Anti gun activists upset...more guns = less gun suicide...

[2aguy]

Yes....as Americans have bought, own and carried more guns.....the gun suicide rate has been dropping......

U.S. Adds Nearly 200 Million Privately Owned Guns, Firearm Suicide Rate Decreases - Breitbart

From 1981 to 2013 the U.S. added 195 million privately owned firearms and the firearm-related suicide rate fell by five percent.


This is significant when one considers that firearm-related suicide is actually the category that drives gun violence numbers used by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence and the various gun control groups funded by Michael Bloomberg.

In fact, “with firearm murder and firearm accident death rates…at historic lows,” Bloomberg’s Center for Gun Policy at John Hopkins University has set it sights on pushing gun control as a solution to suicide.

The problem they face is that Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) numbers show that a decrease in the firearm-related suicide rate correlated with an increase in the number of privately owned firearms.

According to the NRA-ILA, CDC numbers “[covering] years 1981 through 2013″ show “the firearm suicide rate (the number of suicides per 100,000 population) decreased five percent” at the very time that the U.S. added nearly 200 million privately owned guns.

It is interesting to note that while “the firearm suicide rate” fell 5 percent, “the non-firearm suicide rate increased 27 percent.”

Hmmmmm....for the anti gun extremists....awkward....

So, does this mean that since Japan, South Korea and China have absolute gun control and way higher suicide rates than we do...that in order to lower their suicide rates to our level..they should let their people own guns?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"Anti gun activists upset"

There are no 'anti-gun activists,' nor are they 'upset,' given the fact they don't exist. Advocating for firearms regulations that comport with current Second Amendment jurisprudence doesn't make one 'anti-gun,' and no one is seeking to 'ban' the availability of all guns in any jurisdiction, or seeking to 'confiscate' guns in any jurisdiction – it's a lie to maintain otherwise.

"U.S. Adds Nearly 200 Million Privately Owned Guns, Firearm Suicide Rate Decreases - Breitbart"

And this fails as a confusion of correlation and causation fallacy, there is no 'evidence' that the increase in the number of privately own firearms resulted in a 'decrease' in firearm suicides.

Last, only an idiot would believe something from Breitbart.

 

[2aguy]

"Anti gun activists upset"

There are no 'anti-gun activists,' nor are they 'upset,' given the fact they don't exist. Advocating for firearms regulations that comport with current Second Amendment jurisprudence doesn't make one 'anti-gun,' and no one is seeking to 'ban' the availability of all guns in any jurisdiction, or seeking to 'confiscate' guns in any jurisdiction – it's a lie to maintain otherwise.

"U.S. Adds Nearly 200 Million Privately Owned Guns, Firearm Suicide Rate Decreases - Breitbart"

And this fails as a confusion of correlation and causation fallacy, there is no 'evidence' that the increase in the number of privately own firearms resulted in a 'decrease' in firearm suicides.

Last, only an idiot would believe something from Breitbart.

Well…allow me to retort….you silly ass wipe…]

The anti gun extremists say that access to gun means more people will commit suicide…every time they bring it up we counter it……

This time…it has now been shown that as more Americans own and carry guns for self defense, the suicide rate using guns went down, not up. And the other methods of suicide went up. So again, as in all things related to Americans owning guns, the anti gun extremists are wrong.

 

[M14 Shooter]

"Anti gun activists upset"
There are no 'anti-gun activists,'...

This is, of course, an absolute lie.

 

[Skylar]

"Anti gun activists upset"

There are no 'anti-gun activists,' nor are they 'upset,' given the fact they don't exist. Advocating for firearms regulations that comport with current Second Amendment jurisprudence doesn't make one 'anti-gun,' and no one is seeking to 'ban' the availability of all guns in any jurisdiction, or seeking to 'confiscate' guns in any jurisdiction – it's a lie to maintain otherwise.

"U.S. Adds Nearly 200 Million Privately Owned Guns, Firearm Suicide Rate Decreases - Breitbart"

And this fails as a confusion of correlation and causation fallacy, there is no 'evidence' that the increase in the number of privately own firearms resulted in a 'decrease' in firearm suicides.

Last, only an idiot would believe something from Breitbart.

Yeah, especially when the presence of a gun in the home doubles the odds of suicide in that home. The rate of suicide attempts doesn't appreciably change with a gun in the home. But when a gun is used as a method of suicide attempt....the attempt overwhelmingly succeeds.

About 97% of suicide attempts in general fail.

About 5% of suicide attempts with a gun fail.

There's your difference. The success/failure numbers are literally inverted when a gun is involved.

 

[David_42]

"Anti gun activists upset"

There are no 'anti-gun activists,' nor are they 'upset,' given the fact they don't exist. Advocating for firearms regulations that comport with current Second Amendment jurisprudence doesn't make one 'anti-gun,' and no one is seeking to 'ban' the availability of all guns in any jurisdiction, or seeking to 'confiscate' guns in any jurisdiction – it's a lie to maintain otherwise.

"U.S. Adds Nearly 200 Million Privately Owned Guns, Firearm Suicide Rate Decreases - Breitbart"

And this fails as a confusion of correlation and causation fallacy, there is no 'evidence' that the increase in the number of privately own firearms resulted in a 'decrease' in firearm suicides.

Last, only an idiot would believe something from Breitbart.

Yeah, especially when the presence of a gun in the home doubles the odds of suicide in that home. The rate of suicide attempts doesn't appreciably change with a gun in the home. But when a gun is used as a method of suicide attempt....the attempt overwhelmingly succeeds.

The OP doesn't seem to understand common sense. If a child has a handgun and a knife, and is planning to commit suicide, it's a lot harder mentally to use a knife.. Guns are a quick and painless way.. Anyone who argues more guns lowers suicide is truly stupid.

 

[2aguy]

"Anti gun activists upset"

There are no 'anti-gun activists,' nor are they 'upset,' given the fact they don't exist. Advocating for firearms regulations that comport with current Second Amendment jurisprudence doesn't make one 'anti-gun,' and no one is seeking to 'ban' the availability of all guns in any jurisdiction, or seeking to 'confiscate' guns in any jurisdiction – it's a lie to maintain otherwise.

"U.S. Adds Nearly 200 Million Privately Owned Guns, Firearm Suicide Rate Decreases - Breitbart"

And this fails as a confusion of correlation and causation fallacy, there is no 'evidence' that the increase in the number of privately own firearms resulted in a 'decrease' in firearm suicides.

Last, only an idiot would believe something from Breitbart.

Yeah, especially when the presence of a gun in the home doubles the odds of suicide in that home. The rate of suicide attempts doesn't appreciably change with a gun in the home. But when a gun is used as a method of suicide attempt....the attempt overwhelmingly succeeds.

About 97% of suicide attempts in general fail.

About 5% of suicide attempts with a gun fail.

There's your difference. The success/failure numbers are literally inverted when a gun is involved.

Except.....in Japan....China.....South Korea...with absolute gun control and they committ suicied without guns at 2 times our rate.......and Poland.....and Russia.....and Hungary....far more extreme gun control and they kill themselves at a greater rate than we do...........

And those are all successful suicide attempts...at 2 times our entire rate........without guns.....

Rope is the most common suicide method around the world.

 

[guno]

Yes....as Americans have bought, own and carried more guns.....the gun suicide rate has been dropping......

U.S. Adds Nearly 200 Million Privately Owned Guns, Firearm Suicide Rate Decreases - Breitbart

From 1981 to 2013 the U.S. added 195 million privately owned firearms and the firearm-related suicide rate fell by five percent.


This is significant when one considers that firearm-related suicide is actually the category that drives gun violence numbers used by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence and the various gun control groups funded by Michael Bloomberg.

In fact, “with firearm murder and firearm accident death rates…at historic lows,” Bloomberg’s Center for Gun Policy at John Hopkins University has set it sights on pushing gun control as a solution to suicide.

The problem they face is that Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) numbers show that a decrease in the firearm-related suicide rate correlated with an increase in the number of privately owned firearms.

According to the NRA-ILA, CDC numbers “[covering] years 1981 through 2013″ show “the firearm suicide rate (the number of suicides per 100,000 population) decreased five percent” at the very time that the U.S. added nearly 200 million privately owned guns.

It is interesting to note that while “the firearm suicide rate” fell 5 percent, “the non-firearm suicide rate increased 27 percent.”

Hmmmmm....for the anti gun extremists....awkward....

So, does this mean that since Japan, South Korea and China have absolute gun control and way higher suicide rates than we do...that in order to lower their suicide rates to our level..they should let their people own guns?

Do you shoot your guns off while bowing to statues of your godman?

 

[2aguy]

"Anti gun activists upset"

There are no 'anti-gun activists,' nor are they 'upset,' given the fact they don't exist. Advocating for firearms regulations that comport with current Second Amendment jurisprudence doesn't make one 'anti-gun,' and no one is seeking to 'ban' the availability of all guns in any jurisdiction, or seeking to 'confiscate' guns in any jurisdiction – it's a lie to maintain otherwise.

"U.S. Adds Nearly 200 Million Privately Owned Guns, Firearm Suicide Rate Decreases - Breitbart"

And this fails as a confusion of correlation and causation fallacy, there is no 'evidence' that the increase in the number of privately own firearms resulted in a 'decrease' in firearm suicides.

Last, only an idiot would believe something from Breitbart.

Yeah, especially when the presence of a gun in the home doubles the odds of suicide in that home. The rate of suicide attempts doesn't appreciably change with a gun in the home. But when a gun is used as a method of suicide attempt....the attempt overwhelmingly succeeds.

The OP doesn't seem to understand common sense. If a child has a handgun and a knife, and is planning to commit suicide, it's a lot harder mentally to use a knife.. Guns are a quick and painless way.. Anyone who argues more guns lowers suicide is truly stupid.

Your reading comprehension needs some work....

gun suicide rate....down 5% as more Americans own and carry guns for self defense

That means fewer people are committing suicide with guns.....

other suicide methods....that means killing yourself without a gun.......up 19%....that means 19% more people are using something that is not a gun to kill themselves......

In a country of over 320 million guns in private hands.....

There...I hope that helps.

 

[Skylar]

"Anti gun activists upset"

There are no 'anti-gun activists,' nor are they 'upset,' given the fact they don't exist. Advocating for firearms regulations that comport with current Second Amendment jurisprudence doesn't make one 'anti-gun,' and no one is seeking to 'ban' the availability of all guns in any jurisdiction, or seeking to 'confiscate' guns in any jurisdiction – it's a lie to maintain otherwise.

"U.S. Adds Nearly 200 Million Privately Owned Guns, Firearm Suicide Rate Decreases - Breitbart"

And this fails as a confusion of correlation and causation fallacy, there is no 'evidence' that the increase in the number of privately own firearms resulted in a 'decrease' in firearm suicides.

Last, only an idiot would believe something from Breitbart.

Yeah, especially when the presence of a gun in the home doubles the odds of suicide in that home. The rate of suicide attempts doesn't appreciably change with a gun in the home. But when a gun is used as a method of suicide attempt....the attempt overwhelmingly succeeds.

About 97% of suicide attempts in general fail.

About 5% of suicide attempts with a gun fail.

There's your difference. The success/failure numbers are literally inverted when a gun is involved.

Except.....in Japan....China.....South Korea...with absolute gun control and they committ suicied without guns at 2 times our rate.......and Poland.....and Russia.....and Hungary....far more extreme gun control and they kill themselves at a greater rate than we do...........

And those are all successful suicide attempts...at 2 times our entire rate........without guns.....

Rope is the most common suicide method around the world.

And in our country, the presence of a gun in the home doubles the rate of suicide. Without a gun, suicide rates drop dramatically.

The mechanism has already been described to you: the vastly higher rates of an attempt succeeding when you use a gun. Literally inverting the success/failure numbers from 3% success 97% failure for suicide rates in general to 95% success 5% failure when a gun is used.

Last time we discussed this you didn't even disagree with me. You just kept trying to argue why it didn't matter. And of course, you were wrong.

You have no mechanism of causation with your 'national rate' nonsense. Which, of course, you know. Even your own source cites a 'correlation'. Which would include El Nino and episodes of the Mentalist during the same time period.

I can establish a mechanism of causation. Directly and immediately. One you've already conceded.

 

[2aguy]

"Anti gun activists upset"

There are no 'anti-gun activists,' nor are they 'upset,' given the fact they don't exist. Advocating for firearms regulations that comport with current Second Amendment jurisprudence doesn't make one 'anti-gun,' and no one is seeking to 'ban' the availability of all guns in any jurisdiction, or seeking to 'confiscate' guns in any jurisdiction – it's a lie to maintain otherwise.

"U.S. Adds Nearly 200 Million Privately Owned Guns, Firearm Suicide Rate Decreases - Breitbart"

And this fails as a confusion of correlation and causation fallacy, there is no 'evidence' that the increase in the number of privately own firearms resulted in a 'decrease' in firearm suicides.

Last, only an idiot would believe something from Breitbart.

Yeah, especially when the presence of a gun in the home doubles the odds of suicide in that home. The rate of suicide attempts doesn't appreciably change with a gun in the home. But when a gun is used as a method of suicide attempt....the attempt overwhelmingly succeeds.

About 97% of suicide attempts in general fail.

About 5% of suicide attempts with a gun fail.

There's your difference. The success/failure numbers are literally inverted when a gun is involved.

Except.....in Japan....China.....South Korea...with absolute gun control and they committ suicied without guns at 2 times our rate.......and Poland.....and Russia.....and Hungary....far more extreme gun control and they kill themselves at a greater rate than we do...........

And those are all successful suicide attempts...at 2 times our entire rate........without guns.....

Rope is the most common suicide method around the world.

And in our country, the presence of a gun in the home doubles the rate of suicide. Without a gun, suicide rates drop dramatically.

The mechanism has already been described to you: the vastly higher rates of an attempt succeeding when you use a gun. Literally inverting the success/failure numbers from 3% success 97% failure for suicide rates in general to 95% success 5% failure when a gun is used.

Last time we discussed this you didn't even disagree with me. You just kept trying to argue why it didn't matter. And of course, you were wrong.

You have no mechanism of causation with your 'national rate' nonsense. Which, of course, you know. Even your own source cites a 'correlation'. Which would include El Nino and episodes of the Mentalist during the same time period.

I can establish a mechanism of causation. Directly and immediately. One you've already conceded.

No...alcohol, drug use and mental illness increase the chance of suicide....and again...Japan, China, and South Korea have no access to guns...and committ suicide at 2 times our rate.

And again...gun suicide rates are down 5% while non gun suicide rates are up 19%.....

People in countries without access to guns commit suicide.....so guns are not the issue.

 

[M14 Shooter]

About 97% of suicide attempts in general fail.
About 5% of suicide attempts with a gun fail.
There's your difference. The success/failure numbers are literally inverted when a gun is involved.

Wait....guns are an effective way to kill people?
Well duh -- that's why our right to own and use them is specifically protected from infringement by the constitution.

 

[M14 Shooter]

And in our country, the presence of a gun in the home doubles the rate of suicide

This is a lie; you know that you cannot soundly support this statement.

 

[Correll]

"Anti gun activists upset"

There are no 'anti-gun activists,' nor are they 'upset,' given the fact they don't exist. Advocating for firearms regulations that comport with current Second Amendment jurisprudence doesn't make one 'anti-gun,' and no one is seeking to 'ban' the availability of all guns in any jurisdiction, or seeking to 'confiscate' guns in any jurisdiction – it's a lie to maintain otherwise.

"U.S. Adds Nearly 200 Million Privately Owned Guns, Firearm Suicide Rate Decreases - Breitbart"

And this fails as a confusion of correlation and causation fallacy, there is no 'evidence' that the increase in the number of privately own firearms resulted in a 'decrease' in firearm suicides.

Last, only an idiot would believe something from Breitbart.

Yeah, especially when the presence of a gun in the home doubles the odds of suicide in that home. The rate of suicide attempts doesn't appreciably change with a gun in the home. But when a gun is used as a method of suicide attempt....the attempt overwhelmingly succeeds.

About 97% of suicide attempts in general fail.

About 5% of suicide attempts with a gun fail.

There's your difference. The success/failure numbers are literally inverted when a gun is involved.

Except.....in Japan....China.....South Korea...with absolute gun control and they committ suicied without guns at 2 times our rate.......and Poland.....and Russia.....and Hungary....far more extreme gun control and they kill themselves at a greater rate than we do...........

And those are all successful suicide attempts...at 2 times our entire rate........without guns.....

Rope is the most common suicide method around the world.

And in our country, the presence of a gun in the home doubles the rate of suicide. Without a gun, suicide rates drop dramatically.

The mechanism has already been described to you: the vastly higher rates of an attempt succeeding when you use a gun. Literally inverting the success/failure numbers from 3% success 97% failure for suicide rates in general to 95% success 5% failure when a gun is used.

Last time we discussed this you didn't even disagree with me. You just kept trying to argue why it didn't matter. And of course, you were wrong.

You have no mechanism of causation with your 'national rate' nonsense. Which, of course, you know. Even your own source cites a 'correlation'. Which would include El Nino and episodes of the Mentalist during the same time period.

I can establish a mechanism of causation. Directly and immediately. One you've already conceded.

If I may go off topic for a moment?

In another thread, Toxicmedia is attacking the idea that liberals want to get rid of guns.

Now, the argument you present here, makes no distinction between handguns, shotguns, rifles, assault rifles, historical black power blunderbusses....

Your stats make the argument that any guns in the house leads to dead Americans.

So, what is your solution that you are working towards with this argument of yours?

Do you want to some nuanced "common sense" gun control, or do you want to vastly reduce the presence of guns in the hands of common citizens?