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Where's the science that says it is? I can claim polar bears can turn into wolves but it's up to me to back it up. And don't post the opinion of some shrink as science.I said why I said natural. How many times before your brain can receive what it disagrees with? No, gender is not anything like handedness. You're full of shit. If you have to point to what someone else thinks is evil to make your point look better that says a lot about your point.More semantics. You seem to need to put words in people's mouths so you can argue. We went from gender to left handedness. Those are the same to you?
First - YOU used the word natural. I am building from your arguments.
Second - gender identity and handedness are absolutely comparable.
Being a lefty is unusual, and was therefore once considered unnatural (with all value judgment it implies). It was even deemed evil. Teachers and parents would change the child's handedness to the right. The child would eventually adjust, but the very act of writing with the right hand wasn't natural to them. And so the child's inborn inclination was squashed and directed to something acceptable to society.
Identifying with a different gender is considered unnatural, some even think evil. Teachers and parents have tried to change how a child acts to go along with their biological gender's accepted behavior. The child eventually adjusts, but the very act of pretending to be a gender they don't feel isn't natural to them. And so the child's inborn inclination was squashed and directed to something acceptable to society.
Children aren't born gay or mis-gendered. That's what your hypnotist conditioned you to think. Natural feelings can very definitely be over ridden by a human created environment.
Where's the science to support that children aren't born with their sexual orientation or gender identity?
Wow. Unwilling or unable to back up your assertion.
Well, I can go by the words of gay and transgender people who say they've felt this way as long as they remember. Also, when children are left to develop without too much "corrective" interference, they show homosexuality and different gender identity on their own.
I will, however, look for a source.....something
you are unwilling to do, you gigantic ignorant pussy.
Frankly, if she'd been a man with her ideas, she probably would have won Trump.
Between the (Gender) Lines: the Science of Transgender Identity - Science in the News
"First and foremost, is gender identity genetic? It seems the answer is yes – though, as with most traits involving identity, there is some environmental influence. One classic way for scientists to test whether a trait (which can be any characteristic from red hair to cancer susceptibility to love of horror movies) is influenced by genetics is twin studies. "
Newflash, Punkin. The answer isn't "yes" if you're qualifying it with "seems". If it's genetic, then there's a specific identifiable gene creating it. Find that gene, and THEN we'll discuss it as genetic fact.
Of course, then that leads us to the fact that things like schizophrenia, alcoholism, and many birth defects are genetic in nature, and therefore "genetic" does not equal "desirable and good".
I provided more evidence pointing to genetics than Iceweasel provided pointing to "brainwashing." The science isn't complete.
You're right, genetic doesn't always mean desirable. But it does mean "natural."
Keep your eyes on the goalposts.
I said why I said natural. How many times before your brain can receive what it disagrees with? No, gender is not anything like handedness. You're full of shit. If you have to point to what someone else thinks is evil to make your point look better that says a lot about your point.More semantics. You seem to need to put words in people's mouths so you can argue. We went from gender to left handedness. Those are the same to you?
First - YOU used the word natural. I am building from your arguments.
Second - gender identity and handedness are absolutely comparable.
Being a lefty is unusual, and was therefore once considered unnatural (with all value judgment it implies). It was even deemed evil. Teachers and parents would change the child's handedness to the right. The child would eventually adjust, but the very act of writing with the right hand wasn't natural to them. And so the child's inborn inclination was squashed and directed to something acceptable to society.
Identifying with a different gender is considered unnatural, some even think evil. Teachers and parents have tried to change how a child acts to go along with their biological gender's accepted behavior. The child eventually adjusts, but the very act of pretending to be a gender they don't feel isn't natural to them. And so the child's inborn inclination was squashed and directed to something acceptable to society.
Children aren't born gay or mis-gendered. That's what your hypnotist conditioned you to think. Natural feelings can very definitely be over ridden by a human created environment.
Where's the science to support that children aren't born with their sexual orientation or gender identity?
You don't prove a negative, you halfwit. It's not our job to prove they AREN'T, it's YOUR job to prove they ARE, particularly since YOU are the one making a brand-new assertion and demanding that millennia of societal norms be reconfigured to suit it.
The only science on the subject of a child's sex/gender at the moment would be their chromosomes, and you utterly dismiss THAT out-of-hand simply because you don't like the outcome, so it makes it difficult to take seriously any demand for "science" on your part.
So don't find evidence for the negative. Find evidence to support that brainwashing causes transgenderism and homosexuality.
Then look up Alexander the Great, Leonardo DaVinci, Michaelangelo, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Oscar Wilde, Walt Whitman, Tchaikovsky..........to start.
That's your prerogative but you are pretending there are no norms or natural order. Humans have known/accepted it since day one for all these thousands of years but suddenly the left would have us believe things like gender is a state of mind rather than biology.
Things that are unusual can still be "normal." Unless you consider left-handedness "abnormal."
Cecilie, as much as she tried to run away from it, had an excellent point. But it's not just "unnatural" and "abnormal" that are the loaded words. They are loaded because their root words have come to have values judgments attached to them, too.
Speaking as a left-hander, I can tell you that I feel no oversensitive need to redefine it with "nice" words in order to spare my feelings. Left-handedness is natural, but it is not normal. It's an anomaly. And I'm okay with that.
I haven't "tried to run away from a damned thing", you twit. Try to comprehend English, for God's sake. "Unnatural" and "abnormal" contain negative connotations as part of their denotations. "Natural" and "normal" depend much more for connotation on how badly someone wants to get their super-sensitive snowflake feelings hurt. In this regard, I took both posters very carefully into account, and specifically noted that Ice used "natural" in its most basic, emotion-free context.
Are you old enough that people tried to change your handedness? It used to be a real thing.
The point isn't that you're overly sensitive about it, or need different words to describe it, the point is that people feel the need to change a person's nature to suit "norms." Like they used to change left-handers.
No, I'm old enough that my grandmother made an occasional remark about it, but my mother summarily ignored the old biddy, as she did on everything. Can't really see the point, though, since it is a logical fallacy to say that anything anyone has ever tried to change is automatically the exact same as gender dysphoria, and thus conveys the same level of "okay-ness" by association.
Some things NEED to be changed, and some things don't. Left-handedness doesn't require a change, since it brings nothing more than minor inconveniences, most of which have been eliminated within my own lifetime by the advance of technology. Believing that you are one sex when biologically you are the other is just a smidgen different, and I don't think the advent of cordless phones had much of an impact.
Why should a boy wanting to be a girl be changed?
The vast majority of Americans can't handle the truth! Often it's just too boring.
and Obama because he is Black ...got it
More semantics. You seem to need to put words in people's mouths so you can argue. We went from gender to left handedness. Those are the same to you?That's your prerogative but you are pretending there are no norms or natural order. Humans have known/accepted it since day one for all these thousands of years but suddenly the left would have us believe things like gender is a state of mind rather than biology.
Things that are unusual can still be "normal." Unless you consider left-handedness "abnormal."
Cecilie, as much as she tried to run away from it, had an excellent point. But it's not just "unnatural" and "abnormal" that are the loaded words. They are loaded because their root words have come to have values judgments attached to them, too.
First - YOU used the word natural. I am building from your arguments.
Second - gender identity and handedness are absolutely comparable.
Being a lefty is unusual, and was therefore once considered unnatural (with all value judgment it implies). It was even deemed evil. Teachers and parents would change the child's handedness to the right. The child would eventually adjust, but the very act of writing with the right hand wasn't natural to them. And so the child's inborn inclination was squashed and directed to something acceptable to society.
Identifying with a different gender is considered unnatural, some even think evil. Teachers and parents have tried to change how a child acts to go along with their biological gender's accepted behavior. The child eventually adjusts, but the very act of pretending to be a gender they don't feel isn't natural to them. And so the child's inborn inclination was squashed and directed to something acceptable to society.
"Gender identity" and hand preferences are not the least bit comparable, until such time as you can produce a gene for "gender identity" (because in case you didn't know, left-handedness is an identifiable genetic mutation). Even if that were to happen, you would still have to deal with the difference that left-handedness is a very minor and utterly benign mutation that produces little to no impact on one's life, beyond perhaps occasional inconvience, and the same cannot be said about gender dysphoria.
Furthermore, because left-handedness is itself a specific genetic mutation, it has no equivalent component of conflicting with the biological reality of one's genetics, as "gender identity" does. The equivalent would actually be someone who is genetically right-handed, but "feels" he or she is lefthanded because he/she perceives left-handedness to be somehow "better".
You're wrong. Look at the science.
I thank you for proving my point. You're brainwashed.Iceweasel , don't run off. I did your fucking homework, now come back and thank me!
"McCarthy and other experts cautioned that the discovery of epigenomic marks suggestive of homosexuality is a far cry from finding the causes of sexual preference."
Yes, the science isn't complete, but it leans toward genetic instead of learned behavior.
I'm sorry if complexity hurts your brain.
In other words you will point to past shortcomings to justify whatever you want. That's not rational.I'm afraid of what? Not getting brainwashed like you? Did granny try to turn you into a boy? Somehow I think she wouldn't agree with you.You'd have to be pretty old for the left handed changing think. My older brother was left handed and would be 65 by now and there was no attempt to change him. Now I inherited his baseball mitt so to this day I still throw as a lefty but I'm right handed. Didn't turn me queer though, which is the point. You are mixed up due to the anti-establishment conformity.
Yeah, changing hands fell out of vogue quite a while back, but my grandma still asked my mom if she shouldn't move my spoon to the other hand when I was learning to eat.
I am not mixed up. The "conditions" are synonymous, but one is accepted now, and the other, you're afraid of.
You're afraid of being even thought of gay or feminine. But not of being left-handed.
My grandma was a product of her time. She just knew that's how she grew up. Of course she wouldn't agree with me on this subject. And my great great grandmother wouldn't agree with me going to college. And my great grandmother wouldn't agree with me marrying a black man.
But we learn, we change. Thank goodness.
No, I point to past shortcomings to cut people some slack for what they used to believe. I point to reality today to "justify" behavior that is no one else's business to curb.
So your victory dance was premature and science does not support it. So I was right, you're full of shit.I thank you for proving my point. You're brainwashed.Iceweasel , don't run off. I did your fucking homework, now come back and thank me!
"McCarthy and other experts cautioned that the discovery of epigenomic marks suggestive of homosexuality is a far cry from finding the causes of sexual preference."
Yes, the science isn't complete, but it leans toward genetic instead of learned behavior.
I'm sorry if complexity hurts your brain.
Go find some supporting evidence of your point, little man. Or admit that scientific evidence points to my conclusions.
Shoo! Git! Away with you!
And yet science doesn't back you up. Therefore your reality is what you've been programed to believe. Someday people will be cutting you some slack too.In other words you will point to past shortcomings to justify whatever you want. That's not rational.I'm afraid of what? Not getting brainwashed like you? Did granny try to turn you into a boy? Somehow I think she wouldn't agree with you.
You're afraid of being even thought of gay or feminine. But not of being left-handed.
My grandma was a product of her time. She just knew that's how she grew up. Of course she wouldn't agree with me on this subject. And my great great grandmother wouldn't agree with me going to college. And my great grandmother wouldn't agree with me marrying a black man.
But we learn, we change. Thank goodness.
No, I point to past shortcomings to cut people some slack for what they used to believe. I point to reality today to "justify" behavior that is no one else's business to curb.
Go! Come back with evidence. Your words mean nothing.
I was looking at the big picture, not the specifics of Trump vs. Clinton. Women, historically, have had to fight to get representation and a voice in the government. Even now, you would think that half of Congress would be women, based on the population.
I was looking at the big picture, not the specifics of Trump vs. Clinton. Women, historically, have had to fight to get representation and a voice in the government. Even now, you would think that half of Congress would be women, based on the population.
The population is not a rational methodology.
For most women, being a mother takes priority over their career. Many of them take extended brakes in order to foster that desire.
That is perfectly fine. Something shocking to Progressives is the FACT that men and women are different. I know, who knew!
That is also the difference in the small difference between the pay scale of men and women.
So, follow up question. Do you think women who enter politics are unnatural?
So, follow up question. Do you think women who enter politics are unnatural?
That's just foolish.
Are men who opt to be stay at home husbands "unnatural"? Of course not, they have different priorities.
I missed this little gem.
Do you know what the words "natural" and "normal" are used for?
Social control.
I'm not playing.
I missed this little gem.
Do you know what the words "natural" and "normal" are used for?
Social control.
I'm not playing.
Great, show us your reliable source and link so we can all enjoy! Thank you!
What I've found is:
nat·u·ral
[ˈnaCH(ə)rəl]
ADJECTIVE
NOUN
- existing in or caused by nature; not made or caused by humankind:
"carrots contain a natural antiseptic that fights bacteria" ·
[more]- of or in agreement with the character or makeup of, or circumstances surrounding, someone or something:
"sharks have no natural enemies"- (of a parent or child) related by blood:
"such adopted children always knew who their natural parents were"- music
(of a note) not sharped or flatted:
"the bassoon plays G-natural instead of A-flat"
ADVERB
- a person regarded as having an innate gift or talent for a particular task or activity:
"she was a natural for the sort of television work required of her"- music
a sign (♮) denoting a natural note when a previous sign or the key signature would otherwise demand a sharp or a flat.- a creamy beige color.
- a hand of cards, throw of dice, or other result that wins immediately, in particular.
nor·mal
- informal
dialect
naturally:
"keep walking—just act natural"
[ˈnôrməl]
usual · standard · ordinary · customary · conventional · habitual · accustomed · expected · wonted · typical · stock · common · everyday · regular · routine · established · set · fixed · traditional · time-honored · ordinary · average · typical · run-of-the-mill · middle-of-the-road · common · conventional · mainstream · unremarkable · unexceptional · garden-variety · a dime a dozen
antonyms: unusual
- (of a person) free from physical or mental disorders.
- technical
(of a line, ray, or other linear feature) intersecting a given line or surface at right angles.
- medicine
(of a salt solution) containing the same salt concentration as the blood.
- chemistry
dated
(of a solution) containing one gram-equivalent of solute per liter.NOUN
- geology
denoting a fault or faulting in which a relative downward movement occurred in the strata situated on the upper side of the fault plane.
###
- the usual, average, or typical state or condition:
"her temperature was above normal" · "the service will be back to normal next week"
- informal
a person who is conventional or healthy.- technical
a line at right angles to a given line or surface.
Strange, I don't see your personal definition in any of the definitions. Where do you see, "social control"?
