Another school shooting....time to arm the teachers?

[jan]

Maybe we should have a discussion about holidays, violence seem to rise this time of year, or maybe it's winter, cold, cloudy days are depressing so maybe global warming isn't a bad thing. We can speculate all day, but really what good will it do. I just know you can't blame a tractor for a lousy harvest, it's just a tool.

No doubt about it. This time of year is conducive to emotional extremes or it can trigger some really dangerous ones.

OH PLEASE!!!!! The fact that Christmas is upon us is what's irrevenant! This stuff has been happening for far too long and I don't think they all happen around significant Christian holidays! Give me a break!

Apparently our society doesn't adequetly address mental illness...people are given a pill and told to go on their way. Apparently that's just not working! Re-open the state mental hospitals, put the crazies in there and throw away the key! Boom...problem solved!

 

[ABikerSailor]

No one is asking for more guns just more education and the ability to defend innocent people.

But thanks for yet another irrelevant post

Or we could just limit gun ownership to responsible people who've proven they can be trusted.

A woman who keeps guns in the same house as a son with a lifetime of mental illness obviously couldn't be trusted.

So now its her fault? What is it with you people and personal responsibility? He pulled the trigger. For all you know her guns were locked up. And please post any evidence you have about his mental condition as well as your claim that he lived with her.

If her guns were locked up safely, how did he get ahold of them? Most people that I know who own guns generally don't have a gun safe.

My Uncle Bill had around 40 pistols and rifles in his house, and all of them were either in drawers or in racks on the walls.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Really this is news to me I hope you have collaborating sources.

His mother wasn't armed but she was a teacher in that school. One who didn't make it to school that morning because he murdered her before he left the house. According to the most recent reports, however, all the weapons he used at the school were registered to her.

And nobody at the school had any defense against him.

Bus drivers have access to a weapon should they need one. So do passenger train personnel, designated personnel on board cruise ships and merchant ships, airline pilots, and I am going to guess a lot of cab drivers. I fully support schools taking whatever measures are necessary to protect the kids.

Except reducing the number of guns and the access that mentally ill people have to them, apparently.

Again- rest of the world, they don't let anyone who has a gun have them. And they have a LOT less of this kind of thing going on.

We don't live in the rest of the world. We live in America.

Again you're irrelevant

 

[Dreamy]

Just found out a friend of mine from Connecticut attended that same school as a child. He lives up here now in Mass.

I heard a lot of folks say today that they moved to that neighborhood because the schools were so good...and the neighborhod was safe. I mean...WTF?

Truly.

Mental illness and the violence that sometimes stems from certain mental illnesses can be found in any family and any neighborhood honestly.

Money can't buy you safety.
Nice lawns can't buy you safety.
More gun laws can't buy you safety.

We are human beings. I see more vehicles causing deaths and horrific injuries than guns. I think texting and other distractions while driving is more dangerous than ever today. I think road rage is more prevalent today. Drunk driving anyone? Maybe it is time to crack down all those people who risk my life and my loved ones lives when they get in their cars and get manic in their behavior. Seriously, if people want to go after guns as the root of all evil I can assure you I will be right there going after some of the maniacs I see going after me and others with their cars.

 

[JoeB131]

No one is asking for more guns just more education and the ability to defend innocent people.

But thanks for yet another irrelevant post

Or we could just limit gun ownership to responsible people who've proven they can be trusted.

A woman who keeps guns in the same house as a son with a lifetime of mental illness obviously couldn't be trusted.

So now its her fault? What is it with you people and personal responsibility? He pulled the trigger. For all you know her guns were locked up. And please post any evidence you have about his mental condition as well as your claim that he lived with her.

While it's amusing to watch you squirm, you are kind of stretching.

Ryan (the shooter's brother) told police he was not involved and that his brother has a history of mental health issues and might have had his ID at the time of the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary, officials said.

Two 9mm handguns, one made by Glock and the other by Sig Sauer, were recovered inside the school. An AR-15-type rifle also was found at the scene, but there conflicting reports Friday night whether it had been used in the shooting.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Or we could just limit gun ownership to responsible people who've proven they can be trusted.

A woman who keeps guns in the same house as a son with a lifetime of mental illness obviously couldn't be trusted.

So now its her fault? What is it with you people and personal responsibility? He pulled the trigger. For all you know her guns were locked up. And please post any evidence you have about his mental condition as well as your claim that he lived with her.

If her guns were locked up safely, how did he get ahold of them? Most people that I know who own guns generally don't have a gun safe.

My Uncle Bill had around 40 pistols and rifles in his house, and all of them were either in drawers or in racks on the walls.

I don't know if they were or not and neither does joe. That's the point.

Place the blame where it belongs is all I'm saying.

 

[JoeB131]

We don't live in the rest of the world. We live in America.

Again you're irrelevant

You mean, we aren't going to follow a bit of common sense we see everyone else do, because, DAMMIT, we're Americans!

Really and seriously?

 

[jan]

Just found out a friend of mine from Connecticut attended that same school as a child. He lives up here now in Mass.

I heard a lot of folks say today that they moved to that neighborhood because the schools were so good...and the neighborhod was safe. I mean...WTF?

It was recognized at one time as one of the safest places in America to raise a family.

I believe it!!! And in case folks haven't noticed...when anything like this happens it's always in a middle class or upper class setting! Universities, movie theaters, malls, schools...and now elementary schools. We've entered into a new low for this country when we allow this to happen and don't make any real changes!

Frankly, the writing was on the wall...this sort of stuff has been going on for far too long...and now it's the innocents...who couldn't have possibly hurt anybody...EVER! No...this has gone too far and we as citizens need to DEMAND change! Yes...DEMAND!

 

[JoeB131]

So now its her fault? What is it with you people and personal responsibility? He pulled the trigger. For all you know her guns were locked up. And please post any evidence you have about his mental condition as well as your claim that he lived with her.

If her guns were locked up safely, how did he get ahold of them? Most people that I know who own guns generally don't have a gun safe.

My Uncle Bill had around 40 pistols and rifles in his house, and all of them were either in drawers or in racks on the walls.

I don't know if they were or not and neither does joe. That's the point.

Place the blame where it belongs is all I'm saying.

I do.

I put the blame on the mother for giving such a dangerous kid access to guns. Jesus, a kindergarden teacher who owned FOUR guns?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Really this is news to me I hope you have collaborating sources.

His mother wasn't armed but she was a teacher in that school. One who didn't make it to school that morning because he murdered her before he left the house. According to the most recent reports, however, all the weapons he used at the school were registered to her.

And nobody at the school had any defense against him.

Bus drivers have access to a weapon should they need one. So do passenger train personnel, designated personnel on board cruise ships and merchant ships, airline pilots, and I am going to guess a lot of cab drivers. I fully support schools taking whatever measures are necessary to protect the kids.

Except reducing the number of guns and the access that mentally ill people have to them, apparently.

Again- rest of the world, they don't let anyone who has a gun have them. And they have a LOT less of this kind of thing going on.

Do you comprehend this?
No one allowed him access to the guns he took them

 

[Dreamy]

Maybe we should have a discussion about holidays, violence seem to rise this time of year, or maybe it's winter, cold, cloudy days are depressing so maybe global warming isn't a bad thing. We can speculate all day, but really what good will it do. I just know you can't blame a tractor for a lousy harvest, it's just a tool.

No doubt about it. This time of year is conducive to emotional extremes or it can trigger some really dangerous ones.

OH PLEASE!!!!! The fact that Christmas is upon us is what's irrevenant! This stuff has been happening for far too long and I don't think they all happen around significant Christian holidays! Give me a break!

Apparently our society doesn't adequetly address mental illness...people are given a pill and told to go on their way. Apparently that's just not working! Re-open the state mental hospitals, put the crazies in there and throw away the key! Boom...problem solved!

I was thinking instead of blaming guns maybe we should look at the aspects of our society toward human life that lead some people to value it so little.

If people want to blame guns for this man's killings then maybe we can also look at what parts of society are causing people, mentally ill or not, to de-value life so much?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Or we could just limit gun ownership to responsible people who've proven they can be trusted.

A woman who keeps guns in the same house as a son with a lifetime of mental illness obviously couldn't be trusted.

So now its her fault? What is it with you people and personal responsibility? He pulled the trigger. For all you know her guns were locked up. And please post any evidence you have about his mental condition as well as your claim that he lived with her.

While it's amusing to watch you squirm, you are kind of stretching.

Ryan (the shooter's brother) told police he was not involved and that his brother has a history of mental health issues and might have had his ID at the time of the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary, officials said.

Two 9mm handguns, one made by Glock and the other by Sig Sauer, were recovered inside the school. An AR-15-type rifle also was found at the scene, but there conflicting reports Friday night whether it had been used in the shooting.

None of that supports your claim. My brother is a leech in my opinion. That doesn't actually make him one. It makes it my opinion. Thanks but I'll wait for doctors reports on his mental condition.

I also heard the rifle was a 22. Hardly an assault rifle. And it never left his car according to the latest police report.

 

[jan]

Just found out a friend of mine from Connecticut attended that same school as a child. He lives up here now in Mass.

I heard a lot of folks say today that they moved to that neighborhood because the schools were so good...and the neighborhod was safe. I mean...WTF?

Truly.

Mental illness and the violence that sometimes stems from certain mental illnesses can be found in any family and any neighborhood honestly.

Money can't buy you safety.
Nice lawns can't buy you safety.
More gun laws can't buy you safety.

We are human beings. I see more vehicles causing deaths and horrific injuries than guns. I think texting and other distractions while driving is more dangerous than ever today. I think road rage is more prevalent today. Drunk driving anyone? Maybe it is time to crack down all those people who risk my life and my loved ones lives when they get in their cars and get manic in their behavior. Seriously, if people want to go after guns as the root of all evil I can assure you I will be right there going after some of the maniacs I see going after me and others with their cars.

Whatever! And I mean that...whatever we have to do to protect the innocent. If it means prohibition on alcohol...fine. If that means opening up the state hospitals again, fine! If that means public transportation for everybody so nobody gets into a car accident...fine! But one thing I never want to have to witness on the news again is a shooter opening fire on a bunch of kindergartners. No...that cannot be tolerated within our society...no!

 

[Foxfyre]

I think that all persons over the age of 18 should be required to own a gun, and that starting at an early age, children should be educated on how to properly wield a weapon, about gun safety, and about how to take care of your weapon. Shit like this wouldn't happen if your entire workforce is armed with even a simple 9 millimeter.

Bullshit. Are you SURE that you'd get the right person?

The new poster boy for this agenda is Joe Zamudio, a hero in the Tucson incident. Zamudio was in a nearby drug store when the shooting began, and he was armed. He ran to the scene and helped subdue the killer. Television interviewers are celebrating his courage, and pro-gun blogs are touting his equipment. "Bystander Says Carrying Gun Prompted Him to Help," says the headline in the Wall Street Journal.

But before we embrace Zamudio's brave intervention as proof of the value of being armed, let's hear the whole story. "I came out of that store, I clicked the safety off, and I was ready," he explained on Fox and Friends. "I had my hand on my gun. I had it in my jacket pocket here. And I came around the corner like this." Zamudio demonstrated how his shooting hand was wrapped around the weapon, poised to draw and fire. As he rounded the corner, he saw a man holding a gun. "And that's who I at first thought was the shooter," Zamudio recalled. "I told him to 'Drop it, drop it!'"

But the man with the gun wasn't the shooter. He had wrested the gun away from the shooter. "Had you shot that guy, it would have been a big, fat mess," the interviewer pointed out.

Zamudio agreed:

"I was very lucky. Honestly, it was a matter of seconds. Two, maybe three seconds between when I came through the doorway and when I was laying on top of [the real shooter], holding him down. So, I mean, in that short amount of time I made a lot of really big decisions really fast. … I was really lucky."

Armed hero nearly shot wrong man in Ariz. - Slate.com | NBC News

Even the guy who was carrying a concealed weapon said that things happened too fast and he almost shot the wrong person.

Besides...........looking for a gunman isn't something that schools are used to doing, so what makes you think that this person couldn't have sneaked up into a classroom and started popping off rounds?

Or..................do you think they're going to check in at the front office and tell everyone that they're going to kill some kids?

While I am all for those who want to defend themselves or others to have the right to do so, I am also of the opinion nobody should be forced to do so. Everybody won't want the responsibility and everybody might not be suited for it. Just like on the plane where the flight attendant makes sure those sitting by the emergency exits are prepared to take responsibility should that be necessary. If they aren't, they are moved.

From time to time soldiers and police officers are wounded or killed by friendly fire. Sometimes they shoot the wrong person. Cases of mistaken identify result in false arrest on a fairly regular basis. And it is probable that sooner or later a trained and armed teacher might miscalculate in the process of protecting the kids.

But looking at all those kindergarten children and school personnel who were murdered today, with absolutely no way to defend themselves, I'm willing to take the risk that at some time at some point there could be an accident or miscalculation by a volunteer protector. Today, if teachers had been armed and trained to act, a lot of lives might have been saved.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Do you comprehend this?
No one allowed him access to the guns he took them

If she couldn't keep them out of his hands, he had access.

My dad had a lot of guns. He kept them under lock and key. He kept the ammo in a place we couldn't find it. And I would imagine if one of us turned out to be crazier than a Fox News Commentator, he'd have taken more measures than that.

 

[JoeB131]

None of that supports your claim. My brother is a leech in my opinion. That doesn't actually make him one. It makes it my opinion. Thanks but I'll wait for doctors reports on his mental condition.

I also heard the rifle was a 22. Hardly an assault rifle. And it never left his car according to the latest police report.

An M-16 is technically a 22. Again, we don't know if that one was used in teh assault or not.. but the 9 MM's were.

Are you really trying to say that this guy wasn't mentally ill? I would think we have ample evidence to the contrary.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

We don't live in the rest of the world. We live in America.

Again you're irrelevant

You mean, we aren't going to follow a bit of common sense we see everyone else do, because, DAMMIT, we're Americans!

Really and seriously?

So you are the oritor of what's common sense in other countries? I suppose we should adopt Chinas population control ideas as well?

 

[Old Rocks]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cqbv-aqoao&feature=youtube_gdata_player


I say yes. Of course proper precautions should be taken but lets allow administration officials to protect the children and themselves.

Oh yes. That's the answer. More fucking guns.

Merry Christmas from the NRA.

Fuck you assholes. How many more shootings before we take these war guns off the streets?

Time for the sane in this nation to point out the insanity of you worshipers of death.

 

[koshergrl]

I heard a lot of folks say today that they moved to that neighborhood because the schools were so good...and the neighborhod was safe. I mean...WTF?

Truly.

Mental illness and the violence that sometimes stems from certain mental illnesses can be found in any family and any neighborhood honestly.

Money can't buy you safety.
Nice lawns can't buy you safety.
More gun laws can't buy you safety.

We are human beings. I see more vehicles causing deaths and horrific injuries than guns. I think texting and other distractions while driving is more dangerous than ever today. I think road rage is more prevalent today. Drunk driving anyone? Maybe it is time to crack down all those people who risk my life and my loved ones lives when they get in their cars and get manic in their behavior. Seriously, if people want to go after guns as the root of all evil I can assure you I will be right there going after some of the maniacs I see going after me and others with their cars.

Whatever! And I mean that...whatever we have to do to protect the innocent. If it means prohibition on alcohol...fine. If that means opening up the state hospitals again, fine! If that means public transportation for everybody so nobody gets into a car accident...fine! But one thing I never want to have to witness on the news again is a shooter opening fire on a bunch of kindergartners. No...that cannot be tolerated within our society...no!

You already tolerate it.

You tolerate it when you determine that no person can be trusted to defend himself and his loved ones, when you restrict our access to guns, when you declare that anti-social, mentally ill individuals be *mainstreamed*.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

None of that supports your claim. My brother is a leech in my opinion. That doesn't actually make him one. It makes it my opinion. Thanks but I'll wait for doctors reports on his mental condition.

I also heard the rifle was a 22. Hardly an assault rifle. And it never left his car according to the latest police report.

An M-16 is technically a 22. Again, we don't know if that one was used in teh assault or not.. but the 9 MM's were.

Are you really trying to say that this guy wasn't mentally ill? I would think we have ample evidence to the contrary.

I have no idea. People snap all the time and bad shit happens. I'm not a psychologist are you?