Another Mall shooter finds his destiny... A good guy with a gun...

[Flash]

 

[Flash]

2022 is the year we put to rest the "only cops needs guns" myth.

 

[woodwork201]

The gun doesn't make anybody good or bad, their actions do. He was a bad guy with a gun based on how he planned on using it. The armed citizen is the good guy with a gun because he took out the bad guy.

Besides being the hero in the mall, Dicken demonstrated real leadership. He didn't just go after the bad guy, moving forward while firing, he was also was using one hand waving people behind him to move out of the way. He knew those behind him would be in danger and he took their safety in mind while approaching the shooter.

The leadership this guy showed must certainly have already been reflected in his life and work, and I imagine when we learn more about him that we'll find his response, both to the shooter and to the others that were at risk, is not a surprise at all to those who know him.

 

[woodwork201]

View attachment 672567

Who knew it was that simple? Bang... That's it; just, Bang. Sure wish those cops in Uvalde had thought of that... Bang..

 

[woodwork201]

On that I think we can agree.

Where we disagree is the who mantra that someone needs an arsenal because the cops are useless or cannot be trusted or are out of position as is the silly-assed argument often made by your fellow gun nuts:

Nobody needs an arsenal to protect themselves until the police arrive. But if I have a hundred guns in the vault and one in my hand, how is my 100 in the vault dangerous? Unless you can, with 100% accuracy, identify every threat that will come to me, my family, and my property, where I will be when the threat hits, where all of my loved ones will be, whether it will be day or night, indoors or outdoors, what the weather is, and many more variables, then you don't get to say which weapons I might need.

Actually, of course, you don't get to say anyway because it's none of your business. But you don't even get to be part of the discussion if you can't guarantee what I need. What I own is not any of your business at all.

 

[woodwork201]

Out in the sticks it can take state troopers or the Sheriffs department 20 minutes or more to arrive.

Until law enforcement does get to a crime scene, all you have is yourself for self-defense, and there is no way to defend yourself without a firearm.

From Heller:

Americans understood the “right of self-preservation” as permitting a citizen to “repe[l] force by force” when “the intervention of society in his behalf, may be too late to prevent an injury.” 1 Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146

 

[woodwork201]

No, but carrying one EVERYWHERE DOES.
I carry mine maybe 25% of the time just depends on where I'm going.
Out of town.................90% of the time.

Wow. You really are a hypocrite. It's OK for you to carry a gun but anyone else that does is a coward. You're clearly a democrat.

 

[woodwork201]

So, what about the retards that don't need anything, like in so many republican states?
No, training, No license, No experience, No age limit, No problem.

How many private gun owners have shot the wrong person when defending themselves or others? The police are 5 times more likely to shoot the wrong person.

 

[woodwork201]

I'm against that. I posted that when our state recently turned to constitutional carry. I believe that if you are going to carry a firearm out in public, you should have to prove you know how to use it, and even more importantly is knowing the laws of our state. My opinion is formed by experience when there were asshole kids at the shooting range mishandling the gun and laughing about it; one time shooting a round into the ceiling.

On the other hand, I'm unaware of any problems in states that had constitutional carry the last couple of years. Constitutional carry only allows citizens who are legally allowed to own a gun to carry. In other words it doesn't allow ex-cons to be armed in public.

I assume that you also called for mandatory training before voting, writing your congressman, protesting, etc., right? Can you post some of those links where you posted here calling for that training?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I assume that you also called for mandatory training before voting, writing your congressman, protesting, etc., right? Can you post some of those links where you posted here calling for that training?

I have no idea how you train somebody to fill in an oval with a pen. I'm assuming a lot of people that vote make out lottery cards. But I have suggested repeatedly that we should have a short test before you're allowed to vote. Simple multiple-choice questions that anybody voting should know. Questions like who is the VP? What party do they belong to? Who is the speaker if the House? What party do they belong to? What party leads the Senate? The House? Is the US in debt? If you answered yes, by how much?

If you can't pass the test, you can't vote until next election.

 

[woodwork201]

You're promoting vigilante justice. You're promoting fascism.
Vigilante justice isn't fascism and neither is racism, but they and other extremisms are common to fascism.
Stealing an election and claims of a stolen election are common to the rise of fascism too.

Extremists are already supporting your idea! You're justifying vigilante justice through your use of extremism.

Vigilante - root is vigilant.
Etymology of vigilant:

Proto-Indo-European root meaning "to be strong, be lively."​

​

It forms all or part of: awake; bewitch; bivouac; invigilate; reveille; surveillance; vedette; vegetable; velocity; vigil; vigilant; vigilante; vigor; waft; wait; wake (v.) "emerge or arise from sleep;" waken; watch; Wicca; wicked; witch.​

​

It is the hypothetical source of/evidence for its existence is provided by: Sanskrit vajah "force, strength," vajayati "drives on;" Latin vigil "watchful, awake," vigere "be lively, thrive," velox "fast, lively," vegere "to enliven," vigor "liveliness, activity;" Old English wacan "to become awake," German wachen "to be awake," Gothic wakan "to watch."​

​

Vigilantism is the default public safety mechanism of society. It was how public safety worked in the late 18th and early 19th centuries in the United States. The people themselves worked as watchmen and arrested criminals, still bringing them to the local magistrates for trials and punishment.

Cops of History: A Law Enforcement Timeline | VWU Online

The law enforcement timeline begins before the American Revolution. From private watch groups to high-tech crime labs, discover the history of police.

online.vwu.edu

When formal policing started in the mid-19th century, the expectation was a more formalized, professional, protective service for the community. It was never the expectation of the people when they went along with the creation of police forces that one day the government and the Courts would all tell them that those police forces no longer have neither obligation nor expectation that they would defend you individually or as a community. They didn't get a professional, full-time, force of watchmen; they got a professional, full-time, armed enforcement branch of an out-of-control government.

Luckily, many individual officers became officers because they do want to serve and protect the people and the community. Luckily, some haven't taken on the model, preached by many here, that says the sign on the door of their vehicle that says "to protect and to serve" means protecting and serving political leaders and not the people and not the community.

Just remember that vigilantism is the natural form of law enforcement. Any transition from that to a professional police force must have the approval and the will of the people.

Just like our forefathers surrendered a specific set of liberty in exchange for a specific, and limited, set of government services, communities must surrender a specific and limited set of liberty to their local governments and police forces. There is no natural right of government to armed, professional, full-time police forces dominating citizens into submission.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Besides being the hero in the mall, Dicken demonstrated real leadership. He didn't just go after the bad guy, moving forward while firing, he was also was using one hand waving people behind him to move out of the way. He knew those behind him would be in danger and he took their safety in mind while approaching the shooter.

The leadership this guy showed must certainly have already been reflected in his life and work, and I imagine when we learn more about him that we'll find his response, both to the shooter and to the others that were at risk, is not a surprise at all to those who know him.

Don't expect to see that anytime soon unless a Fox host invites him on. The MSM is anxious to bury this story as fast as that black guy who went to a white neighborhood to run over and kill as many white people in a parade as possible.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The grand jury never actually got to rule but you know this as it's been covered with you many times. It's why the D.A. lost his job.

The DA lost his job because Cleveland has a majority of blacks voting and nothing more. The officer broke no laws period. A suspect pulled out a very realistic weapon, and the officer used deadly force for self-defense. WTF could you charge him with?

 

[pknopp]

The DA lost his job because Cleveland has a majority of blacks voting and nothing more. The officer broke no laws period. A suspect pulled out a very realistic weapon, and the officer used deadly force for self-defense. WTF could you charge him with?

We will never know as the grand jury was never allowed to make a determination.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

We will never know as the grand jury was never allowed to make a determination.

Then what was the grand jury doing there? That's besides the fact I'm asking you: What laws did Loehmann break? After all, you can't just say send it to trial with no charges.

 

[woodwork201]

There can be many excuses or reasons for promoting vigilante justice.

Fascist measures become a reality when the need justifies that means.

There's no 'need' in Canada because mass shooting haven't yet reached epidemic proportions and so I still oppose the means.

This topic can become another debate over gun control now. Is there anything new to debate on the issue, other than another mass shooting today or tomorrow?

You don't need arms in Canada because there's not enough mass shootings? You may not but I guarantee if you ask the families of those killed in any shooting in Canada whether they wish someone had violated the law, had a handgun, and shot the shooter, the answer would be Hell YES.

 

[woodwork201]

The grocery stores I go to are not gun free zones. Not many in TX are.

.

No place I go, other than government offices, is a gun-free zone. Some request to be but none actually are, at least not when I go to them.

 

[woodwork201]

You're FOS, as usual.

"All Simon shopping centers expressly retain the right to revise or modify this code of conduct as necessary. Any exceptions to this code of conduct will be determined by local center management in its sole discretion."

Wow. That's about the stupidest, most dishonest, post in this thread. The rule of the mall was clearly no guns. That they reserve the right to change the rule doesn't mean the rule wasn't in force.

Other than that you just can't debate honestly, I can't figure out the reason why you're denying the rule. What's the upside for you? Either way, a hero saved dozens from being killed. I know that hurts your feelings. I guess that's the upside to you: distract from the good-guy-with-a-gun argument

 

[woodwork201]

Details about the armed citizen.........

He was not a cop, not a soldier...

Police said that 22-year-old Elisjsha Dicken had no prior police training and no military background and that he learned to shoot from his grandfather, CNN reported.
---
Dicken, using a 9mm Glock pistol, fired off 10 rounds, hitting the shooter eight times in the span of only 15 seconds and from a distance of about 40 yards away.

Greenwood Police Chief James Ison revealed in a statement Tuesday afternoon that he had made an error in previously saying that Dicken had neutralized the shooter in two minutes and that he wanted to correct the record, WRTV Indianapolis reported.
---
“The surveillance video shows [the shooter] exit the restroom at 5:56:48 p.m.,” he continued. “He was neutralized by Dicken at 5:57:03 p.m.


This error was simply a result of misreading notes during the conference. I feel the need to correct this immediately. Thank you.”

New Details Emerge About The Impressive Response From The Good Samaritan Who Stopped Mall Shooting | The Daily Wire

www.dailywire.com

Remember....when seconds count, 400 police officers could be 77 minutes away.....

And this is proof that the idea of mandatory training is not the solution. Grandfathers (mine was amazing, as is the grandfather of my grandchildren) and fathers are the best to teach their children about the important life skills. Family traditions, passed down for generations, are the way to teach.

 

[Batcat]

And how much did that cost? The problem with all of that is though it is a good idea......those tests will be used to deny people the ability to own and carry guns.....simply because the anti-gun fanatics don't want them to have that ability....

In Florida if you had served in the military you didn’t have to take the test to get a Concealed Carry Permit. You just needed a copy of your DD Form 214. If you were unfamiliar with Florida laws on the use of lethal force taking a class was still a good idea.

Some research I have done today showed there doesn’t seem to be a major problem with allowing people to carry without a permit.

Florida still requires a license to carry concealed and open carry in public is not permitted. Gov. Desantis says he intends to pass Constitutional Carry before he lease office.