Antarctic ice shelf thinning accelerates

[mamooth]

Further, the very idea that long wave IR is what warms the planet has never, ever been shown to be correct.

And off you go into loony greenhouse-effect denier territory, so there's no need to even pretend to take you seriously.

 

[Old Rocks]

Sure, ol' Walleyes, sure. And who among your plethora of obese junkies, fake British Lords, and loopy ex-TV weathermen have been threatoned with prosecution for doing science. One of your GOP assholes not only tried that, but then ran for governor, bragging about it. And lost.

There is a reason that all the Scientific Societies, all the National Academies of Science, and all the major Universities in the world have policy statements that state that AGW is real, and a clear and present danger. But, of course, for our little tin hat boys, that is just proof of the vastness of the international conspiracy to fool them and pollute their vital bodily fluids.

 

[Crick]

I found out that IR can only penetrate microns deep into the oceans (the ultimate heat sink for the planet after all) and that renders the whole "theory" false. IR can't warm the planet. Period.

Westwall, why can IR only penetrate microns deep into seawater? Please explain to us precisely what's happening to IR radiation that hits the ocean.

Just to give you something to think about as you're working that up, the diameter of a water molecule is 310 quadrillionths of a meter. A micron is one millionth of a meter. If your IR photon disappears in one micron, it does so after it has passed roughly 3 million water molecules.

So, again, what is it that you believe is happening to that photon??

 

[westwall]

Sure, ol' Walleyes, sure. And who among your plethora of obese junkies, fake British Lords, and loopy ex-TV weathermen have been threatoned with prosecution for doing science. One of your GOP assholes not only tried that, but then ran for governor, bragging about it. And lost.

There is a reason that all the Scientific Societies, all the National Academies of Science, and all the major Universities in the world have policy statements that state that AGW is real, and a clear and present danger. But, of course, for our little tin hat boys, that is just proof of the vastness of the international conspiracy to fool them and pollute their vital bodily fluids.

No, they all support because it is now the foundation of all of their grant proposals. You know....."follow the money". As far as your other non sequitur attacks, who cares. Those are all you have, personal attacks and appeals to authority. You have no science to back your preposterous claims up with,.

 

[westwall]

I found out that IR can only penetrate microns deep into the oceans (the ultimate heat sink for the planet after all) and that renders the whole "theory" false. IR can't warm the planet. Period.

Westwall, why can IR only penetrate microns deep into seawater? Please explain to us precisely what's happening to IR radiation that hits the ocean.

Just to give you something to think about as you're working that up, the diameter of a water molecule is 310 quadrillionths of a meter. A micron is one millionth of a meter. If your IR photon disappears in one micron, it does so after it has passed roughly 3 million water molecules.

So, again, what is it that you believe is happening to that photon??

Because that's all it can. IR interacts with the "skin" of the water. That's it. Go ahead, don't believe me. Look it up for yourself.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Present ONE paper that uses empirical data to support your claim. Computer models ARE NOT DATA!

The direct measurements of outgoing longwave radiation decreasing, backradiation increasing and stratospheric cooling are all smoking guns for human-caused global warming. If no computer models existed, AGW theory would still be proven. The success of the models is just icing on the cake.

Funny how you idiots who claim to know so much about science can't seem to wrap your tiny little heads around that FACT!

Funny how you deliberately ignore all the direct evidence, and then try to pass off a lie that models are the only evidence.

That's the #2 reason why the denier cult is held in such contempt by the world, its chronic dishonesty.

The #1 reason deniers are scorned, of course, is that the denier cult's science stinks so badly. As in they don't have any science. At this stage, all they have is conspiracy theories.

You mean like in the IR spectrum that no one seems to be measuring in the first place? Further, the very idea that long wave IR is what warms the planet has never, ever been shown to be correct. IN fact, Trenberths admission that there was no warming in the oceans pushed me to check things out and I found out that IR can only penetrate microns deep into the oceans (the ultimate heat sink for the planet after all) and that renders the whole "theory" false. IR can't warm the planet. Period.

"Terrestrial emission plays a critical role in the climate system(1), and over 99% of this radiation occurs in the wavelengthrange from 5 to 100μm (2,000 cm−1to 100 cm−1). However,there have been very few spectrally resolved measurements of terrestrial emission at wavelengths between 15.4μmand100μm(650 cm−1to 100 cm−1), often referred to as the far infrared, even though approximately half of the terrestrial radiation occurs over this subset of infrared wavelengths (2). Under moist conditions, the atmosphere is opaque to the surface in the far infrared, but the atmosphere becomes partially transparent to the surface under arid conditions. The terms that affect radiation in the far infrared, which are surface, water vapor, and cloud emission, are inferred from measurements in other spectral regions (typically midinfrared wavelengths from 5μmto15.4μm) (3), and it is possible to check for consistency with outgoing longwave radiation (OLR) measurements from the Clouds and the Earth’s Radiant Energy System (CERES) instrument, which covers between 5μmand 50μm(2,000cm−1to 200 cm−1) (4). It has been demonstrated, however, that this approach can be problematic for water vapor and cloud energetics due to compensating errors (5, 6). The paucity of measurements in the far infrared has frustrated efforts to characterize what may be affecting this spectral region, but the limited measurements that do exist (7−10) suggest the importance of the far infrared for radiometric accuracy in the radiative transfer codes used in climate models (11). For example, Turner et al. (12) found that changing the water vapor continuum absorption in the Community Earth System Model, which affects far-IR radiation, leads to changes in the vertical distribution of radiative cooling."

http://www.pnas.org/content/111/46/16297.full.pdf

Turner found that the water vapor column acts much the same as the ocean and the heat is reflected and lost to space.. He found that a simple 40% humidity level, at 0-40 meters renders the 15um - 100um range impotent. Water vapor near earths surface, in the water column, renders CO2 null. No mid-tropospheric hot spot forms as the energy is lost to space because it can not be absorbed..

Turners paper is a good read and the Faithful boo and hiss because physics doesn't care about agenda's..

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I found out that IR can only penetrate microns deep into the oceans (the ultimate heat sink for the planet after all) and that renders the whole "theory" false. IR can't warm the planet. Period.

Westwall, why can IR only penetrate microns deep into seawater? Please explain to us precisely what's happening to IR radiation that hits the ocean.

Just to give you something to think about as you're working that up, the diameter of a water molecule is 310 quadrillionths of a meter. A micron is one millionth of a meter. If your IR photon disappears in one micron, it does so after it has passed roughly 3 million water molecules.

So, again, what is it that you believe is happening to that photon??

It burrows into the ocean until it hits the 700m mark, right?

 

[Crick]

Then there must be dozens of papers out there that demonstrate your claim. Could you find us some?

Present ONE paper that uses empirical data to support your claim. Computer models ARE NOT DATA! Funny how you idiots who claim to know so much about science can't seem to wrap your tiny little heads around that FACT![/QUOTE]

Westwall first.

 

[Crick]

I found out that IR can only penetrate microns deep into the oceans (the ultimate heat sink for the planet after all) and that renders the whole "theory" false. IR can't warm the planet. Period.

Westwall, why can IR only penetrate microns deep into seawater? Please explain to us precisely what's happening to IR radiation that hits the ocean.

Just to give you something to think about as you're working that up, the diameter of a water molecule is 310 quadrillionths of a meter. A micron is one millionth of a meter. If your IR photon disappears in one micron, it does so after it has passed roughly 3 million water molecules.

So, again, what is it that you believe is happening to that photon??

Because that's all it can. IR interacts with the "skin" of the water. That's it. Go ahead, don't believe me. Look it up for yourself.

What is "the "skin" of the water and how, precisely, do the IR photons interact with it Westwall?

 

[Old Rocks]

So the sun cannot possibly warm a rock or peice of steel as the sunlight does not penetrate either at all. Right? That seems to be the arguement that our Phd Geologist is presenting.

 

[skookerasbil]

But Billy.........if you are a scientist at any level of education and you disagree with the established narrative of AGW science, you are automatically a fake scientist!!

 

[skookerasbil]

Oh...........ps......the 97% consensus is a myth!! A huge, huge majority of scientists call BS on the alarmist view of climate change pushed by the bozo's in this forum >>

Cooking Climate Consensus Data 97 of Scientists Affirm AGW Debunked

These scientists value the age old tradition of the scientific method which AGW scientists don't care about.

 

[skookerasbil]

dEbUnKeD

 

[IanC]

Oh...........ps......the 97% consensus is a myth!! A huge, huge majority of scientists call BS on the alarmist view of climate change pushed by the bozo's in this forum >>

Cooking Climate Consensus Data 97 of Scientists Affirm AGW Debunked

These scientists value the age old tradition of the scientific method which AGW scientists don't care about.

of all those 97% polls, Cook's has to be the worst. it has been hit a lot more and a lot harder since that 2013 piece as well. the Lewandowsky, Nutteracelli and Cook pieces on 'deniers' have taken fatal blows as well. it takes too long to explain how anti-science those guys are but Australia must be ashamed.

 

[westwall]

I found out that IR can only penetrate microns deep into the oceans (the ultimate heat sink for the planet after all) and that renders the whole "theory" false. IR can't warm the planet. Period.

Westwall, why can IR only penetrate microns deep into seawater? Please explain to us precisely what's happening to IR radiation that hits the ocean.

Just to give you something to think about as you're working that up, the diameter of a water molecule is 310 quadrillionths of a meter. A micron is one millionth of a meter. If your IR photon disappears in one micron, it does so after it has passed roughly 3 million water molecules.

So, again, what is it that you believe is happening to that photon??

Because that's all it can. IR interacts with the "skin" of the water. That's it. Go ahead, don't believe me. Look it up for yourself.

What is "the "skin" of the water and how, precisely, do the IR photons interact with it Westwall?

Here you go...Look it up for yourself.

Light Absorption in Sea Water, Wozniak & Dera, Atmospheric and Oceanographic Sciences Library (2007)

 

[mamooth]

You evaded the very simple question that Old Rocks brought up.

That is, since any wavelength of sunlight can't penetrate far into the "skin" of a rock, Westwall logic would say that proves sunlight can't warm a rock, right?

Conclusion: Westwall logic is really freakin' stupid. Deniers are literally tossing out conservation of energy solely because it contradicts their religious beliefs.

 

[westwall]

You evaded the very simple question that Old Rocks brought up.

That is, since any wavelength of sunlight can't penetrate far into the "skin" of a rock, Westwall logic would say that proves sunlight can't warm a rock, right?

Conclusion: Westwall logic is really freakin' stupid. Deniers are literally tossing out conservation of energy solely because it contradicts their religious beliefs.

Olfraud is WRONG! He's comparing an apple with a hand grenade and as usual, you're too stupid to figure out why. Now...mr. admiral, why don't you dazzle us with your brilliance and tell us the difference between sunlight radiating on rock, and on water.

 

[mamooth]

For the case we're discussing, there is no difference. Rock or water, all energy in the form of radiation that isn't reflected is absorbed.

If you think there's a difference, we'd all like to hear how it works. Why do you think the rock absorbs all incoming energy that doesn't reflect, but water doesn't? And where does the energy that the water doesn't absorb go?

 

[westwall]

For the case we're discussing, there is no difference. Rock or water, all energy in the form of radiation that isn't reflected is absorbed.

If you think there's a difference, we'd all like to hear how it works. Why do you think the rock absorbs all incoming energy that doesn't reflect, but water doesn't? And where does the energy that the water doesn't absorb go?

Wrong as usual. Truly, for someone who claims to have been a "nuclear watch officer" in the Navy, you know bupkus about the physical world.

 

[mamooth]

So you're not going to tell us what mystery dimension the energy that strikes the water vanishes into?

You're proudly violating conservation of energy. That makes you a flaming kook.

Now, you could still just say "Oops, I made a dumb mistake there." It would be no biggie. However, your all-consuming narcissism prevents you from ever admitting any error of any sort. Therefore, you're going to keep charging down the kook path now, to everyone's great amusement. Please proceed.