Another Mall shooter finds his destiny... A good guy with a gun...

[Batcat]

Before we went CC you had to take a written test to make sure you knew our gun laws--very important, a range test to make sure you can shoot accurately, and have to submit to electronic finger printing. So far no problems with constitutional carry, but it just started a few months ago. We will see.

I have talked to people who had little understanding of the laws requiring the use of lethal force In Florida. It helps to know when you can legally use your handgun to defend yourself or someone else and the laws do not always make sense. For example in some states you have to retreat before you can use lethal force. That’s where a class might prove to be a good idea if you pack heat.

The range test I have watched at the pistol range at least showed that the student knew how to fire their weapon. One instructor I knew gave a really good range test that included firing at a variety of distances from 25 years to arm‘s distance. He was an ex-police chief who taught a one on one class. Other instructors just had the students fire a few rounds at a full sized silhouette target ten feet away.

 

[Batcat]

It was only 50 bucks which is understandable for administrative costs, and you had to renew it every five years, same charge. I had no problem with it. IMO if you can't pass the test, you have no business to carry a firearm. The tests are from the state, but its the CCW teacher that grades them, and you don't only get one try. If you get something wrong, the teacher will once again ask you if you wish to keep that answer, even tell you what page in the handbook the answer is on.

My feelings are that if you wish to carry a firearm in public, only those that take it seriously enough should be. When you go through all the BS to obtain a CCW, you are evidently serious about it. One thing that was repeatedly stressed in class is that getting a CCW does not make you a police officer. You will have a license to carry a firearm to protect yourselves of in rare situations, others. You do not carry a gun to enforce any laws. I think without such training, a lot of people will get the wrong idea of being able to carry a firearm. But again, only time will tell.

I have the same concern that without the class requirement to legally carry a firearm people will decide they are cops and attempt to enforce laws. However, I can’t find any data to show my concern is legitimate.

 

[woodwork201]

It's also quite possible that the shooter accomplished what he set out to do.

And again, a zone in which guns were apparently permitted, a shooter scores some wounded or killed.

Neither the armed good guy or the police are able to prevent the carnage by guns.

edit: Another mass shooting with 3 dead and an unspecified number wounded.

As Guttfeld said on The Five today, Like a Fauci Flu vaccine, the good guy with a gun can't stop the case but does reduce the severity.

 

[woodwork201]

I am not all that fond of unlicensed carry. How about providing a link to back up your statement.

You're not fond at all of the Constitution, are you?

 

[woodwork201]

Maybe? But still quite possible that he was happy that he accomplished a mass shooting. However, 3 dead compared with the other huge success rate is hardly big enough to make the news anymore in America.

The good guys with the guns need to be standing guard at the mall entrances, ready to kill before the other guy starts killing. That would make the good guys genuine vigilantes.

I think that's pretty close to what is being proposed as necessary.
I'm not sure even that would work. The bad guys would just go out looking for a Rittenhouse type carrying his gun down a busy street. And then neutralize the threat early on.

So you're going to argue that Dicken didn't actually save any lives; that the shooter was done anyway? You're a fucking moron.

 

[woodwork201]

Your proposal to allow "shoot first - ask questions later" runs VERY counter to concepts in place via our Constitution and Bill of Rights.

He doesn't mean it or believe it. He's simply distracting from the hero that saved lives. Anyone who's responding to him is just letting him control the discussion.

 

[Batcat]

Yep....and I understand that.....but I live in Illinois.....16 hours of training....finger printing, range test....wasn't 50 dollars....

16 hour class....250 bucks

Permit....150

Finger print....60

I have a friend, works 70 hours a week, could not find the time to do the 16 hours of training....been around guns his whole life.....

The fees, and requirements are too easily made to keep people from exercising this Right......

The solution is simple. Move to a gun friendly state. Just remember not to vote for Democrats after you move. Don’t screw up the state you move to.

Some gun friendly states don’t have state income taxes. Another advantage.

In Florida some concealed weapons classes are advertised at $50 per person. If you are a military vet you don’t need the class, just your DD Form 214. Much more reasonable than Illinois.

Further info on Florida Concealed Carry requirements on this link.

Florida Concealed Carry [Updated: 1/16/2023]

Find answers to all of your Florida concealed carry and firearm law questions. How to get a Texas Concealed Weapon License and more.

www.usacarry.com

 

[woodwork201]

Can you blame them? Their goal is a disarmed society. They can't accomplish that goal when a mass shooter is taken down. If this good guy wasn't there, it would have led to dozens possibly being killed and then the left can use those unfortunate souls as an example of why we need to disarm Americans good or bad.

What did Dementia do when he addressed the school shooting? He used those dead kids to launch yet another attack on the NRA and armed citizens in general. Like WTF did the NRA have to do with a school shooting? It didn't matter.

This really nails it because not only were they robbed of body count, a lot of people are rethinking their own anti-gun thinking.

 

[woodwork201]

It's hard to believe they're still in business. Of course it all depends on how many Democrats are in the area. Those people just love those masks. They'll wear them anywhere, even when they are nowhere near anybody.

In most Asian restaurants, a mask is a good idea - it keeps you from getting the food into your mouth.

 

[woodwork201]

I admit I haven’t done much research on Constitutional Carry and if it causes more crime than Shall Issue concealed carry.

The advantage I see to licensed carry is that people have to pass a background check. People who can pass background checks are usually responsible enough to to not be a problem. However a number of states have went to Constitutional Carry and I haven’t heard a lot of complaints.

(Note the document below is a PDF file.

Report from the Crime Prevention Research Center Concealed Carry Permit Holders Across the United States: 2021*

https://deliverypdf.ssrn.com/delivery.php?ID=613115082115014014098028115020077004105010020053060007069092009069005112002099118030098123043125040056029117102010126115094084048016013022088021115099117123109004039050110025124091070010025065121111125117023027075117113022119081073113006103127103&EXT=pdf&INDEX=TRUE

***snip***

Concealed handgun permit holders are extremely law-abiding. In Florida and Texas, permit holders are convicted of firearms related violations at one-twelfth of the rate at which police officers are convicted.

You do love you some infringement, don't you? Do you also call for a license to vote or to speak out? Or government permission for a trial?

 

[woodwork201]

Constitutional carry doesn't create crime...it simply cuts out the taxes, fees and red tape that keep normal Americans from carrying guns...the criminals are already carrying their guns illegally.......

Background checks?

Do you realize that the only reason anti-gun fanatics push "universal," background checks is to come back later, when they also don't reduce crime or mass public shootings, and demand gun registration?

The anti-gunners don't care about stopping criminals.....you can see that because nothing they propose effects criminals....everything they want passed is focused on normal Americans and taking their guns...

Most people ignore the operable part of constitutional carry. It is what the Constitution requires - no infringement. States that allow constitutional carry are following (sort of) the Constitution.

Those who object to constitutional carry are objecting to the Constitution.

 

[woodwork201]

It was only 50 bucks which is understandable for administrative costs, and you had to renew it every five years, same charge. I had no problem with it. IMO if you can't pass the test, you have no business to carry a firearm. The tests are from the state, but its the CCW teacher that grades them, and you don't only get one try. If you get something wrong, the teacher will once again ask you if you wish to keep that answer, even tell you what page in the handbook the answer is on.

My feelings are that if you wish to carry a firearm in public, only those that take it seriously enough should be. When you go through all the BS to obtain a CCW, you are evidently serious about it. One thing that was repeatedly stressed in class is that getting a CCW does not make you a police officer. You will have a license to carry a firearm to protect yourselves of in rare situations, others. You do not carry a gun to enforce any laws. I think without such training, a lot of people will get the wrong idea of being able to carry a firearm. But again, only time will tell.

And should only those who take it serious enough to study for a test be allowed to vote? (I sure wish it were so). Should only lawyers get a lawyer? Should there be a test/certification process for the free press? Hillary sure thought so; do you?

 

[woodwork201]

The Grand Jury found he broke no laws. WTF do you want a police officer to do when somebody is pulling a gun on him?

If cops in the 50s and 60s were as quick to shoot when they saw something in the hands of a kid, or anyone else for that matter, as they are today, I'd have never made it through childhood. There was hardly a time when I was playing that I didn't have a toy gun, not just cowboy looking guns. By the time I was 12, we were talking through town with real guns, headed out of town to shoot crows, etc.

 

[woodwork201]

View attachment 672558

I'm just glad to see he had a mask on. Otherwise the left would have been really pissed.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

And should only those who take it serious enough to study for a test be allowed to vote? (I sure wish it were so). Should only lawyers get a lawyer? Should there be a test/certification process for the free press? Hillary sure thought so; do you?

I don't know what you are getting at since we have tons of regulations on guns as it is. When you use a firearm to protect your home, if you don't know how to use it, you can only bring harm to yourself and occupants in the home. But when you use a gun in public, I want to make sure I'm safe from you by being tested on knowing what you're doing. A free press doesn't present any threat to me. A clown with a gun that thinks he can hit a target consistently at 25 feet away is a different story.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

If cops in the 50s and 60s were as quick to shoot when they saw something in the hands of a kid, or anyone else for that matter, as they are today, I'd have never made it through childhood. There was hardly a time when I was playing that I didn't have a toy gun, not just cowboy looking guns. By the time I was 12, we were talking through town with real guns, headed out of town to shoot crows, etc.

When I was a kid toy guns looked like toy guns. This is what the officer seen when the 5"9" 190 lbs kid pulled the toy gun. It's a picture of the one he used and the real gun that it was replicated from.

When the kid got the gun there was a fluorescent orange tip on the end so that one could distinguish that from a real gun. He removed it so it did look like the real thing.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I have the same concern that without the class requirement to legally carry a firearm people will decide they are cops and attempt to enforce laws. However, I can’t find any data to show my concern is legitimate.

I'm going to give it about a year to see if any problems arise, then I'll be able to say it's okay or it's not. Again, my opinion is formed by what I witnessed at the shooting range.

 

[woodwork201]

I have no idea how you train somebody to fill in an oval with a pen. I'm assuming a lot of people that vote make out lottery cards. But I have suggested repeatedly that we should have a short test before you're allowed to vote. Simple multiple-choice questions that anybody voting should know. Questions like who is the VP? What party do they belong to? Who is the speaker if the House? What party do they belong to? What party leads the Senate? The House? Is the US in debt? If you answered yes, by how much?

If you can't pass the test, you can't vote until next election.

I do love the idea of mandatory classes on the Constitution before voting, perhaps pretty much in the same way you seem to love the idea of mandatory training in order to get permission to exercise the right to keep and bear arms. The problem is, for both of us, neither is constitutional.

We can't overlook the Constitution for the things we might wish for and then be upset when others overlook it for the things they wish for - like taking our guns. We need to always stand up for following the Constitution, otherwise we lose all moral right to insist on it when we need it.

Consider other ways to get what you want - people handling guns safely. Consider mandatory gun safety in the public schools. Mandatory militia training for all males from 16-60. Don't tie it to keeping and bearing arms, tie it to militia duty - and then require that every male 16-60 own an AR-15 (or even M-16/M-4).

There are 100 million gun owners today and roughly 500 accidental gun deaths. That's one death for each two-hundred thousand gun owners. If mandatory training would solve half of those, then that's 250 a year and a rate of one out of four-hundred thousand.

Either rate is higher than we wish it would be but 500 deaths is still a minuscule fraction of the total of two-hundred thousand accidental deaths each year.

Unfortunately, too many years of no consequences for crime, no guns in the homes, no teaching respect for the police and others, and no civics/Constitutioni, and early American history, have left us with a huge criminal debt that will have to be resolved. That means more prisons, more lawlessness, more danger in our streets, perhaps for generations, until morality, gun safety skills, intelligent voting, and many other needs will be met in our society. But if we want to restore a civil society we don't get it by creating unconstitutional, feel good, laws and regulations; we do it by going back to what our nation was intended by our Fore-fathers to be.

If you want training to save lives, start with training pool owners, including those who buy the 10 dollar plastic pools at Walmart every summer, and mandatory swimming classes for all children. You'd save far more lives and do it constitutionally - as long as it was done at the State level and not Federal.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I have talked to people who had little understanding of the laws requiring the use of lethal force In Florida. It helps to know when you can legally use your handgun to defend yourself or someone else and the laws do not always make sense. For example in some states you have to retreat before you can use lethal force. That’s where a class might prove to be a good idea if you pack heat.

The range test I have watched at the pistol range at least showed that the student knew how to fire their weapon. One instructor I knew gave a really good range test that included firing at a variety of distances from 25 years to arm‘s distance. He was an ex-police chief who taught a one on one class. Other instructors just had the students fire a few rounds at a full sized silhouette target ten feet away.

Ours was a piece of typing paper at about 18 feet, but you had to get at least 17 out of 20 shots in the paper. It was a private class. My friends son had a license to teach it who is now a police officer. Several of my friends and family couldn't do it, so I let them use my .357 stainless steel revolver with a 5" barrel, and brought .38's to use. When you have that heavy of a gun and shooting 38's out of it, it's like shooting a pellet gun. No kickback whatsoever. We all passed with flying colors.

 

[beagle9]

The powerless sure got the powers that be to their feet when they protested in the streets and burned things down.

Dude, that was caused by the powers that be, the rube's we're just manipulated or brainwashed, and it's still going on... Don't you know anything ? To busy trying to defend the indefensible eh ??