An independent look at Russia-NATO history and Ukraine War.

[toomuchtime_]

Maybe, but some are now of the opinion that Russia is relatively untouchable on account of it's own massive natural resources, the support of China's freely offered wealth and assistance, and the more than 70 other countries that have taken Russia's side.

Whatever side will prevail, you need to think in terms of this being America's final war for all the marbles, against Russia and the Brics alliance.

There's no need for us to even get to contemplating how Russia has the ability to turn America into a glass parking lot as its last resort at saving mother Russia.

Nonsense. China and India are exploiting Russia's economic problems by demanding a 30% discount on gas and oil, and other than North Korea, no one has taken Russia's side. As for the Bric's, South Africa has said it will arrest Putin if he goes there and if pushed Brazil will also say that.

America is not fighting this war but along with 50 other nations is providing aid to Ukraine to help it fight off Russia's imperialist aggression.

Of course you return to nonsense about nukes because you understand all the rest of your post is bullshit.

 

[theHawk]

In other words, once again, you are incapable of addressing any of the points I made about the stupidity of the Russian leadership or the dire straits Putin has led Russia into. Since you continue to run away from my points, I must assume you agree with them, however reluctantly.

You didn’t make any points. You just claim that Russia is basically ready to collapse as though it were fact. But there is no real way of knowing. So all you are doing is regurgitating anti-Russian propaganda.

 

[theHawk]

Only a fool would feel confident Russia can win this war. The most Putin can do is to continue this war while exhausting Russia's resources and installing increasingly repressive measures against the Russian population as resources are drained away from domestic projects to pay for the war.

Cool. So when Russia collapses…then what? What happens to their huge nuclear arsenal? What is to stop Russian generals and soldiers from selling nukes on the black market, to the enemies of the US?

You all thought it was dumb to overthrow Saddam without any plan to replace him. This is a thousand times worse.

 

[theHawk]

As for the Bric's, South Africa has said it will arrest Putin if he goes there

Yea…I’m sure Putin is devastated…

 

[theHawk]

It is a fact that you cannot find any explicit threat of using nukes against the US or in Ukraine by Putin except in case Russia faces an existential threat.

Why would they need to give an explicit threat first before using nukes?

This has to be the single dumbest bit of reasoning I’ve seen yet.

 

[toomuchtime_]

You didn’t make any points. You just claim that Russia is basically ready to collapse as though it were fact. But there is no real way of knowing. So all you are doing is regurgitating anti-Russian propaganda.

I didn't say Russia is ready to collapse, but it is certainly heading in that direction. My point was about the incredible stupidity of the leadership in Russia that has taken it from being one of the fastest growing economies in the world, on the cusp of real prosperity for the first time in its history, to having a shrinking economy that is piling up huge deficits each month that it cannot finance, meaning it is heading in the same diirection as North Korea. All of this happened because of Putin's reckless invasion of Ukraine.

From the first day of the invasion, every decision Putin has made has been wrong. He underestimated the determination of the Ukrainians to resist a Russian takeover, he underestimated the determination of the western allies to prevent that Russian capture of Ukraine, he overestimated the leverage he had because of Russian sales of oil and gas to Europe, he has underestimated the effectiveness of western advanced weapons in neutralizing Russian air attacks and Russian logistics. Every decision he has made has been a wrong decision. We all know this to be true.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Cool. So when Russia collapses…then what? What happens to their huge nuclear arsenal? What is to stop Russian generals and soldiers from selling nukes on the black market, to the enemies of the US?

You all thought it was dumb to overthrow Saddam without any plan to replace him. This is a thousand times worse.

North Korea hasn't collapsed so why would Russia? Russia will simply become a poorer and more repressive state unless it changes course and abandons its imperialist ambitions.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

This is why America's propaganda blitz was so intense and was started well before Russia had to move against the Ukrainians acting as America's proxy.

Russia did not have to move. It should have honored the 1991 treaty and not interfere, Hitler-like, with the four eastern oblasts and Crimea.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Yea…I’m sure Putin is devastated…

These are two of the Bric's that Putinheads claim will support Russia, but they clearly are more interested in keeping good relations with the West than in supporting Russia.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Why would they need to give an explicit threat first before using nukes?

This has to be the single dumbest bit of reasoning I’ve seen yet.

You miss the point. Donald H. said Putin had threatened to use nukes in Ukraine, and I pointed out that he never has made that threat.

 

[Silver Cat]

You miss the point. Donald H. said Putin had threatened to use nukes in Ukraine, and I pointed out that he never has made that threat.

Actually, it depends on your definition of the world "threat". He had mentioned nuclear weapon many times. He is a politician, and the Russians love nuclear weapons. They believe that the nuclear weapons and the decisiveness to use it (if necessary) is the only thing that stays between them and the fate of Yugoslavia, Iraq, Lybia, Syria, Baltic states or Ukraine.
Simultaneously, they wanna live, that's why they prefer saving their lives to killing Americans, and therefore their first strike (under more or less "normal" circumstances) have to be "counter-force strike" - something like "Pearl Harbor scenario". That means, that it must be surprising attack, and the enemy must be uncertain if their actions are bluff or real preparations for such an attack.
Did they declared their readiness to use nuclear weapons, if necessary? Yes.
Are they making their preparation? Yes.
Is it bluff? It's not clear. (But with degrading American Credible Second Strike Capability - there are much more chances that it will be a real attack).

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Americans and their leaders are not uncertain at all.

If the Russians prepare to use nukes, which the West will know, the US and France and UK will obliterate Russia.

 

[Donald H]

.................... and other than North Korea, no one has taken Russia's side.

If you're going to lie then you can stop right there!

 

[toomuchtime_]

If you're going to lie then you can stop right there!

Talk about lying, that statement didn't appear in the post you are pretending to respond to; nevertheless, it is true. North Korea is the only country that has publicly endorsed Russia's goal of taking over Ukraine.

 

[Ringo]

 

[Ringo]

 

[Silver Cat]

Americans and their leaders are not uncertain at all.

If the Russians prepare to use nukes, which the West will know, the US and France and UK will obliterate Russia.

The problem is that the USA don't have enough nukes for obliteration of Russia, even in the "Mad Butcher" scenario. Much lesser we have the Credible First (counter-force) Strike Capability, or a Limited Nuckear War Capability. And we can't fight against Russia and China simultaneously in the bulk of scenarios.
And if there is a choice between an "unsatisfactory peace" and "committing murder-suicide", American leaders always choose peace.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

The problem is that the USA don't have enough nukes for obliteration of Russia, even in the "Mad Butcher" scenario. Much lesser we have the Credible First (counter-force) Strike Capability, or a Limited Nuckear War Capability. And we can't fight against Russia and China simultaneously in the bulk of scenarios.
And if there is a choice between an "unsatisfactory peace" and "committing murder-suicide", American leaders always choose peace.

You are so wrong. Russia will disappear, period, forever.

 

[Silver Cat]

You are so wrong. Russia will disappear, period, forever.

No. The official position of the US government, written in NDS - is quite simple. If the deterrence fails - the USA won't commit a murder-suicide. The USA will seek the best opportunity possible (which may mean, or may not mean a retaliation strike).

And no, US, even in the possible retaliation strike won't intentionally target civilian population or objects.

https://media.defense.gov/2022/Oct/27/2003103845/-1/-1/1/2022-NATIONAL-DEFENSE-STRATEGY-NPR-MDR.PDF

 

[Ringo]

Russia will disappear, period, forever.

Remember his fate, you stinking nit.