount of facts will change their mind and the debate is often seen as pointless.

It goes back to the whole "wrestling with pigs" analogy.

True, but as both Mac and Sai pointed out, we are probably better served by continuing to shine the light on them.

 

[PratchettFan]

Gloriously so and I'm not complainin', just wondering'.

Well, I don't think that allowing my neighbor to be a bigot makes me a bigot, or vice versa. However, I do think that we do tend to be tribal in our nature, not trusting and even dehumanizing those people we see belonging to some other tribe. That is normal human behavior.

I agree with your first sentence but is tribalism in 21st Century America a viable excuse for mindless bigotry because that's how your post reads. There is nothing normal about being Nazi-ish.

An excuse? I'm not sure what you mean by that. Bigotry is human. The less restrictive you are on people, the more that humanity is going to come out. So freedom and bigotry go hand in hand. The only way around that I can see is to get rid of all of the humans.

You are tossing out the "Nazi" and, as has been pointed out in other posts, that is an essentially meaningless term.

 

[Flopper]

Few Americans have had no contact with the Nazi type. We even see them on these boards selling their hate for "the inferiors" using stereotypes and generalizations, canards, half-truths and fabrications. They manage to work their hate into every post. The most virulent are easily recognized and marginalized by most Americans but I've long wondered why we tolerate them at all. Certainly our freedoms of thought and expression are key to their existence but there seems to be something more at work. Can it be we all share a bit of their racist and bigoted nature and we keep them as pets to remind us they are not who and what we want to be?

All people are racist and bigots. It's just a matter of degree. As children, our parents and our peers teach us by word or dead to fear those that are different. Fear easily turns to hate. As we grow older, most of us learn to overcome this; some never do.

I agree we all harbor racist and bigoted sentiments and that the vast majority of us overcome those sentiments. I'm just looking for reasons why Americans tolerate those who not only can't but are compelled to express their mindless hate.

You ask why Americans tolerate this behavior. I have a couple of ideas but why say Americans? I have seen plenty of bigotry and racism elsewhere in the world, in some places a lot worst than in the US.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I suppose there a number of ways to define today's Nazis but for the purpose of this thread I'd say it is someone who makes sweeping generalizations about a demographic group and willfully promotes half-truths and lies in order to express their hate be it racism, bigotry or both.

Oh ok then nazi = liberals.

Woo.
OK, your message has been received ... you're a simple-minded one trick pony. Thanks for playin'.

Hey that's your definition and it is rather simple. Anyone can see the similarities in your definition and liberals.

Oh and speaking of bigotry, yours is showing.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Tolerating Nazis is not enough - they need to be very vocally and clearly opposed. They need to have their arguments undermined and faulted at every turn.

I'm surprised how few posters here really step into debate with Holocaust Deniers. Maybe it's because they don't know WWII well enough to really counter what are often very arcane arguments - which is fine - but too often I suspect it is just this passive willingness to allow free speech.

These might be reasons, but I think a major reason many refuse to engage these folks in debate is that their arguments are so insane and convoluted that no amount of facts will change their mind and the debate is often seen as pointless.

It goes back to the whole "wrestling with pigs" analogy.

True, but as both Mac and Sai pointed out, we are probably better served by continuing to shine the light on them.

Why?

Seems to me that would give them more attention than they deserve.

 

[Dutch]

Because they control the white house? jk

America's Nazis control the White House? Could you expand on that?

He can't, because his premise is destroyed when he is free to post on this message board without fear of a midnight knock on the door from the Gestapo.