Antifa Communism Rejected in Spain

[Lucy Hamilton]

Well, if Churchill, and FDR aren't any better than Franco, why do so many people in the West support them?

You misunderstand me.

I think that Churchill and FDR were much better than Franco

What about Truman?

Him too.

So Truman is better than Franco? Truman who dropped Atomic Bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki when the Japanese were already beginning a surrender process, but he was responsible for murdering innocent people because he wanted to show the Soviets America had the Atomic Bomb....and Truman is better than Franco?

Bizarro.

I don't know why you're having such a hard time wrapping your head around this. You're a nationalist, after all.

Truman killed the enemy that we were at war with. Franco killed his own citizens.

What is a Nationalist? It is someone who has love of nation, is patriotic and wants to preserve their culture and traditions and not have outside influence dictating what is not their business, this is what a Nationalist is.

Truman didn't kill the enemy, how were innocent Japanese women, children, elderly peoples the enemy? Also as I commented the Japanese were in the process of surrendering when the Atomic Bombs were dropped which makes it two times more heinous.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Okay then about Republicanism in America also.

I refer to Leftists in general openly admire Communist Dictators.

Well, here's the thing - you're not talking to "leftists in general".

You're talking to me. I am not responsible for what others on the left believe. I am only responsible for what I believe - just as you are only responsible for what you believe.

We are discussing our beliefs - yours, and mine - not the beliefs of vaguely defined unnamed groups.

All these people are long dead Franco, Pinochet, Videla, so I don't know why all the excitement we are in 2017 we do not live in the past. Some people want to live in the past of course but that is not my problem, I live in today and tomorrow.

Ok, well - right here, today - you praised a fascist dictator as a "GREAT man".

Why are you now taking issue with the fact that I'm trying to discuss a post you made less than half an hour ago?

Yes I did but he's been dead for decades.

I'm not taking an issue, I'm saying why all the excitement about someone who has been dead for decades? I do not exist in the past, I exist in today and tomorrow.

Dead and all 3 nazis have been rejected by their countries. Evil bastards.

This old fella fought the fascists in Spain and lived down the road from me in his later years. He was a local legend.
BBC - Gogledd Ddwyrain - Twm Sbaen

When is your Britain going to stop supporting in mass Cromwell, or Churchill who were also mass murdering tyrants?

 

[francoHFW]

So killing ones own citizens is an abomination.

Well you better go tell that to those who support Abraham Lincoln.

If a geographical section of the country rebels militarily, then that's a war.

Franco sent a little less than half a million of his own citizens to camps or their deaths, in peacetime.

Your moral equivalency fails on numerous levels.

Stalin killed his own citizens and most of them not during a war situation, again the 7 million Ukranians deliberately starved to death happen in 1932-1933, yet Churchill and FDR never demanded that Stalin be put to the rope.

Also during the near 50 years Eastern Europe given to the Communist rule, thousands and thousands of those Stalin butchers lived happily and the British and Americans never one time demanded that Stalin's butchers be arrested and put on trial.

Lazar Kaganovich who was the architect of the Holomodor lived until 1991, yet the British and Americans did not demand he was arrested and put on trial for Crimes Against Humanity for being directly responsible for 7 million people being deliberately starved to death in a non wartime situation and just because they "were in the way"

View attachment 153144

View attachment 153145

Lazar Kaganovich - Wikipedia

This article from the New York Times announcing his death at the age of 97 years of age does not even mention he was the architect of the Holomodor or even mention the Holomodor.

View attachment 153146

L. M. Kaganovich, Stalwart of Stalin, Dies at 97

No shit.


Stalin was a shitfuck. Amongst the worst people who have ever lived.

How is that relevant to the post you responded to?

Because you keep saying that Franco killed his own citizens, not because they disagreed with him though he saw them as a threat to Spain because they were Communists.

Stalin had 7 million Ukranians starved to death because they were in the way, they were starved to death just to reduce the population number, they were not a threat to the existence of the Soviet Union.

• Because of the allied Potsdam, and Yalta Conference Soviet takeover of Poland, gave that Jewish Communist Jakub Berman to imprison up to 500,000 Polish people for political crimes, many of these were Armia Krajowa Polish patriots who fought the Nazis vigorously.

The fact is the Communists took away the opposition in that exact manner.

Totalitarians from both ends of the political Spectrum are like that... Nazis and communists in other words.

What side of the spectrum are those?

Fascism is moderate Socialism, and Communism is extreme Socialism.

Communism is totalitarian where the state owns all of business and industry. Socialism is always democratic and is the highest form of government as far as I can see. Nazism is only socialist in its propaganda... Don't listen to that crap. Fascism is right wing totalitarianism where capitalism continues but his under the thumb of the state like everything else. Memorize this paragraph.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

If a geographical section of the country rebels militarily, then that's a war.

Franco sent a little less than half a million of his own citizens to camps or their deaths, in peacetime.

Your moral equivalency fails on numerous levels.

No shit.


Stalin was a shitfuck. Amongst the worst people who have ever lived.

How is that relevant to the post you responded to?

Because you keep saying that Franco killed his own citizens, not because they disagreed with him though he saw them as a threat to Spain because they were Communists.

Stalin had 7 million Ukranians starved to death because they were in the way, they were starved to death just to reduce the population number, they were not a threat to the existence of the Soviet Union.

• Because of the allied Potsdam, and Yalta Conference Soviet takeover of Poland, gave that Jewish Communist Jakub Berman to imprison up to 500,000 Polish people for political crimes, many of these were Armia Krajowa Polish patriots who fought the Nazis vigorously.

The fact is the Communists took away the opposition in that exact manner.

Totalitarians from both ends of the political Spectrum are like that... Nazis and communists in other words.

What side of the spectrum are those?

Fascism is moderate Socialism, and Communism is extreme Socialism.

Communism is totalitarian where the state owns all of business and industry. Socialism is always democratic and is the highest form of government as far as I can see. Nazism is only socialist in its propaganda... Don't listen to that crap. Fascism is right wing totalitarianism where capitalism continues but his under the thumb of the state like everything else. Memorize this paragraph.

"Socialism is always democratic and is the highest form of government as far as I can see."

Tell that to Venezuela.

 

[francoHFW]

Well, here's the thing - you're not talking to "leftists in general".

You're talking to me. I am not responsible for what others on the left believe. I am only responsible for what I believe - just as you are only responsible for what you believe.

We are discussing our beliefs - yours, and mine - not the beliefs of vaguely defined unnamed groups.

All these people are long dead Franco, Pinochet, Videla, so I don't know why all the excitement we are in 2017 we do not live in the past. Some people want to live in the past of course but that is not my problem, I live in today and tomorrow.

Ok, well - right here, today - you praised a fascist dictator as a "GREAT man".

Why are you now taking issue with the fact that I'm trying to discuss a post you made less than half an hour ago?

Yes I did but he's been dead for decades.

I'm not taking an issue, I'm saying why all the excitement about someone who has been dead for decades? I do not exist in the past, I exist in today and tomorrow.

Dead and all 3 nazis have been rejected by their countries. Evil bastards.

This old fella fought the fascists in Spain and lived down the road from me in his later years. He was a local legend.
BBC - Gogledd Ddwyrain - Twm Sbaen

When is your Britain going to stop supporting in mass Cromwell, or Churchill who were also mass murdering tyrants?

Churchill was a great man but he was still a conservative warmonger. English conservatives are worse than any other western party except the GOP... Many of them are closet fascists, racist and colonists.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

If a geographical section of the country rebels militarily, then that's a war.

Franco sent a little less than half a million of his own citizens to camps or their deaths, in peacetime.

Your moral equivalency fails on numerous levels.

No shit.


Stalin was a shitfuck. Amongst the worst people who have ever lived.

How is that relevant to the post you responded to?

Because you keep saying that Franco killed his own citizens, not because they disagreed with him though he saw them as a threat to Spain because they were Communists.

Stalin had 7 million Ukranians starved to death because they were in the way, they were starved to death just to reduce the population number, they were not a threat to the existence of the Soviet Union.

• Because of the allied Potsdam, and Yalta Conference Soviet takeover of Poland, gave that Jewish Communist Jakub Berman to imprison up to 500,000 Polish people for political crimes, many of these were Armia Krajowa Polish patriots who fought the Nazis vigorously.

The fact is the Communists took away the opposition in that exact manner.

Totalitarians from both ends of the political Spectrum are like that... Nazis and communists in other words.

What side of the spectrum are those?

Fascism is moderate Socialism, and Communism is extreme Socialism.

Communism is totalitarian where the state owns all of business and industry. Socialism is always democratic and is the highest form of government as far as I can see. Nazism is only socialist in its propaganda... Don't listen to that crap. Fascism is right wing totalitarianism where capitalism continues but his under the thumb of the state like everything else. Memorize this paragraph.

National Socialist Germany was in fact Socialist.

Here's 2 Wiki articles proving it point blank.

German Labour Front - Wikipedia

Council of Trust - Wikipedia

 

[theDoctorisIn]

You misunderstand me.

I think that Churchill and FDR were much better than Franco

What about Truman?

Him too.

So Truman is better than Franco? Truman who dropped Atomic Bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki when the Japanese were already beginning a surrender process, but he was responsible for murdering innocent people because he wanted to show the Soviets America had the Atomic Bomb....and Truman is better than Franco?

Bizarro.

I don't know why you're having such a hard time wrapping your head around this. You're a nationalist, after all.

Truman killed the enemy that we were at war with. Franco killed his own citizens.

What is a Nationalist? It is someone who has love of nation, is patriotic and wants to preserve their culture and traditions and not have outside influence dictating what is not their business, this is what a Nationalist is.

No, that's not what a "Nationalist" is. But that's beside the point.

Truman didn't kill the enemy, how were innocent Japanese women, children, elderly peoples the enemy? Also as I commented the Japanese were in the process of surrendering when the Atomic Bombs were dropped which makes it two times more heinous.

Japan was not "in the process of surrendering". Some members of Japanese high command wanted to surrender. Others did not. No official process of surrender had started, no diplomatic conferences had occurred.

In addition, if you want to get into the atrocities of war, much can be said about what Japan did, as they expanded around South Asia.

 

[Dr Grump]

[

Franco, Pinochet and Videla were GREAT men, they saved Spain, Chile and Argentina from Communist vermin.

They turned their countries into what they claimed they were fighting against. Allende in Chile was a socialist, not a communist. I see the CIA propaganda has worked well on you...

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Because you keep saying that Franco killed his own citizens, not because they disagreed with him though he saw them as a threat to Spain because they were Communists.

Stalin had 7 million Ukranians starved to death because they were in the way, they were starved to death just to reduce the population number, they were not a threat to the existence of the Soviet Union.

• Because of the allied Potsdam, and Yalta Conference Soviet takeover of Poland, gave that Jewish Communist Jakub Berman to imprison up to 500,000 Polish people for political crimes, many of these were Armia Krajowa Polish patriots who fought the Nazis vigorously.

The fact is the Communists took away the opposition in that exact manner.

Totalitarians from both ends of the political Spectrum are like that... Nazis and communists in other words.

What side of the spectrum are those?

Fascism is moderate Socialism, and Communism is extreme Socialism.

Communism is totalitarian where the state owns all of business and industry. Socialism is always democratic and is the highest form of government as far as I can see. Nazism is only socialist in its propaganda... Don't listen to that crap. Fascism is right wing totalitarianism where capitalism continues but his under the thumb of the state like everything else. Memorize this paragraph.

National Socialist Germany was in fact Socialist.

Here's 2 Wiki articles proving it point blank.

German Labour Front - Wikipedia

Council of Trust - Wikipedia

Hitler had all the actual "socialists" in the NSDAP murdered during the Night of the Long Knives.

 

[francoHFW]

Because you keep saying that Franco killed his own citizens, not because they disagreed with him though he saw them as a threat to Spain because they were Communists.

Stalin had 7 million Ukranians starved to death because they were in the way, they were starved to death just to reduce the population number, they were not a threat to the existence of the Soviet Union.

• Because of the allied Potsdam, and Yalta Conference Soviet takeover of Poland, gave that Jewish Communist Jakub Berman to imprison up to 500,000 Polish people for political crimes, many of these were Armia Krajowa Polish patriots who fought the Nazis vigorously.

The fact is the Communists took away the opposition in that exact manner.

Totalitarians from both ends of the political Spectrum are like that... Nazis and communists in other words.

What side of the spectrum are those?

Fascism is moderate Socialism, and Communism is extreme Socialism.

Communism is totalitarian where the state owns all of business and industry. Socialism is always democratic and is the highest form of government as far as I can see. Nazism is only socialist in its propaganda... Don't listen to that crap. Fascism is right wing totalitarianism where capitalism continues but his under the thumb of the state like everything else. Memorize this paragraph.

"Socialism is always democratic and is the highest form of government as far as I can see."

Tell that to Venezuela.

Shove your Pavlov dog right-wing talking points up your ass. Venezuela is a third-world oil economy mess but it's still a democracy and manythe majority still love their social socialist government. When you think socialism think the EU France Germany UK Canada Japan Australia and New Zealand and yes the United States even though the u.s. is a Pander to the rich GOP mess, dupe.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

What about Truman?

Him too.

So Truman is better than Franco? Truman who dropped Atomic Bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki when the Japanese were already beginning a surrender process, but he was responsible for murdering innocent people because he wanted to show the Soviets America had the Atomic Bomb....and Truman is better than Franco?

Bizarro.

I don't know why you're having such a hard time wrapping your head around this. You're a nationalist, after all.

Truman killed the enemy that we were at war with. Franco killed his own citizens.

What is a Nationalist? It is someone who has love of nation, is patriotic and wants to preserve their culture and traditions and not have outside influence dictating what is not their business, this is what a Nationalist is.

No, that's not what a "Nationalist" is. But that's beside the point.

Truman didn't kill the enemy, how were innocent Japanese women, children, elderly peoples the enemy? Also as I commented the Japanese were in the process of surrendering when the Atomic Bombs were dropped which makes it two times more heinous.

Japan was not "in the process of surrendering". Some members of Japanese high command wanted to surrender. Others did not. No official process of surrender had started, no diplomatic conferences had occurred.

In addition, if you want to get into the atrocities of war, much can be said about what Japan did, as they expanded around South Asia.

"No, that's not what a "Nationalist" is. But that's beside the point."

Yes it is, it's not my problem that Americans and Leftist in general have a propaganda defination of what a Nationalist is.

I have told you what an actual Nationalist is, it is someone who has love of nation, is patriotic and wants to preserve their culture and traditions and not have outside influence dictating what is not their business.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Also, to put things in perspective:

During the bombing of Dresden, Allied bombers dropped a little less than 4,000 tons of explosives on the city.

In the 3 years before the bombing of Dresden, german bombers had dropped more than ten times as much on residential areas of England - including almost 20,000 tons just on the city of London.

To put things in perspective.

When London was bombed the Second War was in action and many of the places bombed not in London were strategic in a military way for the British including port areas etc.

When Dresden was bombed the war was reaching an end and there was nothing of military significance about Dresden, it was 100% a civilian target with all those being women, children, elderly peoples.

The nazis bombed my village in the war. An obscure pit village in North Wales with no military whatsoever. Fuck em. They brought Dresden on themselves.

 

[Dr Grump]

Franco was a fascist. That's what he called himself. He patterned his regime after Mussolini and Hitler, and they were his closest allies.

Up to page 880 of The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. Franco was this " " close to joining Hitler.

 

[francoHFW]

• Because of the allied Potsdam, and Yalta Conference Soviet takeover of Poland, gave that Jewish Communist Jakub Berman to imprison up to 500,000 Polish people for political crimes, many of these were Armia Krajowa Polish patriots who fought the Nazis vigorously.

The fact is the Communists took away the opposition in that exact manner.

Totalitarians from both ends of the political Spectrum are like that... Nazis and communists in other words.

What side of the spectrum are those?

Fascism is moderate Socialism, and Communism is extreme Socialism.

Communism is totalitarian where the state owns all of business and industry. Socialism is always democratic and is the highest form of government as far as I can see. Nazism is only socialist in its propaganda... Don't listen to that crap. Fascism is right wing totalitarianism where capitalism continues but his under the thumb of the state like everything else. Memorize this paragraph.

National Socialist Germany was in fact Socialist.

Here's 2 Wiki articles proving it point blank.

German Labour Front - Wikipedia

Council of Trust - Wikipedia

Hitler had all the actual "socialists" in the NSDAP murdered during the Night of the Long Knives.

The Socialists were the social Democrats whose leaders he put in concentration camps as soon as he could. The night of the Long Knives he got rid of the Nazis who we he thought might be against him... It was the night he decided to go with the Army and the generals and to get rid of the thugs who had brought him to power....

 

[francoHFW]

If a geographical section of the country rebels militarily, then that's a war.

Franco sent a little less than half a million of his own citizens to camps or their deaths, in peacetime.

Your moral equivalency fails on numerous levels.

Most of those were military men captured, and put into those camps.

This is a "fact" that you've pulled out of your ass, because you didn't have anything else.

Not, that I support that.

Glad to hear it.

I never said I truly support Franco.

What I'm defending is mostly Franco's economy in the Spanish Miracle.

I'm defending the right to support Franco how wrong he may have been, so long as people can support FDR, or Churchill.

No, the moral equivalency still fails.

Chris Kyle killed more than 3 times as many people as the most prolific serial killer in American history. Do you think that makes him 3 times as evil?

Well, if Churchill, and FDR aren't any better than Franco, why do so many people in the West support them?

You misunderstand me.

I think that Churchill and FDR were much better than Franco

What about Truman? He only dropped Atomic Bombs murdering innocent people to show the Soviet's America had the Atomic Bomb.

And to win the war without a costly invasion of Japan...

 

[Dr Grump]

Truman didn't kill the enemy, how were innocent Japanese women, children, elderly peoples the enemy? Also as I commented the Japanese were in the process of surrendering when the Atomic Bombs were dropped which makes it two times more heinous.

I don't know where you get your view of history from, but Japan was nowhere near surrendering. Most historians agree that the atomic bombs saved more lives. Japan would have fought to the last man. It was only after he saw the devastation of Hiroshima and Nagasaki that Hirohito agreed to the surrender.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

• Because of the allied Potsdam, and Yalta Conference Soviet takeover of Poland, gave that Jewish Communist Jakub Berman to imprison up to 500,000 Polish people for political crimes, many of these were Armia Krajowa Polish patriots who fought the Nazis vigorously.

The fact is the Communists took away the opposition in that exact manner.

Totalitarians from both ends of the political Spectrum are like that... Nazis and communists in other words.

What side of the spectrum are those?

Fascism is moderate Socialism, and Communism is extreme Socialism.

Communism is totalitarian where the state owns all of business and industry. Socialism is always democratic and is the highest form of government as far as I can see. Nazism is only socialist in its propaganda... Don't listen to that crap. Fascism is right wing totalitarianism where capitalism continues but his under the thumb of the state like everything else. Memorize this paragraph.

"Socialism is always democratic and is the highest form of government as far as I can see."

Tell that to Venezuela.

Shove your Pavlov dog right-wing talking points up your ass. Venezuela is a third-world oil economy mess but it's still a democracy and manythe majority still love their social socialist government. When you think socialism think the EU France Germany UK Canada Japan Australia and New Zealand and yes the United States even though the u.s. is a Pander to the rich GOP mess, dupe.

"Venezuela is a third-world oil economy mess but it's still a democracy and manythe majority still love their social socialist government."

Tell that to the Venezuela opposition parties and especially after Maduro's Constituent Assembly election which has made him Dictator.

In a Democracy you do not have a Dictator. Democracy 101.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

All these people are long dead Franco, Pinochet, Videla, so I don't know why all the excitement we are in 2017 we do not live in the past. Some people want to live in the past of course but that is not my problem, I live in today and tomorrow.

Ok, well - right here, today - you praised a fascist dictator as a "GREAT man".

Why are you now taking issue with the fact that I'm trying to discuss a post you made less than half an hour ago?

Yes I did but he's been dead for decades.

I'm not taking an issue, I'm saying why all the excitement about someone who has been dead for decades? I do not exist in the past, I exist in today and tomorrow.

Dead and all 3 nazis have been rejected by their countries. Evil bastards.

This old fella fought the fascists in Spain and lived down the road from me in his later years. He was a local legend.
BBC - Gogledd Ddwyrain - Twm Sbaen

When is your Britain going to stop supporting in mass Cromwell, or Churchill who were also mass murdering tyrants?

Churchill was a great man but he was still a conservative warmonger. English conservatives are worse than any other western party except the GOP... Many of them are closet fascists, racist and colonists.

Oh my goodness, what a great man indeed.

-Churchill's 1919 memo continued: "The moral effect should be so good that the loss of life should be reduced to a minimum. It is not necessary to use only the most deadly gasses: gasses can be used which cause great inconvenience and would spread a lively terror and yet would leave no serious permanent effect on most of those affected."

- Churchill's 'racism' for his refusal to intervene.
He derided Gandhi as a "half-naked holy man" and once said: "I hate Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion."
He was known to favour Islam over Hinduism.

- You are callous people who want to wreck Europe - you do not care about the future of Europe, you have only your own miserable interests in mind.
Addressing the London Polish government at a British Embassy meeting, October 1944

-
In 1937, he told the Palestine Royal Commission: "I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place."

Churchill certainly believed in racial hierarchies and eugenics, says John Charmley, author of Churchill: The End of Glory. In Churchill's view, white protestant Christians were at the top, above white Catholics, while Indians were higher than Africans, he adds. "Churchill saw himself and Britain as being the winners in a social Darwinian hierarchy."

 

[francoHFW]

Franco was a fascist. That's what he called himself. He patterned his regime after Mussolini and Hitler, and they were his closest allies.

Up to page 880 of The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. Franco was this " " close to joining Hitler.

Plus Spain was a total wreck and wouldn't have been any help anyway. Franco was very clever to stay out of it and manage to not get invaded... Hitler said he would do anything to not have to talk to the guy again LOL

 

[francoHFW]

Ok, well - right here, today - you praised a fascist dictator as a "GREAT man".

Why are you now taking issue with the fact that I'm trying to discuss a post you made less than half an hour ago?

Yes I did but he's been dead for decades.

I'm not taking an issue, I'm saying why all the excitement about someone who has been dead for decades? I do not exist in the past, I exist in today and tomorrow.

Dead and all 3 nazis have been rejected by their countries. Evil bastards.

This old fella fought the fascists in Spain and lived down the road from me in his later years. He was a local legend.
BBC - Gogledd Ddwyrain - Twm Sbaen

When is your Britain going to stop supporting in mass Cromwell, or Churchill who were also mass murdering tyrants?

Churchill was a great man but he was still a conservative warmonger. English conservatives are worse than any other western party except the GOP... Many of them are closet fascists, racist and colonists.

Oh my goodness, what a great man indeed.

-Churchill's 1919 memo continued: "The moral effect should be so good that the loss of life should be reduced to a minimum. It is not necessary to use only the most deadly gasses: gasses can be used which cause great inconvenience and would spread a lively terror and yet would leave no serious permanent effect on most of those affected."

- Churchill's 'racism' for his refusal to intervene.
He derided Gandhi as a "half-naked holy man" and once said: "I hate Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion."
He was known to favour Islam over Hinduism.

- You are callous people who want to wreck Europe - you do not care about the future of Europe, you have only your own miserable interests in mind.
Addressing the London Polish government at a British Embassy meeting, October 1944

-
In 1937, he told the Palestine Royal Commission: "I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place."

Churchill certainly believed in racial hierarchies and eugenics, says John Charmley, author of Churchill: The End of Glory. In Churchill's view, white protestant Christians were at the top, above white Catholics, while Indians were higher than Africans, he adds. "Churchill saw himself and Britain as being the winners in a social Darwinian hierarchy."

Yeah he was a nut but he saved the world.