Analyzing A Practical Minimum Wage

[asterism]

You r solution is to leave everyone living at home with their parents?

No. What are you talking about? My solution is, essentially, "live and let live". I just don't understand the authoritarian impulse to tell everyone else how to live.

I don't believe in telling anyone how to live, as long as they are living on their money; if they live on assistance, the government has every right to get into their lives.

I disagree. Public assistance should not be a synonym for slavery.

I think everyone seeking public assistance should be given a job commensurate with their skills.

That is not slavery.

But, I was referring more to lifestyles.

People on welfare that are obese for example, should be required to lose weight, or lose benefits.

Welfare recipients should be drug and alcohol tested too.

Seriously dude? No offense, but you are ignorant to a lot of reality.

My ex girlfriend for example. She was friggin LARGE. Because of a gland problem that was not her fault. She worked as much as she could as a bank teller, but also needed foodstamps. You know why? Not because she was fat. But because the rich bank paid min wage and made YOU buy her pot pies and medical care.

Why did she buy pot pies? She couldn't cook?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Where is it written that one 40 hour a week job is supposed to pay all your expenses?

It should certainly be enough to pay your basic living expenses. Especially if you are, say, trying to go to college at the same time in order to get a better job. The US is the single most overworked nation in western society.

Says who?

I worked and went to college and I didn't whine about not getting paid more than the job was worth.

And define overworked. I'm of the mind that people who only care about how much time off they get never seem to amount to much and yet still want top dollar.

People who only work 37.5 hours a week and never miss a vacation day don't ever amount to much.

It's called sacrifice and hard work. Those that practice them succeed those that want everything handed to them on a silver platter don't

 

[Skull Pilot]

Seriously guys, this minimum wage stuff really shines a light on 'stupid'. Beat on another drum.

No one gives a crap about poor people, until you're poor.

When you are poor, you up your skills set.

Like becoming an EMT perhaps? Except that the people you call to save your life, are only making min wage and are dangerously overworked. Don't expect the best treatment.

No EMT is making minimum wage

 

[Skull Pilot]

Where is it written that one 40 hour a week job is supposed to pay all your expenses?

Notice this guy makes no mention of training, education or skills set that would allow your to EARN your keep.

How does he justify a HS dropout deserving $3,025 after taxes?

The vast majority of min wage workers have a HS diploma at the very least.

Besides, where is is written that everyone has to be a rocket scientist to earn their keep? It used to be that working at a grocery store, for example, was a viable career option for a blue collar worker. Especially someone who did not have the aptitude for college booksmarts.

When I entered the job market at 14 years old back int he late 80's, my first job was at a grocery store. At the time, I did actually consider it as a career possibility. I was hired by a manager who had been there since he and my father first got a part time job at the same store when they were going to college at the Culinary Institute of America. The nation's premiere culinary arts school. My father went on to be a renowned chef and restauranteur, but his friend chose to stay on at the supermarket and make a career out of it. The same went for my aunt, who did that same, at the same store. She didn't even bother to enter into management. She was never anything more than a lead cashier, and was earning over $20/hr in UNADJUSTED dollars when I went to work there. She managed to raise a family, buy a house, and go to college just for the hell of it, all on her salary as a grocery store cashier. You will never find anything like that today.

The American worker has lost ground. Stereotypes don't make up for that shortfall.

You do realize that less than 3% of all workers earn only the federal minimum wage. Included in that 3% are service workers who also get tips.

It's not the problem you seem to think it is

 

[Skull Pilot]

Ride the fucken bus and dont spend 400 for miscellaneous bullshit and you'll save 900 bucks a month.

That was already factored in to the analysis.

Riding the bus wont run you 500 a month. And what the hell are you buying thats "miscellaneous" that costs you 400 a month? Let me guess...weed.

This isn't MY budget. These are national figures and recommended economic practices. Miscellaneous costs can be any number of things from a traffic ticket to a fender bender to a flooded out apartment to school supplies.

Where do single people pay $1,000 a month rent?

My GF is only paying $750 mortgage for a 3 BR house in a very nice suburb of a major city.

I live outside of NYC. A one bedroom in a complex runs a little over $1000 usually. The absolute cheapest dirt-hole you will find is $750. But places like that have problems such as no parking, high crime, real slum living.

A min wage worker cannot get a mortgage.

From the source:

RENT- $1,000

It is very difficult to find an accurate national average cost for a rental apartment. Local market values have a very wide range, and rental units are not uniform. According to the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) the median asking price for an unfurnished rental unit was $1,277 in the first-quarter of 2012. That amount is below what one might have to spend even for the most basic, small studio apartment in New York City, but enough to secure a large 3-bedroom apartment in a mid-western town. We must assume, however, that the minimum-wage worker will most likely be living where work is available which is more often in regions where rent is much higher. For the purposes of our analyses, we have generalized to come up with a figure that is below the national average, in order to establish a minimum standard of living. $1000 is what one might expect to pay for a one-bedroom apartment in the suburbs of a major metropolitan area.

Read more: Analyzing a Practical Minimum Wage Minimum Wage Workers Union of America

Share a 3 bedroom place with 5 or 6 guys.

I know having roommates is a novel concept and all

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

That was already factored in to the analysis.

Riding the bus wont run you 500 a month. And what the hell are you buying thats "miscellaneous" that costs you 400 a month? Let me guess...weed.

This isn't MY budget. These are national figures and recommended economic practices. Miscellaneous costs can be any number of things from a traffic ticket to a fender bender to a flooded out apartment to school supplies.

Where do single people pay $1,000 a month rent?

My GF is only paying $750 mortgage for a 3 BR house in a very nice suburb of a major city.

I live outside of NYC. A one bedroom in a complex runs a little over $1000 usually. The absolute cheapest dirt-hole you will find is $750. But places like that have problems such as no parking, high crime, real slum living.

A min wage worker cannot get a mortgage.

From the source:

RENT- $1,000

It is very difficult to find an accurate national average cost for a rental apartment. Local market values have a very wide range, and rental units are not uniform. According to the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) the median asking price for an unfurnished rental unit was $1,277 in the first-quarter of 2012. That amount is below what one might have to spend even for the most basic, small studio apartment in New York City, but enough to secure a large 3-bedroom apartment in a mid-western town. We must assume, however, that the minimum-wage worker will most likely be living where work is available which is more often in regions where rent is much higher. For the purposes of our analyses, we have generalized to come up with a figure that is below the national average, in order to establish a minimum standard of living. $1000 is what one might expect to pay for a one-bedroom apartment in the suburbs of a major metropolitan area.

Read more: Analyzing a Practical Minimum Wage Minimum Wage Workers Union of America

Share a 3 bedroom place with 5 or 6 guys.

I know having roommates is a novel concept and all

I didnt get my own apartment until I was around 22.
You have to wonder what makes kids today think they're entitled to so much,while doing so little.
Aww hell,who am I kidding. We know exactly why kids are entitle minded lazy little shits these days.

 

[Roadrunner]

Riding the bus wont run you 500 a month. And what the hell are you buying thats "miscellaneous" that costs you 400 a month? Let me guess...weed.

This isn't MY budget. These are national figures and recommended economic practices. Miscellaneous costs can be any number of things from a traffic ticket to a fender bender to a flooded out apartment to school supplies.

Where do single people pay $1,000 a month rent?

My GF is only paying $750 mortgage for a 3 BR house in a very nice suburb of a major city.

I live outside of NYC. A one bedroom in a complex runs a little over $1000 usually. The absolute cheapest dirt-hole you will find is $750. But places like that have problems such as no parking, high crime, real slum living.

A min wage worker cannot get a mortgage.

From the source:

RENT- $1,000

It is very difficult to find an accurate national average cost for a rental apartment. Local market values have a very wide range, and rental units are not uniform. According to the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) the median asking price for an unfurnished rental unit was $1,277 in the first-quarter of 2012. That amount is below what one might have to spend even for the most basic, small studio apartment in New York City, but enough to secure a large 3-bedroom apartment in a mid-western town. We must assume, however, that the minimum-wage worker will most likely be living where work is available which is more often in regions where rent is much higher. For the purposes of our analyses, we have generalized to come up with a figure that is below the national average, in order to establish a minimum standard of living. $1000 is what one might expect to pay for a one-bedroom apartment in the suburbs of a major metropolitan area.

Read more: Analyzing a Practical Minimum Wage Minimum Wage Workers Union of America

Share a 3 bedroom place with 5 or 6 guys.

I know having roommates is a novel concept and all

I didnt get my own apartment until I was around 22.
You have to wonder what makes kids today think they're entitled to so much,while doing so little.
Aww hell,who am I kidding. We know exactly why kids are entitle minded lazy little shits these days.

How old were you the last time your worked for minimum wage?

I think I was 16, and got a $.25 raise in two weeks for proving I would show up on time.

 

[SAYIT]

Not this shit again.....do you honestly think you're bringing something new to this board?
Same old tired shit from the left.

This isn't about left or right. This is about good economic policy. And I am not talking from any moral pulpit here either, saying oh poor workers, they deserve better, boo hoo. Any savvy small business owner will also support a strong minimum wage, knowing that more money in the pockets of workers, means more customers spending more money.

Yeah ... money taken from consumers and small biz owners. You forgot to factor in the inflationary impact which will push up the prices those newly-minted $17/hr min wagers (and everyone else) must pay, necessitating another round of min wage increases, which will again inflate the economy. You also rewarded the min wage earner with what you claim to be average ($1,000) monthly housing. How do those on the bottom of the wage scale deserve average anything? It sounds like another side-door effort to impose socialism on America ... using the gov't hammer (and sickle) to take from some and give to others.

 

[SAYIT]

On this page, we will itemize a sample budget for a single person in order to analyze what a fair standard would be for a minimum-wage worker. It is our position that a person working eight hours a day, five days a week, at any job, should be able to support themselves to a minimum basic standard of living. This practical wage is necessary in order to elevate the class of working poor to contributing members of society. Working for anything less than what is needed to subsist on independently, is nothing short of slavery.

All figures are based on national averages, for a Federal standard.


RENT ------------------------------$1000
BASIC UTILITIES --------------$200
ADVANCED UTILITIES ------$150
FOOD ------------------------------$300
NON-FOOD GROCERY -----$50
CLOTHING -----------------------$75
TRANSPORTATION ----------$500
HEALTHCARE -----------------$350
MISCELLANEOUS -----------$400
------------------------------------------------------
Average Basic Monthly Expenses $3,025

A full-time job at 40 hours per week is 173.2 hours per month calculating 4.33 weeks in each month. To find a reasonable minimum wage, we divide the average basic monthly expenses figure, by the number of hours worked. For the average American worker to support themselves without government assistance or by borrowing beyond their means, that worker must earn...

$17.47 per hour

Of course, that figure must be after all taxes and contributions are taken, or that anyone earning that amount must be exempt from all such garnishments and liability. A person who cannot even afford to pay their own way, cannot afford to pay taxes. Forcing them to pay taxes that will jeopardize their basic standard of living, is unsound economics and in the long run will only force other taxpayers to subsidize those workers, in turn jeopardizing their own living standard, in a perpetual cycle that we see happening today as more workers descend into deep poverty.

If $17.47 per hour seems unreasonable to you, or just downright impossible, consider a few more facts. There was a time when a grocery clerk, or a department store salesperson could actually support themselves on what they earned. That is not so today.

Using data by the U.S. BLS, the average productivity per American worker has increased 400% since 1950. One way to look at that is that it should only take one-quarter the work hours, or 11 hours per week, to afford the same standard of living as a worker in 1950 (or our standard of living should be 4 times higher). Is that the case? Obviously not. Someone is profiting, it’s just not the average American worker. -Source

Based on consumption growth since 1968, the minimum wage today would have to be $25.05 to represent the same share of the country's total consumption. Based on national income growth, the minimum wage should be $22.08. Based on personal income growth, it should be $21.16. -Source

After adjusting for inflation, minimum wage workers today are paid about 26 percent less than they were in 1974.

At the top 1 percent of the American income distribution, average incomes rose 194 percent between 1974 and 2011. Had U.S. minimum wages risen at the same pace as U.S. maximum wages, the minimum wage would now be $26.96 an hour. -Source



Here is a detailed description of how we arrived at our sample budget figures:

Read more: Analyzing a Practical Minimum Wage Minimum Wage Workers Union of America

Minimum wage is to protect entry level workers.

It is not the ticket to a middle class life.

Nobody is supposed to raise a family on minimum wage.
Get fuckin' real.

Doesn't say anything there about living middle class or raising a family. Those numbers are for a single person, living on their own, to meet basic living expenses.

Ride the fucken bus and dont spend 400 for miscellaneous bullshit and you'll save 900 bucks a month.

Share that $1,000/mo housing and save another $500/mo plus half the utils. I'll bet with a bit of imagination we can get the min wage required to get by down to say ... $7.25/hr!

 

[SAYIT]

I am single, live nicely on HALF of that each month.

Possible. But you are not the average American worker. Maybe your rent is a lot cheaper, maybe you have other advantages that we don't know about. The figures presented there are for a national average.

Nor is the min wage earner an "average American worker." There has to be entry level pay commensurate with entry level skills, and why would min wage earners get average housing? They are MIN WAGE EARNERS for crying out loud!

 

[Roadrunner]

I am single, live nicely on HALF of that each month.

Possible. But you are not the average American worker. Maybe your rent is a lot cheaper, maybe you have other advantages that we don't know about. The figures presented there are for a national average.

Nor is the min wage earner an "average American worker." There has to be entry level pay commensurate with entry level skills, and why would min wage earners get average housing? They are MIN WAGE EARNERS for crying out loud!

Shit, these entitled fuckers thing Obamacare ought to pay for flavoured anal lube.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I am single, live nicely on HALF of that each month.

Possible. But you are not the average American worker. Maybe your rent is a lot cheaper, maybe you have other advantages that we don't know about. The figures presented there are for a national average.

Nor is the min wage earner an "average American worker." There has to be entry level pay commensurate with entry level skills, and why would min wage earners get average housing? They are MIN WAGE EARNERS for crying out loud!

They're looking for that socialist utopia where they do the least amount of work possible and can still have the things they want in life....mainly drugs and booze.

 

[SAYIT]

I am single, live nicely on HALF of that each month.

Possible. But you are not the average American worker. Maybe your rent is a lot cheaper, maybe you have other advantages that we don't know about. The figures presented there are for a national average.

Nor is the min wage earner an "average American worker." There has to be entry level pay commensurate with entry level skills, and why would min wage earners get average housing? They are MIN WAGE EARNERS for crying out loud!

Shit, these entitled fuckers thing Obamacare ought to pay for flavoured anal lube.

You're scaring me.
But all kidding aside, it's not really those on the bottom who are leading this nefarious charge for higher wages and higher prices (which will seriously damage seniors on fixed incomes), it's socialists and unionists whose wage scales are based on min wage plus X:

"The Center for Union Facts analyzed collective-bargaining agreements obtained from the Department of Labor’s Office of Labor-Management Standards. The data indicate that a number of unions in the service, retail and hospitality industries peg their base-line wages to the minimum wage. . . . The two most popular formulas were setting baseline union wages as a percentage above the state or federal minimum wage or mandating a flat wage premium above the minimum wage."

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324048904578318541000422454

 

[SAYIT]

I am single, live nicely on HALF of that each month.

Possible. But you are not the average American worker. Maybe your rent is a lot cheaper, maybe you have other advantages that we don't know about. The figures presented there are for a national average.

Nor is the min wage earner an "average American worker." There has to be entry level pay commensurate with entry level skills, and why would min wage earners get average housing? They are MIN WAGE EARNERS for crying out loud!

They're looking for that socialist utopia where they do the least amount of work possible and can still have the things they want in life....mainly drugs and booze.

Workers in the "Worker's Paradise" (Soviet style) had a concise joke which described where the socialist method leads:
"we pretend to work and the gov't pretends to pay us."
People like the OP don't care how much damage they cause to America as long as they get enough to smoke their stuff.

 

[Roadrunner]

I am single, live nicely on HALF of that each month.

Possible. But you are not the average American worker. Maybe your rent is a lot cheaper, maybe you have other advantages that we don't know about. The figures presented there are for a national average.

Nor is the min wage earner an "average American worker." There has to be entry level pay commensurate with entry level skills, and why would min wage earners get average housing? They are MIN WAGE EARNERS for crying out loud!

Shit, these entitled fuckers thing Obamacare ought to pay for flavoured anal lube.

You're scaring me.
But all kidding aside, it's not really those on the bottom who are leading this nefarious charge for higher wages and higher prices (which will seriously damage seniors on fixed incomes), it's socialists and unionists whose wage scales are based on min wage plus X:

"The Center for Union Facts analyzed collective-bargaining agreements obtained from the Department of Labor’s Office of Labor-Management Standards. The data indicate that a number of unions in the service, retail and hospitality industries peg their base-line wages to the minimum wage. . . . The two most popular formulas were setting baseline union wages as a percentage above the state or federal minimum wage or mandating a flat wage premium above the minimum wage."

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324048904578318541000422454

My youngest is pushing hard for a higher wage; he is in grad school!

 

[SAYIT]

I am single, live nicely on HALF of that each month.

Possible. But you are not the average American worker. Maybe your rent is a lot cheaper, maybe you have other advantages that we don't know about. The figures presented there are for a national average.

Nor is the min wage earner an "average American worker." There has to be entry level pay commensurate with entry level skills, and why would min wage earners get average housing? They are MIN WAGE EARNERS for crying out loud!

Shit, these entitled fuckers thing Obamacare ought to pay for flavoured anal lube.

You're scaring me.
But all kidding aside, it's not really those on the bottom who are leading this nefarious charge for higher wages and higher prices (which will seriously damage seniors on fixed incomes), it's socialists and unionists whose wage scales are based on min wage plus X:

"The Center for Union Facts analyzed collective-bargaining agreements obtained from the Department of Labor’s Office of Labor-Management Standards. The data indicate that a number of unions in the service, retail and hospitality industries peg their base-line wages to the minimum wage. . . . The two most popular formulas were setting baseline union wages as a percentage above the state or federal minimum wage or mandating a flat wage premium above the minimum wage."

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324048904578318541000422454

My youngest is pushing hard for a higher wage; he is in grad school!

That is the old-fashioned way to get ahead: Hard work and sacrifice. The OP seems to believe no one should have to bother with either.

 

[Iceweasel]

Right. That's the insidious angle of the conservative point of view on welfare that I find utterly repugnant. It's this double edged sword where liberals promote state dependency, and conservatives jump on it as an excuse to subjugate those in need. You all suck.

How smug of you. How do conservatives subjugate those in need? Can you pop the pacifier out of your yap long enough to explain?

 

[dblack]

Right. That's the insidious angle of the conservative point of view on welfare that I find utterly repugnant. It's this double edged sword where liberals promote state dependency, and conservatives jump on it as an excuse to subjugate those in need. You all suck.

How smug of you. How do conservatives subjugate those in need? Can you pop the pacifier out of your yap long enough to explain?

Pacifier? What??

 

[Iceweasel]

Pacifier? What??

 

[dblack]

Pacifier? What??

Heh.. ok. It was just an insult. I thought you alluding to something related to the argument.

Anyway, the dynamic I've seen is that liberals encourage state dependency, and then conservatives use it as an excuse to control those on the dole. The push for drug testing welfare recipients is a good example. And you see it in the general disdain many conservatives have for those on public assistance.