Another perspective

[IM2]

Yep. Because no one black has created a law or policy that purposefully denies whites of opportunity, Calling you a white boy doesn't deny you a job.

Specifically what existing law or policy presently denies Blacks of opportunity?

Did you ever hear of Affirmative Action? My son-in-law did. It's the reason he was passed over for promotion on his NYC civil service job.

It is increasingly clear that you are typical of those Blacks who go through life imagining all sorts of injustice.

Affirmative action is not why your son in law was passed over. Employers cannot legally disclose reasons for not hiring aside from we picked a better candidate. So if this was done a law was broken meaning that you need to understand that just because laws are written doesn't mean they are followed.

I don't imagine anything. But you are a white person who imagines all kinds of injustices that don't happen to you. I mean look at your post. You imagine affirmative action discriminates against whites when whites are the majority of people employed in America.

 

[IM2]

I doubt that.

If you had no grasp of reality ... It wouldn't matter if you doubted it ...




But ... It is obvious that you are completely unreachable using my current methods.
In light of this ... I am going to take concept described in the OP (with a minor adjustment) and use it to explain some things to you.
I will share some of my feelings about racism and the effects it has had on my life experiences.
I can do this because I am not fragile and can talk about race and racism with you.

None of this is meant to compare your experiences with racism to mine ... I am just sharing with you.

I have mentioned it before ... My grandparents were racists ... No doubt about it.
My parents weren't ... So I was somewhat sheltered from it ... Outside of when visiting my grandparents.

Late in her life ... My grandmother was finally put in a nursing home ... Constant care and supervision were necessary.
I live in the Deep South ... And It is not uncommon for the majority of the nursing staff and some of the doctors to be black.

As my parents and sibling struggled with their lives ... I was comfortable enough to often have spare time.
On frequent occasions I chose to use my free time to visit my ailing grandmother.
I can honestly say I witnessed the most disgusting and vile, constant onslaught of outright racism on a weekly, if not daily basis (I am positive it happened every day).

That racism came from my grandmother and was directed at the nursing staff and her black doctor.
Rudeness, cruelty, and a generally vile disposition ... Don't even come close to describing the way she acted or the things she expressed.

What impressed me the most was the way the nursing staff handled these encounters ... And the way they treated me in light of my relations to my grandmother.
They were always professional ... They paid particular attention to ensuring she always got the intensive care she needed.

For a long time I wondered if even I would have been able to handle that situation with the same grace and professionalism.
There was no way I could apologize for her actions ... To me, they were unforgivable.

I would have never made it through the years I went there ... If it hadn't been for the respect and decency the staff showed me.
If you have any misconception as to what I think about racism ... You can keep it yourself.

.

Me and reality are just fine. I'm not the one taking about blaming people from the past when that had nothing to do with the topic.

This thread is not about your family history. YOU just don't get it. You are doing everything the lady writes about and keep doing it while claiming you aren't

 

[MikeK]

I don't listen to that and you've set a lot of time looking for this and none of it has anything to do with the thread topic.

Maybe you don't listen to it but the sales volume indicates that a substantial number of mainly teen-age Blacks do. But whether you listen to it or not, I've taken the trouble to show the lyrics to you and ask your opinion, which is expressed in the nonsense shown below.

So when those lyrics are transformed into laws and policies that punish whites for being white then we'll talk about what I think.

Specifically what laws and policies punish Blacks for being Black?

So I'll ask you again; what do you think about lyrics (messages) that encourage Blacks to kill Whites? Can you cite any widely publicized message that even vaguely attempts to incite Whites to harm Blacks in any way?

PS: I don't expect a direct, relevant answer. I'm asking the question because I know it will reveal your tendency evade and obscure rather than deal with facts and reality.

 

[BlackSand]

Me and reality are just fine. I'm not the one taking about blaming people from the past when that had nothing to do with the topic.

This thread is not about your family history. YOU just don't get it. You are doing everything the lady writes about and keep doing it while claiming you aren't

Don't get me wrong ... I am positive you are comfortable with your alternate reality.
I didn't think you could get the point ... I tried ... Good luck in your doomed endeavors.

You remind me of my grandmother ... She was just as ignorant in her racism ...

.

 

[IM2]

Me and reality are just fine. I'm not the one taking about blaming people from the past when that had nothing to do with the topic.

This thread is not about your family history. YOU just don't get it. You are doing everything the lady writes about and keep doing it while claiming you aren't

I didn't think you could get the point ... I tried ... Good luck in your doomed endeavors.

.

What did you try?

What you need to do is read the links you were given then think about hw you react to situations where you are discussing racism with a person of color after they explain how they feel.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Regardless, Asians on average have higher incomes than Whites in the U.S.A.
Therefor they are an example of success.

It depends how you look at the facts

Median family income in 2014:

• $61,000 Asian American
• $52,500 white
• $38,000 Latino
• $35,300 black
• $33,240 Native American

Asian come on top in median family income but when you change it to personal income

You get:

• $24,000 whites
• $23,000
• $22,000
• $21,000
• $20,000 Asian American
• $19,000
• $18,000
• $17,000
• $16,000 blacks
• $15,000 Native Americans
• $14,000 Latinos

Asian Americans come out on top of whites in median family income only because Asian families have by and large more people working. So this was picked because it supports white ppls stereotype about Asians as successful, which in turn makes it seem like American society is not racist.

And let's break it down even more by nationality:

• $26,000 Japanese, Asian Indians
• $25,000
• $24,000 whites
• $23,000 Filipinos
• $22,000
• $21,000
• $20,000 Asian American, Chinese
• $19,000 Pacific Islanders
• $18,000
• $17,000
• $16,000 blacks, Koreans, Vietnamese, Cambodians, Laotians
• $15,000 Native Americans
• $14,000 Latinos

So Asian American covers too broader range so it's pretty much

Most who fled Indo-China after the Vietnam War and came to America with next to nothing are still at the bottom, making less than blacks on average. Even Korean Americans, despite their supposedly high IQs, have not clearly passed blacks, much less whites: they are the same as blacks in terms of median personal income ($16,300) and rate of home ownership

They make higher incomes, it's their own responsibility that their personal income falls largely due to having more kids.

 

[BlackSand]

What did you try?

What's it to you ... You have link to support your ignorance ...

All I have is my life experiences ... And since life experiences aren't something you want to share or you are too fragile to discuss ... I am not going to lose any sleep over it.

.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Johnnie Turner says black people have to tell their stories. People have to hear the stories or they won't know. Instead of just bonking white people over the head for being ignorant racists, why not tell the stories that would help us SEE the other side. What happens here in discussion about race never gets us anywhere because no one's perspective gets changed. We can't walk in your shoes until you tell us what it is like on a daily basis. Don't scream it at us or exaggerate it. Just tell the stories.
Just a suggestion.

Doesnt matter what form the truth is put in. Whites just deny it. Any Black person that wastes time telling white people the truth be it in story form or any other form is a fool. The only way that it is worth the time is if you have a chance to educate other Blacks that may overhear the conversation.

The separatist speaks. This isn't your thread, A, since the OP is actually based on the hope of DIALOGUE.

I'm not a black separatist but what whites need to understand is why there may be blacks who feel this is needed. The black separatist isn't the same as the white one. The reasons for their beliefs are completely different. This is all part of whites learning to listen to our experience.

Don't get this conflated and do not let others here who will do so do it either.

I was speaking specifically to Aesclepius, who is quite openly a separatist, at least last time I talked with him. Did I make a judgment on that, or did you just worry that I was?

Neither. I am saying that the fact he is a separatist should not be conflated as the same as white separatists. Generally blacks who feel the need to separate is because we haven't been able to get along as races. They want separation because of white racism. White separatists do not hold those views. They feel they are superior and want to be separate because of that. So while I may not hold the same views, I am able to understand his reasoning for feeling as he does. Therefore to just haul off and call him a separatist is to deny him the experience he has had which made him feel that separation is the only solution. and it allows others to lump him in with white separatists like they all have the same reason for wanting to separate. Had there been no slavery, white racism or no continuing white racism, there would be no blacks wanting to separate. You cannot say that for whites who want to separate.

Some Blacks do feel they're superior to Whites, they have a melanin theory even LOL

 

[MikeK]

Affirmative action is not why your son in law was passed over.

[...]

Arrirmative Action is indeed the reason he was passed over. New York City Civil Service entrance exams add points to qualification scores for veterans and minorities.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Neither. I am saying that the fact he is a separatist should not be conflated as the same as white separatists. Generally blacks who feel the need to separate is because we haven't been able to get along as races. They want separation because of white racism. White separatists do not hold those views. They feel they are superior and want to be separate because of that. So while I may not hold the same views, I am able to understand his reasoning for feeling as he does. Therefore to just haul off and call him a separatist is to deny him the experience he has had which made him feel that separation is the only solution. and it allows others to lump him in with white separatists like they all have the same reason for wanting to separate. Had there been no slavery, white racism or no continuing white racism, there would be no blacks wanting to separate. You cannot say that for whites who want to separate.

Therefore to just haul off and call him a separatist is to deny him the experience he has had which made him feel that separation is the only solution. and it allows others to lump him in with white separatists like they all have the same reason for wanting to separate.
"Just haul off and call him a separatist?" LOL. I doubt if A would lose any sleep over it. I could be wrong, though.
You know what, IM2? It is some fuckin tricky trying to have a conversation with you when you read stuff into my words that isn't there.
I agree with your explanation of how black and white separatists differ. Not sure how my remark is opening a can of worms, though.

Why would you expect a reasonable discussion with an unrepentant racist like that?

I don't think he's a racist and we have had a fairly reasonable discussion, as far it goes.
What makes you think he's a racist? Where has he indicated he considers blacks to be superior?

Read the rest of his posts.

You have been asked to show proof of something. Your comments are not proof. There is no place where I have said whites don't want to work, whites only want to lay up and fuck, Whites cannot read, whites naturally have a lower IQ none of it. I have never even said all whites are racists, Nothing close. You're just a fool with an elementary mindset.

'

It's funny that you sound more upset with anti-Racist Unkotare, than my Racist self.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Judging by this forum, then there must be even more of a Black fragility, it's especially apparent with Tiggered, Paul, and yourself.

but I'm not black, you know that, right?

Why do you insist on fighting for the other team?

I'm not on a team.

Well, you don't seem to care much about the well being of Whites.

Whites are pretty much doing quite well.

Really? Ever visit the hills of Appalachia?

 

[IM2]

I don't listen to that and you've set a lot of time looking for this and none of it has anything to do with the thread topic.

Maybe you don't listen to it but the sales volume indicates that a substantial number of mainly teen-age Blacks do. But whether you listen to it or not, I've taken the trouble to show the lyrics to you and ask your opinion, which is expressed in the nonsense shown below.

So when those lyrics are transformed into laws and policies that punish whites for being white then we'll talk about what I think.

Specifically what laws and policies punish Blacks for being Black?

So I'll ask you again; what do you think about lyrics (messages) that encourage Blacks to kill Whites? Can you cite any widely publicized message that even vaguely attempts to incite Whites to harm Blacks in any way?

PS: I don't expect a direct, relevant answer. I'm asking the question because I know it will reveal your tendency evade and obscure rather than deal with facts and reality.

The sales volume indicates that a substantial number of mainly white youth listen to this music. Not what you say.

I think those lyrics are not encouraging blacks to kill all whites There is no record of mass terrorism ever happening on the black side of the ledger. I am not a teenager and like the excuses you made when I was trying to discuss how whites now have benefitted from racist laws in the past because you were not their, you didn't own slaves or you were bot your parents, well the same thing applies to these lyrics. I took the trouble to show you SCOTUS decisions and public policy which you and others refused to discuss. I don't listen to that, I am not a teenager, and this has noting to do with the thread topic. End of discussion.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Everyone who has read your posts knows you are a filthy racist.

Can I play devils advocate ?

Let's say (for arguments sake) he IM2 is racist and throw me into the mix and let's say I'm racist too.

Now what ?

Explain to me how that affects you or white ppl in general ?

Well, right back at you.

How do a hand full of anti-Black racists on an internet forum affect you, or Black people in general?

 

[IM2]

.

but I'm not black, you know that, right?

Why do you insist on fighting for the other team?

I'm not on a team.

Well, you don't seem to care much about the well being of Whites.

Whites are pretty much doing quite well.

Really? Ever visit the hills of Appalachia?

This has nothing to do with the thread topic.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

The separatist speaks. This isn't your thread, A, since the OP is actually based on the hope of DIALOGUE.

Think that is a wonderful point Old Lady.

Dialogue is pretty much a discussion involving at least two points of view (they don't have to be contradictory).
Monologue ... Well that is a different story ... And should be accepted as one's desire to express their own point of view ... And is not dependent on open discussion.

.

Racism is about hearing 2 points of view. You are not wiling to listen to my point of view. You want me to read Thomas Sowell . That's not listening to my point of view.

Thanks for clearing that up, Doctor Spock.

Now we know that Racism is about hearing 2 points of view.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

OK we have had multiple threads about how blacks can do this or that and usually when the subject is turned to whites the thread gets trolled or moved. How about we look at a phenomenon called White Fragility. This is a term coined by a white female, Dr. Robin Deangelo.

White people in North America live in a social environment that protects and insulates them from race-based stress. This insulated environment of racial protection builds white expectations for racial comfort while at the same time lowering the ability to tolerate racial stress, leading to what I refer to as White Fragility. White Fragility is a state in which even a minimum amount of racial stress becomes intolerable, triggering a range of defensive moves. These moves include the outward display of emotions such as anger, fear, and guilt, and behaviors such as argumentation, silence, and leaving the stress-inducing situation. These behaviors, in turn, function to reinstate white racial equilibrium.”

“Any white person living in the United States will develop opinions about race simply by swimming in the water of our culture. But mainstream sources—schools, textbooks, media—don’t provide us with the multiple perspectives we need. Yes, we will develop strong emotionally laden opinions, but they will not be informed opinions. Our socialization renders us racially illiterate. When you add a lack of humility to that illiteracy (because we don’t know what we don’t know), you get the break-down we so often see when trying to engage white people in meaningful conversations about race.”

Dr. Robin DiAngelo

We have heard all the many ways blacks are fucked up and how we need to change according to the many whites here. How about we now look at what WHITES can did to erase the division by race in America?

Johnnie Turner says black people have to tell their stories. People have to hear the stories or they won't know. Instead of just bonking white people over the head for being ignorant racists, why not tell the stories that would help us SEE the other side. What happens here in discussion about race never gets us anywhere because no one's perspective gets changed. We can't walk in your shoes until you tell us what it is like on a daily basis. Don't scream it at us or exaggerate it. Just tell the stories.
Just a suggestion.

While I appreciate what you have said, whites have for the better part of 2.5 centuries beat us over the head about how worthless we are. And we have asked for that to stop. It doesn't. So then when we talk to whites, once again they try establishing the rules we have to follow in order to for them to listen. And that's one of the main problems with this kind of discussion. Whites need to hear the anger and in some cases the outright hate to understand exactly what their racism has done to people. I think it's highly unfair for whites to tell us that they won't listen unless we say it to them how they want to hear it. I know you mean no harm here old lady but that is exactly what you have done. We have told you what it was like for us for at least 241 years. We have been screamed at and killed for trying to do it as well. So in my view if screaming is warranted that's what should be done. Therefore let me help you see what you have just done,.

We aren't listening at all. YOU are responsible for your life. Not me, not the President, not the UN. George Soros thinks he can use you to cause grief for the USA. We aren't listening to him either.

You have the exact rights that I have. Scream all you want. You turn towns into ghettos, you created Chicago's new norm, You don't raise your children to be productive individuals. The drummer I hired to teach my youth group kids, had 11 kids of his own. He even knew where 2 of them were. Then we all got to watch him be arraigned for selling crack. Sadly, he is NOT the exception to the rule.

Ben Carson kept his zipper zipped, said no to the pipe and went to school. Emulate him instead of the drummer, and then watch your "privileges" improve. We aren't putting you in your place. YOU are the problem with you.

I'll continue to work hard to provide for my family and you go put a black hoodie on and hang out in the street. Paychecks are what make me look privileged to you.
I'll put in a new pool. I told the business I shouldn't have to pay for it because I am white, but contrary to what you believe, I had to pay for it just like Mr. Carson had to pay for his. What you consider privilege, others understand as a reward for a job well done. A paycheck.

And tomorrow, you'll put on your black hoodie, and whine about whitey's pool. I won't hear you, because I'll be in the pool............

Here is anther example the article was talking about.

Well you see, I went to college and got a masters degree in sociology. I then spent 32 years doing work in the black community. I have never hit the pipe or fathered a child out of wedlock. Ben Carson means nothing to me. He's a punk ass sellout whites like you love to use as an example because he do the bojangles for you ,wear the black face and shuffle like the black minstrel lawn jockey he is. I have helped build one business and helped 2 others grow. But that doesn't mean racism ended. I earned my checks bitch. All of them. So I will put on my black hoodie tomorrow and watch those like you cry about how whites are losing their country. And if I am standing on the street in my black hoodie it is because I am fucking retired. You know what that is? It is the reward for years of a well done job. So don't YOU be like the drummer, ignorant and whining about what privilege is. YOU and those like you are the problem. I'm part of the solution.

So you don't have to hear anything, but when the change hits and you ask what happened, you will understand that you drowned in your pool.

Right there is your problem. Ben Carson has done nothing to earn your disrespect. You merely hate him because he is black and successful.

BTW, a degree in sociology is nothing to crow about. I had to take sociology in college and went to class on the first day, test days, and the final. I passed easily.

My wife has a degree in sociology. She works in a call center fixing people's internet!

It is the easiest degree to get outside a high school diploma.

 

[BlackSand]

Really? Ever visit the hills of Appalachia?

This has nothing to do with the thread topic.

He quoted you ... You should try and stay on topic if that is important to you.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

.

Why do you insist on fighting for the other team?

I'm not on a team.

Well, you don't seem to care much about the well being of Whites.

Whites are pretty much doing quite well.

Really? Ever visit the hills of Appalachia?

This has nothing to do with the thread topic.

You said whites are doing quite well. I assumed you were an expert! Apparently not!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

OK we have had multiple threads about how blacks can do this or that and usually when the subject is turned to whites the thread gets trolled or moved. How about we look at a phenomenon called White Fragility. This is a term coined by a white female, Dr. Robin Deangelo.

White people in North America live in a social environment that protects and insulates them from race-based stress. This insulated environment of racial protection builds white expectations for racial comfort while at the same time lowering the ability to tolerate racial stress, leading to what I refer to as White Fragility. White Fragility is a state in which even a minimum amount of racial stress becomes intolerable, triggering a range of defensive moves. These moves include the outward display of emotions such as anger, fear, and guilt, and behaviors such as argumentation, silence, and leaving the stress-inducing situation. These behaviors, in turn, function to reinstate white racial equilibrium.”

“Any white person living in the United States will develop opinions about race simply by swimming in the water of our culture. But mainstream sources—schools, textbooks, media—don’t provide us with the multiple perspectives we need. Yes, we will develop strong emotionally laden opinions, but they will not be informed opinions. Our socialization renders us racially illiterate. When you add a lack of humility to that illiteracy (because we don’t know what we don’t know), you get the break-down we so often see when trying to engage white people in meaningful conversations about race.”

Dr. Robin DiAngelo

We have heard all the many ways blacks are fucked up and how we need to change according to the many whites here. How about we now look at what WHITES can did to erase the division by race in America?

Johnnie Turner says black people have to tell their stories. People have to hear the stories or they won't know. Instead of just bonking white people over the head for being ignorant racists, why not tell the stories that would help us SEE the other side. What happens here in discussion about race never gets us anywhere because no one's perspective gets changed. We can't walk in your shoes until you tell us what it is like on a daily basis. Don't scream it at us or exaggerate it. Just tell the stories.
Just a suggestion.

While I appreciate what you have said, whites have for the better part of 2.5 centuries beat us over the head about how worthless we are. And we have asked for that to stop. It doesn't. So then when we talk to whites, once again they try establishing the rules we have to follow in order to for them to listen. And that's one of the main problems with this kind of discussion. Whites need to hear the anger and in some cases the outright hate to understand exactly what their racism has done to people. I think it's highly unfair for whites to tell us that they won't listen unless we say it to them how they want to hear it. I know you mean no harm here old lady but that is exactly what you have done. We have told you what it was like for us for at least 241 years. We have been screamed at and killed for trying to do it as well. So in my view if screaming is warranted that's what should be done. Therefore let me help you see what you have just done,.

We aren't listening at all. YOU are responsible for your life. Not me, not the President, not the UN. George Soros thinks he can use you to cause grief for the USA. We aren't listening to him either.

You have the exact rights that I have. Scream all you want. You turn towns into ghettos, you created Chicago's new norm, You don't raise your children to be productive individuals. The drummer I hired to teach my youth group kids, had 11 kids of his own. He even knew where 2 of them were. Then we all got to watch him be arraigned for selling crack. Sadly, he is NOT the exception to the rule.

Ben Carson kept his zipper zipped, said no to the pipe and went to school. Emulate him instead of the drummer, and then watch your "privileges" improve. We aren't putting you in your place. YOU are the problem with you.

I'll continue to work hard to provide for my family and you go put a black hoodie on and hang out in the street. Paychecks are what make me look privileged to you.
I'll put in a new pool. I told the business I shouldn't have to pay for it because I am white, but contrary to what you believe, I had to pay for it just like Mr. Carson had to pay for his. What you consider privilege, others understand as a reward for a job well done. A paycheck.

And tomorrow, you'll put on your black hoodie, and whine about whitey's pool. I won't hear you, because I'll be in the pool............

Here is anther example the article was talking about.

Well you see, I went to college and got a masters degree in sociology. I then spent 32 years doing work in the black community. I have never hit the pipe or fathered a child out of wedlock. Ben Carson means nothing to me. He's a punk ass sellout whites like you love to use as an example because he do the bojangles for you ,wear the black face and shuffle like the black minstrel lawn jockey he is. I have helped build one business and helped 2 others grow. But that doesn't mean racism ended. I earned my checks bitch. All of them. So I will put on my black hoodie tomorrow and watch those like you cry about how whites are losing their country. And if I am standing on the street in my black hoodie it is because I am fucking retired. You know what that is? It is the reward for years of a well done job. So don't YOU be like the drummer, ignorant and whining about what privilege is. YOU and those like you are the problem. I'm part of the solution.

So you don't have to hear anything, but when the change hits and you ask what happened, you will understand that you drowned in your pool.

Sociology is a joke of a college credit. The best thing about it is learning art and artists.

The rest of it is a farce to the point of being comical.

Oh yes, me and my black friend were in the same Sociology class. He's now a preacher, but when it got to be being bullshit, I said something, and he was about the only one that supported me.

He's a smart man. A God-fearing one, too.

There's no way you believe in God and pursued a Master's in Sociology. It's like Satan's required college credit.

I think you are a slight bit confused. There is no "art and artists" in sociology.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

.

I'm not on a team.

Well, you don't seem to care much about the well being of Whites.

Whites are pretty much doing quite well.

Really? Ever visit the hills of Appalachia?

This has nothing to do with the thread topic.

You said whites are doing quite well. I assumed you were an expert! Apparently not!

Did any Blacks ever suffer more than Ukrainians did in the 1930's - 1940's?

About 4 million Ukrainians were killed in the 1930's in the Holodomor terror famine.
About 4 million more Ukrainians were killed in the 1940's fighting Nazi Germany
Millions more Ukrainians passed through Soviet Gulags, and Nazi slave labor camps in the 1930's - 1940's too.