Analyzing A Practical Minimum Wage

[Roadrunner]

I don't believe in telling anyone how to live, as long as they are living on their money; if they live on assistance, the government has every right to get into their lives.

Lets start with killing welfare labor, before we go shredding the Constitution.

What the Hell is welfare labor, some shit you made up?

 

[dblack]

How is that ironic?

As I've said repeatedly, businesses shouldn't be able to hire people who are on welfare. But if someone wants to work for less than your idea of the 'minimum', it's really none of your fucking business.

You r solution is to leave everyone living at home with their parents?

No. What are you talking about? My solution is, essentially, "live and let live". I just don't understand the authoritarian impulse to tell everyone else how to live.

I don't believe in telling anyone how to live, as long as they are living on their money; if they live on assistance, the government has every right to get into their lives.

I disagree. Public assistance should not be a synonym for slavery.

I think everyone seeking public assistance should be given a job commensurate with their skills.

That is not slavery.

But, I was referring more to lifestyles.

People on welfare that are obese for example, should be required to lose weight, or lose benefits.

Welfare recipients should be drug and alcohol tested too.

Right. That's the insidious angle of the conservative point of view on welfare that I find utterly repugnant. It's this double edged sword where liberals promote state dependency, and conservatives jump on it as an excuse to subjugate those in need. You all suck.

 

[dblack]

No. What are you talking about? My solution is, essentially, "live and let live". I just don't understand the authoritarian impulse to tell everyone else how to live.

I have very libertarian views. But I am not an anarchist. I do believe that the govt has the right to mandate policies which will be economically constructive to our society.

A min wage worker should be paid enough to live on. That is not at all unreasonable. No more unreasonable than saying that slave should be paid for their work, and not treated to some grits.

No, you do not have "very libertarian views". What you refuse to acknowledge, is that you're saying that people who can't earn your idea of the minimum shouldn't be allowed to work. That's a real result of the policies you advocate. And it's dead wrong.

Not being allowed to work because you are on the dole is about the stupidest thing I ever heard of.

You've found a new definition of 'stupid'. Congratulations!

 

[Jackinthebox]

yes, and liberals don't just want to set the minimum wage they want union wages too plus a soviet level of interference in all aspects of the economy. Obamacare is just one huge example. Liberals are too stupid to know they are communist dupes.

Now you're lumping a whole bunch of crap together. I am issue driven, not a partisan.

Union wages and benefits are good for the middle class. Good for economic vitality.

Obamacare? I hate it. Friggin commie crap. But if it weren't for the deregulation of medical and insurance companies, costs would be normals, and we would not need to bleed the people with this crap fake socio policy.

 

[dblack]

No. What are you talking about? My solution is, essentially, "live and let live". I just don't understand the authoritarian impulse to tell everyone else how to live.

I have very libertarian views. But I am not an anarchist. I do believe that the govt has the right to mandate policies which will be economically constructive to our society.

A min wage worker should be paid enough to live on. That is not at all unreasonable. No more unreasonable than saying that slave should be paid for their work, and not treated to some grits.

No, you do not have "very libertarian views". What you refuse to acknowledge, is that you're saying that people who can't earn your idea of the minimum shouldn't be allowed to work. That's a real result of the policies you advocate. And it's dead wrong.

Not being allowed to work because you are on the dole is about the stupidest thing I ever heard of.

You've found a new definition of 'stupid'. Congratulations!

This is exactly why we're so screwed. All of US politics is dominated by the phony left/right split, and the ugly truth is that both sides are equally idiotic and amoral.

 

[Roadrunner]

You r solution is to leave everyone living at home with their parents?

No. What are you talking about? My solution is, essentially, "live and let live". I just don't understand the authoritarian impulse to tell everyone else how to live.

I don't believe in telling anyone how to live, as long as they are living on their money; if they live on assistance, the government has every right to get into their lives.

I disagree. Public assistance should not be a synonym for slavery.

I think everyone seeking public assistance should be given a job commensurate with their skills.

That is not slavery.

But, I was referring more to lifestyles.

People on welfare that are obese for example, should be required to lose weight, or lose benefits.

Welfare recipients should be drug and alcohol tested too.

Right. That's the insidious angle of the conservative point of view on welfare that I find utterly repugnant. It's this double edged sword where liberals promote state dependency, and conservatives jump on it as an excuse to subjugate those in need. You all suck.

Giving a person the dignity of a job rather than a handout is repugnant?

FDR didn't think so, he put the jobless in camps, and made them work for assistance.

It taught work skills and did not destroy pride.

 

[asterism]

Why do union advocates always want to roll back 60 years of progress?

I see your point. A grocery bagger is a grocery bagger. They are not any more efficient than they were in 1950. But at the same time, their rate of pay should have kept up with the average productivity of American business. They are doing the same work, for a smaller piece of the pie.

Why? If they aren't more productive why should the job pay more? The job should pay what customers will accept.

Do you honestly believe that the top 1% are that much more productive now than int he past?

Someone is being more productive and not being paid for it.

Since "the top 1%" isn't a static group, yes, they are more productive now than in the past. The ones who succeed invest much smarter, take bigger risks, and are perpetually under threat from two kids in a garage. The upper middle class is certainly more productive. That used to be layers and layers of middle management but now it's mostly small business owners. Again, taking bigger risks and under the same threat of being replaced by someone with a better idea.

Low-skilled workers (also not a static group) are being paid less because of their global competitors.

 

[dblack]

No. What are you talking about? My solution is, essentially, "live and let live". I just don't understand the authoritarian impulse to tell everyone else how to live.

I don't believe in telling anyone how to live, as long as they are living on their money; if they live on assistance, the government has every right to get into their lives.

I disagree. Public assistance should not be a synonym for slavery.

I think everyone seeking public assistance should be given a job commensurate with their skills.

That is not slavery.

But, I was referring more to lifestyles.

People on welfare that are obese for example, should be required to lose weight, or lose benefits.

Welfare recipients should be drug and alcohol tested too.

Right. That's the insidious angle of the conservative point of view on welfare that I find utterly repugnant. It's this double edged sword where liberals promote state dependency, and conservatives jump on it as an excuse to subjugate those in need. You all suck.

Giving a person the dignity of a job rather than a handout is repugnant?

No, giving a person the dignity of a job AND a handout is repugnant.

FDR didn't think so, he put the jobless in camps, and made them work for assistance.

It taught work skills and did not destroy pride.

FDR was a fascist.

 

[Jackinthebox]

If you are a trained EMT, and cannot find work in the GOUSA, you must have some serious character flaws, or a long rap sheet, or can't pass a piss test.

The sorriest son of a bitch I ever had in my GED classes in now an EMT making $30 an hour AND paid insurance.

Come to NY, be an EMT, and tell us all how you make out.

 

[Jackinthebox]

No. What are you talking about? My solution is, essentially, "live and let live". I just don't understand the authoritarian impulse to tell everyone else how to live.

I have very libertarian views. But I am not an anarchist. I do believe that the govt has the right to mandate policies which will be economically constructive to our society.

A min wage worker should be paid enough to live on. That is not at all unreasonable. No more unreasonable than saying that slave should be paid for their work, and not treated to some grits.

No, you do not have "very libertarian views". What you refuse to acknowledge, is that you're saying that people who can't earn your idea of the minimum shouldn't be allowed to work. That's a real result of the policies you advocate. And it's dead wrong.

I believe that everyone should be allowed to work, and that they should be paid a honest day's wage for an honest day of labor.

 

[dblack]

No. What are you talking about? My solution is, essentially, "live and let live". I just don't understand the authoritarian impulse to tell everyone else how to live.

I have very libertarian views. But I am not an anarchist. I do believe that the govt has the right to mandate policies which will be economically constructive to our society.

A min wage worker should be paid enough to live on. That is not at all unreasonable. No more unreasonable than saying that slave should be paid for their work, and not treated to some grits.

No, you do not have "very libertarian views". What you refuse to acknowledge, is that you're saying that people who can't earn your idea of the minimum shouldn't be allowed to work. That's a real result of the policies you advocate. And it's dead wrong.

I believe that everyone should be allowed to work, and that they should be paid a honest day's wage for an honest day of labor.

No you don't. You think if they can't convince someone to pay them your idea of a minimal wage, they shouldn't be allowed to work. Don't hide from what you're really advocating.

 

[Jackinthebox]

How is that ironic?

As I've said repeatedly, businesses shouldn't be able to hire people who are on welfare. But if someone wants to work for less than your idea of the 'minimum', it's really none of your fucking business.

You r solution is to leave everyone living at home with their parents?

No. What are you talking about? My solution is, essentially, "live and let live". I just don't understand the authoritarian impulse to tell everyone else how to live.

I don't believe in telling anyone how to live, as long as they are living on their money; if they live on assistance, the government has every right to get into their lives.

I disagree. Public assistance should not be a synonym for slavery.

I think everyone seeking public assistance should be given a job commensurate with their skills.

That is not slavery.

But, I was referring more to lifestyles.

People on welfare that are obese for example, should be required to lose weight, or lose benefits.

Welfare recipients should be drug and alcohol tested too.

Seriously dude? No offense, but you are ignorant to a lot of reality.

My ex girlfriend for example. She was friggin LARGE. Because of a gland problem that was not her fault. She worked as much as she could as a bank teller, but also needed foodstamps. You know why? Not because she was fat. But because the rich bank paid min wage and made YOU buy her pot pies and medical care.

 

[Jackinthebox]

I shall return. I have a BJ to get from an out of work 18 year old old. lol

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Sorry, a guy pushing a broom or running the fry machine should be paying his mom a coupla hundred a month, max.

And what if his mother is dead? Why should someone "pushing a broom" be paid any less than a pencil pusher?

And what if his mother is dead?

He'd better get a couple of roommates who make more than he does.

Why should someone "pushing a broom" be paid any less than a pencil pusher?

Skills, supply, demand.

A well respected member of my community has pushed a broom for over 30 years in a local high school. Lost some flesh in a boiler room explosion too. For all he has done in his interaction with students in trouble, his flesh sacrifice, I think he has earned his union wage and the state retirement package.

A well respected member of my community has pushed a broom for over 30 years in a local high school.

Good for him!

Lost some flesh in a boiler room explosion too.

Bummer.

I think he has earned his union wage and the state retirement package

It's no wonder our states and schools are broke.

 

[dblack]

I shall return. I have a BJ to get from an out of work 18 year old old. lol

That sums up the authoritarian POV succinctly.

 

[asterism]

yawn......less than 2% of working people earn minimum wage....

Want to earn more? Become WORTH more.

What about the EMT coming to save your life that only earns a dollar more per hour but still has to work 80 hours a week to make the rent. Better hope you get sick at the start of their shift.

Supply and demand. EMTs make $28 per hour starting wage here (with generous benefits), maybe they should do what I did, move to an area that had better jobs for me (then I started my own company and moved back).

First of all, you show me where EMT's are making that. Not advertised, but hiring and paying that. I call bullshit, because I went and got my EMT, along with my CDL and BOTH were a waste of time and money.

As far as moving goes, shuffling the deck does not solve the problems in our economy.

https://baycare.taleo.net/careersection/external/jobdetail.ftl?job=148837&src=JB-10160

The pay is not disclosed at the link. I know it pays that much because my neighbor's son just got hired and he makes $28 per hour. As far as moving goes, that's how people deal with supply and demand. If EMTs make minimum wage where you live then there is a glut of EMTs in your area. If you want to make more, move to areas where demand for EMTs is higher. That's not "shuffling the deck," it's adjusting to the market conditions in a much more efficient way than simply declaring by force of government that jobs "should" pay higher.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Allowing people to violate our immigration law is not "the free market"

Uh, yeah, actually it is the prime example of free market. Let's not mingle racism with economics, shall we?

Uh, no, breaking the law is not a prime example.

Let's not mingle racism with economics, shall we?

Now wanting the law to be enforced is racism? LOL!
Talk about the soft bigotry of low expectations.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I shall return. I have a BJ to get from an out of work 18 year old old. lol

What's his name?

 

[asterism]

yes, and liberals don't just want to set the minimum wage they want union wages too plus a soviet level of interference in all aspects of the economy. Obamacare is just one huge example. Liberals are too stupid to know they are communist dupes.

Now you're lumping a whole bunch of crap together. I am issue driven, not a partisan.

Union wages and benefits are good for the middle class. Good for economic vitality.

Obamacare? I hate it. Friggin commie crap. But if it weren't for the deregulation of medical and insurance companies, costs would be normals, and we would not need to bleed the people with this crap fake socio policy.

When were medical and insurance companies deregulated? Be specific, cite some actual legislation that accomplished this.

 

[dblack]

yes, and liberals don't just want to set the minimum wage they want union wages too plus a soviet level of interference in all aspects of the economy. Obamacare is just one huge example. Liberals are too stupid to know they are communist dupes.

Now you're lumping a whole bunch of crap together. I am issue driven, not a partisan.

Union wages and benefits are good for the middle class. Good for economic vitality.

Obamacare? I hate it. Friggin commie crap. But if it weren't for the deregulation of medical and insurance companies, costs would be normals, and we would not need to bleed the people with this crap fake socio policy.

When were medical and insurance companies deregulated? Be specific, cite some actual legislation that accomplished this.

"Deregulation" never is. It's always "Re-regulation" with different winners and losers.