An American professor defends Stalin

[CrusaderFrank]

I'd have to disagree with him on several points, specifically the non-invasion of Poland by the Soviets.

Why?

Polish high command did not think that the Red Army invaded them;

The Red Army entered territories previously ANNEXED by Poland (even now Western Ukraine doesn't want to go back to Poland!);

The Red Army entered Western Ukraine the day AFTER Polish government surrendered its powers to London.

USSR never invaded Poland...LOL

OK.

Sure.

LOL

 

[CrusaderFrank]

No wonder US Liberals love Uncle Joe, he was just misunderstood

 

[CrusaderFrank]

USSR never invaded Poland...LOL

OK.

Sure.

LOL

Then tell me, which of these points you are ready to dispute:

Polish high command did not think that the Red Army invaded them;

The Red Army entered territories previously ANNEXED by Poland (even now Western Ukraine doesn't want to go back to Poland!);

The Red Army entered Western Ukraine the day AFTER Polish government surrendered its powers to London.

Was it still Poland when Stalin invaded or was it some other country?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Then tell me, which of these points you are ready to dispute:

Polish high command did not think that the Red Army invaded them;

The Red Army entered territories previously ANNEXED by Poland (even now Western Ukraine doesn't want to go back to Poland!);

The Red Army entered Western Ukraine the day AFTER Polish government surrendered its powers to London.

Was it still Poland when Stalin invaded or was it some other country?

1. Soviet Union did not invade Poland because Poland as a state no longer existed.

You would fail a history exam on that simple answer: a no information student.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Stalin and his cohorts intentionally starved millions of Ukrainians and others.

Stalin authorized the executions of nearly 200,000 "political enemies" in the later 1930s.

Stalin and the Nazis both engaged in executing the Polish leadership.

Stalin was a dictator who worked with other authoritarians.

The USSR did invade Poland from the East in September 1939.

Plenty of evidence exists that the Soviets “massacred thousands of innocent” Poles.

That teaching that opposed the above were examples of poor critical thinking.

1. If Stalin starved Ukrainians, who was starving people in Poland, Hungary, Germany, Romania, Slovakia, US and UK in 1930-s?

2. Why only "200000"? It's 200 000 000 000 000 000 -- every edumacated Westerner knows that!

3. Would it be the same "leadership" that legged it to Britain on the 17-s of September 1939?

4. a) Anything to support your assumption that Stalin was a "dictator"? b) why in your opinion a "dictator" is bad if the absolute majority of the population supported him and still think of him as one of the greatest statesmen in history?!

5. a) Polish high command did not think so. b) The Red Army reclaimed West Ukraine previously annexed by Poland. c) The Red Army entered West Ukraine AFTER Polish government surrendered its powers to London.

6. Like the investigation conducted by Dr Goebbels?!

1. We are talking about Ukraine.

2. You admit you don't know.

3. Immaterial.

4. a and b would identify you as a failure, a no information student.

5. a) the great majority did think so b) had to invade it to do so c) immaterial

6. immaterial

Addendum: you are not very good at Eastern European history, are you?

 

[Votto]

I'd have to disagree with him on several points, specifically the non-invasion of Poland by the Soviets.

However, I would defend his right to teach such stuff simply because it is only by examining everything and questioning everything that true learning occurs. If alternate opinions, even as blatantly twisted as this, are not allowed to be taught, then you don't have education: you have indoctrination and that's different.

Do you also feel that way when it comes to re-examining the Holocaust story of the jews? .......

Everyone knows that the Holocaust never happend and Stalin was a saint.

The real culprits are the Jewish capitalist bankers. They have slain billions of innocent peoples blood and need to be all cast into the sea!!

Honestly, anyone who would ally with Hitler and divide the nation of Poland with them is the scum of the universe. It shows you just how similar the two ideologies were.

Deal with it lefty's.

 

[Votto]

When England declared war on Germany for invading Poland, they should have also declared war on the USSR who later did the same and divided the country.

 

[Oldguy]

Then tell me, which of these points you are ready to dispute:

Polish high command did not think that the Red Army invaded them;

The Red Army entered territories previously ANNEXED by Poland (even now Western Ukraine doesn't want to go back to Poland!);

The Red Army entered Western Ukraine the day AFTER Polish government surrendered its powers to London.

Was it still Poland when Stalin invaded or was it some other country?

1. Soviet Union did not invade Poland because Poland as a state no longer existed.

That's splitting an awfully fine hair, isn't it?

 

[JakeStarkey]

1. We are talking about Ukraine.

2. You admit you don't know.

3. Immaterial.

4. a and b would identify you as a failure, a no information student.

5. a) the great majority did think so b) had to invade it to do so c) immaterial

6. immaterial

Addendum: you are not very good at Eastern European history, are you?

1. We are talking about you accusing Stalin of causing famine in Ukraine; and me asking you a simple question: if Stalin is guilty of causing famine in Ukraine in 1930-s, who is guilty of causing famine in Poland, Hungary, Romania, Slovakia, Germany, USA and UK in 1930-s? Answer it, please.

2. Of course I know:
At the peak of "repressions" -- 1937 the whole system of GULAG contained 1.196.369 people. Out of that number 87% were criminals. The remaining %% were there for commiting contr-revolutionary crimes: acts of terrorism, sabotage, anti-Soviet agitation, treason.

In 1947 GULAG contained 1.7 million inmates, out of that number -- 40% criminals, the rest were former Nazi police, trators, Nazi agents, OUN/UPA, Vlasovtsy, Forest Brothers and other "inocent" creatures.

The maximum number GULAG ever held was in 1950 -- 2 561 351; out of that number 77% were criminals, the rest: see paragraph above.

For comparison: now, in peaceful times in the most democratic and free democracy of all -- USA 2.3 million people are in prisons and camps. And that's not taking into account Guantanamo and other CIA prisons.


3. How can it be "immaterial" if you stated that Polish leadership was executed when in actual fact Polish leadership legged it to Britain?! It serves to show that you haven't got a clue of what you are talking about and are attempting to wriggle your way out of a sticky place you got yourself into with your ignorance!

4. Since we already identified you as pretentious ignorant your opinion is of no importance. But you did not answer my questions: a) Anything to support your assumption that Stalin was a "dictator"? b) why in your opinion a "dictator" is bad if the absolute majority of the population supported him and still think of him as one of the greatest statesmen in history?!

5. Conclusion:
a) you haven't got a clue that Polish high command issued an order to Polish army NOT to engage the Red Army, while to continue fighting the Germans;
b) You haven't got a clue that West Ukraine is part of Ukraine, was invaded and annexed by Poland in 1922, was liberated and reunited with the rest of Ukraine in 1939 after Poland as a state ceased to exist.
c) You are clueless of the fact that a state can no exist without government and a territory!

6. How come a fact that all your knowledge of history comes from Dr Goebbels whose propaganda US adopted for the purposes of the Cold War be "immaterial"?!


The more you repeat "immaterial" instead of answering questions, the more you betray your profound ignorance of the subjects you attempt to discuss. With your level of intelligence you better stick to discussing pizza toppings.

This has already been historically dismissed.

You would fail a WWII history course.

Move along.

 

[Unkotare]

What the hell is with this mememe freak who has a fetish for murderous dictators? What the hell kind of bizarre trauma brings that on?

 

[JakeStarkey]

I am glad that Stalin apologetics has been introduced to the Board.

The apologists will be introduced into critical thinking, evidence evaluation, and constructive analysis.

All of that is better than being taken out and shot.

 

[Oldguy]

1. We are talking about Ukraine.

2. You admit you don't know.

3. Immaterial.

4. a and b would identify you as a failure, a no information student.

5. a) the great majority did think so b) had to invade it to do so c) immaterial

6. immaterial

Addendum: you are not very good at Eastern European history, are you?

1. We are talking about you accusing Stalin of causing famine in Ukraine; and me asking you a simple question: if Stalin is guilty of causing famine in Ukraine in 1930-s, who is guilty of causing famine in Poland, Hungary, Romania, Slovakia, Germany, USA and UK in 1930-s? Answer it, please.

2. Of course I know:
At the peak of "repressions" -- 1937 the whole system of GULAG contained 1.196.369 people. Out of that number 87% were criminals. The remaining %% were there for commiting contr-revolutionary crimes: acts of terrorism, sabotage, anti-Soviet agitation, treason.

In 1947 GULAG contained 1.7 million inmates, out of that number -- 40% criminals, the rest were former Nazi police, trators, Nazi agents, OUN/UPA, Vlasovtsy, Forest Brothers and other "inocent" creatures.

The maximum number GULAG ever held was in 1950 -- 2 561 351; out of that number 77% were criminals, the rest: see paragraph above.

For comparison: now, in peaceful times in the most democratic and free democracy of all -- USA 2.3 million people are in prisons and camps. And that's not taking into account Guantanamo and other CIA prisons.


3. How can it be "immaterial" if you stated that Polish leadership was executed when in actual fact Polish leadership legged it to Britain?! It serves to show that you haven't got a clue of what you are talking about and are attempting to wriggle your way out of a sticky place you got yourself into with your ignorance!

4. Since we already identified you as pretentious ignorant your opinion is of no importance. But you did not answer my questions: a) Anything to support your assumption that Stalin was a "dictator"? b) why in your opinion a "dictator" is bad if the absolute majority of the population supported him and still think of him as one of the greatest statesmen in history?!

5. Conclusion:
a) you haven't got a clue that Polish high command issued an order to Polish army NOT to engage the Red Army, while to continue fighting the Germans;
b) You haven't got a clue that West Ukraine is part of Ukraine, was invaded and annexed by Poland in 1922, was liberated and reunited with the rest of Ukraine in 1939 after Poland as a state ceased to exist.
c) You are clueless of the fact that a state can no exist without government and a territory!

6. How come a fact that all your knowledge of history comes from Dr Goebbels whose propaganda US adopted for the purposes of the Cold War be "immaterial"?!


The more you repeat "immaterial" instead of answering questions, the more you betray your profound ignorance of the subjects you attempt to discuss. With your level of intelligence you better stick to discussing pizza toppings.

Much of what you offer here turns on the definition of criminals, which was a somewhat fluid description when it pertains to those hauled before the Soviet Union's kangaroo courts, wouldn't you say?

Do you really think Soviet courts were fair and honest, that the intent was to determine guilt or innocence and which protected the rights of the accused?

 

[JakeStarkey]

This has already been historically dismissed.

.

Jake, why do you bother posting on POLITICAL forum? You miserably failed to answer a single question! Even by US standards you are stoopid; compared to you MHooter is an intellectual giant!

That's it, as far as I am concerned, you no longer exist.

I sufficiently answered every question. Revisionism needs to be based on new evidence, not new interpretation.

You won't make it as an historian.

 

[JakeStarkey]

What the hell is with this mememe freak who has a fetish for murderous dictators? What the hell kind of bizarre trauma brings that on?

Are you capable of uttering anything apart from rehearsed mantras and slogans? (rhetorical question)

"rehearsed mantras and slogans" are the signals of Stalinism.

Run along.

 

[Unkotare]

What the hell is with this mememe freak who has a fetish for murderous dictators? What the hell kind of bizarre trauma brings that on?

Are you capable of uttering anything apart from rehearsed mantras and slogans? (rhetorical question)

Paging Dr. Freud, Dr. Freud...emergency...

 

[JakeStarkey]

What the hell is with this mememe freak who has a fetish for murderous dictators? What the hell kind of bizarre trauma brings that on?

Are you capable of uttering anything apart from rehearsed mantras and slogans? (rhetorical question)

Paging Dr. Freud, Dr. Freud...emergency...

 

[JakeStarkey]

Much of what you offer here turns on the definition of criminals, which was a somewhat fluid description when it pertains to those hauled before the Soviet Union's kangaroo courts, wouldn't you say?

Do you really think Soviet courts were fair and honest, that the intent was to determine guilt or innocence and which protected the rights of the accused?

Who told you that Soviet Union had "kangaroo courts"?! Your propaganda merchants? The same ones who tell you that US is a "free, democratic" country, yet it is a country where police and military have the right to imprison people INDEFINITELY without any proof of their crimes and without an access to a lawyer; a country where CIA and FBI now have the right to murder both US citizens and non-US citizens on SUSPICION of "anti-American" activities; a country where torture of suspects is legal?!

Deflection does not count, mememe. Did the USSR have kangaroo courts: yes. Did the USSR imprison people indefinitely: yes. Did the KGB murder people without warrant: yes.

mememe, you are no historian.

 

[MHunterB]

Mimi is a Soviet shill.

 

[Oldguy]

Much of what you offer here turns on the definition of criminals, which was a somewhat fluid description when it pertains to those hauled before the Soviet Union's kangaroo courts, wouldn't you say?

Do you really think Soviet courts were fair and honest, that the intent was to determine guilt or innocence and which protected the rights of the accused?

Who told you that Soviet Union had "kangaroo courts"?! Your propaganda merchants? The same ones who tell you that US is a "free, democratic" country, yet it is a country where police and military have the right to imprison people INDEFINITELY without any proof of their crimes and without an access to a lawyer; a country where CIA and FBI now have the right to murder both US citizens and non-US citizens on SUSPICION of "anti-American" activities; a country where torture of suspects is legal?!

Nice tirade, but you offered no proof of the legitimacy of Soviet courts.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Deflection again, mememe. You are on the run now, and that will not stop until you are run to the ground. And that will happen as surely as the sun comes up tomorrow.