Antarctic ice shelf thinning accelerates

[jc456]

Present ONE paper that uses empirical data to support your claim. Computer models ARE NOT DATA!

The direct measurements of outgoing longwave radiation decreasing, backradiation increasing and stratospheric cooling are all smoking guns for human-caused global warming. If no computer models existed, AGW theory would still be proven. The success of the models is just icing on the cake.

Funny how you idiots who claim to know so much about science can't seem to wrap your tiny little heads around that FACT!

Funny how you deliberately ignore all the direct evidence, and then try to pass off a lie that models are the only evidence.

That's the #2 reason why the denier cult is held in such contempt by the world, its chronic dishonesty.

The #1 reason deniers are scorned, of course, is that the denier cult's science stinks so badly. As in they don't have any science. At this stage, all they have is conspiracy theories.

They're too busy tearing down others to do their own research in the field. Extraction industry shills they are.

who's tearing down who dot head?

 

[jc456]

Further, the very idea that long wave IR is what warms the planet has never, ever been shown to be correct.

And off you go into loony greenhouse-effect denier territory, so there's no need to even pretend to take you seriously.

the fact house, the true denier you are speaks in forked tongue only you know.

 

[IanC]

By what mechanism do you believe conduction between that first micron and the water below is prevented from taking place?

Heat doesn't flow from cold to warm.

 

[westwall]

By what mechanism do you believe conduction between that first micron and the water below is prevented from taking place?

Heat doesn't flow from cold to warm.

Cricky don't do facts. Just sayin...

 

[Crick]

What I said proved that IR doesn't directly heat the ocean. Isn't that what Westy has been saying?

No

I found out that IR can only penetrate microns deep into the oceans (the ultimate heat sink for the planet after all) and that renders the whole "theory" false. IR can't warm the planet. Period.

 

[Crick]

By what mechanism do you believe conduction between that first micron and the water below is prevented from taking place?

Heat doesn't flow from cold to warm.

Heat flows from hot to warm slower than it flows from hot to cold. The effect is the same. Westwall's idea that the IR's energy simply disappeared without heating anything because it only penetrated a micron into the water was patent nonsense.

And the layer in which actual evaporation takes place is about a millionth of a micron in thickness. AND, evaporating water is not a loss of energy. The water vapor has more thermal energy than it did as a liquid, it's just no longer in the ocean. It's above it, warming the atmosphere and increasing its ability to absorb IR.

 

[Old Rocks]

I'm sorry jc, but you're just not up to it.

I'm above it, I have graduated and know the fake data is fake. I call bullshit, I don't accept it and until you present data that is RAW data, it's still bullshit. comprehenda?

Eighth grade?

 

[Crick]

I'm sorry jc, but you're just not up to it.

I'm above it, I have graduated and know the fake data is fake. I call bullshit, I don't accept it and until you present data that is RAW data, it's still bullshit. comprehenda?

It appears that you are afraid of numbers and of anyone that can add them or subtract them. You seem to believe that arithmetic is a proprietary art of the devil.

 

[IanC]

By what mechanism do you believe conduction between that first micron and the water below is prevented from taking place?

Heat doesn't flow from cold to warm.

Heat flows from hot to warm slower than it flows from hot to cold. The effect is the same. Westwall's idea that the IR's energy simply disappeared without heating anything because it only penetrated a micron into the water was patent nonsense.

And the layer in which actual evaporation takes place is about a millionth of a micron in thickness. AND, evaporating water is not a loss of energy. The water vapor has more thermal energy than it did as a liquid, it's just no longer in the ocean. It's above it, warming the atmosphere and increasing its ability to absorb IR.

Over and over again. I feel like I am butting my head against the wall of stupidity on both sides of this issue.

downward IR from the atmosphere is absorbed at the skin of the ocean. what happens to that energy? it goes into the pool of energy used to cause evaporation. what happens because of the water vapour? the air is lighter and starts to rise..what happens to that lighter air? it expands and cools as it gets higher. what happens to the water vapour as it cools? it condenses back into liquid water giving up its phase change energy and returns to the surface. this is a heat engine, taking energy from the surface across the surface bottleneck of GHGs to an altitude where the energy can escape more easily into space.

this same heat pump is also responsible for air currents, taking energy from the equator towards the poles, again, where the energy can escape more easily. likewise a similar system works inside the ocean. both of these systems act as a heat sink where energy is stored and released according to local conditions.

the real problem in discussing AGW is that people focus on one part of energy transfer at a time and ignore all the other pathways. for example, lets assume doubling CO2 causes an extra 5W/m2 at the surface. where does that energy go? alarmists think it all goes into raising the temperature. it does not, most of it goes into heatsinks via alternate pathways. because of the way equilibriums work at least some portion must go into raising temp but certainly not all. lets look at the flip side. if CO2 was halved then the surface would lose 5W/m2. would the surface go down in temperature the full amount? no. less energy would take the alternate pathways and the temperature would only be slightly affected.

the Sun is 10-20% brighter than it was 3 billion years ago, yet there has always been liquid water on earth.

speaking of the Sun, what happens in the daytime when the solar IR is streaming in? I dont know what portion of the Sun's power is in IR but I bet it is easily gtreater than 10W at the Earth. What are some of the heatsinks that smooth out the change from daylight to nighttime? one simple one is that the atmosphere 'puffs up', storing potential energy that is released later.

what would happen if suddenly the earth no longer received sunlight? all of these heatsinks would give up the energy stored in them. water and wind circulation would slow and stop. the atmosphere would shrink until it lay frozen on the surface.

water is the dominant greenhouse gas and has held Earth in the goldilocks zone for billions of years despite major disruptions. CO2 is a minor ghg that while important, is not the control knob of climate.

 

[Old Rocks]

Very good, Ian. Except that real scientists present evidence that states just the opposite.

 

[SSDD]

These are empirical data, wheezebulb.

These are empirical data

These are empirical data

These are empirical data

You are such a stupid dipshit.

You do know that correlation isn't the same as causation don't you? You didn't? To bad.

How about some actual evidence that proves causation?

 

[SSDD]

The direct measurements of outgoing longwave radiation decreasing, backradiation increasing and stratospheric cooling are all smoking guns for human-caused global warming. If no computer models existed, AGW theory would still be proven. The success of the models is just icing on the cake.

Sorry hairball, outgoing LW at the top of the atmosphere is increasing....precisely the opposite of the claims of the AGW models.

You have seen the evidence before but just can't resist telling the lie, can you. How is that piss fetish working out for you these days? Understand that you have some strange attraction to sissies as well. In addition to being just plain stupid, it seems that you are pretty weird as well.

 

[SSDD]

Evaporation happens in the top micron of water. IR reaches a micron into the ocean. Why does crick think the depths measured by XBTs has anything germaine to the discussion?

Because crick is an idiot. He asked for an explanation...then he got one and he knows he was wrong but can't let it end at that so out come the straw men.

 

[Crick]

Evaporation takes place in the top millionth of a micron.

 

[mamooth]

Sorry hairball, outgoing LW at the top of the atmosphere is increasing....

Pissdrinker, nobody pays any attention to your graphs of faked mystery data.

If you're not faking the data, just tell us exactly where you got it. I've asked you several times, and you've refused to answer every single time. That's because you're a fraud who keeps trying to pass off faked data.

 

[Old Rocks]

SSDD got his ass kicked on this board by both the deniers and the warmers because of his insane statements concerning science. Too bad he has come back to repeat the same nonsense.

His choosey photons are giggle worthy.

 

[Crick]

I have no problem with increases in outgoing LW. It's the obvious result of increasing global temperatures.

 

[Crick]

These are empirical data, wheezebulb.

These are empirical data

These are empirical data

These are empirical data

You are such a stupid dipshit.

You do know that correlation isn't the same as causation don't you? You didn't? To bad.

How about some actual evidence that proves causation?

I know that causation always includes correlation - something you can't seem to grasp. You seem to think that correlation is evidence of no relation. And, pardon me if I follow you no further. The claim here - by several of your buddies - was that mainstream science had no empirical data supporting AGW. These are empirical data and they support AGW.

And how are those intelligent photons coming along? Did you think your claims would be forgotten?

 

[SSDD]

Pissdrinker, nobody pays any attention to your graphs of faked mystery data.

You are unfamiliar with KNMI? Of course you are. See you are still dealing with your piss fetish. Very strange. Seems that you are might have gone from 2 cats short of being the crazy cat lady to a surplus of cats.

 

[SSDD]

SSDD got his ass kicked on this board by both the deniers and the warmers because of his insane statements concerning science. Too bad he has come back to repeat the same nonsense.

His choosey photons are giggle worthy.

On my worst day, my ass hasn't been kicked around as much as yours.