Another Double shooting in Britain....they like to shoot two people in one go over there....

[2aguy]

And 1,500,000 million Americans who save lives and stop violent criminal attack and the other 356,991,876 million people ho do not use guns to commit murder would disagree with you

There are not 1.5 million DGU. You gun nuts don't have that kind of restraint. there's no way you pull your Penis substitutes out 1,500,000 and only manage to kill 200 bad guys.

To lie about the average, normal gun owner...just demonstrates that you don't care about the truth in the discussion of gun ownership in America, and again takes us back to a deep seated paranoia that fits in with your dangerous sexual fixation and need to lie in general conversation....

Wow, guy, don't try to do psychology, you suck at it.

again, an average gun owner was in my office many times, until last week when he decided to turn his suburban street into a shooting gallery because his wife spent too much on shoes.

Two things we learn from your post.....one..you still have a deeply disturbing sexual fixation on guns....

Two...you didn't read the article from Australia that details how domestic abuse can easily be missed by those surrounding the abuser and the abused.....and that is normal people....you are really clueless so it is no wonder you missed it...

 

[JoeB131]

Two things we learn from your post.....one..you still have a deeply disturbing sexual fixation on guns....

Two...you didn't read the article from Australia that details how domestic abuse can easily be missed by those surrounding the abuser and the abused.....and that is normal people....you are really clueless so it is no wonder you missed it...

No, the two things we learned.

1) You have a tiny dick
2) YOu post bullshit articles to bolster your position that guns aren't the problem.

There's no evidence that this guy was a domestic abuser. He was just a guy who had a really bad day. Sadly, he also had 26 guns because the gun industry told him having more guns would make up for his 'Shortcomings'.

 

[2aguy]

Two things we learn from your post.....one..you still have a deeply disturbing sexual fixation on guns....

Two...you didn't read the article from Australia that details how domestic abuse can easily be missed by those surrounding the abuser and the abused.....and that is normal people....you are really clueless so it is no wonder you missed it...

No, the two things we learned.

1) You have a tiny dick
2) YOu post bullshit articles to bolster your position that guns aren't the problem.

There's no evidence that this guy was a domestic abuser. He was just a guy who had a really bad day. Sadly, he also had 26 guns because the gun industry told him having more guns would make up for his 'Shortcomings'.

Joe...you are projecting again...your small penis....some women like them that tiny...your rubber doll...doesn't care.......

Joe.....the problem with domestic abuse is that too often the abuse is hidden and unknown by friends and family...moron.....

90% of gun mirderers have a long history of violent behavior...normal people do not hit or shoot their wives.....

 

[JoeB131]

Joe.....the problem with domestic abuse is that too often the abuse is hidden and unknown by friends and family...moron.....

90% of gun mirderers have a long history of violent behavior...normal people do not hit or shoot their wives.....

Yeah, when one of you gun nuts actually ACTS on his violent fantasies, you throw him out of the club, we get that.

The idea is to make sure you guys can't act on your fantasies.

But here's the thing. if only "criminals' do domestic violence, you should be in favor of strict background checks, licensing, etc. to keep the bad people from having guns...

YOu know, instead of having so many loopholes in the system where they can get guns really easily.

Of course, if you did that, gun sales would drop, and when you have an industry based on marketing to the fears of the Tiny Dicks of the world, that wouldn't work.

 

[2aguy]

Joe.....the problem with domestic abuse is that too often the abuse is hidden and unknown by friends and family...moron.....

90% of gun mirderers have a long history of violent behavior...normal people do not hit or shoot their wives.....

Yeah, when one of you gun nuts actually ACTS on his violent fantasies, you throw him out of the club, we get that.

The idea is to make sure you guys can't act on your fantasies.

But here's the thing. if only "criminals' do domestic violence, you should be in favor of strict background checks, licensing, etc. to keep the bad people from having guns...

YOu know, instead of having so many loopholes in the system where they can get guns really easily.

Of course, if you did that, gun sales would drop, and when you have an industry based on marketing to the fears of the Tiny Dicks of the world, that wouldn't work.

Yeah...and how well do those work......the police officer who shot people in Maryland last week turned in his guns because of a restraining order...didn't stop him.....

Criminals ignore all of those laws you want.....the actual answer.....arrest people who use guns for crime...arrest felons caught with guns.....leave people who don't commit crimes with guns alone.....that also has the advantage of freeing up cops to arrest the actual gun criminals.

There are no loopholes...it is called criminals breaking the very laws you want.....you have to get a background check at gun stores......criminals use someone with a clean record to buy the gun...not a loophole, it is called a criminal being a criminal.....

And no...universal background checks won't stop that either...they can just use the same guy with a clean record for the private sale.....

Your ideas are stupid...

Had the wife reported the husband...had she divorced the husband.....he would not have been her problem........


Guns are not the issue..please explain that to the woman murdered with the 9 dollar Walmart camping axe.....her husband didn't need a background check for that...or the guy who stabbed his wife to death....as she waited for assholes like you to grant her permission to buy a gun in New Jersey..he didn't need a background check for that either....she needed a background check for the gun they wouldn't let her have as they decided if she could own one....moron.

 

[JoeB131]

Yeah...and how well do those work......the police officer who shot people in Maryland last week turned in his guns because of a restraining order...didn't stop him.....

Criminals ignore all of those laws you want.....the actual answer.....arrest people who use guns for crime...arrest felons caught with guns.....leave people who don't commit crimes with guns alone.....that also has the advantage of freeing up cops to arrest the actual gun criminals.

Um, yeah. Most gun criminals aren't criminals until they've used their guns they never should have had to start with... so, um, no.

 

[JoeB131]

Guns are not the issue..please explain that to the woman murdered with the 9 dollar Walmart camping axe.....her husband didn't need a background check for that...or the guy who stabbed his wife to death....as she waited for assholes like you to grant her permission to buy a gun in New Jersey..he didn't need a background check for that either....she needed a background check for the gun they wouldn't let her have as they decided if she could own one....moron.

Gun in the house - 43 times more likely to kill a family member than a bad guy.

And frankly, there are more than enough stories about the ladies who get shot with their own little pink guns when their batterers take them from them.

Like this lady.

Don't Ask The NRA About Women Shot With Their Own Guns - National Gun Victims Action Council

Of course the problem is when women do arm themselves things often go horribly wrong. In October, police believe a woman in Warren County, Mississippi was killed with her own gun at her residence. Also in October, a woman was shot with her own gun at her residence near Louisville, said a Bullitt County Sheriff’s detective. And then there was professional boxer Christy Salters Martin who was also shot with her own gun. Salters says the idea of women protecting themselves is a myth because, “Too many times, their male counterpart or spouse will be able to overpower them and take that gun away.” Martin was stabbed and shot by her husband after she attempted to leave him.

This is why the NRA doesn't want gun studies done by the CDC. THey wouldn't like the news.

 

[2aguy]

Guns are not the issue..please explain that to the woman murdered with the 9 dollar Walmart camping axe.....her husband didn't need a background check for that...or the guy who stabbed his wife to death....as she waited for assholes like you to grant her permission to buy a gun in New Jersey..he didn't need a background check for that either....she needed a background check for the gun they wouldn't let her have as they decided if she could own one....moron.

Gun in the house - 43 times more likely to kill a family member than a bad guy.

And frankly, there are more than enough stories about the ladies who get shot with their own little pink guns when their batterers take them from them.

Like this lady.

Don't Ask The NRA About Women Shot With Their Own Guns - National Gun Victims Action Council

Of course the problem is when women do arm themselves things often go horribly wrong. In October, police believe a woman in Warren County, Mississippi was killed with her own gun at her residence. Also in October, a woman was shot with her own gun at her residence near Louisville, said a Bullitt County Sheriff’s detective. And then there was professional boxer Christy Salters Martin who was also shot with her own gun. Salters says the idea of women protecting themselves is a myth because, “Too many times, their male counterpart or spouse will be able to overpower them and take that gun away.” Martin was stabbed and shot by her husband after she attempted to leave him.

This is why the NRA doesn't want gun studies done by the CDC. THey wouldn't like the news.

You have been shown over and over that kellerman retracted that number......and even the lower number he used was shown to be from bad methods...he only looked at homes with deep pathologies of drug use, alcholohism and crime .....

Can Owning a Gun Really Triple the Owner's Chances of being Murdered?

Abstract
Using a case-control design comparing homicide victims with matched nonvictims, Kellermann et al. (1993) concluded that keeping a gun in one's home increased the risk of being murdered by a factor of 2.7. The authors' underlying assumption was that a significant elevation in homicide risk derived from the risk of being murdered with a gun kept in the victim's home. This article shows that homicides are rarely committed with guns belonging to members of the victim's home and that such killings could be responsible for no more than a 2.4% increase in the relative risk of being murdered.

Guns in one's own home have little to do with homicide risk.

Scholars need to attend more closely to the mechanisms by which an alleged causal effect is supposed to operate and to consider their plausibility before concluding that an association reflects a causal effect.

 

[2aguy]

Guns are not the issue..please explain that to the woman murdered with the 9 dollar Walmart camping axe.....her husband didn't need a background check for that...or the guy who stabbed his wife to death....as she waited for assholes like you to grant her permission to buy a gun in New Jersey..he didn't need a background check for that either....she needed a background check for the gun they wouldn't let her have as they decided if she could own one....moron.

Gun in the house - 43 times more likely to kill a family member than a bad guy.

And frankly, there are more than enough stories about the ladies who get shot with their own little pink guns when their batterers take them from them.

Like this lady.

Don't Ask The NRA About Women Shot With Their Own Guns - National Gun Victims Action Council

Of course the problem is when women do arm themselves things often go horribly wrong. In October, police believe a woman in Warren County, Mississippi was killed with her own gun at her residence. Also in October, a woman was shot with her own gun at her residence near Louisville, said a Bullitt County Sheriff’s detective. And then there was professional boxer Christy Salters Martin who was also shot with her own gun. Salters says the idea of women protecting themselves is a myth because, “Too many times, their male counterpart or spouse will be able to overpower them and take that gun away.” Martin was stabbed and shot by her husband after she attempted to leave him.

This is why the NRA doesn't want gun studies done by the CDC. THey wouldn't like the news.

Wow....you are using Christy Salters martin......you were specifically shown that the gun had nothing to do with her attack.....it was her choices....and the fact, that her husband had a long history of violent assault against her....

Her husband told her the entire time they were married if she tried to leave him he would kill her.

The night she actually told him she was leaving him...she not only stayed in the house, she went to sleep. And by going to her bedroom she sepearated herself from her gun.

He went in and beat the crap out of her.....he stabbed her after the beating and then used the gun to shoot her....after she was helpless on the floor.....and he didn't end up killing her with the beating, the knife or the gun...though he tried.......she then escaped when he went into antoher room.....

That you still use this as an example shows that you are a liar.....

 

[JoeB131]

You have been shown over and over that kellerman retracted that number.....

No, I've never been shown that once.

I've seen a lot of the typical whining bout Kellerman... like

"You don't count all the times my gun made me feel safe"

and

"Well, most of those were suicides"

and the usual crap.

But here's a simple enough solution. Let the CDC study gun violence again.

If Kellerman's numbers were wrong, a new study will confirm that.

 

[2aguy]

Guns are not the issue..please explain that to the woman murdered with the 9 dollar Walmart camping axe.....her husband didn't need a background check for that...or the guy who stabbed his wife to death....as she waited for assholes like you to grant her permission to buy a gun in New Jersey..he didn't need a background check for that either....she needed a background check for the gun they wouldn't let her have as they decided if she could own one....moron.

Gun in the house - 43 times more likely to kill a family member than a bad guy.

And frankly, there are more than enough stories about the ladies who get shot with their own little pink guns when their batterers take them from them.

Like this lady.

Don't Ask The NRA About Women Shot With Their Own Guns - National Gun Victims Action Council

Of course the problem is when women do arm themselves things often go horribly wrong. In October, police believe a woman in Warren County, Mississippi was killed with her own gun at her residence. Also in October, a woman was shot with her own gun at her residence near Louisville, said a Bullitt County Sheriff’s detective. And then there was professional boxer Christy Salters Martin who was also shot with her own gun. Salters says the idea of women protecting themselves is a myth because, “Too many times, their male counterpart or spouse will be able to overpower them and take that gun away.” Martin was stabbed and shot by her husband after she attempted to leave him.

This is why the NRA doesn't want gun studies done by the CDC. THey wouldn't like the news.

And I have shown you this about Christy Salters Martin over and over....and you still use the story and that makes you a liar....


The gun had nothing to do with the attack...he had repeatedly stabbed her and beaten the crap out of her and then...after stabbing her and her barely concious on the floor, he then shot her....and failed to kill her, then she escaped. you lying moron.

Christy Martin claws back after being stabbed, shot, left to die - USATODAY.com

He had been telling me for 20 years he would kill me if I ever left him," Martin says. "There were threats of not just killing me but blackmailing me. I told him before I married him that I had had a relationship with Sherry. I was trying to be honest and do the right thing, and he … held that over my head. He said, 'The boxing world would crucify you'. ... He had convinced me the boxing world hated me, my family hated me and he was all I had. So I had to stay there."

The night of the attack, her husband came in her room, said he had something to show her and made a motion to reach behind his back. "I leaned over and saw a knife sticking out of his shorts. I said, 'What are you going to do, kill me?' as he had been promising for 20 years. Then it was just like boom!

"All of a sudden he stabbed me three times in my side. I didn't realize I'd been stabbed. I thought he just hit me. Then he stabbed me once in my breast. That made me bleed a lot. I think he was going for my heart."

When Martin tried to kick him away with her left leg after being stabbed, "he cut my calf almost completely from my leg. … We ended up on the ground. I tried to fight him and felt a gun in his pocket, and I realized it was my pink 9-millimeter (Glock).

"He bashed my head into the floor and into the dresser and we're going back and forth. I was trying to get away from him, but I was never able to get the gun out of his pocket."

For one hour she said, Jim attacked and tortured her, leaving her to die on the floor as she begged for help. She knew her lung was punctured; she could hear the gurgling sound.

"I think he was just waiting to see if I was going to die.

Finally he came back in, stood at my feet, pointed the gun at me and shot me. Missed my heart by 4 inches.

The crazy thing is the bullet went through the same hole as the stab wound in my breast."

 

[JoeB131]

Wow....you are using Christy Salters martin......you were specifically shown that the gun had nothing to do with her attack.....it was her choices....and the fact, that her husband had a long history of violent assault against her....

And a gun was useless to stop that. Thank you for confirming my point.

 

[JoeB131]

And I have shown you this about Christy Salters Martin over and over....and you still use the story and that makes you a liar....

No, it makes me someone who realizes a little pink gun doesn't do her a bit of good.

 

[Rustic]

Wow.....not surprising you know a nut job......do you guys have a club or something....

The point was, he wasn't a "nutjob" (I suspect you own more guns than he did.) He wasn't a criminal. He worked for a major corporation. and the availability of a gun in his home made a simple domestic battery into a near tragedy.

Yes......joe.....Britain is more violent than the U.S.........just ask Politifact, a left wing, anti gun site...

a social media post? Really? Weak Tea, Dick Tiny.

New/more laws will do nothing but make the numbers worse... Buy more guns and ammo.

 

[2aguy]

You have been shown over and over that kellerman retracted that number.....

No, I've never been shown that once.

I've seen a lot of the typical whining bout Kellerman... like

"You don't count all the times my gun made me feel safe"

and

"Well, most of those were suicides"

and the usual crap.

But here's a simple enough solution. Let the CDC study gun violence again.

If Kellerman's numbers were wrong, a new study will confirm that.

The CDC never stopped studying guns moron...they never lost funding either......they were told to not lie about guns.....moron.

And lying about kellerman is another thing you do......

 

[2aguy]

You have been shown over and over that kellerman retracted that number.....

No, I've never been shown that once.

I've seen a lot of the typical whining bout Kellerman... like

"You don't count all the times my gun made me feel safe"

and

"Well, most of those were suicides"

and the usual crap.

But here's a simple enough solution. Let the CDC study gun violence again.

If Kellerman's numbers were wrong, a new study will confirm that.

Yes...the old clinton lie...."I have never been shown that once..." exactly, you have been shown it over and over everytime just about that you use kellerman as a source.....

And again...

Public Health and Gun Control: A Review

In 1993, in his landmark and much cited NEJM article (and the research, again, heavily funded by the CDC), Dr. Kellermann attempted to show again that guns in the home are a greater risk to the victims than to the assailants.4

Despite valid criticisms by reputable scholars of his previous works (including the 1986 study), Dr. Kellermann ignored the criticisms and again used the same methodology.

He also used study populations with disproportionately high rates of serious psychosocial dysfunction from three selected state counties, known to be unrepresentative of the general U.S. population.

For example,

53 percent of the case subjects had a history of a household member being arrested,

31 percent had a household history of illicit drug use,

32 percent had a household member hit or hurt in a family fight,

and 17 percent had a family member hurt so seriously in a domestic altercation that prompt medical attention was required.

Moreover, both the case studies and control groups in this analysis had a very high incidence of financial instability.

In fact, in this study, gun ownership, the supposedly high risk factor for homicide was not one of the most strongly associated factors for being murdered.

Drinking, illicit drugs, living alone, history of family violence, living in a rented home were all greater individual risk factors for being murdered than a gun in the home.

One must conclude there is no basis to apply the conclusions of this study to the general population.

All of these are factors that, as Dr. Suter pointed out, "would expectedly be associated with higher rates of violence and homicide."5

It goes without saying, the results of such a study on gun homicides, selecting this sort of unrepresentative population sample, nullify the authors' generalizations, and their preordained, conclusions can not be extrapolated to the general population.

Moreover, although the 1993 New England Journal of Medicine study purported to show that the homicide victims were killed with a gun ordinarily kept in the home, the fact is that as Kates and associates point out 71.1 percent of the victims were killed by assailants who did not live in the victims¹ household using guns presumably not kept in that home.6

While Kellermann and associates began with 444 cases of homicides in the home, cases were dropped from the study for a variety of reasons, and in the end, only 316 matched pairs were used in the final analysis, representing only 71.2 percent of the original 444 homicide cases.

This reduction increased tremendously the chance for sampling bias. Analysis of why 28.8 percent of the cases were dropped would have helped ascertain if the study was compromised by the existence of such biases, but Dr. Kellermann, in an unprecedented move, refused to release his data and make it available for other researchers to analyze.

Likewise, Prof. Gary Kleck of Florida State University has written me that knowledge about what guns were kept in the home is essential, but this data in his study was never released by Dr. Kellermann: "The most likely bit of data that he would want to withhold is information as to whether the gun used in the gun homicides was kept in the home of the victim."*

As Kates and associates point out, "The validity of the NEJM 1993 study¹s conclusions depend on the control group matching the homicide cases in every way (except, of course, for the occurrence of the homicide)."6

However, in this study, the controls collected did not match the cases in many ways (i.e., for example, in the amount of substance abuse, single parent versus two parent homes, etc.) contributing to further untoward effects, and decreasing the inference that can legitimately be drawn from the data of this study. Be that as it may, "The conclusion that gun ownership is a risk factor for homicide derives from the finding of a gun in 45.4 percent of the homicide case households, but in only 35.8 percent of the control household. Whether that finding is accurate, however, depends on the truthfulness of control group interviewees in admitting the presence of a gun or guns in the home."6

 

[2aguy]

You have been shown over and over that kellerman retracted that number.....

No, I've never been shown that once.

I've seen a lot of the typical whining bout Kellerman... like

"You don't count all the times my gun made me feel safe"

and

"Well, most of those were suicides"

and the usual crap.

But here's a simple enough solution. Let the CDC study gun violence again.

If Kellerman's numbers were wrong, a new study will confirm that.

The only source you have is a guy who cooked the numbers to lie about guns in the home.....all you anti gun morons have are lies and emotion...the truth, the facts, the research, the statistics and reality show there is not one thing youare right about where guns are concerned.

 

[JoeB131]

The CDC never stopped studying guns moron...they never lost funding either......they were told to not lie about guns.....moron.

And lying about kellerman is another thing you do......

Quietly, Congress extends a ban on CDC research on gun violence

Funny thing about Science, guy. It remains true whether or not you believe it.

 

[2aguy]

You have been shown over and over that kellerman retracted that number.....

No, I've never been shown that once.

I've seen a lot of the typical whining bout Kellerman... like

"You don't count all the times my gun made me feel safe"

and

"Well, most of those were suicides"

and the usual crap.

But here's a simple enough solution. Let the CDC study gun violence again.

If Kellerman's numbers were wrong, a new study will confirm that.

And the CDC.....was never stopped...

Why Congress Cut The CDC’s Gun Research Budget

Firstly, CDC was not banned from doing the research. In fact, CDC articles pertaining to firearms have held steady since the defunding, and even increased to 121 in 2013.

CDC very recently released a 16-page report that was commissioned by the city council of Wilmington, Delaware, on factors contributing to its abnormally high gun crime, and methods of prevention. The study weighed factors such as where the guns were coming from, the sex of the offenders, likeliness of committing a gun crime, and how unemployment plays a factor.

In other words it studied, the environment surrounding the crime.
This did not go over well with some in the media, who were disappointed it didn’t implicate firearms as a cause and not an effect. Kate Masters of VICE.com wrote, “If the CDC wasn’t going to consider the role of firearms in Wilmington’s gun crimes, why do the study at all?” That sounds an awful lot like, “If you have nothing bad to say about guns, then don’t say anything.”

And the truth.........

CDC Leaders Admit They Want to Ban Guns

In the late ’80s and early ’90s, the CDC was openly biased in opposing gun rights. CDC official and research head Patrick O’Carroll stated in a 1989 issue of The Journal of the American Medical Association, “We’re going to systematically build a case that owning firearms causes deaths.” This sounds more like activist rhetoric than it does scientific research, as O’Carroll effectively set out with the goal of confirmation bias, saying “We will prove it,” and not the scientific objectiveness of asking “Does it?”

‘It used to be that smoking was a glamour symbol — cool, sexy, macho. Now it is dirty, deadly — and banned.’

O’Carroll went on to deny he had said this, claiming he was misquoted. However, his successor and director of the CDC National Center of Injury Prevention branch Mark Rosenberg told Rolling Stone in 1993 that he “envisions a long term campaign, similar to tobacco use and auto safety, to convince Americans that guns are, first and foremost, a public health menace.”


He went on to tell theWashington Post in 1994 “We need to revolutionize the way we look at guns, like what we did with cigarettes. It used to be that smoking was a glamour symbol — cool, sexy, macho. Now it is dirty, deadly — and banned.”

CDC leaders were not shy about their intentions of banning guns from the public. Sure enough, they acted on their desires.


In October 1993, The New England Journal of Medicine released a study funded by the CDC to the tune of $1.7 million, entitled “Gun Ownership as a Risk Factor for Homicide in the Home.” The leader author was Dr. Arthur Kellermann, an epidemiologist, physician, and outspoken advocate of gun control.
In the study, Kellerman concluded that people who kept guns in their homes were 2.7 times more likely to be homicide victims as people who don’t. Major media outlets, such as the New York Times, still cite these statistics.

Unreliable Gun Research

However, the research was beyond flawed. For one, Kellermann used epidemiological methods in an attempt to investigate an issue dealing with criminology. In effect, this means he was treating gun violence the same as, say, the spread of West Nile, or bird flu.


Furthermore, the gun victims he studied were anomalies. They were selected from homicide victims living in metropolitan areas with high gun-crime statistics, which completely discounted the statistical goliath of areas where gun owners engage in little to no crime.


Other factors that lent to the study’s unreliability were: It is based entirely on people murdered in their homes, with 50 percent admitting this was the result of a “quarrel or romantic triangle,” and 30 percent said it was during a drug deal or other felonies such as rape or burglary; it made no consideration for guns used in self-defense; it provided no proof or examples that the murder weapon used in these crimes belonged to the homeowner or had been kept in that home.

---------------

And this is a good point...

Furthermore, the gun victims he studied were anomalies. They were selected from homicide victims living in metropolitan areas with high gun-crime statistics, which completely discounted the statistical goliath of areas where gun owners engage in little to no crime.

 

[JoeB131]

The only source you have is a guy who cooked the numbers to lie about guns in the home.....all you anti gun morons have are lies and emotion...the truth, the facts, the research, the statistics and reality show there is not one thing youare right about where guns are concerned.

guy, the thing is, your side has never produced a study that found different numbers.

In fact, I suspect Kellerman's numbers were probably on the cautious side.

We have 33,000 gun deaths a year, and only 200 firearms deaths ruled "Justifiable' homicides by civilians.

so really, Kellerman's numbers seem like they are spot on.

In fact, his findings were that for every one self-defense homicide, there were 39 suicides and 4 domestic murders, which actually, again, sounds about right.