Analyzing A Practical Minimum Wage

[asterism]

Automation, price increases and cutbacks in service have offset the rise in the minimum wage. In the movie theater where I live there is now 1 ticket taker instead of 3 (longer wait), no ushers at all (used to have 5), 2 people and 5 kiosks for ticket sales instead of 6 people (the empty stations are still there unused), and 1 dedicated snack bar person instead of 10 before.

All for movies and food that cost 3 times as much as before (20 years ago).

So in other words automation costs more, with less customer satisfaction.

No, automation does not cost more. The reduction of staff for non-automated jobs yields less customer satisfaction.

 

[reason10]

Minimum wage is to protect entry level workers.
It is not the ticket to a middle class life.

Nobody is supposed to raise a family on minimum wage.
Get fuckin' real.

Well, you're right. This is once again some left wing bullshit to try to buy votes from the stupid by using the Fascist approach to getting them raises they haven't earned. You hit the nail on the head.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

No, discriminate based on the value you provide to the organization.

That is very arbitrary.

It makes no difference to me if you are 16 and living at home, or 60 and living in a nursing home. It makes no difference to me if min wage is $2 or $20. If I need a person standing there to sell popcorn, I need that person standing there. Their "value" is infinite really. Without that worker, I would be out of business.

You're correct, the personal circumstances of the employee makes no difference. It's a matter of supply, demand, and whether a business can generate the value. Full service gas stations are anomalies when they used to be the standard. Most baggers used to carry groceries to cars and now they don't (except for Publix). Why? Because those jobs don't generate enough value to offset the costs.

yes the more lliberal govt makes wages artificially high with unions or minimum wage laws the faster those jobs will disappear.

 

[Jackinthebox]

Here's the problem with all that. It doesn't address whether or not the worker is WORTH $17+ an hour or not. It is not the employer's responsibility. It is the WORKER'S responsibility. If he can't do it on his own, he either has to get a roommate, maybe make his wife work (which a LOT of people do), work two jobs or learn to live a more austere lifestyle. That's the WORKER'S responsibility. No one else's.

We are talking about basic living here. Not cutting back on discretionary spending.

Work more, less college. Never get out of that hell hole.

Make his wife work? Are you kidding me here?

Roomate? Yeah, that works out well. The girl that works at my corner grocery store was just raped and beaten half to death by her roomates. One man, one woman, and the woman's boyfriend messed her up for hours, because thought she snitched on them prostituting a 12 year old girl.

 

[reason10]

In the movie theater where I live there is now 1 ticket taker instead of 3 (longer wait), no ushers at all (used to have 5), 2 people and 5 kiosks for ticket sales instead of 6 people (the empty stations are still there unused), and 1 dedicated snack bar person instead of 10 before.

All for movies and food that cost 3 times as much as before (20 years ago).

Ever wonder why? Oh, and I guess you know that the ONLY profit a movie theater makes these days is in snack bar sales. Every other cost is for buying this expensive movie.

 

[Jackinthebox]

Minimum wage is to protect entry level workers.
It is not the ticket to a middle class life.

Nobody is supposed to raise a family on minimum wage.
Get fuckin' real.

Well, you're right. This is once again some left wing bullshit to try to buy votes from the stupid by using the Fascist approach to getting them raises they haven't earned. You hit the nail on the head.

Either you can pay my labor costs through welfare subsidies, or you can make me, the business owner, pay my own labor bill. You choose, and then you tell me who the commie is.

 

[reason10]

On this page, we will itemize a sample budget for a single person in order to analyze what a fair standard would be for a minimum-wage worker. It is our position that a person working eight hours a day, five days a week, at any job, should be able to support themselves to a minimum basic standard of living. This practical wage is necessary in order to elevate the class of working poor to contributing members of society. Working for anything less than what is needed to subsist on independently, is nothing short of slavery.

All figures are based on national averages, for a Federal standard.


RENT ------------------------------$1000
BASIC UTILITIES --------------$200
ADVANCED UTILITIES ------$150
FOOD ------------------------------$300
NON-FOOD GROCERY -----$50
CLOTHING -----------------------$75
TRANSPORTATION ----------$500
HEALTHCARE -----------------$350
MISCELLANEOUS -----------$400
------------------------------------------------------
Average Basic Monthly Expenses $3,025

A full-time job at 40 hours per week is 173.2 hours per month calculating 4.33 weeks in each month. To find a reasonable minimum wage, we divide the average basic monthly expenses figure, by the number of hours worked. For the average American worker to support themselves without government assistance or by borrowing beyond their means, that worker must earn...

$17.47 per hour

Of course, that figure must be after all taxes and contributions are taken, or that anyone earning that amount must be exempt from all such garnishments and liability. A person who cannot even afford to pay their own way, cannot afford to pay taxes. Forcing them to pay taxes that will jeopardize their basic standard of living, is unsound economics and in the long run will only force other taxpayers to subsidize those workers, in turn jeopardizing their own living standard, in a perpetual cycle that we see happening today as more workers descend into deep poverty.

If $17.47 per hour seems unreasonable to you, or just downright impossible, consider a few more facts. There was a time when a grocery clerk, or a department store salesperson could actually support themselves on what they earned. That is not so today.

Using data by the U.S. BLS, the average productivity per American worker has increased 400% since 1950. One way to look at that is that it should only take one-quarter the work hours, or 11 hours per week, to afford the same standard of living as a worker in 1950 (or our standard of living should be 4 times higher). Is that the case? Obviously not. Someone is profiting, it’s just not the average American worker. -Source

Based on consumption growth since 1968, the minimum wage today would have to be $25.05 to represent the same share of the country's total consumption. Based on national income growth, the minimum wage should be $22.08. Based on personal income growth, it should be $21.16. -Source

After adjusting for inflation, minimum wage workers today are paid about 26 percent less than they were in 1974.

At the top 1 percent of the American income distribution, average incomes rose 194 percent between 1974 and 2011. Had U.S. minimum wages risen at the same pace as U.S. maximum wages, the minimum wage would now be $26.96 an hour. -Source



Here is a detailed description of how we arrived at our sample budget figures:

Read more: Analyzing a Practical Minimum Wage Minimum Wage Workers Union of America

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A PRACTICAL MINIMUM WAGE.

 

[Jackinthebox]

No, discriminate based on the value you provide to the organization.

That is very arbitrary.

It makes no difference to me if you are 16 and living at home, or 60 and living in a nursing home. It makes no difference to me if min wage is $2 or $20. If I need a person standing there to sell popcorn, I need that person standing there. Their "value" is infinite really. Without that worker, I would be out of business.

You're correct, the personal circumstances of the employee makes no difference. It's a matter of supply, demand, and whether a business can generate the value. Full service gas stations are anomalies when they used to be the standard. Most baggers used to carry groceries to cars and now they don't (except for Publix). Why? Because those jobs don't generate enough value to offset the costs.

yes the more lliberal govt makes wages artificially high with unions or minimum wage laws the faster those jobs will disappear.

The American economy was at its peak when unions were at their strongest. Coincidence? Even Henry Ford himself knew enough to pay his workers a living wage.

 

[Jackinthebox]

In the movie theater where I live there is now 1 ticket taker instead of 3 (longer wait), no ushers at all (used to have 5), 2 people and 5 kiosks for ticket sales instead of 6 people (the empty stations are still there unused), and 1 dedicated snack bar person instead of 10 before.

All for movies and food that cost 3 times as much as before (20 years ago).

Ever wonder why? Oh, and I guess you know that the ONLY profit a movie theater makes these days is in snack bar sales. Every other cost is for buying this expensive movie.

Concessions have always been the revenue generator for theaters.

In the past, projectionists were highly skilled and respected UNION workers. Comparably, they made roughly $100/hr in today's dollars, from their peak.

 

[asterism]

This is a whole lot of hoopla for just over 2% (3.3 million out of 154 million) of the labor force. The best thing to do is have an economy that is geared towards growth and prosperity. Then competition will raise the wages for the lowest paid.

That's why McDonalds offered $300 signing bonuses in North Dakota.

 

[asterism]

No, discriminate based on the value you provide to the organization.

That is very arbitrary.

It makes no difference to me if you are 16 and living at home, or 60 and living in a nursing home. It makes no difference to me if min wage is $2 or $20. If I need a person standing there to sell popcorn, I need that person standing there. Their "value" is infinite really. Without that worker, I would be out of business.

You're correct, the personal circumstances of the employee makes no difference. It's a matter of supply, demand, and whether a business can generate the value. Full service gas stations are anomalies when they used to be the standard. Most baggers used to carry groceries to cars and now they don't (except for Publix). Why? Because those jobs don't generate enough value to offset the costs.

yes the more lliberal govt makes wages artificially high with unions or minimum wage laws the faster those jobs will disappear.

The American economy was at its peak when unions were at their strongest. Coincidence? Even Henry Ford himself knew enough to pay his workers a living wage.

Actually, he knew to make cars cheap enough that even his workers could afford one.

 

[Jackinthebox]

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A PRACTICAL MINIMUM WAGE.

I am just going to have to flat out disagree there. I believe that any person who puts in a 40 hour week should earn enough to live on. Not luxuriously, but to meet a basic standard of living in American society.

 

[Jackinthebox]

This is a whole lot of hoopla for just over 2% (3.3 million out of 154 million) of the labor force. The best thing to do is have an economy that is geared towards growth and prosperity. Then competition will raise the wages for the lowest paid.

That's why McDonalds offered $300 signing bonuses in North Dakota.

You are forgetting about the many millions of other workers who are low wage, but make more than the Fed min.

Also, while McD's may be offering a $300 sign on bonus in ND, a single wide up there, if you can get one, will run you about ten times that in monthly rent.

Harvard accepts a higher percentage of applicants than the McD's corporation.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I believe that any person who puts in a 40 hour week should earn enough to live on.

too stupid!!and liberal. Thats paying a person for sitting not working in a competitive international market place.
Do you pay him to afford single family household so he doesn't have to burden himself with love and family?
Do you pay more than African family?

 

[reason10]

Either you can pay my labor costs through welfare subsidies, or you can make me, the business owner, pay my own labor bill. You choose, and then you tell me who the commie is.

WRONG. The labor costs are what the employer pays. The worker is a THIEF mooching off the taxpayers with welfare. You don't blame the employer for a greedy lazy assed employee.

 

[Jackinthebox]

Actually, he knew to make cars cheap enough that even his workers could afford one.

Nice theory, but factually incorrect. 90% of American workers make less than the min wage standard of 1950. We had more money to spend back in the heydey of American road steel.

 

[Jackinthebox]

I believe that any person who puts in a 40 hour week should earn enough to live on.

too stupid!!and liberal. Thats paying a person for sitting not working in a competitive international market place.
Do you pay him to afford single family household so he doesn't have to burden himself with love and family?
Do you pay more than African family?

Ohhh, the INTERNATIONAL market place. So you are a globalist commie who supports illegal immigration. Who is the liberal again?

 

[asterism]

No, they should work for the price agreed upon when the take the job.

So you support illegal immigration then too I expect?

Absolutely not.

 

[Jackinthebox]

Either you can pay my labor costs through welfare subsidies, or you can make me, the business owner, pay my own labor bill. You choose, and then you tell me who the commie is.

WRONG. The labor costs are what the employer pays. The worker is a THIEF mooching off the taxpayers with welfare. You don't blame the employer for a greedy lazy assed employee.

Mooching?

If it costs "x" amount of dollars to subsist, that is the cost. It makes no difference if they get if from the taxpayer or their employer.

A worker is basically equipment for my business. That equipment requires food, shelter, clothing, maintenance, etc. Now you can make ME, the business owner cover those operating expenses, or YOU can foot the bill, through welfare, to make sure that my worker shows up clothed and fed.

 

[asterism]

My dad used to hire teens to clean the parking lot. Now that's not financially feasible, the business hires a service that has a machine to do it.

And he probably pays about as much for the same service.

I used to hire kids to mow my lawn at my businesses. They did it for a lot cheaper than the Mexican landscaping company that does it now. The difference is that my insurance won't let me hire the kids anymore. Its a liability issue.

Yes, the business (no longer owned by my dad) pays about the same to a service that uses a machine.