Analyzing A Practical Minimum Wage

[dblack]

Doubling the min wage would effect a very large number of workers, not just a small percentage. Not to mention the overall boost to the economy and the positive economic effect even for those above that mark.

Doubling the minimum wage would be catastrophic and drive a large chunk of our economy into the underground. Which is exactly why it won't happen.

How do you figure? The underground economy is driven by a lack of money, not a surplus of it. Right now you have people out there killing eachother in the streets hustling crack and heroin, stolen goods, because real jobs don't pay enough to live on.

Do you think things will be better when those jobs are illegal?

 

[Jackinthebox]

Sorry, a guy pushing a broom or running the fry machine should be walking to work or taking the bus.
$100 a month, max.

Monthly pass on my local bus system is over $300 a month and does not include off peak runs, or cab fare when the bus doesn't run on late nights, Sundays, etc.

 

[dblack]

Today, you are LUCKY if you can get someone to pack your bags in the first place.

today you are lucky to have a bank teller or phone operator. Their high wages made them worth less than minimum. Thank God the free market allows for rapid progress and the devil allows for liberal soviet intervention.

So, make it illegal for employers to hire people on public assistance. That ensures that employers won't benefit from the welfare state, and requires them to pay a decent wage to attract employees. Problem solved.

 

[Jackinthebox]

No, they should work for the price agreed upon when the take the job.

So you support illegal immigration then too I expect?

Absolutely not.

Why not? If a Mexican agrees to work for 50 cents a day. It's none of your business.

It's my business if he's not here legally.

Oh, so it's okay to regulate the free market in some places but not others? We can regulate it to ban foreign workers, but not for the benefit of domestic workers or the national economy?

 

[Jackinthebox]

Machines don't have cost increases set by fiat, don't strike, and don't call in sick to protest they paycheck they agreed to receive when they took the job. Machines don't expect to support a family on zero skills.

Not true. The techs that keep those machines running may be unionized.

 

[Jackinthebox]

Do you think things will be better when those jobs are illegal?

If your business operates on welfare subsidized labor, GTFO. And then yes, things will be better. China-Mart infiltration is coming in through the Republican party. Ironic.

 

[asterism]

Actually, he knew to make cars cheap enough that even his workers could afford one.

Nice theory, but factually incorrect. 90% of American workers make less than the min wage standard of 1950. We had more money to spend back in the heydey of American road steel.

Henry Ford was dead by then so I'm not sure why you're talking about 1950. If you have facts that refute my statement, post them if you want them to be considered.

If we were paid for our output as an employee today as compared to the standard expected of a worker in 1950, the minimum wage in 2010 would have been $28.56. (The actual minimum wage was only $7.25/hr.) $28.56 was slightly more than 90% of Americans who earned less than $27.98 per hour. Hence, 90% of American workers earn less than a minimum wage worker earned in 1950.

Read more: 90 of Americans Earn Less Than 1950 Minimum Wage Standard Minimum Wage Workers Union of America

As always, the devil is in the details. The increases in productivity don't come from cashiers, assembly line workers, and grocery baggers. They come from engineers, software developers, and systems architects.

"90% of American workers make less than the min wage standard of 1950" is a false analysis. Productivity is not uniformly distributed throughout jobs and industries. Cashiers are just as productive today as they were in 1950. The bar code scanner makes the role more productive, not additional effort or skill on the employee's part.

Why do union advocates always want to roll back 60 years of progress?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Sorry, a guy pushing a broom or running the fry machine should be paying his mom a coupla hundred a month, max.

And what if his mother is dead? Why should someone "pushing a broom" be paid any less than a pencil pusher?

And what if his mother is dead?

He'd better get a couple of roommates who make more than he does.

Why should someone "pushing a broom" be paid any less than a pencil pusher?

Skills, supply, demand.

 

[Jackinthebox]

So, make it illegal for employers to hire people on public assistance. That ensures that employers won't benefit from the welfare state, and requires them to pay a decent wage to attract employees. Problem solved.

I don't entirely disagree with that idea. But that winds up setting the stage to invite MORE illegals and does nothing to boost the economy. It's a half-assed measure. Sort of like raising the min wage by a quarter or some nonsense. It doesn't get us out of the grind.

 

[asterism]

Machines don't have cost increases set by fiat, don't strike, and don't call in sick to protest they paycheck they agreed to receive when they took the job. Machines don't expect to support a family on zero skills.

Not true. The techs that keep those machines running may be unionized.

2 techs for 20 machines vs. 300 teens scrubbing the parking lots.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Sorry, a guy pushing a broom or running the fry machine should be walking to work or taking the bus.
$100 a month, max.

Monthly pass on my local bus system is over $300 a month and does not include off peak runs, or cab fare when the bus doesn't run on late nights, Sundays, etc.

He'd better cut out some of those other expenses you made up then.

 

[Zander]

yawn......less than 2% of working people earn minimum wage....

Want to earn more? Become WORTH more.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

No, they should work for the price agreed upon when the take the job.

So you support illegal immigration then too I expect?

Absolutely not.

Why not? If a Mexican agrees to work for 50 cents a day. It's none of your business.

It's my business if he's not here legally.

Oh, so it's okay to regulate the free market in some places but not others? We can regulate it to ban foreign workers, but not for the benefit of domestic workers or the national economy?

Oh, so it's okay to regulate the free market in some places but not others?

Allowing people to violate our immigration law is not "the free market"

 

[Jackinthebox]

Why do union advocates always want to roll back 60 years of progress?

I see your point. A grocery bagger is a grocery bagger. They are not any more efficient than they were in 1950. But at the same time, their rate of pay should have kept up with the average productivity of American business. They are doing the same work, for a smaller piece of the pie.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Why do union advocates always want to roll back 60 years of progress?

I see your point. A grocery bagger is a grocery bagger. They are not any more efficient than they were in 1950. But at the same time, their rate of pay should have kept up with the average productivity of American business. They are doing the same work, for a smaller piece of the pie.

But at the same time, their rate of pay should have kept up with the average productivity of American business.

Why?

 

[Jackinthebox]

Sorry, a guy pushing a broom or running the fry machine should be paying his mom a coupla hundred a month, max.

And what if his mother is dead? Why should someone "pushing a broom" be paid any less than a pencil pusher?

And what if his mother is dead?

He'd better get a couple of roommates who make more than he does.

Why should someone "pushing a broom" be paid any less than a pencil pusher?

Skills, supply, demand.

A well respected member of my community has pushed a broom for over 30 years in a local high school. Lost some flesh in a boiler room explosion too. For all he has done in his interaction with students in trouble, his flesh sacrifice, I think he has earned his union wage and the state retirement package.

 

[Jackinthebox]

yawn......less than 2% of working people earn minimum wage....

Want to earn more? Become WORTH more.

What about the EMT coming to save your life that only earns a dollar more per hour but still has to work 80 hours a week to make the rent. Better hope you get sick at the start of their shift.

 

[Zander]

Why do union advocates always want to roll back 60 years of progress?

I see your point. A grocery bagger is a grocery bagger. They are not any more efficient than they were in 1950. But at the same time, their rate of pay should have kept up with the average productivity of American business. They are doing the same work, for a smaller piece of the pie.

Why? They're lucky to have a job at all. With new technology people can check out of a grocery store or Home Depot without anyone's help. It's a non-skilled JOB. It's not a career. It's a stepping stone, not a landing zone.

 

[Jackinthebox]

Allowing people to violate our immigration law is not "the free market"

Uh, yeah, actually it is the prime example of free market. Let's not mingle racism with economics, shall we?

 

[Jackinthebox]

Why do union advocates always want to roll back 60 years of progress?

I see your point. A grocery bagger is a grocery bagger. They are not any more efficient than they were in 1950. But at the same time, their rate of pay should have kept up with the average productivity of American business. They are doing the same work, for a smaller piece of the pie.

But at the same time, their rate of pay should have kept up with the average productivity of American business.

Why?

Because decreasing their spending power dilutes market liquidity.