Another Reason To Abolish The IRS

[thereisnospoon]

This is tyranny, pure and simple.

Leaves you numb Store owner still fighting IRS after feds seized his 107G account Fox News

Civil forfeiture is as unconstitutional as it gets. It MUST be stopped.
From the federal government down to local towns, authorities are arbitrarily and without due process stealing the assets of law abiding citizens. Their crime? Being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
For example....A man driving across country was stopped by state police. The man made the mistake of answering "are you carrying cash with you in your vehicle?"....When the motorist told the trooper he had over $2000 in the car, the cop demanded he be permitted to search the vehicle. The cop took the money and claimed civil forfeiture. And why did the trooper do this. Because according to the driver,The cop told him no one carries that kind of money unless they were doing something illegal.The motorist tried to explain that he was on his way to to California to start a new job. His father had given him the money to get his life in CA started. The cop would have none of it.
Here is a clip from John Oliver's "Last week tonight"....

 

[thereisnospoon]

I hate taxes as much as the next guy, but you can't seriously be contemplating abolishing the government agency responsible for collecting the majority of US federal government revenue.

What's your solution? Dissolution of the US federal government? Or perhaps taxpayers should just send cheques to the US Treasury Dept., and that would become the new de facto IRS?

Where do these ideas come from? Enlighten me, please, because to me this seems like angry boys--clueless about how the world works and remiss to the incredible privileges we enjoy--responding to sporadic injustices with patent absurdity like "abolish the IRS".

Great idea. Abolish it and then what?

As it is exists and operates accountable to no one, the IRS has become in effect a shadow government. Only the IRS has no restrictions. The IRS Tax Court does not adhere to Constitutional law. In fact, as far as the IRS is concerned the person accused is guilty unless they can prove they are innocent. So if the IRS claims a person has not paid their taxes, that's it. And it is VERY difficult to win a case against the IRS.
This must end. The IRS must be abolished and a new simpler agency must be established. One that is responsive and subject to the review of congress and a civilian review panel.

 

[S.J.]

I hate taxes as much as the next guy, but you can't seriously be contemplating abolishing the government agency responsible for collecting the majority of US federal government revenue.

What's your solution? Dissolution of the US federal government? Or perhaps taxpayers should just send cheques to the US Treasury Dept., and that would become the new de facto IRS?

Where do these ideas come from? Enlighten me, please, because to me this seems like angry boys--clueless about how the world works and remiss to the incredible privileges we enjoy--responding to sporadic injustices with patent absurdity like "abolish the IRS".

Great idea. Abolish it and then what?

As it is exists and operates accountable to no one, the IRS has become in effect a shadow government. Only the IRS has no restrictions. The IRS Tax Court does not adhere to Constitutional law. In fact, as far as the IRS is concerned the person accused is guilty unless they can prove they are innocent. So if the IRS claims a person has not paid their taxes, that's it. And it is VERY difficult to win a case against the IRS.
This must end. The IRS must be abolished and a new simpler agency must be established. One that is responsive and subject to the review of congress and a civilian review panel.

Even if you prove you are innocent it doesn't matter. When you respond with your proof, they play dumb, and the person you dealt with is no longer available and they DON'T give out their names. It's an extortion racket and it has to be stopped.

 

[syonidv]

OKTexas, thereisnospoon: Why make the drastic leap from "end civil forfeiture" to "abolish the IRS"?

Civil forfeiture laws clearly extend beyond the IRS. Abolishing the IRS and replacing it with another agency is pointless if the replacement is at liberty to exercise the same abuses.

If your grievance is with civil forfeiture laws specifically, why not spend your time and energy advocating for the reform (or complete repeal) of these laws? Why bulldoze an entire government agency that happens to be using the laws to ill effect?

Re progressive taxation: I have to agree with Skylar that progressive taxation is the friend of the middle class. If you're making anywhere near the median salary (around $35K/year), I guarantee you you're better off with the current system if the US government wants to maintain its current revenues.

Also, just in case it has to be said: the idea that the US government could default on its debt and the US would come out smelling like roses on the other side is pure lunacy. If that default happens, it wipes out civil infrastructure, pension funds, banks, capital markets, export markets, college endowments, Medicare and Medicaid funds, municipal payrolls, and it brings the hulking wreck of western society down around us. The fallout will make the Great Depression look like a cakewalk by comparison, I kid you not. If you think you're going to make it out of that rout of blood, disease, starvation, and chaos better off than you are now...

I mention this because it seems some people are under the happy delusion that abolishing the IRS would be a means of expunging US public debt. I'd advise any sensible person to treat this belief as what it is: a delusion.

Where are you getting your numbers from?

The2ndAmendment made it up. He does that. It's his thing.

My numbers come from primary sources, such as the Grace Commission.

Grace Commission Report PPSS

It's good that you have a source, but the report is from 1984 and it assumes 1984 interest rates, which were approximately 20 times higher (that's not an exaggeration) than present-day interest rates.

Like it or not, you need the IRS.

If you can cite a source of similar rigor showing that the money goes elsewhere, since 1984 you can lecture me.

I posted a link in Reply #5 that gives a dollar-by-dollar breakdown. The numbers come straight from the CBO and the US Treasury. Unless your claim is that the US federal government is lying in its own financial statements, I don't know what source could possibly be more rigorous.

 

[boedicca]

I hate taxes as much as the next guy, but you can't seriously be contemplating abolishing the government agency responsible for collecting the majority of US federal government revenue.

What's your solution? Dissolution of the US federal government? Or perhaps taxpayers should just send cheques to the US Treasury Dept., and that would become the new de facto IRS?

Where do these ideas come from? Enlighten me, please, because to me this seems like angry boys--clueless about how the world works and remiss to the incredible privileges we enjoy--responding to sporadic injustices with patent absurdity like "abolish the IRS".

Great idea. Abolish it and then what?

Your strawman is burning, bub.

 

[syonidv]

I hate taxes as much as the next guy, but you can't seriously be contemplating abolishing the government agency responsible for collecting the majority of US federal government revenue.

What's your solution? Dissolution of the US federal government? Or perhaps taxpayers should just send cheques to the US Treasury Dept., and that would become the new de facto IRS?

Where do these ideas come from? Enlighten me, please, because to me this seems like angry boys--clueless about how the world works and remiss to the incredible privileges we enjoy--responding to sporadic injustices with patent absurdity like "abolish the IRS".

Great idea. Abolish it and then what?

Your strawman is burning, bub.

How so? You're going to have to elaborate a bit. TYIA

 

[OKTexas]

OKTexas, thereisnospoon: Why make the drastic leap from "end civil forfeiture" to "abolish the IRS"?

Civil forfeiture laws clearly extend beyond the IRS. Abolishing the IRS and replacing it with another agency is pointless if the replacement is at liberty to exercise the same abuses.

If your grievance is with civil forfeiture laws specifically, why not spend your time and energy advocating for the reform (or complete repeal) of these laws? Why bulldoze an entire government agency that happens to be using the laws to ill effect?

Re progressive taxation: I have to agree with Skylar that progressive taxation is the friend of the middle class. If you're making anywhere near the median salary (around $35K/year), I guarantee you you're better off with the current system if the US government wants to maintain its current revenues.

Also, just in case it has to be said: the idea that the US government could default on its debt and the US would come out smelling like roses on the other side is pure lunacy. If that default happens, it wipes out civil infrastructure, pension funds, banks, capital markets, export markets, college endowments, Medicare and Medicaid funds, municipal payrolls, and it brings the hulking wreck of western society down around us. The fallout will make the Great Depression look like a cakewalk by comparison, I kid you not. If you think you're going to make it out of that rout of blood, disease, starvation, and chaos better off than you are now...

I mention this because it seems some people are under the happy delusion that abolishing the IRS would be a means of expunging US public debt. I'd advise any sensible person to treat this belief as what it is: a delusion.

Where are you getting your numbers from?

The2ndAmendment made it up. He does that. It's his thing.

My numbers come from primary sources, such as the Grace Commission.

Grace Commission Report PPSS

It's good that you have a source, but the report is from 1984 and it assumes 1984 interest rates, which were approximately 20 times higher (that's not an exaggeration) than present-day interest rates.

Like it or not, you need the IRS.

If you can cite a source of similar rigor showing that the money goes elsewhere, since 1984 you can lecture me.

I posted a link in Reply #5 that gives a dollar-by-dollar breakdown. The numbers come straight from the CBO and the US Treasury. Unless your claim is that the US federal government is lying in its own financial statements, I don't know what source could possibly be more rigorous.

Now you're trying to put words in my mouth, maybe you should review the posts I've made so far and exactly what I've argued.

 

[syonidv]

OKTexas, thereisnospoon: Why make the drastic leap from "end civil forfeiture" to "abolish the IRS"?

Civil forfeiture laws clearly extend beyond the IRS. Abolishing the IRS and replacing it with another agency is pointless if the replacement is at liberty to exercise the same abuses.

If your grievance is with civil forfeiture laws specifically, why not spend your time and energy advocating for the reform (or complete repeal) of these laws? Why bulldoze an entire government agency that happens to be using the laws to ill effect?

Re progressive taxation: I have to agree with Skylar that progressive taxation is the friend of the middle class. If you're making anywhere near the median salary (around $35K/year), I guarantee you you're better off with the current system if the US government wants to maintain its current revenues.

Also, just in case it has to be said: the idea that the US government could default on its debt and the US would come out smelling like roses on the other side is pure lunacy. If that default happens, it wipes out civil infrastructure, pension funds, banks, capital markets, export markets, college endowments, Medicare and Medicaid funds, municipal payrolls, and it brings the hulking wreck of western society down around us. The fallout will make the Great Depression look like a cakewalk by comparison, I kid you not. If you think you're going to make it out of that rout of blood, disease, starvation, and chaos better off than you are now...

I mention this because it seems some people are under the happy delusion that abolishing the IRS would be a means of expunging US public debt. I'd advise any sensible person to treat this belief as what it is: a delusion.

The2ndAmendment made it up. He does that. It's his thing.

My numbers come from primary sources, such as the Grace Commission.

Grace Commission Report PPSS

It's good that you have a source, but the report is from 1984 and it assumes 1984 interest rates, which were approximately 20 times higher (that's not an exaggeration) than present-day interest rates.

Like it or not, you need the IRS.

If you can cite a source of similar rigor showing that the money goes elsewhere, since 1984 you can lecture me.

I posted a link in Reply #5 that gives a dollar-by-dollar breakdown. The numbers come straight from the CBO and the US Treasury. Unless your claim is that the US federal government is lying in its own financial statements, I don't know what source could possibly be more rigorous.

Now you're trying to put words in my mouth, maybe you should review the posts I've made so far and exactly what I've argued.

You've argued that civil asset forfeiture should be abolished. But we're in a thread where the OP is about civil asset forfeiture, with the title "Another Reason to Abolish the IRS". I expected that if you disagreed, you'd disclaim "Let's abolish CAF without abolishing the IRS," which you evidently didn't consider necessary.

At any rate: you're not in favour of abolishing the IRS; ignore the question. Sorry to have jumped the gun.

 

[AntiParty]

This is tyranny, pure and simple.

Leaves you numb Store owner still fighting IRS after feds seized his 107G account Fox News

FOX s file PunditFact

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

This is tyranny, pure and simple.

Leaves you numb Store owner still fighting IRS after feds seized his 107G account Fox News

No, what leaves one numb is the ignorance and stupidity exhibited by you and most others on the right.

 

[OKTexas]

OKTexas, thereisnospoon: Why make the drastic leap from "end civil forfeiture" to "abolish the IRS"?

Civil forfeiture laws clearly extend beyond the IRS. Abolishing the IRS and replacing it with another agency is pointless if the replacement is at liberty to exercise the same abuses.

If your grievance is with civil forfeiture laws specifically, why not spend your time and energy advocating for the reform (or complete repeal) of these laws? Why bulldoze an entire government agency that happens to be using the laws to ill effect?

Re progressive taxation: I have to agree with Skylar that progressive taxation is the friend of the middle class. If you're making anywhere near the median salary (around $35K/year), I guarantee you you're better off with the current system if the US government wants to maintain its current revenues.

Also, just in case it has to be said: the idea that the US government could default on its debt and the US would come out smelling like roses on the other side is pure lunacy. If that default happens, it wipes out civil infrastructure, pension funds, banks, capital markets, export markets, college endowments, Medicare and Medicaid funds, municipal payrolls, and it brings the hulking wreck of western society down around us. The fallout will make the Great Depression look like a cakewalk by comparison, I kid you not. If you think you're going to make it out of that rout of blood, disease, starvation, and chaos better off than you are now...

I mention this because it seems some people are under the happy delusion that abolishing the IRS would be a means of expunging US public debt. I'd advise any sensible person to treat this belief as what it is: a delusion.

My numbers come from primary sources, such as the Grace Commission.

Grace Commission Report PPSS

It's good that you have a source, but the report is from 1984 and it assumes 1984 interest rates, which were approximately 20 times higher (that's not an exaggeration) than present-day interest rates.

Like it or not, you need the IRS.

If you can cite a source of similar rigor showing that the money goes elsewhere, since 1984 you can lecture me.

I posted a link in Reply #5 that gives a dollar-by-dollar breakdown. The numbers come straight from the CBO and the US Treasury. Unless your claim is that the US federal government is lying in its own financial statements, I don't know what source could possibly be more rigorous.

Now you're trying to put words in my mouth, maybe you should review the posts I've made so far and exactly what I've argued.

You've argued that civil asset forfeiture should be abolished. But we're in a thread where the OP is about civil asset forfeiture, with the title "Another Reason to Abolish the IRS". I expected that if you disagreed, you'd disclaim "Let's abolish CAF without abolishing the IRS," which you evidently didn't consider necessary.

At any rate: you're not in favour of abolishing the IRS; ignore the question. Sorry to have jumped the gun.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of the IRS, congress has given them way too much power and they should have much more oversight, but I don't see a way to do away with them in the foreseeable future.

 

[S.J.]

This is tyranny, pure and simple.

Leaves you numb Store owner still fighting IRS after feds seized his 107G account Fox News

No, what leaves one numb is the ignorance and stupidity exhibited by you and most others on the right.

Wow, what a brilliant argument you've presented there.

 

[AntiParty]

OKTexas, thereisnospoon: Why make the drastic leap from "end civil forfeiture" to "abolish the IRS"?

Civil forfeiture laws clearly extend beyond the IRS. Abolishing the IRS and replacing it with another agency is pointless if the replacement is at liberty to exercise the same abuses.

If your grievance is with civil forfeiture laws specifically, why not spend your time and energy advocating for the reform (or complete repeal) of these laws? Why bulldoze an entire government agency that happens to be using the laws to ill effect?

Re progressive taxation: I have to agree with Skylar that progressive taxation is the friend of the middle class. If you're making anywhere near the median salary (around $35K/year), I guarantee you you're better off with the current system if the US government wants to maintain its current revenues.

Also, just in case it has to be said: the idea that the US government could default on its debt and the US would come out smelling like roses on the other side is pure lunacy. If that default happens, it wipes out civil infrastructure, pension funds, banks, capital markets, export markets, college endowments, Medicare and Medicaid funds, municipal payrolls, and it brings the hulking wreck of western society down around us. The fallout will make the Great Depression look like a cakewalk by comparison, I kid you not. If you think you're going to make it out of that rout of blood, disease, starvation, and chaos better off than you are now...

I mention this because it seems some people are under the happy delusion that abolishing the IRS would be a means of expunging US public debt. I'd advise any sensible person to treat this belief as what it is: a delusion.

It's good that you have a source, but the report is from 1984 and it assumes 1984 interest rates, which were approximately 20 times higher (that's not an exaggeration) than present-day interest rates.

Like it or not, you need the IRS.

If you can cite a source of similar rigor showing that the money goes elsewhere, since 1984 you can lecture me.

I posted a link in Reply #5 that gives a dollar-by-dollar breakdown. The numbers come straight from the CBO and the US Treasury. Unless your claim is that the US federal government is lying in its own financial statements, I don't know what source could possibly be more rigorous.

Now you're trying to put words in my mouth, maybe you should review the posts I've made so far and exactly what I've argued.

You've argued that civil asset forfeiture should be abolished. But we're in a thread where the OP is about civil asset forfeiture, with the title "Another Reason to Abolish the IRS". I expected that if you disagreed, you'd disclaim "Let's abolish CAF without abolishing the IRS," which you evidently didn't consider necessary.

At any rate: you're not in favour of abolishing the IRS; ignore the question. Sorry to have jumped the gun.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of the IRS, congress has given them way too much power and they should have much more oversight, but I don't see a way to do away with them in the foreseeable future.

We are taxed wrongly on many reasons. The ability to determine the difference between "Taxes are good vs. Taxes are bad" was decided before the Contsitution.

The "Taxes R bad M'Kay" Crowd doesn't spend time to determine which taxes are necessary vs unnecessary. Same with the war crowds.

Watching them parrot is hard to watch, but an important learning lesson. 'ALL TAXES R BAD!'

 

[AntiParty]

Today, the Rich are still King's. Simply in a different way.

 

[S.J.]

OKTexas, thereisnospoon: Why make the drastic leap from "end civil forfeiture" to "abolish the IRS"?

Civil forfeiture laws clearly extend beyond the IRS. Abolishing the IRS and replacing it with another agency is pointless if the replacement is at liberty to exercise the same abuses.

If your grievance is with civil forfeiture laws specifically, why not spend your time and energy advocating for the reform (or complete repeal) of these laws? Why bulldoze an entire government agency that happens to be using the laws to ill effect?

Re progressive taxation: I have to agree with Skylar that progressive taxation is the friend of the middle class. If you're making anywhere near the median salary (around $35K/year), I guarantee you you're better off with the current system if the US government wants to maintain its current revenues.

Also, just in case it has to be said: the idea that the US government could default on its debt and the US would come out smelling like roses on the other side is pure lunacy. If that default happens, it wipes out civil infrastructure, pension funds, banks, capital markets, export markets, college endowments, Medicare and Medicaid funds, municipal payrolls, and it brings the hulking wreck of western society down around us. The fallout will make the Great Depression look like a cakewalk by comparison, I kid you not. If you think you're going to make it out of that rout of blood, disease, starvation, and chaos better off than you are now...

I mention this because it seems some people are under the happy delusion that abolishing the IRS would be a means of expunging US public debt. I'd advise any sensible person to treat this belief as what it is: a delusion.

If you can cite a source of similar rigor showing that the money goes elsewhere, since 1984 you can lecture me.

I posted a link in Reply #5 that gives a dollar-by-dollar breakdown. The numbers come straight from the CBO and the US Treasury. Unless your claim is that the US federal government is lying in its own financial statements, I don't know what source could possibly be more rigorous.

Now you're trying to put words in my mouth, maybe you should review the posts I've made so far and exactly what I've argued.

You've argued that civil asset forfeiture should be abolished. But we're in a thread where the OP is about civil asset forfeiture, with the title "Another Reason to Abolish the IRS". I expected that if you disagreed, you'd disclaim "Let's abolish CAF without abolishing the IRS," which you evidently didn't consider necessary.

At any rate: you're not in favour of abolishing the IRS; ignore the question. Sorry to have jumped the gun.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of the IRS, congress has given them way too much power and they should have much more oversight, but I don't see a way to do away with them in the foreseeable future.

We are taxed wrongly on many reasons. The ability to determine the difference between "Taxes are good vs. Taxes are bad" was decided before the Contsitution.

The "Taxes R bad M'Kay" Crowd doesn't spend time to determine which taxes are necessary vs unnecessary. Same with the war crowds.

Watching them parrot is hard to watch, but an important learning lesson. 'ALL TAXES R BAD!'

Bullshit, that's never been our position. Taxes are necessary to run the country and no one is advocating otherwise. Because we don't want to give half our income so corrupt politicians can buy people and votes for their own personal gain, you have to lie and say we are advocating "no taxes". We want the government to defend our borders, not control every fucking thing we do.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"Another Reason To Abolish The IRS"

The IRS is not going to be 'abolished,' the notion is sophomoric and inane.

 

[g5000]

Where are you getting your numbers from?

The2ndAmendment made it up. He does that. It's his thing.

My numbers come from primary sources, such as the Grace Commission.

Grace Commission Report PPSS

Holy shit! That's from 31 years ago! And it is a projection, not a statement of fact. A projection that utterly missed the mark.

Dude, in every single topic in which you participate, you show yourself to be completely disconnected from reality.