AR15s are not military grade... not even close

[Daryl Hunt]

Lol
AR15s are just sporting rifles... Always have been always will be
The drumbeat starts again, Really ignorant people saying things they have no business saying because they have no clue on the facts.
Other countries do not have the right to firearm ownership, Not even the right to freedom of speech for that matter.
Bringing other countries into the conversation is irrelevant, The vast majority of violent crime in this country is done in progressive controlled urban areas with extremely strict gun control laws… Only a fool would ever believe more frivolous gun control laws will save a single soul.

Don't be stupid. They lack a select fire switch, that's all.

Yes....which means they are not military weapons...in fact, the AR-15 has never been used in a war...

However, in Crimea this week, a shooter using a pump action shotgun murdered 21 people compared to the 8 murdered today.....using the AR-15...which shows that the pump action shotgun is a deadlier weapon...right?

The pump action shotgun is an actual weapon of war and is a current weapon of war....the AR-15, not so much.

The US Army and the US Air Force both may issue you an AR-15. Yes, it will have M-16 stamped on it but it's identical right down to the single shot capability and won't have either full auto or 3 shot burst settings. And it will cost the Military less than 1000 bucks rather than the over 3000 for the M-16 or M-4. I already posted a post from a retired Army SSgt that was issued the semi auto M-16. And THAT is the only difference when all things are equal. You want your ass back now?

 

[2aguy]

Lol
AR15s are just sporting rifles... Always have been always will be
The drumbeat starts again, Really ignorant people saying things they have no business saying because they have no clue on the facts.
Other countries do not have the right to firearm ownership, Not even the right to freedom of speech for that matter.
Bringing other countries into the conversation is irrelevant, The vast majority of violent crime in this country is done in progressive controlled urban areas with extremely strict gun control laws… Only a fool would ever believe more frivolous gun control laws will save a single soul.

Don't be stupid. They lack a select fire switch, that's all.

Yes....which means they are not military weapons...in fact, the AR-15 has never been used in a war...

However, in Crimea this week, a shooter using a pump action shotgun murdered 21 people compared to the 8 murdered today.....using the AR-15...which shows that the pump action shotgun is a deadlier weapon...right?

The pump action shotgun is an actual weapon of war and is a current weapon of war....the AR-15, not so much.

The US Army and the US Air Force both may issue you an AR-15. Yes, it will have M-16 stamped on it but it's identical right down to the single shot capability and won't have either full auto or 3 shot burst settings. And it will cost the Military less than 1000 bucks rather than the over 3000 for the M-16 or M-4. I already posted a post from a retired Army SSgt that was issued the semi auto M-16. And THAT is the only difference when all things are equal. You want your ass back now?

Wrong.....

 

[Rustic]

Lol
AR15s are just sporting rifles... Always have been always will be
The drumbeat starts again, Really ignorant people saying things they have no business saying because they have no clue on the facts.
Other countries do not have the right to firearm ownership, Not even the right to freedom of speech for that matter.
Bringing other countries into the conversation is irrelevant, The vast majority of violent crime in this country is done in progressive controlled urban areas with extremely strict gun control laws… Only a fool would ever believe more frivolous gun control laws will save a single soul.

Don't be stupid. They lack a select fire switch, that's all.

As explained by a former Marine...
“Lets define “military grade” shall we?

Military Grade (or Mil Spec) are expectations that must be met at minimal costs. Minimal costs involve materials that only need to meet military expectations of that piece of equipment. Nothing more.

In the construction of a rifle, would it not be better to use titanium rather than aluminum? How about stainless steel rather than steel parts? I think you would agree a weapon could be made stronger and require less overall maintenance if it did. But the military sets standards for weight, life expectancy and costs and titanium is rather expensive as it is tough to work with.

The AR-15 has never had the limits of Mil Spec construction and therefore while the cottage industries that produce parts for the M-16/M-4, sometimes produce more parts than are needed, they look for other markets.

These commonly are bought up by non-military weapons manufacturers and find a home in the construction of AR-15’s. For those who don’t see Mil Spec or military grade as anything more than the cheapest products made by the lowest bidder (which is exactly what it is) many people prefer to upgrade to better built parts the US Government simple doesn’t want to spend money on..

The AR-15 lends itself to being a superior rifle to the M-16/M-4 the less Mil Spec it is. Trigger guards can be more comfortable, Charging handles can be easier to grab and magazine wells can have a flair to more easily replace magazines.

The fact is the AR-15 is not a military firearm at all and to my knowledge, not a single military in the world uses it. The common idea that the AR-15 was constructed for the battlefield includes dozens of firearms that don’t meet with the same scrutiny the AR-15 does. Ruger during the end of the Vietnam war produced the Mini 14 to capitalize on some of the earlier problems with the M-16. I understand some security forces abroad use this rifle in an official government capacity and yet no one calls it a weapon designed for the battlefield even though it certainly was.

The M-16 on the other hand was rejected after review by the US Government and remained in the civilian market for 6 years as the AR-15 before the US Air Force insisted the US Army approve them for Air Force security personnel.

Defining it as a battlefield weapon is a bit like calling a rifle cartridge “high powered”. Neither of those words have a cut and dry definition and have made it into the vernacular simply to express some level of lethality that doesn't exist anymore than it does with the 30/40 Craig or the 1903 Springfield, the M-1 Garand or Carbine, the Ithica, Winchester or Remington shotgun or the Remington Model 700 which have all been used on the battlefield.

It’s deceptive and dishonest.”

One HUGE problem with all this. Not ALL M-16s in the US Army are Autos or even 3 shot bursts. Some are single shot. The selector has only 2 settings, safe and fire. Here is an exert from a Retired Army SSgt.
https://www.quora.com/If-the-AR-15-is-a-military-weapon-what-countries-issued-them-to-their-military

Ron Prasuhn, former Staff Sergeant (Ret.) - Radio/Radio Teletype Oper. at U.S. Army (1965-1994)
Answered Apr 3

None, that I’m aware of, because the AR-15 is NOT, I say again…is NOT…a military weapon.

It’s cousin, the M-16 series (A1/A2) is a military weapon as it can be set for either ‘Off’, ‘Semi’ (for semi-automatic), ‘Burst’ (for 3-round bursts per each pull of the trigger), or ‘Auto’ (fully automatica fire where one pull of the trigger is all that’s needed to empty the attached magazine which could be either a 20 or 30 round, used by most military).

On the M-16 you will see either ‘Off, Semi, Burst’ or ‘Off, Semi, Auto’ as options to select for fire. Not all M-16s are fully automatic as many tend to believe. The ones I was issued while serving between 1977–1994 were ‘Semi-Automatic’ as being the best I could select from…same as my AR-15 that I have today…It’s either ‘Off’ or ‘Semi’, NOTHING else. I didn’t even have the ‘Burst’ capability on the M-16s I was issued while on Active Duty. Not all units get the M-16 with full automatic firing capabilities either. Those are mostly used by the combat MOSs (Military Occupational Skills) like Infantry, Scouts, Combat Engineers and other ‘front line’ troops…which is a misnomer these days as there is no such thing as a ‘front line’ as most people know it to be for many, many years ago.

Now, if you were to ask which countries issued their soldiers the M-16, I could say, for sure, the United States. After that, I’m not sure as most countries tend to have their own specific weapons, made in their country or another country where they can get them relatvely cheap, to cut defense costs. Mexico I believe issues the M-16 rifle to their troops, or some of them. I know this because I seen the Mexaican Coast Guard carrying them when on cruise to Mexico a few times. Even have a few photos of them with the M-16 rifles

Not ALL M-16s are fully or 3 shot burst. Therefore, the US Army does use the AR and it has to meet Military Specs. Chances are, they are the LE6920. Since the Auto and 3 shot burst is frowned upon by the US Military as a huge waste of ammo, it really doesn't make much difference if you are issued which weapon. BTW, the semi auto only for the Army is also stamped M-16 but it's really an AR-15 Model 603 with only a few parts from the Civilian Bin like the LE6920 Colt rifle. I can see the advantage of having the semi auto version around since it costs less than a third of what the 3 shot burst rifle costs but does the same job. Remember, the only round of your 3 shot burst that will be where you wanted it to go will be the first one.

So, the question, "What Military uses the AR-15?" How about the Unites States Army and the United States Air Force.

Lol
Nice deflection
Over the counter Ars are not military grade, They are just sporting rifles nothing more nothing less.
And like I said you can get military grade ARs, but you’re going to pay for them and you have to have a ffl license.
And call every Ar15 an assault weapon/military style/military grade is just dishonest.
It’s just best to call them what they really are… Sporting rifles

 

[Rustic]

Lol
AR15s are just sporting rifles... Always have been always will be
The drumbeat starts again, Really ignorant people saying things they have no business saying because they have no clue on the facts.
Other countries do not have the right to firearm ownership, Not even the right to freedom of speech for that matter.
Bringing other countries into the conversation is irrelevant, The vast majority of violent crime in this country is done in progressive controlled urban areas with extremely strict gun control laws… Only a fool would ever believe more frivolous gun control laws will save a single soul.

Don't be stupid. They lack a select fire switch, that's all.

Yes....which means they are not military weapons...in fact, the AR-15 has never been used in a war...

However, in Crimea this week, a shooter using a pump action shotgun murdered 21 people compared to the 8 murdered today.....using the AR-15...which shows that the pump action shotgun is a deadlier weapon...right?

The pump action shotgun is an actual weapon of war and is a current weapon of war....the AR-15, not so much.

The US Army and the US Air Force both may issue you an AR-15. Yes, it will have M-16 stamped on it but it's identical right down to the single shot capability and won't have either full auto or 3 shot burst settings. And it will cost the Military less than 1000 bucks rather than the over 3000 for the M-16 or M-4. I already posted a post from a retired Army SSgt that was issued the semi auto M-16. And THAT is the only difference when all things are equal. You want your ass back now?

Lol
Deflection

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Lol
AR15s are just sporting rifles... Always have been always will be
The drumbeat starts again, Really ignorant people saying things they have no business saying because they have no clue on the facts.
Other countries do not have the right to firearm ownership, Not even the right to freedom of speech for that matter.
Bringing other countries into the conversation is irrelevant, The vast majority of violent crime in this country is done in progressive controlled urban areas with extremely strict gun control laws… Only a fool would ever believe more frivolous gun control laws will save a single soul.

Don't be stupid. They lack a select fire switch, that's all.

As explained by a former Marine...
“Lets define “military grade” shall we?

Military Grade (or Mil Spec) are expectations that must be met at minimal costs. Minimal costs involve materials that only need to meet military expectations of that piece of equipment. Nothing more.

In the construction of a rifle, would it not be better to use titanium rather than aluminum? How about stainless steel rather than steel parts? I think you would agree a weapon could be made stronger and require less overall maintenance if it did. But the military sets standards for weight, life expectancy and costs and titanium is rather expensive as it is tough to work with.

The AR-15 has never had the limits of Mil Spec construction and therefore while the cottage industries that produce parts for the M-16/M-4, sometimes produce more parts than are needed, they look for other markets.

These commonly are bought up by non-military weapons manufacturers and find a home in the construction of AR-15’s. For those who don’t see Mil Spec or military grade as anything more than the cheapest products made by the lowest bidder (which is exactly what it is) many people prefer to upgrade to better built parts the US Government simple doesn’t want to spend money on..

The AR-15 lends itself to being a superior rifle to the M-16/M-4 the less Mil Spec it is. Trigger guards can be more comfortable, Charging handles can be easier to grab and magazine wells can have a flair to more easily replace magazines.

The fact is the AR-15 is not a military firearm at all and to my knowledge, not a single military in the world uses it. The common idea that the AR-15 was constructed for the battlefield includes dozens of firearms that don’t meet with the same scrutiny the AR-15 does. Ruger during the end of the Vietnam war produced the Mini 14 to capitalize on some of the earlier problems with the M-16. I understand some security forces abroad use this rifle in an official government capacity and yet no one calls it a weapon designed for the battlefield even though it certainly was.

The M-16 on the other hand was rejected after review by the US Government and remained in the civilian market for 6 years as the AR-15 before the US Air Force insisted the US Army approve them for Air Force security personnel.

Defining it as a battlefield weapon is a bit like calling a rifle cartridge “high powered”. Neither of those words have a cut and dry definition and have made it into the vernacular simply to express some level of lethality that doesn't exist anymore than it does with the 30/40 Craig or the 1903 Springfield, the M-1 Garand or Carbine, the Ithica, Winchester or Remington shotgun or the Remington Model 700 which have all been used on the battlefield.

It’s deceptive and dishonest.”

One HUGE problem with all this. Not ALL M-16s in the US Army are Autos or even 3 shot bursts. Some are single shot. The selector has only 2 settings, safe and fire. Here is an exert from a Retired Army SSgt.
https://www.quora.com/If-the-AR-15-is-a-military-weapon-what-countries-issued-them-to-their-military

Ron Prasuhn, former Staff Sergeant (Ret.) - Radio/Radio Teletype Oper. at U.S. Army (1965-1994)
Answered Apr 3

None, that I’m aware of, because the AR-15 is NOT, I say again…is NOT…a military weapon.

It’s cousin, the M-16 series (A1/A2) is a military weapon as it can be set for either ‘Off’, ‘Semi’ (for semi-automatic), ‘Burst’ (for 3-round bursts per each pull of the trigger), or ‘Auto’ (fully automatica fire where one pull of the trigger is all that’s needed to empty the attached magazine which could be either a 20 or 30 round, used by most military).

On the M-16 you will see either ‘Off, Semi, Burst’ or ‘Off, Semi, Auto’ as options to select for fire. Not all M-16s are fully automatic as many tend to believe. The ones I was issued while serving between 1977–1994 were ‘Semi-Automatic’ as being the best I could select from…same as my AR-15 that I have today…It’s either ‘Off’ or ‘Semi’, NOTHING else. I didn’t even have the ‘Burst’ capability on the M-16s I was issued while on Active Duty. Not all units get the M-16 with full automatic firing capabilities either. Those are mostly used by the combat MOSs (Military Occupational Skills) like Infantry, Scouts, Combat Engineers and other ‘front line’ troops…which is a misnomer these days as there is no such thing as a ‘front line’ as most people know it to be for many, many years ago.

Now, if you were to ask which countries issued their soldiers the M-16, I could say, for sure, the United States. After that, I’m not sure as most countries tend to have their own specific weapons, made in their country or another country where they can get them relatvely cheap, to cut defense costs. Mexico I believe issues the M-16 rifle to their troops, or some of them. I know this because I seen the Mexaican Coast Guard carrying them when on cruise to Mexico a few times. Even have a few photos of them with the M-16 rifles

Not ALL M-16s are fully or 3 shot burst. Therefore, the US Army does use the AR and it has to meet Military Specs. Chances are, they are the LE6920. Since the Auto and 3 shot burst is frowned upon by the US Military as a huge waste of ammo, it really doesn't make much difference if you are issued which weapon. BTW, the semi auto only for the Army is also stamped M-16 but it's really an AR-15 Model 603 with only a few parts from the Civilian Bin like the LE6920 Colt rifle. I can see the advantage of having the semi auto version around since it costs less than a third of what the 3 shot burst rifle costs but does the same job. Remember, the only round of your 3 shot burst that will be where you wanted it to go will be the first one.

So, the question, "What Military uses the AR-15?" How about the Unites States Army and the United States Air Force.

No... they don't....the M-16 is not the AR-15..... the selector switch makes them two different weapons, you doofus...

Yet the Army issues semi Auto versions of the M-16. It doesn't have AR-15 stamped on it. It has M-16 stamped on it. But in reality, it's an AR-15. Probably a special order of the Colt 6920 which uses the same parts save about 4 that the M-4 uses. In reality, the AR-15, M-16 and M-4 are all part of the same family originated by the AR-15 Mode 601. And I have fired all of them. Have you?

 

[bodecea]

Lol
AR15s are just sporting rifles... Always have been always will be
The drumbeat starts again, Really ignorant people saying things they have no business saying because they have no clue on the facts.
Other countries do not have the right to firearm ownership, Not even the right to freedom of speech for that matter.
Bringing other countries into the conversation is irrelevant, The vast majority of violent crime in this country is done in progressive controlled urban areas with extremely strict gun control laws… Only a fool would ever believe more frivolous gun control laws will save a single soul.

I'm sure the people of Pittsburg are comforted by your explanation.

 

[2aguy]

Lol
AR15s are just sporting rifles... Always have been always will be
The drumbeat starts again, Really ignorant people saying things they have no business saying because they have no clue on the facts.
Other countries do not have the right to firearm ownership, Not even the right to freedom of speech for that matter.
Bringing other countries into the conversation is irrelevant, The vast majority of violent crime in this country is done in progressive controlled urban areas with extremely strict gun control laws… Only a fool would ever believe more frivolous gun control laws will save a single soul.

Don't be stupid. They lack a select fire switch, that's all.

As explained by a former Marine...
“Lets define “military grade” shall we?

Military Grade (or Mil Spec) are expectations that must be met at minimal costs. Minimal costs involve materials that only need to meet military expectations of that piece of equipment. Nothing more.

In the construction of a rifle, would it not be better to use titanium rather than aluminum? How about stainless steel rather than steel parts? I think you would agree a weapon could be made stronger and require less overall maintenance if it did. But the military sets standards for weight, life expectancy and costs and titanium is rather expensive as it is tough to work with.

The AR-15 has never had the limits of Mil Spec construction and therefore while the cottage industries that produce parts for the M-16/M-4, sometimes produce more parts than are needed, they look for other markets.

These commonly are bought up by non-military weapons manufacturers and find a home in the construction of AR-15’s. For those who don’t see Mil Spec or military grade as anything more than the cheapest products made by the lowest bidder (which is exactly what it is) many people prefer to upgrade to better built parts the US Government simple doesn’t want to spend money on..

The AR-15 lends itself to being a superior rifle to the M-16/M-4 the less Mil Spec it is. Trigger guards can be more comfortable, Charging handles can be easier to grab and magazine wells can have a flair to more easily replace magazines.

The fact is the AR-15 is not a military firearm at all and to my knowledge, not a single military in the world uses it. The common idea that the AR-15 was constructed for the battlefield includes dozens of firearms that don’t meet with the same scrutiny the AR-15 does. Ruger during the end of the Vietnam war produced the Mini 14 to capitalize on some of the earlier problems with the M-16. I understand some security forces abroad use this rifle in an official government capacity and yet no one calls it a weapon designed for the battlefield even though it certainly was.

The M-16 on the other hand was rejected after review by the US Government and remained in the civilian market for 6 years as the AR-15 before the US Air Force insisted the US Army approve them for Air Force security personnel.

Defining it as a battlefield weapon is a bit like calling a rifle cartridge “high powered”. Neither of those words have a cut and dry definition and have made it into the vernacular simply to express some level of lethality that doesn't exist anymore than it does with the 30/40 Craig or the 1903 Springfield, the M-1 Garand or Carbine, the Ithica, Winchester or Remington shotgun or the Remington Model 700 which have all been used on the battlefield.

It’s deceptive and dishonest.”

One HUGE problem with all this. Not ALL M-16s in the US Army are Autos or even 3 shot bursts. Some are single shot. The selector has only 2 settings, safe and fire. Here is an exert from a Retired Army SSgt.
https://www.quora.com/If-the-AR-15-is-a-military-weapon-what-countries-issued-them-to-their-military

Ron Prasuhn, former Staff Sergeant (Ret.) - Radio/Radio Teletype Oper. at U.S. Army (1965-1994)
Answered Apr 3

None, that I’m aware of, because the AR-15 is NOT, I say again…is NOT…a military weapon.

It’s cousin, the M-16 series (A1/A2) is a military weapon as it can be set for either ‘Off’, ‘Semi’ (for semi-automatic), ‘Burst’ (for 3-round bursts per each pull of the trigger), or ‘Auto’ (fully automatica fire where one pull of the trigger is all that’s needed to empty the attached magazine which could be either a 20 or 30 round, used by most military).

On the M-16 you will see either ‘Off, Semi, Burst’ or ‘Off, Semi, Auto’ as options to select for fire. Not all M-16s are fully automatic as many tend to believe. The ones I was issued while serving between 1977–1994 were ‘Semi-Automatic’ as being the best I could select from…same as my AR-15 that I have today…It’s either ‘Off’ or ‘Semi’, NOTHING else. I didn’t even have the ‘Burst’ capability on the M-16s I was issued while on Active Duty. Not all units get the M-16 with full automatic firing capabilities either. Those are mostly used by the combat MOSs (Military Occupational Skills) like Infantry, Scouts, Combat Engineers and other ‘front line’ troops…which is a misnomer these days as there is no such thing as a ‘front line’ as most people know it to be for many, many years ago.

Now, if you were to ask which countries issued their soldiers the M-16, I could say, for sure, the United States. After that, I’m not sure as most countries tend to have their own specific weapons, made in their country or another country where they can get them relatvely cheap, to cut defense costs. Mexico I believe issues the M-16 rifle to their troops, or some of them. I know this because I seen the Mexaican Coast Guard carrying them when on cruise to Mexico a few times. Even have a few photos of them with the M-16 rifles

Not ALL M-16s are fully or 3 shot burst. Therefore, the US Army does use the AR and it has to meet Military Specs. Chances are, they are the LE6920. Since the Auto and 3 shot burst is frowned upon by the US Military as a huge waste of ammo, it really doesn't make much difference if you are issued which weapon. BTW, the semi auto only for the Army is also stamped M-16 but it's really an AR-15 Model 603 with only a few parts from the Civilian Bin like the LE6920 Colt rifle. I can see the advantage of having the semi auto version around since it costs less than a third of what the 3 shot burst rifle costs but does the same job. Remember, the only round of your 3 shot burst that will be where you wanted it to go will be the first one.

So, the question, "What Military uses the AR-15?" How about the Unites States Army and the United States Air Force.

No... they don't....the M-16 is not the AR-15..... the selector switch makes them two different weapons, you doofus...

Yet the Army issues semi Auto versions of the M-16. It doesn't have AR-15 stamped on it. It has M-16 stamped on it. But in reality, it's an AR-15. Probably a special order of the Colt 6920 which uses the same parts save about 4 that the M-4 uses. In reality, the AR-15, M-16 and M-4 are all part of the same family originated by the AR-15 Mode 601. And I have fired all of them. Have you?

You are really dumb...... they are different weapons.....the AR-15 has never been used in war, the M-16 was used in war.....it has select fire capability...

The Pump Action shotgun is a current weapon of war.....

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Lol
AR15s are just sporting rifles... Always have been always will be
The drumbeat starts again, Really ignorant people saying things they have no business saying because they have no clue on the facts.
Other countries do not have the right to firearm ownership, Not even the right to freedom of speech for that matter.
Bringing other countries into the conversation is irrelevant, The vast majority of violent crime in this country is done in progressive controlled urban areas with extremely strict gun control laws… Only a fool would ever believe more frivolous gun control laws will save a single soul.

Don't be stupid. They lack a select fire switch, that's all.

As explained by a former Marine...
“Lets define “military grade” shall we?

Military Grade (or Mil Spec) are expectations that must be met at minimal costs. Minimal costs involve materials that only need to meet military expectations of that piece of equipment. Nothing more.

In the construction of a rifle, would it not be better to use titanium rather than aluminum? How about stainless steel rather than steel parts? I think you would agree a weapon could be made stronger and require less overall maintenance if it did. But the military sets standards for weight, life expectancy and costs and titanium is rather expensive as it is tough to work with.

The AR-15 has never had the limits of Mil Spec construction and therefore while the cottage industries that produce parts for the M-16/M-4, sometimes produce more parts than are needed, they look for other markets.

These commonly are bought up by non-military weapons manufacturers and find a home in the construction of AR-15’s. For those who don’t see Mil Spec or military grade as anything more than the cheapest products made by the lowest bidder (which is exactly what it is) many people prefer to upgrade to better built parts the US Government simple doesn’t want to spend money on..

The AR-15 lends itself to being a superior rifle to the M-16/M-4 the less Mil Spec it is. Trigger guards can be more comfortable, Charging handles can be easier to grab and magazine wells can have a flair to more easily replace magazines.

The fact is the AR-15 is not a military firearm at all and to my knowledge, not a single military in the world uses it. The common idea that the AR-15 was constructed for the battlefield includes dozens of firearms that don’t meet with the same scrutiny the AR-15 does. Ruger during the end of the Vietnam war produced the Mini 14 to capitalize on some of the earlier problems with the M-16. I understand some security forces abroad use this rifle in an official government capacity and yet no one calls it a weapon designed for the battlefield even though it certainly was.

The M-16 on the other hand was rejected after review by the US Government and remained in the civilian market for 6 years as the AR-15 before the US Air Force insisted the US Army approve them for Air Force security personnel.

Defining it as a battlefield weapon is a bit like calling a rifle cartridge “high powered”. Neither of those words have a cut and dry definition and have made it into the vernacular simply to express some level of lethality that doesn't exist anymore than it does with the 30/40 Craig or the 1903 Springfield, the M-1 Garand or Carbine, the Ithica, Winchester or Remington shotgun or the Remington Model 700 which have all been used on the battlefield.

It’s deceptive and dishonest.”

One HUGE problem with all this. Not ALL M-16s in the US Army are Autos or even 3 shot bursts. Some are single shot. The selector has only 2 settings, safe and fire. Here is an exert from a Retired Army SSgt.
https://www.quora.com/If-the-AR-15-is-a-military-weapon-what-countries-issued-them-to-their-military

Ron Prasuhn, former Staff Sergeant (Ret.) - Radio/Radio Teletype Oper. at U.S. Army (1965-1994)
Answered Apr 3

None, that I’m aware of, because the AR-15 is NOT, I say again…is NOT…a military weapon.

It’s cousin, the M-16 series (A1/A2) is a military weapon as it can be set for either ‘Off’, ‘Semi’ (for semi-automatic), ‘Burst’ (for 3-round bursts per each pull of the trigger), or ‘Auto’ (fully automatica fire where one pull of the trigger is all that’s needed to empty the attached magazine which could be either a 20 or 30 round, used by most military).

On the M-16 you will see either ‘Off, Semi, Burst’ or ‘Off, Semi, Auto’ as options to select for fire. Not all M-16s are fully automatic as many tend to believe. The ones I was issued while serving between 1977–1994 were ‘Semi-Automatic’ as being the best I could select from…same as my AR-15 that I have today…It’s either ‘Off’ or ‘Semi’, NOTHING else. I didn’t even have the ‘Burst’ capability on the M-16s I was issued while on Active Duty. Not all units get the M-16 with full automatic firing capabilities either. Those are mostly used by the combat MOSs (Military Occupational Skills) like Infantry, Scouts, Combat Engineers and other ‘front line’ troops…which is a misnomer these days as there is no such thing as a ‘front line’ as most people know it to be for many, many years ago.

Now, if you were to ask which countries issued their soldiers the M-16, I could say, for sure, the United States. After that, I’m not sure as most countries tend to have their own specific weapons, made in their country or another country where they can get them relatvely cheap, to cut defense costs. Mexico I believe issues the M-16 rifle to their troops, or some of them. I know this because I seen the Mexaican Coast Guard carrying them when on cruise to Mexico a few times. Even have a few photos of them with the M-16 rifles

Not ALL M-16s are fully or 3 shot burst. Therefore, the US Army does use the AR and it has to meet Military Specs. Chances are, they are the LE6920. Since the Auto and 3 shot burst is frowned upon by the US Military as a huge waste of ammo, it really doesn't make much difference if you are issued which weapon. BTW, the semi auto only for the Army is also stamped M-16 but it's really an AR-15 Model 603 with only a few parts from the Civilian Bin like the LE6920 Colt rifle. I can see the advantage of having the semi auto version around since it costs less than a third of what the 3 shot burst rifle costs but does the same job. Remember, the only round of your 3 shot burst that will be where you wanted it to go will be the first one.

So, the question, "What Military uses the AR-15?" How about the Unites States Army and the United States Air Force.

Lol
Nice deflection
Over the counter Ars are not military grade, They are just sporting rifles nothing more nothing less.
And like I said you can get military grade ARs, but you’re going to pay for them and you have to have a ffl license.
And call every Ar15 an assault weapon/military style/military grade is just dishonest.
It’s just best to call them what they really are… Sporting rifles

Stop making shit up. The Colt LE6920 is an over the counter AR-15 that IS Military Grade. In fact, it's stamped right on the major parts and even the box it comes in. In fact, you can take one or your junk guns and use Mil Spec or Grade Parts and bring it up to almost Military Grade but you will be buying all replacement parts from either Colt or FN. And no matter how good the aftermarket parts are (and some of the higher dollar parts are pretty damned good) only Colt and FN can stamp or call them Military Grade.

 

[Rustic]

Lol
AR15s are just sporting rifles... Always have been always will be
The drumbeat starts again, Really ignorant people saying things they have no business saying because they have no clue on the facts.
Other countries do not have the right to firearm ownership, Not even the right to freedom of speech for that matter.
Bringing other countries into the conversation is irrelevant, The vast majority of violent crime in this country is done in progressive controlled urban areas with extremely strict gun control laws… Only a fool would ever believe more frivolous gun control laws will save a single soul.

I'm sure the people of Pittsburg are comforted by your explanation.

You do realize people kill people not firearms?

 

[Rustic]

Lol
AR15s are just sporting rifles... Always have been always will be
The drumbeat starts again, Really ignorant people saying things they have no business saying because they have no clue on the facts.
Other countries do not have the right to firearm ownership, Not even the right to freedom of speech for that matter.
Bringing other countries into the conversation is irrelevant, The vast majority of violent crime in this country is done in progressive controlled urban areas with extremely strict gun control laws… Only a fool would ever believe more frivolous gun control laws will save a single soul.

Don't be stupid. They lack a select fire switch, that's all.

As explained by a former Marine...
“Lets define “military grade” shall we?

Military Grade (or Mil Spec) are expectations that must be met at minimal costs. Minimal costs involve materials that only need to meet military expectations of that piece of equipment. Nothing more.

In the construction of a rifle, would it not be better to use titanium rather than aluminum? How about stainless steel rather than steel parts? I think you would agree a weapon could be made stronger and require less overall maintenance if it did. But the military sets standards for weight, life expectancy and costs and titanium is rather expensive as it is tough to work with.

The AR-15 has never had the limits of Mil Spec construction and therefore while the cottage industries that produce parts for the M-16/M-4, sometimes produce more parts than are needed, they look for other markets.

These commonly are bought up by non-military weapons manufacturers and find a home in the construction of AR-15’s. For those who don’t see Mil Spec or military grade as anything more than the cheapest products made by the lowest bidder (which is exactly what it is) many people prefer to upgrade to better built parts the US Government simple doesn’t want to spend money on..

The AR-15 lends itself to being a superior rifle to the M-16/M-4 the less Mil Spec it is. Trigger guards can be more comfortable, Charging handles can be easier to grab and magazine wells can have a flair to more easily replace magazines.

The fact is the AR-15 is not a military firearm at all and to my knowledge, not a single military in the world uses it. The common idea that the AR-15 was constructed for the battlefield includes dozens of firearms that don’t meet with the same scrutiny the AR-15 does. Ruger during the end of the Vietnam war produced the Mini 14 to capitalize on some of the earlier problems with the M-16. I understand some security forces abroad use this rifle in an official government capacity and yet no one calls it a weapon designed for the battlefield even though it certainly was.

The M-16 on the other hand was rejected after review by the US Government and remained in the civilian market for 6 years as the AR-15 before the US Air Force insisted the US Army approve them for Air Force security personnel.

Defining it as a battlefield weapon is a bit like calling a rifle cartridge “high powered”. Neither of those words have a cut and dry definition and have made it into the vernacular simply to express some level of lethality that doesn't exist anymore than it does with the 30/40 Craig or the 1903 Springfield, the M-1 Garand or Carbine, the Ithica, Winchester or Remington shotgun or the Remington Model 700 which have all been used on the battlefield.

It’s deceptive and dishonest.”

One HUGE problem with all this. Not ALL M-16s in the US Army are Autos or even 3 shot bursts. Some are single shot. The selector has only 2 settings, safe and fire. Here is an exert from a Retired Army SSgt.
https://www.quora.com/If-the-AR-15-is-a-military-weapon-what-countries-issued-them-to-their-military

Ron Prasuhn, former Staff Sergeant (Ret.) - Radio/Radio Teletype Oper. at U.S. Army (1965-1994)
Answered Apr 3

None, that I’m aware of, because the AR-15 is NOT, I say again…is NOT…a military weapon.

It’s cousin, the M-16 series (A1/A2) is a military weapon as it can be set for either ‘Off’, ‘Semi’ (for semi-automatic), ‘Burst’ (for 3-round bursts per each pull of the trigger), or ‘Auto’ (fully automatica fire where one pull of the trigger is all that’s needed to empty the attached magazine which could be either a 20 or 30 round, used by most military).

On the M-16 you will see either ‘Off, Semi, Burst’ or ‘Off, Semi, Auto’ as options to select for fire. Not all M-16s are fully automatic as many tend to believe. The ones I was issued while serving between 1977–1994 were ‘Semi-Automatic’ as being the best I could select from…same as my AR-15 that I have today…It’s either ‘Off’ or ‘Semi’, NOTHING else. I didn’t even have the ‘Burst’ capability on the M-16s I was issued while on Active Duty. Not all units get the M-16 with full automatic firing capabilities either. Those are mostly used by the combat MOSs (Military Occupational Skills) like Infantry, Scouts, Combat Engineers and other ‘front line’ troops…which is a misnomer these days as there is no such thing as a ‘front line’ as most people know it to be for many, many years ago.

Now, if you were to ask which countries issued their soldiers the M-16, I could say, for sure, the United States. After that, I’m not sure as most countries tend to have their own specific weapons, made in their country or another country where they can get them relatvely cheap, to cut defense costs. Mexico I believe issues the M-16 rifle to their troops, or some of them. I know this because I seen the Mexaican Coast Guard carrying them when on cruise to Mexico a few times. Even have a few photos of them with the M-16 rifles

Not ALL M-16s are fully or 3 shot burst. Therefore, the US Army does use the AR and it has to meet Military Specs. Chances are, they are the LE6920. Since the Auto and 3 shot burst is frowned upon by the US Military as a huge waste of ammo, it really doesn't make much difference if you are issued which weapon. BTW, the semi auto only for the Army is also stamped M-16 but it's really an AR-15 Model 603 with only a few parts from the Civilian Bin like the LE6920 Colt rifle. I can see the advantage of having the semi auto version around since it costs less than a third of what the 3 shot burst rifle costs but does the same job. Remember, the only round of your 3 shot burst that will be where you wanted it to go will be the first one.

So, the question, "What Military uses the AR-15?" How about the Unites States Army and the United States Air Force.

Lol
Nice deflection
Over the counter Ars are not military grade, They are just sporting rifles nothing more nothing less.
And like I said you can get military grade ARs, but you’re going to pay for them and you have to have a ffl license.
And call every Ar15 an assault weapon/military style/military grade is just dishonest.
It’s just best to call them what they really are… Sporting rifles

Stop making shit up. The Colt LE6920 is an over the counter AR-15 that IS Military Grade. In fact, it's stamped right on the major parts and even the box it comes in. In fact, you can take one or your junk guns and use Mil Spec or Grade Parts and bring it up to almost Military Grade but you will be buying all replacement parts from either Colt or FN. And no matter how good the aftermarket parts are (and some of the higher dollar parts are pretty damned good) only Colt and FN can stamp or call them Military Grade.

I sell both of those, over the counter they are not military grade... it’s that simple

 

[Rustic]

As much as you anti-gun nutters like Darrell hunt want to take firearms away from law abiding citizens. Fortunately for second amendment enthusiasts, Donald Trump will veto any frivolous gun Legislation, And the Supreme Court will stop the socialists from getting rid of the Second Amendment.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Don't be stupider than you have to be. I already said they lacked the select fire.

Lol
You don’t know anything about firearms do you, what do you think you can just buy a select fire switch and it makes them auto?

Actually it is you who knows nothing about firearms, as this thread has proven.

Where did I say "buy a select fire switch"?

It's illegal to guy one with it............LOL

Have to be a licensed gun collector or seller to buy one......and that isn't cheap.........

I am aware of this. I think pretty much everyone is.

Perhaps here.........not elsewhere........is the weapon in full auto illegal to own or not........

Let's cut to the chase.......it's illegal............

There are only a few Full Auto Weapons legal to have and none of them are new. Anything newer than 1986 is banned. For instance, you can by an old Thompson 45 but it's going to set up back a bunch. If you want a basket case M-16 then you had better have at least 15K handy. Or you can buy an AR-15 Model 601 for around 3 grand. But all of them, a Federal License will be required even prior to you trying to buy it. But it is still your right to own them. If you can pass a standard Gun Check, you can probably pass a FL to obtain an old Automatic Weapon depending on the area you are living in. Some areas won't allow you to possess it but that's the state and or the county not the feds. A couple of notes here, while it's your right, you will have to follow the laws of possession in storage and use. Sorry, you can't go running around with it on your Gun Rack in your Pickup or leaning against the fireplace at home. I would really love to have an AR-15 Model 601. Out of those 3, that's most rare but not the most sought after hence the price. But I really don't have an undying need to own one.

 

[Moonglow]

Lol
AR15s are just sporting rifles... Always have been always will be
The drumbeat starts again, Really ignorant people saying things they have no business saying because they have no clue on the facts.
Other countries do not have the right to firearm ownership, Not even the right to freedom of speech for that matter.
Bringing other countries into the conversation is irrelevant, The vast majority of violent crime in this country is done in progressive controlled urban areas with extremely strict gun control laws… Only a fool would ever believe more frivolous gun control laws will save a single soul.

The M-16 wasn't much better.

 

[Moonglow]

Lol
You don’t know anything about firearms do you, what do you think you can just buy a select fire switch and it makes them auto?

Actually it is you who knows nothing about firearms, as this thread has proven.

Where did I say "buy a select fire switch"?

It's illegal to guy one with it............LOL

Have to be a licensed gun collector or seller to buy one......and that isn't cheap.........

I am aware of this. I think pretty much everyone is.

Perhaps here.........not elsewhere........is the weapon in full auto illegal to own or not........

Let's cut to the chase.......it's illegal............

There are only a few Full Auto Weapons legal to have and none of them are new. Anything newer than 1986 is banned. For instance, you can by an old Thompson 45 but it's going to set up back a bunch. If you want a basket case M-16 then you had better have at least 15K handy. Or you can buy an AR-15 Model 601 for around 3 grand. But all of them, a Federal License will be required even prior to you trying to buy it. But it is still your right to own them. If you can pass a standard Gun Check, you can probably pass a FL to obtain an old Automatic Weapon depending on the area you are living in. Some areas won't allow you to possess it but that's the state and or the county not the feds. A couple of notes here, while it's your right, you will have to follow the laws of possession in storage and use. Sorry, you can't go running around with it on your Gun Rack in your Pickup or leaning against the fireplace at home. I would really love to have an AR-15 Model 601. Out of those 3, that's most rare but not the most sought after hence the price. But I really don't have an undying need to own one.

The violin case for the Thompson is not cheap either.

 

[AvgGuyIA]

Lol
AR15s are just sporting rifles... Always have been always will be
The drumbeat starts again, Really ignorant people saying things they have no business saying because they have no clue on the facts.
Other countries do not have the right to firearm ownership, Not even the right to freedom of speech for that matter.
Bringing other countries into the conversation is irrelevant, The vast majority of violent crime in this country is done in progressive controlled urban areas with extremely strict gun control laws… Only a fool would ever believe more frivolous gun control laws will save a single soul.

. But, but, but they're black and scary looking.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

you are more accurate with semi-auto than with auto = more kill shots/more hits

You do realize in military training they train that full auto is the last resort, Prayn spray is not accurate.
You need to ignore the mainstream media’s influence on you...

LOL, idjit, it's been decades since the term spray and pray has been used in the Military. The last versions that used full auto was the AR-15 Model 601 and the AR-15 Model 602 (M-16A-1). The M-16A-2 and above have all been single or 3 shot burst since 1986 when the A-2 was adopted and they upgraded the A-1s to the A-2. This happened during the time I was in the Military. In fact, many of the mods were done just the other side of the town I live in by a company named Capco.

You really need to stop just making shit up.

 

[Rustic]

Lol
AR15s are just sporting rifles... Always have been always will be
The drumbeat starts again, Really ignorant people saying things they have no business saying because they have no clue on the facts.
Other countries do not have the right to firearm ownership, Not even the right to freedom of speech for that matter.
Bringing other countries into the conversation is irrelevant, The vast majority of violent crime in this country is done in progressive controlled urban areas with extremely strict gun control laws… Only a fool would ever believe more frivolous gun control laws will save a single soul.

. But, but, but they're black and scary looking.

Yes some people are racist

 

[Daryl Hunt]

As much as you anti-gun nutters like Darrell hunt want to take firearms away from law abiding citizens. Fortunately for second amendment enthusiasts, Donald Trump will veto any frivolous gun Legislation, And the Supreme Court will stop the socialists from getting rid of the Second Amendment.

I just want to take YOUR away since I find you to be dangerous with or without a gun. Check you into the nearest loony bin and seize your guns that you have on you so you can't have them to harm the other fruitcakes. Now, that would make your head explode.

 

[Rustic]

you are more accurate with semi-auto than with auto = more kill shots/more hits

You do realize in military training they train that full auto is the last resort, Prayn spray is not accurate.
You need to ignore the mainstream media’s influence on you...

LOL, idjit, it's been decades since the term spray and pray has been used in the Military. The last versions that used full auto was the AR-15 Model 601 and the AR-15 Model 602 (M-16A-1). The M-16A-2 and above have all been single or 3 shot burst since 1986 when the A-2 was adopted and they upgraded the A-1s to the A-2. This happened during the time I was in the Military. In fact, many of the mods were done just the other side of the town I live in by a company named Capco.

You really need to stop just making shit up.

Lol
I was just stating what the main stream media says, They think full auto is accurate, Obviously they’ve never shot anything full auto.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Actually it is you who knows nothing about firearms, as this thread has proven.

Where did I say "buy a select fire switch"?

It's illegal to guy one with it............LOL

Have to be a licensed gun collector or seller to buy one......and that isn't cheap.........

I am aware of this. I think pretty much everyone is.

Perhaps here.........not elsewhere........is the weapon in full auto illegal to own or not........

Let's cut to the chase.......it's illegal............

There are only a few Full Auto Weapons legal to have and none of them are new. Anything newer than 1986 is banned. For instance, you can by an old Thompson 45 but it's going to set up back a bunch. If you want a basket case M-16 then you had better have at least 15K handy. Or you can buy an AR-15 Model 601 for around 3 grand. But all of them, a Federal License will be required even prior to you trying to buy it. But it is still your right to own them. If you can pass a standard Gun Check, you can probably pass a FL to obtain an old Automatic Weapon depending on the area you are living in. Some areas won't allow you to possess it but that's the state and or the county not the feds. A couple of notes here, while it's your right, you will have to follow the laws of possession in storage and use. Sorry, you can't go running around with it on your Gun Rack in your Pickup or leaning against the fireplace at home. I would really love to have an AR-15 Model 601. Out of those 3, that's most rare but not the most sought after hence the price. But I really don't have an undying need to own one.

The violin case for the Thompson is not cheap either.

You can buy cheap Violin Cases from Rustic.