Another perspective

[Unkotare]

So, what is it then?

[re:anti-black violence]

Where is it?

XXXX -- Mod Edit for Copyright Fair Use. IM2
Let’s just get this out of the way: The fact is, if you’re white in America, you’ve likely said, thought, or done something racist. It’s just a fact. We were all brought up in a white supremacist culture. Not only do we passively participate in institutionalized racism as white people, we benefit from it! To shy away from that is to put oneself (yet again) above people of color.

IF you want to be fair, and I know that is your ultimate goal, you have to add blacks, Asians, Native Americans, and virtually every other race and nationality are prejudiced in favor of people like themselves.

"Let's just get this out of the way: The fact is, if you're black in America, you've likely said, thought, or done something racist. It's just a fact."

Yeah lets just get this out of the way. Blacks react to the racism we get. Things are not exactly the same by race Markle. If we think a certain way about whites, it is because of what whites have continually done to us for almost 400 years. Whites always fail to understand this, it'.s like whites choose to have amnesia.

So what you are doing is exactly what the writer describes as it pertains to white fragility. So if we want to be fair we try understanding how blacks, Asians, native Americans and others feel about the consistent racism they have gotten from whites instead of trying to say that we all have thought racist things like we all have he same experiences.

Think about it, if I think bad things about whites after I read some of the stuff from the majority of whites posting here, is it because I am thinking racist thoughts? This is how many whites try making false equivalences with racism.

I thought you said there was no such thing as race?

I really don't think you want to try this with me son. Race is an artificial construct but as long as people are going to talk using race then we will use race in examples. Understand? Now I know you call yourself dong something but what you are about to do is make yourself answer a whole bunch of questions whites like you never answer,

Wow, those are some pretty intimidating letters you typed there, but I'm gonna go ahead and respond anyway. Ask whatever questions you like. I won't run and hide from them the way you do. Btw, unless you are Darth Vader, you can save that "son" talk, racist.

 

[Correll]

"maligned hatred?" That's a bit much.
No one can listen when they're under attack, so I don't expect an answer to this, but is there ANYTHING in the OP that you could own as possibly something you do? I don't see you as a racist, but I agree that all of us are the product of our raising, and the unconscious, unwritten and unspoken values around us are almost never analyzed. I believe you when you say you have no issue with black folks in your daily life. For you, that is as far as the matter should go. For some of us, I think that's good enough.
You will change the world in another way.

I disagree. This person has major problems with racism. Non racist whites are able to handle a discussion of subject like this without doing all the things this person has done. ....

And there we go.


Since he disagrees with you, he must be racist.


And you claim to want dialog.

lol!!!

Well no that's not it. Besides this article is not my opinion but the facts from. a well known and respected WHITE Ph.D in the field who is relating her experiences in trying to talk to white people about racism. Maybe you read the article Corell? How about that?

The unsupported opinion of a PHD, is just as much an unsupported opinion as anyone else's.

It is not fact.


If there was any attempt at supporting data in the link, you should have led with that, instead of the normal race bullshit.


White Fragility is just another excuse for liberals to dismiss arguments they can't refute honestly.

Except the opinion is supported by years for workshops on racism with whites she has done .

This is the race and racism area. I think I can lead with race here if I so choose. If we were in another section your whining would have merit..

I would ask for a link to the study, but truth be told, I can't take anything that person says seriously.


Maybe to someone else peer reviewing it?

 

[IM2]

So, what is it then?

[re:anti-black violence]

Where is it?

XXXX -- Mod Edit for Copyright Fair Use. IM2
Let’s just get this out of the way: The fact is, if you’re white in America, you’ve likely said, thought, or done something racist. It’s just a fact. We were all brought up in a white supremacist culture. Not only do we passively participate in institutionalized racism as white people, we benefit from it! To shy away from that is to put oneself (yet again) above people of color.

IF you want to be fair, and I know that is your ultimate goal, you have to add blacks, Asians, Native Americans, and virtually every other race and nationality are prejudiced in favor of people like themselves.

"Let's just get this out of the way: The fact is, if you're black in America, you've likely said, thought, or done something racist. It's just a fact."

Yeah lets just get this out of the way. Blacks react to the racism we get. Things are not exactly the same by race Markle. If we think a certain way about whites, it is because of what whites have continually done to us for almost 400 years. Whites always fail to understand this, it'.s like whites choose to have amnesia.

So what you are doing is exactly what the writer describes as it pertains to white fragility. So if we want to be fair we try understanding how blacks, Asians, native Americans and others feel about the consistent racism they have gotten from whites instead of trying to say that we all have thought racist things like we all have he same experiences.

Think about it, if I think bad things about whites after I read some of the stuff from the majority of whites posting here, is it because I am thinking racist thoughts? This is how many whites try making false equivalences with racism.

I thought you said there was no such thing as race?

I really don't think you want to try this with me son. Race is an artificial construct but as long as people are going to talk using race then we will use race in examples. Understand? Now I know you call yourself dong something but what you are about to do is make yourself answer a whole bunch of questions whites like you never answer,

Wow, those are some pretty intimidating letters you typed there, but I'm gonna go ahead and respond anyway. Ask whatever questions you like. I won't run and hide from them the way you do. Btw, unless you are Darth Vader, you can save that "son" talk, racist.

Well son when you can show me where I have specifically made statements that blacks are superior to whites then pethaps you can call me a racist.

 

[IM2]

I disagree. This person has major problems with racism. Non racist whites are able to handle a discussion of subject like this without doing all the things this person has done. ....

And there we go.


Since he disagrees with you, he must be racist.


And you claim to want dialog.

lol!!!

Well no that's not it. Besides this article is not my opinion but the facts from. a well known and respected WHITE Ph.D in the field who is relating her experiences in trying to talk to white people about racism. Maybe you read the article Corell? How about that?

The unsupported opinion of a PHD, is just as much an unsupported opinion as anyone else's.

It is not fact.


If there was any attempt at supporting data in the link, you should have led with that, instead of the normal race bullshit.


White Fragility is just another excuse for liberals to dismiss arguments they can't refute honestly.

Except the opinion is supported by years for workshops on racism with whites she has done .

This is the race and racism area. I think I can lead with race here if I so choose. If we were in another section your whining would have merit..

I would ask for a link to the study, but truth be told, I can't take anything that person says seriously.


Maybe to someone else peer reviewing it?

You should because you are exhibiting the behavior she cites she has seen as part of her work,

 

[BlackSand]

I haven't attacked anyone.
I was saying YOU have been under attack. So read that part again, knowing that.

See ... That's funny ... I don't even think that way ...

You (or anyone) say something ... We are having a discussion.
You start physically shooting at or beating me ... Then you (or anyone) would be attacking me.

If anyone wants to be verbally abusive as a form of attack ... I won't say that it doesn't have impact on the recipient.
I would suggest that the recipient may need to grow a tougher hide (be less fragile) in order to better weather the challenges they will face.
I am not fragile ... What you or someone else wants to express is not going to hurt me ... It may, or may not give me a better understanding of your position.

Perhaps that is because I can dissect and disregard comments that don't serve a proactive purpose.
I also enjoy the opportunity to redirect people when they get abusive ... If they show ugliness as the most acceptable means by which to express a point ... I will humor their aspirations to wallow in the gutter ... And explore our ability to venture the depths of depravity.

Shit ... I am not above the idea of meeting an opponent on common ground ... Nor too fragile to accept the challenge.
Perhaps this may all help you understand why I think the opinions expressed in the OP is a bunch of garbage.

There are all kinds of people in this world and I embrace the diversity that offers.
There are kind, compassionate and big hearted people like yourself ... That keep people like me in check.
Then there are people like me with a little grit that keep us all from slipping into a Carebear fantasy world that would leave us exposed and unprepared for more harsh encounters.

We can work together ... I won't insist it is done my way ... We need you too.

.

 

[OldLady]

Johnnie Turner says black people have to tell their stories. People have to hear the stories or they won't know. Instead of just bonking white people over the head for being ignorant racists, why not tell the stories that would help us SEE the other side. What happens here in discussion about race never gets us anywhere because no one's perspective gets changed. We can't walk in your shoes until you tell us what it is like on a daily basis. Don't scream it at us or exaggerate it. Just tell the stories.
Just a suggestion.

Doesnt matter what form the truth is put in. Whites just deny it. Any Black person that wastes time telling white people the truth be it in story form or any other form is a fool. The only way that it is worth the time is if you have a chance to educate other Blacks that may overhear the conversation.

The separatist speaks. This isn't your thread, A, since the OP is actually based on the hope of DIALOGUE.

I'm not a black separatist but what whites need to understand is why there may be blacks who feel this is needed. The black separatist isn't the same as the white one. The reasons for their beliefs are completely different. This is all part of whites learning to listen to our experience.

Don't get this conflated and do not let others here who will do so do it either.

I was speaking specifically to Aesclepius, who is quite openly a separatist, at least last time I talked with him. Did I make a judgment on that, or did you just worry that I was?

Neither. I am saying that the fact he is a separatist should not be conflated as the same as white separatists. Generally blacks who feel the need to separate is because we haven't been able to get along as races. They want separation because of white racism. White separatists do not hold those views. They feel they are superior and want to be separate because of that. So while I may not hold the same views, I am able to understand his reasoning for feeling as he does. Therefore to just haul off and call him a separatist is to deny him the experience he has had which made him feel that separation is the only solution. and it allows others to lump him in with white separatists like they all have the same reason for wanting to separate. Had there been no slavery, white racism or no continuing white racism, there would be no blacks wanting to separate. You cannot say that for whites who want to separate.

Therefore to just haul off and call him a separatist is to deny him the experience he has had which made him feel that separation is the only solution. and it allows others to lump him in with white separatists like they all have the same reason for wanting to separate.
"Just haul off and call him a separatist?" LOL. I doubt if A would lose any sleep over it. I could be wrong, though.
You know what, IM2? It is some fuckin tricky trying to have a conversation with you when you read stuff into my words that isn't there.
I agree with your explanation of how black and white separatists differ. Not sure how my remark is opening a can of worms, though.

 

[IM2]

Doesnt matter what form the truth is put in. Whites just deny it. Any Black person that wastes time telling white people the truth be it in story form or any other form is a fool. The only way that it is worth the time is if you have a chance to educate other Blacks that may overhear the conversation.

The separatist speaks. This isn't your thread, A, since the OP is actually based on the hope of DIALOGUE.

I'm not a black separatist but what whites need to understand is why there may be blacks who feel this is needed. The black separatist isn't the same as the white one. The reasons for their beliefs are completely different. This is all part of whites learning to listen to our experience.

Don't get this conflated and do not let others here who will do so do it either.

I was speaking specifically to Aesclepius, who is quite openly a separatist, at least last time I talked with him. Did I make a judgment on that, or did you just worry that I was?

Neither. I am saying that the fact he is a separatist should not be conflated as the same as white separatists. Generally blacks who feel the need to separate is because we haven't been able to get along as races. They want separation because of white racism. White separatists do not hold those views. They feel they are superior and want to be separate because of that. So while I may not hold the same views, I am able to understand his reasoning for feeling as he does. Therefore to just haul off and call him a separatist is to deny him the experience he has had which made him feel that separation is the only solution. and it allows others to lump him in with white separatists like they all have the same reason for wanting to separate. Had there been no slavery, white racism or no continuing white racism, there would be no blacks wanting to separate. You cannot say that for whites who want to separate.

Therefore to just haul off and call him a separatist is to deny him the experience he has had which made him feel that separation is the only solution. and it allows others to lump him in with white separatists like they all have the same reason for wanting to separate.
"Just haul off and call him a separatist?" LOL. I doubt if A would lose any sleep over it. I could be wrong, though.
You know what, IM2? It is some fuckin tricky trying to have a conversation with you when you read stuff into my words that isn't there.
I agree with your explanation of how black and white separatists differ. Not sure how my remark is opening a can of worms, though.

I wasn't reading so much into what you say as to how others treat what is said pertaining to him being a separatist. Fr many of these guys they will see him ini the same light as a white separatist and that's just not the case. Not say you said it was, just saying it out loud for others to see.

 

[Unkotare]

Doesnt matter what form the truth is put in. Whites just deny it. Any Black person that wastes time telling white people the truth be it in story form or any other form is a fool. The only way that it is worth the time is if you have a chance to educate other Blacks that may overhear the conversation.

The separatist speaks. This isn't your thread, A, since the OP is actually based on the hope of DIALOGUE.

I'm not a black separatist but what whites need to understand is why there may be blacks who feel this is needed. The black separatist isn't the same as the white one. The reasons for their beliefs are completely different. This is all part of whites learning to listen to our experience.

Don't get this conflated and do not let others here who will do so do it either.

I was speaking specifically to Aesclepius, who is quite openly a separatist, at least last time I talked with him. Did I make a judgment on that, or did you just worry that I was?

Neither. I am saying that the fact he is a separatist should not be conflated as the same as white separatists. Generally blacks who feel the need to separate is because we haven't been able to get along as races. They want separation because of white racism. White separatists do not hold those views. They feel they are superior and want to be separate because of that. So while I may not hold the same views, I am able to understand his reasoning for feeling as he does. Therefore to just haul off and call him a separatist is to deny him the experience he has had which made him feel that separation is the only solution. and it allows others to lump him in with white separatists like they all have the same reason for wanting to separate. Had there been no slavery, white racism or no continuing white racism, there would be no blacks wanting to separate. You cannot say that for whites who want to separate.

Therefore to just haul off and call him a separatist is to deny him the experience he has had which made him feel that separation is the only solution. and it allows others to lump him in with white separatists like they all have the same reason for wanting to separate.
"Just haul off and call him a separatist?" LOL. I doubt if A would lose any sleep over it. I could be wrong, though.
You know what, IM2? It is some fuckin tricky trying to have a conversation with you when you read stuff into my words that isn't there.
I agree with your explanation of how black and white separatists differ. Not sure how my remark is opening a can of worms, though.

Why would you expect a reasonable discussion with an unrepentant racist like that?

 

[Unkotare]

[re:anti-black violence]

Where is it?
IF you want to be fair, and I know that is your ultimate goal, you have to add blacks, Asians, Native Americans, and virtually every other race and nationality are prejudiced in favor of people like themselves.

"Let's just get this out of the way: The fact is, if you're black in America, you've likely said, thought, or done something racist. It's just a fact."

Yeah lets just get this out of the way. Blacks react to the racism we get. Things are not exactly the same by race Markle. If we think a certain way about whites, it is because of what whites have continually done to us for almost 400 years. Whites always fail to understand this, it'.s like whites choose to have amnesia.

So what you are doing is exactly what the writer describes as it pertains to white fragility. So if we want to be fair we try understanding how blacks, Asians, native Americans and others feel about the consistent racism they have gotten from whites instead of trying to say that we all have thought racist things like we all have he same experiences.

Think about it, if I think bad things about whites after I read some of the stuff from the majority of whites posting here, is it because I am thinking racist thoughts? This is how many whites try making false equivalences with racism.

I thought you said there was no such thing as race?

I really don't think you want to try this with me son. Race is an artificial construct but as long as people are going to talk using race then we will use race in examples. Understand? Now I know you call yourself dong something but what you are about to do is make yourself answer a whole bunch of questions whites like you never answer,

Wow, those are some pretty intimidating letters you typed there, but I'm gonna go ahead and respond anyway. Ask whatever questions you like. I won't run and hide from them the way you do. Btw, unless you are Darth Vader, you can save that "son" talk, racist.

Well son when you can show me where I have specifically made statements that blacks are superior to whites then pethaps you can call me a racist.

That's it? That's supposed to be intimidating? Just another empty denial of what everyone already knows about you? Underwhelming.

 

[BlackSand]

I wasn't reading so much into what you say as to how others treat what is said pertaining to him being a separatist. Fr many of these guys they will see him ini the same light as a white separatist and that's just not the case. Not say you said it was, just saying it out loud for others to see.

Perhaps he would disagree with you ... He admittedly uses matters of race as a conductor and excuse for his abusive behavior.
If you are attempting to discount his aspirations to suit your purpose ... It is quite possible you are not doing him any favors.

I know I cannot speak for him ... It just seems that you intend on taking a different direction with his goals than he does.
How about you let him speak to his intentions ... And stop making excuses.

I mean face it ... It isn't like your desire to establish a difference in separatism on the basis of race ... Isn't quite telling as to what your intentions are ...

.

 

[IM2]

I haven't attacked anyone.
I was saying YOU have been under attack. So read that part again, knowing that.

See ... That's funny ... I don't even think that way ...

You (or anyone) say something ... We are having a discussion.
You start physically shooting at or beating me ... Then you (or anyone) would be attacking me.

If anyone wants to be verbally abusive as a form of attack ... I won't say that it doesn't have impact on the recipient.
I would suggest that the recipient may need to grow a tougher hide (be less fragile) in order to better weather the challenges they will face.
I am not fragile ... What you or someone else wants to express is not going to hurt me ... It may, or may not give me a better understanding of your position.

Perhaps that is because I can dissect and disregard comments that don't serve a proactive purpose.
I also enjoy the opportunity to redirect people when they get abusive ... If they show ugliness as the most acceptable means by which to express a point ... I will humor their aspirations to wallow in the gutter ... And explore our ability to venture the depths of depravity.

Shit ... I am not above the idea of meeting an opponent on common ground ... Nor too fragile to accept the challenge.
Perhaps this may all help you understand why I think the opinions expressed in the OP is a bunch of garbage.

There are all kinds of people in this world and I embrace the diversity that offers.
There are kind, compassionate and big hearted people like yourself ... That keep people like me in check.
Then there are people like me with a little grit that keep us all from slipping into a Carebear fantasy world that would leave us exposed and unprepared for more harsh encounters.

We can work together ... I won't insist it is done my way ... We need you too.

.

I don't know if what you have is grit. Vut the issue here is how whites react to cinversatons about racism. That's what this is all avoout. It is about me saying wite racism exists oday wiyhot sone whitesayng its vullshit according tho them and that how they see it shuld be the way its seen. It's abuot not telling some ofcolor who is reayng heir expernces on this to g o rrwead Thomas Sowell to et a different erspective on whar ti==you have seen and experienced yourself. That is what the OP is avout, whites not doing that, but I nstad listening to our expernces honestly not sayig that yo are wiling to listen after you have said yo won't g ive this any vonsideration ot you won't

While I appreciate what you have said, whites have for the better part of 2.5 centuries beat us over the head about how worthless we are. And we have asked for that to stop. It doesn't. So then when we talk to whites, once again they try establishing the rules we have to follow in order to for them to listen. And that's one of the main problems with this kind of discussion. Whites need to hear the anger and in some cases the outright hate to understand exactly what their racism has done to people. I think it's highly unfair for whites to tell us that they won't listen unless we say it to them how they want to hear it. I know you mean no harm here old lady but that is exactly what you have done. We have told you what it was like for us for at least 241 years. We have been screamed at and killed for trying to do it as well. So in my view if screaming is warranted that's what should be done. Therefore let me help you see what you have just done,.

In other words ... Y'all need to shut up and let the angry blacks be angry ... Because their angry is way more important than your angry.

.

This is your first post. Yet the article has nothing to do with what you are saying. This is not about letting blacks vent and whites just be quiet. It is exactly about how you could make the very statement you made in that post. It is about how whites react when blacks speak out on racism. And most of the time we get what you posted right here. That's what the OP was about and that is the behavior you have shown. For example if I came up t you and said I am mad because whites have continued practicing racism against us as they have dine for over 300 years. What anger do you have that based on anything like that to consider equal in weight done to you by non whites?

And what would your response be to that comment?

What problem ...

I'll just be happy when we can move forward and explore/embrace the opportunities of what we can accomplish together.
If y'all want to stay stuck in the last two centuries, talking about who is angry with crap some of us had no part in and don't give a rat's ass about ...

Than all I can say is that is less than productive and a waste of time.

So then how in the hell can you even make such a comment when we have seen things like Charlottesville, or other white racist protests since that time? Are you going to be stupid enough to use that same old dumb ass attempt of a false equivalence with Black Lives Matter? So how in the. hell can you talk about staying stuck in the last 2 centuries when the shit is happening in his one right now? Huh?

That's the point of the OP. How whites want to always tell us how it doesn't happen after we express ourselves. And then you think that what you say has equal weight when we see that what you say has no basis in truth. And you call that grit. HA!

 

[IM2]

Yeah lets just get this out of the way. Blacks react to the racism we get. Things are not exactly the same by race Markle. If we think a certain way about whites, it is because of what whites have continually done to us for almost 400 years. Whites always fail to understand this, it'.s like whites choose to have amnesia.

So what you are doing is exactly what the writer describes as it pertains to white fragility. So if we want to be fair we try understanding how blacks, Asians, native Americans and others feel about the consistent racism they have gotten from whites instead of trying to say that we all have thought racist things like we all have he same experiences.

Think about it, if I think bad things about whites after I read some of the stuff from the majority of whites posting here, is it because I am thinking racist thoughts? This is how many whites try making false equivalences with racism.

I thought you said there was no such thing as race?

I really don't think you want to try this with me son. Race is an artificial construct but as long as people are going to talk using race then we will use race in examples. Understand? Now I know you call yourself dong something but what you are about to do is make yourself answer a whole bunch of questions whites like you never answer,

Wow, those are some pretty intimidating letters you typed there, but I'm gonna go ahead and respond anyway. Ask whatever questions you like. I won't run and hide from them the way you do. Btw, unless you are Darth Vader, you can save that "son" talk, racist.

Well son when you can show me where I have specifically made statements that blacks are superior to whites then pethaps you can call me a racist.

That's it? That's supposed to be intimidating? Just another empty denial of what everyone already knows about you? Underwhelming.

Everybody doesn't know anything. You assume. Learn the difference. Now show me an example of where I have specifically said blacks are superior to whites.

 

[OldLady]

The separatist speaks. This isn't your thread, A, since the OP is actually based on the hope of DIALOGUE.

I'm not a black separatist but what whites need to understand is why there may be blacks who feel this is needed. The black separatist isn't the same as the white one. The reasons for their beliefs are completely different. This is all part of whites learning to listen to our experience.

Don't get this conflated and do not let others here who will do so do it either.

I was speaking specifically to Aesclepius, who is quite openly a separatist, at least last time I talked with him. Did I make a judgment on that, or did you just worry that I was?

Neither. I am saying that the fact he is a separatist should not be conflated as the same as white separatists. Generally blacks who feel the need to separate is because we haven't been able to get along as races. They want separation because of white racism. White separatists do not hold those views. They feel they are superior and want to be separate because of that. So while I may not hold the same views, I am able to understand his reasoning for feeling as he does. Therefore to just haul off and call him a separatist is to deny him the experience he has had which made him feel that separation is the only solution. and it allows others to lump him in with white separatists like they all have the same reason for wanting to separate. Had there been no slavery, white racism or no continuing white racism, there would be no blacks wanting to separate. You cannot say that for whites who want to separate.

Therefore to just haul off and call him a separatist is to deny him the experience he has had which made him feel that separation is the only solution. and it allows others to lump him in with white separatists like they all have the same reason for wanting to separate.
"Just haul off and call him a separatist?" LOL. I doubt if A would lose any sleep over it. I could be wrong, though.
You know what, IM2? It is some fuckin tricky trying to have a conversation with you when you read stuff into my words that isn't there.
I agree with your explanation of how black and white separatists differ. Not sure how my remark is opening a can of worms, though.

Why would you expect a reasonable discussion with an unrepentant racist like that?

I don't think he's a racist and we have had a fairly reasonable discussion, as far it goes.
What makes you think he's a racist? Where has he indicated he considers blacks to be superior?

 

[Paul Essien]

[
I don't think he's a racist and we have had a fairly reasonable discussion, as far it goes.
What makes you think he's a racist? Where has he indicated he considers blacks to be superior?

 

[BlackSand]

That's the point of the OP. How whites want to always tell us how it doesn't happen after we express ourselves. And then you think that what you say has equal weight when we see that what you say has no basis in truth. And you call that grit. HA!

I don't balance what I say on any scale that compares what you are trying to express to a matter of importance.
That is some mythical garbage you are stuck on ... Closely associated to the garbage contained in the OP.

While your rants are amusing, albeit less than productive at accomplishing anything worthwhile ... Your inconsistent points addressing loosely connected occurrences ... Is a prime example of how your intentions are doomed from the get-go.

To say something, is simply to utter the words and say it ... It doesn't make it fact, nor does it constitute compliance.

Better yet ... If you would like me to fix problems like Charlottesville ... Or you intend to make every white person responsible for the actions of one dumbass ... Then put me in charge ... I will fix it (I have the grit and am not scared to) ... But I am pretty sure you won't like it, because it damn sure isn't going to be holding your hand or giving you shoulder to cry on.

.

 

[Unkotare]

I thought you said there was no such thing as race?

I really don't think you want to try this with me son. Race is an artificial construct but as long as people are going to talk using race then we will use race in examples. Understand? Now I know you call yourself dong something but what you are about to do is make yourself answer a whole bunch of questions whites like you never answer,

Wow, those are some pretty intimidating letters you typed there, but I'm gonna go ahead and respond anyway. Ask whatever questions you like. I won't run and hide from them the way you do. Btw, unless you are Darth Vader, you can save that "son" talk, racist.

Well son when you can show me where I have specifically made statements that blacks are superior to whites then pethaps you can call me a racist.

That's it? That's supposed to be intimidating? Just another empty denial of what everyone already knows about you? Underwhelming.

Everybody doesn't know anything. .

Everyone who has read your posts knows you are a filthy racist.

 

[IM2]

Telling whites to stop their racism is not hate. You can love someone and fell them to stop doing a bad behavior.

So do we just ignore terrorism and then it goes away? How about we ignore North Korea? It will too then just go away. How about we ignore child abuse? If we do that it will go away too. Or maybe we ignore domestic violence, if we just don't talk about it, it will go away? What about sexual assault? Maybe we just ignore that too and it will just go away. Funny how there is only one thing where people are told if you just shut up it will stop. Everything else is speak up so we can change. And that's racism by whites. And it is always someone white and racist telling us how we should just ignore it.

 

[Paul Essien]

Everyone who has read your posts knows you are a filthy racist.

Can I play devils advocate ?

Let's say (for arguments sake) he IM2 is racist and throw me into the mix and let's say I'm racist too.

Now what ?

Explain to me how that affects you or white ppl in general ?

 

[IM2]

That's the point of the OP. How whites want to always tell us how it doesn't happen after we express ourselves. And then you think that what you say has equal weight when we see that what you say has no basis in truth. And you call that grit. HA!

I don't balance what I say on any scale that compares what you are trying to express to a matter of importance.
That is some mythical garbage you are stuck on ... Closely associated to the garbage contained in the OP.

While your rants are amusing, albeit less than productive at accomplishing anything worthwhile ... Your inconsistent points addressing loosely connected occurrences ... Is a prime example of how your intentions are doomed from the get-go.

To say something, is simply to utter the words and say it ... It doesn't make it fact, nor does it constitute compliance.

Better yet ... If you would like me to fix problems like Charlottesville ... Or you intend to make every white person responsible for the actions of one dumbass ... Then put me in charge ... I will fix it (I have the grit and am not scared to) ... But I am pretty sure you won't like it, because it damn sure isn't going to be holding your hand or giving you shoulder to cry on.

.

So while you are doing your level best to obfuscate let me skip all of your silly shit.:

Charlottesville was not the result of one white, dumb ass. It was about groups of whites and hey were national. So stop whining/crying about someone blaming all whites for everything when there were whites out there fighting against the racists. But the reason I made mention of Charlottesville is because you decided to make claims of how racism is non existent now. It' snot, so then any time you feel like talking about how people are wrong for talking out on race because it is non existent you are wrong.. Each time you try conflating attempts to speak out on racism by whites as hate because you say its n the past, you are wrong. Each time you decide to talk about leaving people in the past because racism is gone, you are wrong.

The issue presented here is more complex than you appear able to understand. You see the words white and fragility and think it's an attack on whites. That it is not. It is about a response coming from whites that ignores structural problems surrounding racism that is most often unconscious and without any malice or even racism.

White Fragility and the Rules of Engagement

By Robin DeAngelo

I am white. I write and teach about what it means to be white in a society that proclaims race meaningless, yet remains deeply divided by race. A fundamental but very challenging part of my work is moving white people from an individual understanding of racism—i.e. only some people are racist and those people are bad—to a structural understanding. A structural understanding recognizes racism as a default system that institutionalizes an unequal distribution of resources and power between white people and people of color. This system is historic, taken for granted, deeply embedded, and it works to the benefit of whites.

The two most effective beliefs that prevent us (whites) from seeing racism as a system are:

1. that racists are bad people and
2. that racism is conscious dislike;

If we are well-intended and do not consciously dislike people of color, we cannot be racist. This is why it is so common for white people to cite their friends and family members as evidence of their lack of racism. However, when you understand racism as a system of structured relations into which we are all socialized, you understand that intentions are irrelevant. And when you understand how socialization works, you understand that much of racial bias is unconscious. Negative messages about people of color circulate all around us. While having friends of color is better than not having them, it doesn’t change the overall system or prevent racism from surfacing in our relationships. The societal default is white superiority and we are fed a steady diet of it 24/7. To not actively seek to interrupt racism is to internalize and accept it.
.

White Fragility: Why It’s So Hard to Talk to White People About Racism

By Robin DeAngelo

This concept came out of my on-going experience leading discussions on race, racism, white privilege and white supremacy with primarily white audiences. It became clear over time that white people have extremely low thresholds for enduring any discomfort associated with challenges to our racial worldviews.

We can manage the first round of challenge by ending the discussion through platitudes—usually something that starts with “People just need to,” or “Race doesn’t really have any meaning to me,” or “Everybody’s racist.” Scratch any further on that surface, however, and we fall apart.

Socialized into a deeply internalized sense of superiority and entitlement that we are either not consciously aware of or can never admit to ourselves, we become highly fragile in conversations about race. We experience a challenge to our racial worldview as a challenge to our very identities as good, moral people. It also challenges our sense of rightful place in the hierarchy. Thus, we perceive any attempt to connect us to the system of racism as a very unsettling and unfair moral offense.

White Fragility: Why It's So Hard to Talk to White People About Racism -

White Fragility and the Question of Trust
When denial of white fragility is confronted, it becomes a challenge to our rightful place, an unfair moral offense, creating defensiveness rather than reflection.

Dr. Robin DeAngelo

I am a racial justice educator. On a daily basis I lead primarily white groups in discussions of race and racism.

A significant but challenging aspect of my work is giving white people feedback on our inevitable and often unaware racist patterns. This has led to my identification of what I term white fragility – the inability of white people to handle challenges to our racial worldviews, identities, or positions. Because we live in a society that protects and insulates us from these challenges, we have not had to build the stamina to withstand them. Mainstream culture, schools, media, institutions and ideologies center us and reinforce a racially limited (and racist) worldview, engendering a deeply internalized sense of racial superiority and entitlement. At the same time, we are taught that to feel racially superior is bad and immoral. This dichotomy results in the need to aggressively deny our internalized superiority to ourselves and others. On the rare occasions in which this denial is confronted, it comes as a kind of shock to the system; a challenge to our rightful place in the hierarchy and an unfair moral offense, compelling us to defend rather than reflect. These are some of the dynamics racial justice educators must navigate when seeking to raise white consciousness about what racism really is and how it works.

White folks: its time to move forward! All white people raised in Western society are conditioned into a white supremacist worldview because it is the bedrock of our society and its institutions. Regardless of whether a parent told you that everyone was equal, the poster in the hall of your white suburban school proclaimed to value diversity, you have traveled abroad, or have people of color in your workplace or family, the ubiquitous socializing power of white supremacy cannot be avoided. The messages circulate 24/7 and have little to nothing to do with intentions, awareness, or agreement. Entering the conversation with this understanding is incredibly liberating because it allows us to focus on how—rather than if—our racism is manifesting. When we move beyond the good/bad binary (racists are bad so good people cannot participate in racism) we can actually become eager to identify our racist patterns, because interrupting those patterns becomes more important than managing how we think we look to others. I repeat: Stopping our racist patterns becomes more important than working to convince others that we don’t have them. We have them and people of color already know we have them; our efforts to appear otherwise are not convincing.

White Fragility and the Question of Trust -

 

[Unkotare]

I'm not a black separatist but what whites need to understand is why there may be blacks who feel this is needed. The black separatist isn't the same as the white one. The reasons for their beliefs are completely different. This is all part of whites learning to listen to our experience.

Don't get this conflated and do not let others here who will do so do it either.

I was speaking specifically to Aesclepius, who is quite openly a separatist, at least last time I talked with him. Did I make a judgment on that, or did you just worry that I was?

Neither. I am saying that the fact he is a separatist should not be conflated as the same as white separatists. Generally blacks who feel the need to separate is because we haven't been able to get along as races. They want separation because of white racism. White separatists do not hold those views. They feel they are superior and want to be separate because of that. So while I may not hold the same views, I am able to understand his reasoning for feeling as he does. Therefore to just haul off and call him a separatist is to deny him the experience he has had which made him feel that separation is the only solution. and it allows others to lump him in with white separatists like they all have the same reason for wanting to separate. Had there been no slavery, white racism or no continuing white racism, there would be no blacks wanting to separate. You cannot say that for whites who want to separate.

Therefore to just haul off and call him a separatist is to deny him the experience he has had which made him feel that separation is the only solution. and it allows others to lump him in with white separatists like they all have the same reason for wanting to separate.
"Just haul off and call him a separatist?" LOL. I doubt if A would lose any sleep over it. I could be wrong, though.
You know what, IM2? It is some fuckin tricky trying to have a conversation with you when you read stuff into my words that isn't there.
I agree with your explanation of how black and white separatists differ. Not sure how my remark is opening a can of worms, though.

Why would you expect a reasonable discussion with an unrepentant racist like that?

I don't think he's a racist and we have had a fairly reasonable discussion, as far it goes.
What makes you think he's a racist? Where has he indicated he considers blacks to be superior?

Read the rest of his posts.