Ante up anti gunners...what will you allow for normal gun owners, what do you want?

[Al Azar]

The problem with guns here, is the culture behind it. I was listening to an interview with a Norwegian on their gun culture.

Like Americans, many Norwegians own guns. But according to Seierstad, the culture of gun ownership is very different in the two countries. In Norway, for example, it's uncommon to see guns outside organized settings like gun clubs or during hunting season.


“Yes, there’s a high percentage of gun ownership in Norway," she says, "but those guns are used mainly one week in the year during the hunting of elk season ... the rest of the year it’s locked down and stored.”


Even US and Norwegian law enforcement have different approaches to firearms.


“The police has not been armed in Norway,” Seierstad says. “People in the US could say, ‘Well, isn’t that scary?’ Well when the police is not armed, the drug dealer is not armed, the criminals are not armed, because no one is armed.”

After Orlando, Americans and US lawmakers are arguing over whether to strengthen (or even weaken) gun regulations. But after the attacks in Oslo and Utoya, Norwegian law didn't change.


The Norwegian government did set up a committee that proposed tighter gun laws — including mandatory medical background checks, regular checks on weapon owners and better lists accounting for guns with lead ammunition — but none of these proposals went into effect.


Why? The reason was pretty simple.

“We had quite restrictive laws,” Seierstad explains. "We have very very few gun accidents and gun murders.”​

You don't see testosterone impaired idiots walking around like this:

In my mind common sense gun control would look at changing the culture as much as changing any laws. I'd have no problem with some sort of education course in safe use, legal issues etc before you can purchase gun. I'd also have no problem with having certain types of weapons banned, and the purchase of large amounts of weapons and ammunition causing a red flag to be raised. Universal background checks.

I understand where you are coming from, but ask yourself this: How likely is it that someone is going to rob any of those guys in your picture? Pretty low right? That would be kinda stupid if you ask me. Now, what if the vast majority of people in the US where concealed carriers? How long do you think it would take before criminals would change, if chances were pretty good that granny was "packin' heat"?

What are the chances that we'll see an increase in drunken shooting incidents? Guns used first in lieu of other dispute resolutions? And, what are the chances those guys are going to get robbed anyway? Low.

More people than ever are applying for and getting concealed carry permits
Have there been running gun fights in the streets by people with legal CCW permits?

No in fact CCW permit holders tend to be some of the most peaceful law abiding people in society who would rather avoid a situation where they might have to use their weapons than play tough guy

And they have traditionally received those permits following background checks, firearms registration and training.

Oh, and no infringement of rights.

and yet criminals don't do any of those things...and 90% of gun murders are committed by criminals who cannot legally buy, own or carry guns..........

Again....you refuse to say what gun registration actually does.......do you acknowledge that criminals do not have to register illegal guns....via Haynes v. United States.....which means only normal people will be required to register their guns....how does that stop gun murder exactly?

and you can't register fully automatic rifles in France......yet they are easily gotten by French criminals.....and terrorists on government watch lists.........

Registration keeps people in possession of unregistered weapons off the streets. This has been explained.

 

[2aguy]

The problem with guns here, is the culture behind it. I was listening to an interview with a Norwegian on their gun culture.

Like Americans, many Norwegians own guns. But according to Seierstad, the culture of gun ownership is very different in the two countries. In Norway, for example, it's uncommon to see guns outside organized settings like gun clubs or during hunting season.


“Yes, there’s a high percentage of gun ownership in Norway," she says, "but those guns are used mainly one week in the year during the hunting of elk season ... the rest of the year it’s locked down and stored.”


Even US and Norwegian law enforcement have different approaches to firearms.


“The police has not been armed in Norway,” Seierstad says. “People in the US could say, ‘Well, isn’t that scary?’ Well when the police is not armed, the drug dealer is not armed, the criminals are not armed, because no one is armed.”

After Orlando, Americans and US lawmakers are arguing over whether to strengthen (or even weaken) gun regulations. But after the attacks in Oslo and Utoya, Norwegian law didn't change.


The Norwegian government did set up a committee that proposed tighter gun laws — including mandatory medical background checks, regular checks on weapon owners and better lists accounting for guns with lead ammunition — but none of these proposals went into effect.


Why? The reason was pretty simple.

“We had quite restrictive laws,” Seierstad explains. "We have very very few gun accidents and gun murders.”​

You don't see testosterone impaired idiots walking around like this:

In my mind common sense gun control would look at changing the culture as much as changing any laws. I'd have no problem with some sort of education course in safe use, legal issues etc before you can purchase gun. I'd also have no problem with having certain types of weapons banned, and the purchase of large amounts of weapons and ammunition causing a red flag to be raised. Universal background checks.

I understand where you are coming from, but ask yourself this: How likely is it that someone is going to rob any of those guys in your picture? Pretty low right? That would be kinda stupid if you ask me. Now, what if the vast majority of people in the US where concealed carriers? How long do you think it would take before criminals would change, if chances were pretty good that granny was "packin' heat"?

What are the chances that we'll see an increase in drunken shooting incidents? Guns used first in lieu of other dispute resolutions? And, what are the chances those guys are going to get robbed anyway? Low.

You have already been proven wrong by actual experience.......40 states allow carrying guns even into places that serve alcohol....and our gun murder rate and gun crime rate went down, not up....

You are wrong.....

Virginia passed concealed carry in bars last year....their bar crime rate went down 5.9%....so you are wrong again......

You guys have trotted out more guns = more crime since the 1990s........in th 1990s there were 200 million guns in private hands...........in 2016 357,000,000 guns in private hands....and our gun murder rate went down by almost 50%.....

you are wrong...nothing you believe is supported by facts or the truth.

 

[2aguy]

I understand where you are coming from, but ask yourself this: How likely is it that someone is going to rob any of those guys in your picture? Pretty low right? That would be kinda stupid if you ask me. Now, what if the vast majority of people in the US where concealed carriers? How long do you think it would take before criminals would change, if chances were pretty good that granny was "packin' heat"?

What are the chances that we'll see an increase in drunken shooting incidents? Guns used first in lieu of other dispute resolutions? And, what are the chances those guys are going to get robbed anyway? Low.

More people than ever are applying for and getting concealed carry permits
Have there been running gun fights in the streets by people with legal CCW permits?

No in fact CCW permit holders tend to be some of the most peaceful law abiding people in society who would rather avoid a situation where they might have to use their weapons than play tough guy

And they have traditionally received those permits following background checks, firearms registration and training.

Oh, and no infringement of rights.

and yet criminals don't do any of those things...and 90% of gun murders are committed by criminals who cannot legally buy, own or carry guns..........

Again....you refuse to say what gun registration actually does.......do you acknowledge that criminals do not have to register illegal guns....via Haynes v. United States.....which means only normal people will be required to register their guns....how does that stop gun murder exactly?

and you can't register fully automatic rifles in France......yet they are easily gotten by French criminals.....and terrorists on government watch lists.........

Registration keeps people in possession of unregistered weapons off the streets. This has been explained.

No...it hasn't ....you said if you register guns it keeps unregistered guns off the street.....and provided no explanation as to how that happens.....

I say if you sprinkle pixie dust in the woods during a full moon it will keep guns off the streets....and that is as valid a method as registering guns.........

Again......do you acknowledge that criminals...felons do not have to register illegal guns under Haynes v. United States.....?

How does requiring law abiding gun owners to do paperwork keep criminals, who cannot legally own guns in the first place, from getting illegal guns....

I am calling you out....explain the mechanics of gun registration....how it physically stops a criminal or mass shooter from getting an illegal gun.........

 

[2aguy]

I understand where you are coming from, but ask yourself this: How likely is it that someone is going to rob any of those guys in your picture? Pretty low right? That would be kinda stupid if you ask me. Now, what if the vast majority of people in the US where concealed carriers? How long do you think it would take before criminals would change, if chances were pretty good that granny was "packin' heat"?

All the pro-gun arguments are based on Charlie Bronson films.

All the pro-responsible gun control arguments are based on facts.

Yet you mock responsible gun control.

Define it then.

??? I just did. Our regulation of machine guns is very effective. Expand it to include all firearms. No law-abiding citizen would be adversely affected.

Machine guns are regulated. Assault style weaponry is not. There's not a whole lot of difference between the two anymore.

Wrong........you have no ideas what you are talking about.....did it hurt when you pulled that out of your ass?

 

[Al Azar]

So the firepower of individuals should at least equal that of the gov't? When have firearms kept American people free?

How the hell do you think we won our independence?

The rebels and the military both used the same classes of weapons.

Now, back to personal nuclear weaponry...

What the hell does a nuke have to do with it?

To protect us, to put us on an even footing with our potential enemy, the US Armed Forces. That was the intent of the founding fathers when they gave us the right to bear arms, according to what I read here.

Yep......

One of your comrades just admitted that, despite claims that the founding fathers wanted citizens to arm themselves against an oppressive government, we don't need to worry about that anymore so it doesn't matter what they intended. You two need to sort this out and then attempt to present a united argument, such as it may be.

 

[2aguy]

"... shall not be infringed" needs to be taken in context. The foundation for the entire constitution is encapsulated in its preamble, where it sets forth the function of our government to "promote the common welfare". It's hard to rationalize blocking public safety efforts as being in the spirit of promoting our welfare, but some folks sure manage to twist and torture its meaning to promote their agenda of fear.

How does the government knowing where all the LEGAL guns are "promote the general welfare"?
How has background checks promoted the general welfare?
More to the point, just how much freedom and liberty are you willing to give up to feel safe? Me, I'll feel pretty safe with a Glock on my hip, but you go ahead and do what you do to feel safe.

When you know who the registered owner of a firearm is, you know who isn't. Penalizing possession of a firearm not registered to the bearer is one of the three gun control steps I explained at the git-go, oh so long ago, before we we got off-track into a 2nd Amendment argument.

If someone has a gun and is a criminal....you can arrest them without needing to register guns......it is already the law. If the person has a gun....and has no criminal record....again.....there is no need to register that gun.....if he is stopped by police they run his name and birth date...if no record pops up......no arrest is necessary.....

you just want another layer of inneffective paperwork...and more legal jeapordy for gun owners....why is that?

 

[2aguy]

How the hell do you think we won our independence?

The rebels and the military both used the same classes of weapons.

Now, back to personal nuclear weaponry...

What the hell does a nuke have to do with it?

To protect us, to put us on an even footing with our potential enemy, the US Armed Forces. That was the intent of the founding fathers when they gave us the right to bear arms, according to what I read here.

Yep......

One of your comrades just admitted that, despite claims that the founding fathers wanted citizens to arm themselves against an oppressive government, we don't need to worry about that anymore so it doesn't matter what they intended. You two need to sort this out and then attempt to present a united argument, such as it may be.

We need to worry about our government....just ask the Germans...they registered their guns using the same dumb ass arguments you are using right now....the exact same arguments.....when they trusted their government, and expected it to protect them.....20 years later....their government sent 12 million Europeans to the gas chambers....unarmed Europeans....

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

How the hell do you think we won our independence?

The rebels and the military both used the same classes of weapons.

Now, back to personal nuclear weaponry...

What the hell does a nuke have to do with it?

To protect us, to put us on an even footing with our potential enemy, the US Armed Forces. That was the intent of the founding fathers when they gave us the right to bear arms, according to what I read here.

Yep......

One of your comrades just admitted that, despite claims that the founding fathers wanted citizens to arm themselves against an oppressive government, we don't need to worry about that anymore so it doesn't matter what they intended. You two need to sort this out and then attempt to present a united argument, such as it may be.

I see you ignored my response...
Typical of liberals,when it's something they cant answer they ignore it.

 

[Al Azar]

What are the chances that we'll see an increase in drunken shooting incidents? Guns used first in lieu of other dispute resolutions? And, what are the chances those guys are going to get robbed anyway? Low.

More people than ever are applying for and getting concealed carry permits
Have there been running gun fights in the streets by people with legal CCW permits?

No in fact CCW permit holders tend to be some of the most peaceful law abiding people in society who would rather avoid a situation where they might have to use their weapons than play tough guy

And they have traditionally received those permits following background checks, firearms registration and training.

Oh, and no infringement of rights.

and yet criminals don't do any of those things...and 90% of gun murders are committed by criminals who cannot legally buy, own or carry guns..........

Again....you refuse to say what gun registration actually does.......do you acknowledge that criminals do not have to register illegal guns....via Haynes v. United States.....which means only normal people will be required to register their guns....how does that stop gun murder exactly?

and you can't register fully automatic rifles in France......yet they are easily gotten by French criminals.....and terrorists on government watch lists.........

Registration keeps people in possession of unregistered weapons off the streets. This has been explained.

No...it hasn't ....you said if you register guns it keeps unregistered guns off the street.....and provided no explanation as to how that happens.....

I say if you sprinkle pixie dust in the woods during a full moon it will keep guns off the streets....and that is as valid a method as registering guns.........

Again......do you acknowledge that criminals...felons do not have to register illegal guns under Haynes v. United States.....?

How does requiring law abiding gun owners to do paperwork keep criminals, who cannot legally own guns in the first place, from getting illegal guns....

I am calling you out....explain the mechanics of gun registration....how it physically stops a criminal or mass shooter from getting an illegal gun.........

If your going to quote me, don't respond to something altogether different. I said registration keeps people in possession of unregistered firearms off the streets.

 

[2aguy]

Great. One down. Have a nice day while the rest of us discuss gun control.

View attachment 85287
Good luck repealing that one...

Not necessary. Our court will clarify its purpose and meaning as it is applied to 21st century America.

And as a matter of fact, prior to Heller, the 2nd Amendment was basically read to apply only to organized militias. No "self defense" right was ever read into it. No justice ever claimed all citizens were entitled to guns. Such an absurd idea was never contemplated by the court. Not til Scalia and his "literal" interpretation of the 2nd Amendment (which just so happened to omit the words "well regulated" I guess?)

Moreover, even Scalia recognized that the decision didn't mean any person should be able to have access to any kind of gun at any time.

Sorry..that is not true........not even close...the Right to bear arms was recognized in earlier decisions...and actually predates the Bill of Rights.......

But please..keep reminding us that you don't want people to own guns......you and you German cousins believe the same thing?.amd that didn't turn out well for 12 million unarmed Europeans.....or those murdered in the Balkans in the 90s?.all unarmed people who believed their government would protect them...and they probably believed that right up until the gas choked them to death....

 

[Al Azar]

"... shall not be infringed" needs to be taken in context. The foundation for the entire constitution is encapsulated in its preamble, where it sets forth the function of our government to "promote the common welfare". It's hard to rationalize blocking public safety efforts as being in the spirit of promoting our welfare, but some folks sure manage to twist and torture its meaning to promote their agenda of fear.

How does the government knowing where all the LEGAL guns are "promote the general welfare"?
How has background checks promoted the general welfare?
More to the point, just how much freedom and liberty are you willing to give up to feel safe? Me, I'll feel pretty safe with a Glock on my hip, but you go ahead and do what you do to feel safe.

When you know who the registered owner of a firearm is, you know who isn't. Penalizing possession of a firearm not registered to the bearer is one of the three gun control steps I explained at the git-go, oh so long ago, before we we got off-track into a 2nd Amendment argument.

If someone has a gun and is a criminal....you can arrest them without needing to register guns......it is already the law. If the person has a gun....and has no criminal record....again.....there is no need to register that gun.....if he is stopped by police they run his name and birth date...if no record pops up......no arrest is necessary.....

you just want another layer of inneffective paperwork...and more legal jeapordy for gun owners....why is that?

As it stands now, a criminal may have every right to gun ownership because there is no registration requirement. Such registration doesn't infringe on the rights of a law-abiding citizen but will make it impossible for the criminal to legally possess a gun, increasing the penalty for his misdeeds if he is in possession of a gun.

 

[2aguy]

More people than ever are applying for and getting concealed carry permits
Have there been running gun fights in the streets by people with legal CCW permits?

No in fact CCW permit holders tend to be some of the most peaceful law abiding people in society who would rather avoid a situation where they might have to use their weapons than play tough guy

And they have traditionally received those permits following background checks, firearms registration and training.

Oh, and no infringement of rights.

and yet criminals don't do any of those things...and 90% of gun murders are committed by criminals who cannot legally buy, own or carry guns..........

Again....you refuse to say what gun registration actually does.......do you acknowledge that criminals do not have to register illegal guns....via Haynes v. United States.....which means only normal people will be required to register their guns....how does that stop gun murder exactly?

and you can't register fully automatic rifles in France......yet they are easily gotten by French criminals.....and terrorists on government watch lists.........

Registration keeps people in possession of unregistered weapons off the streets. This has been explained.

No...it hasn't ....you said if you register guns it keeps unregistered guns off the street.....and provided no explanation as to how that happens.....

I say if you sprinkle pixie dust in the woods during a full moon it will keep guns off the streets....and that is as valid a method as registering guns.........

Again......do you acknowledge that criminals...felons do not have to register illegal guns under Haynes v. United States.....?

How does requiring law abiding gun owners to do paperwork keep criminals, who cannot legally own guns in the first place, from getting illegal guns....

I am calling you out....explain the mechanics of gun registration....how it physically stops a criminal or mass shooter from getting an illegal gun.........

If your going to quote me, don't respond to something altogether different. I said registration keeps people in possession of unregistered firearms off the streets.

How? There are felons right now...shooting people in Chicago with guns they cannot own or carry......who are not requir d to register those guns...and yet they are carrying them...right now...and shooting people with them....

How does registration physically stop anyone from carrying an unregistered gun?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

More people than ever are applying for and getting concealed carry permits
Have there been running gun fights in the streets by people with legal CCW permits?

No in fact CCW permit holders tend to be some of the most peaceful law abiding people in society who would rather avoid a situation where they might have to use their weapons than play tough guy

And they have traditionally received those permits following background checks, firearms registration and training.

Oh, and no infringement of rights.

and yet criminals don't do any of those things...and 90% of gun murders are committed by criminals who cannot legally buy, own or carry guns..........

Again....you refuse to say what gun registration actually does.......do you acknowledge that criminals do not have to register illegal guns....via Haynes v. United States.....which means only normal people will be required to register their guns....how does that stop gun murder exactly?

and you can't register fully automatic rifles in France......yet they are easily gotten by French criminals.....and terrorists on government watch lists.........

Registration keeps people in possession of unregistered weapons off the streets. This has been explained.

No...it hasn't ....you said if you register guns it keeps unregistered guns off the street.....and provided no explanation as to how that happens.....

I say if you sprinkle pixie dust in the woods during a full moon it will keep guns off the streets....and that is as valid a method as registering guns.........

Again......do you acknowledge that criminals...felons do not have to register illegal guns under Haynes v. United States.....?

How does requiring law abiding gun owners to do paperwork keep criminals, who cannot legally own guns in the first place, from getting illegal guns....

I am calling you out....explain the mechanics of gun registration....how it physically stops a criminal or mass shooter from getting an illegal gun.........

If your going to quote me, don't respond to something altogether different. I said registration keeps people in possession of unregistered firearms off the streets.

How do you figure?

 

[2aguy]

"... shall not be infringed" needs to be taken in context. The foundation for the entire constitution is encapsulated in its preamble, where it sets forth the function of our government to "promote the common welfare". It's hard to rationalize blocking public safety efforts as being in the spirit of promoting our welfare, but some folks sure manage to twist and torture its meaning to promote their agenda of fear.

How does the government knowing where all the LEGAL guns are "promote the general welfare"?
How has background checks promoted the general welfare?
More to the point, just how much freedom and liberty are you willing to give up to feel safe? Me, I'll feel pretty safe with a Glock on my hip, but you go ahead and do what you do to feel safe.

When you know who the registered owner of a firearm is, you know who isn't. Penalizing possession of a firearm not registered to the bearer is one of the three gun control steps I explained at the git-go, oh so long ago, before we we got off-track into a 2nd Amendment argument.

If someone has a gun and is a criminal....you can arrest them without needing to register guns......it is already the law. If the person has a gun....and has no criminal record....again.....there is no need to register that gun.....if he is stopped by police they run his name and birth date...if no record pops up......no arrest is necessary.....

you just want another layer of inneffective paperwork...and more legal jeapordy for gun owners....why is that?

As it stands now, a criminal may have every right to gun ownership because there is no registration requirement. Such registration doesn't infringe on the rights of a law-abiding citizen but will make it impossible for the criminal to legally possess a gun, increasing the penalty for his misdeeds if he is in possession of a gun.

Felons are already barred from legally buying, owning or carrying a gun....if they are stopped by police and found with any gun...they can be arrested and sent to prison....right now...under existing law........

Registering the guns of law abiding gun owners does not add to that process....in any way, shape or form..........

 

[Al Azar]

The rebels and the military both used the same classes of weapons.

Now, back to personal nuclear weaponry...

What the hell does a nuke have to do with it?

To protect us, to put us on an even footing with our potential enemy, the US Armed Forces. That was the intent of the founding fathers when they gave us the right to bear arms, according to what I read here.

Yep......

One of your comrades just admitted that, despite claims that the founding fathers wanted citizens to arm themselves against an oppressive government, we don't need to worry about that anymore so it doesn't matter what they intended. You two need to sort this out and then attempt to present a united argument, such as it may be.

We need to worry about our government....just ask the Germans...they registered their guns using the same dumb ass arguments you are using right now....the exact same arguments.....when they trusted their government, and expected it to protect them.....20 years later....their government sent 12 million Europeans to the gas chambers....unarmed Europeans....

We get it. The Nazis did very bad things. Can we get back to gun control in the 21st century US now?

 

[2aguy]

I swear....they type things and think that makes them actually exist.......they type ....gun registration will stop criminals.......and that is it...that means it works........no explanation of how it physically works...they type it so that means it works.......

They do not have fully formed reasoning centers in their brains...

 

[Al Azar]

The rebels and the military both used the same classes of weapons.

Now, back to personal nuclear weaponry...

What the hell does a nuke have to do with it?

To protect us, to put us on an even footing with our potential enemy, the US Armed Forces. That was the intent of the founding fathers when they gave us the right to bear arms, according to what I read here.

Yep......

One of your comrades just admitted that, despite claims that the founding fathers wanted citizens to arm themselves against an oppressive government, we don't need to worry about that anymore so it doesn't matter what they intended. You two need to sort this out and then attempt to present a united argument, such as it may be.

I see you ignored my response...
Typical of liberals,when it's something they cant answer they ignore it.

I addressed your one-word response by showing how it conflicted with a statement of one of your fellow travelers.

 

[2aguy]

What the hell does a nuke have to do with it?

To protect us, to put us on an even footing with our potential enemy, the US Armed Forces. That was the intent of the founding fathers when they gave us the right to bear arms, according to what I read here.

Yep......

One of your comrades just admitted that, despite claims that the founding fathers wanted citizens to arm themselves against an oppressive government, we don't need to worry about that anymore so it doesn't matter what they intended. You two need to sort this out and then attempt to present a united argument, such as it may be.

We need to worry about our government....just ask the Germans...they registered their guns using the same dumb ass arguments you are using right now....the exact same arguments.....when they trusted their government, and expected it to protect them.....20 years later....their government sent 12 million Europeans to the gas chambers....unarmed Europeans....

We get it. The Nazis did very bad things. Can we get back to gun control in the 21st century US now?

That is getting back to gun control in the 21st century.........they disarmed their people and 20 years later murdered them...because the people didn't have guns..........same thing happened in the Balkans in the 90s...and Rwanda in the 90s.....and it is happening right now in Mexico.....today........again and again unarmed people are murdered by their governments...or the government can't stop one group from slaughtering another group......and you guys pretend like that has no bearing on current discussions......

 

[Al Azar]

And they have traditionally received those permits following background checks, firearms registration and training.

Oh, and no infringement of rights.

and yet criminals don't do any of those things...and 90% of gun murders are committed by criminals who cannot legally buy, own or carry guns..........

Again....you refuse to say what gun registration actually does.......do you acknowledge that criminals do not have to register illegal guns....via Haynes v. United States.....which means only normal people will be required to register their guns....how does that stop gun murder exactly?

and you can't register fully automatic rifles in France......yet they are easily gotten by French criminals.....and terrorists on government watch lists.........

Registration keeps people in possession of unregistered weapons off the streets. This has been explained.

No...it hasn't ....you said if you register guns it keeps unregistered guns off the street.....and provided no explanation as to how that happens.....

I say if you sprinkle pixie dust in the woods during a full moon it will keep guns off the streets....and that is as valid a method as registering guns.........

Again......do you acknowledge that criminals...felons do not have to register illegal guns under Haynes v. United States.....?

How does requiring law abiding gun owners to do paperwork keep criminals, who cannot legally own guns in the first place, from getting illegal guns....

I am calling you out....explain the mechanics of gun registration....how it physically stops a criminal or mass shooter from getting an illegal gun.........

If your going to quote me, don't respond to something altogether different. I said registration keeps people in possession of unregistered firearms off the streets.

How? There are felons right now...shooting people in Chicago with guns they cannot own or carry......who are not requir d to register those guns...and yet they are carrying them...right now...and shooting people with them....

How does registration physically stop anyone from carrying an unregistered gun?

I don't see how it could. What an extraordinary question.

See post #10: ... serious penalties for possession of firearm not registered the bearer...

 

[Al Azar]

And they have traditionally received those permits following background checks, firearms registration and training.

Oh, and no infringement of rights.

and yet criminals don't do any of those things...and 90% of gun murders are committed by criminals who cannot legally buy, own or carry guns..........

Again....you refuse to say what gun registration actually does.......do you acknowledge that criminals do not have to register illegal guns....via Haynes v. United States.....which means only normal people will be required to register their guns....how does that stop gun murder exactly?

and you can't register fully automatic rifles in France......yet they are easily gotten by French criminals.....and terrorists on government watch lists.........

Registration keeps people in possession of unregistered weapons off the streets. This has been explained.

No...it hasn't ....you said if you register guns it keeps unregistered guns off the street.....and provided no explanation as to how that happens.....

I say if you sprinkle pixie dust in the woods during a full moon it will keep guns off the streets....and that is as valid a method as registering guns.........

Again......do you acknowledge that criminals...felons do not have to register illegal guns under Haynes v. United States.....?

How does requiring law abiding gun owners to do paperwork keep criminals, who cannot legally own guns in the first place, from getting illegal guns....

I am calling you out....explain the mechanics of gun registration....how it physically stops a criminal or mass shooter from getting an illegal gun.........

If your going to quote me, don't respond to something altogether different. I said registration keeps people in possession of unregistered firearms off the streets.

How do you figure?

Sigh. Post #10, step 3.