Arctic sea ice thinner than ever before

[Yukon]

Build more windmills. You can stand in front of them and keep cool while generating a wee bit of energy.

And then just drink more Corona and everything will work out...

BRAVO Frankie BRAVO !!!!

 

[kristensmith98]

While many people debate Global Warming and the 24 news hour cycles repeat the same pathetic news, stories like these do not receive the needed attention. According to Great Decisions by the Foreign Policy Association, the melting of the ice caps opens up a much shorter route from Russia to Canada. A route to a country border that is severely lacking in any form of security. Russia has already been investing in large ice breakers to nagivate the waters as the ice thins. A Russian plane and Chinese ship both appeared in the area unannounced around Canada. The Arctic will be providing a new unguarded back door for any terrorist or enemy nation. Our coast guard is severely limited in monitoring abilities because of the few functioning ice breakers the U.S. and Canada have left (and Glenn Beck criticised stimulus money for the building of such an icebreaker that would also create much needed jobs in the shipyards). We did not suspect the tactics of the 9/11 attacks and enemies will likely be conceiving new tactics; while we are diverted in wars with other nations fighting an enemy without a nation, we are neglecting the security of our own borders. It is not about liberal or conservative, Gore or whoever else, it is about protecting the borders and being proactive, not reactive.

 

[ItsFairmont]

Deeper water means bigger waves.

Global warming is good.

 

[Yukon]

Ice melts in water, water depth does not increase - Archimedes principal

 

[slackjawed]

Ice melts in water, water depth does not increase - Archimedes principal

It does if you blow enough hot air through it........

 

[Old Rocks]

Ice melts in water, water depth does not increase - Archimedes principal

The ice caps in Greenland and Antarctica are on land, not water. There will be a considerably larger increase in sea level than that predicted by the IPCC.

 

[Old Rocks]

Ice melts in water, water depth does not increase - Archimedes principal

It does if you blow enough hot air through it........

Yes, thermal expansion.

 

[k2skier]

An ice bridge connecting the Wilkins Ice Shelf on the Antarctic Peninsula to Charcot Island has disintegrated. The event continues a series of breakups that began in March 2008 on the ice shelf, and highlights the effect that climate change is having on the region.

NSIDC Press Room: Ice Bridge to Wilkins Ice Shelf Breaks Up

This is not good, 100% proof the ice is melting not regrowing.

The Wilkins Ice Shelf is the tenth major ice shelf to collapse in recent times, another sign that warming temperatures are impacting Earth’s fragile cryosphere.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Ice melts in water, water depth does not increase - Archimedes principal

The ice caps in Greenland and Antarctica are on land, not water. There will be a considerably larger increase in sea level than that predicted by the IPCC.

So why wasn't most of the east coast under water during the years there was very little ice in GREENLAND? How about Europe? I mean they border the Atlantic as well, where did all that water go when GREENLAND was , well GREEN? You are aware of course that GREENLAND was named such because in the years before the main European Nations discovered America, Vikings discovered and LIVED in Greenland?

Ohh and by the way, the Antarctica is NOT shrinking, in fact except a few shelves the ice is getting deeper and the snow cover heavier.

 

[Old Rocks]

Ice melts in water, water depth does not increase - Archimedes principal

The ice caps in Greenland and Antarctica are on land, not water. There will be a considerably larger increase in sea level than that predicted by the IPCC.

So why wasn't most of the east coast under water during the years there was very little ice in GREENLAND? How about Europe? I mean they border the Atlantic as well, where did all that water go when GREENLAND was , well GREEN? You are aware of course that GREENLAND was named such because in the years before the main European Nations discovered America, Vikings discovered and LIVED in Greenland?

Ohh and by the way, the Antarctica is NOT shrinking, in fact except a few shelves the ice is getting deeper and the snow cover heavier.

Damn, RGS, you reveal amazing depths of ignorance. Greenland, at its best, was a barely viable colony. And there was more ice then than today. Greenland was named Greenland because of the green pastures. Grass and nothing else much bigger than shrubs. For the real information on Greenland, read Jared Diamond's "Collapse".

Antarctica is losing ice in a major way;
SFL ORG. News Center NASA Mission Detects Significant Antarctic Ice Mass Loss

 

[Old Rocks]

Sea ice young and thin as melt season begins

How vulnerable is the ice cover as we go into the summer melt season? To answer this question, scientists also need information about ice thickness. Indications of winter ice thickness, commonly derived from ice age estimates, reveal that the ice is thinner than average, suggesting that it is more susceptible to melting away during the coming summer.

As the melt season begins, the Arctic Ocean is covered mostly by first-year ice, which formed this winter, and second-year ice, which formed during the winter of 2007 to 2008. First-year ice in particular is thinner and more prone to melting away than thicker, older, multi-year ice. This year, ice older than two years accounted for less than 10% of the ice cover at the end of February. From 1981 through 2000, such older ice made up an average of 30% of the total sea ice cover at this time of the year.

While ice older than two years reached record lows, the fraction of second-year sea ice increased compared to last winter. Some of this second-year ice will survive the summer melt season to replenish the Arctic's store of older ice; however, in recent years less young ice has made it through the summer. To restore the amount of older ice to pre-2000 levels, large amounts of this young ice would need to endure through summer for several years in a row.

But conditions may not always favor the survival of second-year and older ice. Each winter, winds and ocean currents move some sea ice out of the Arctic ocean. This winter, some second-year ice survived the 2008 melt season only to be pushed out of the Arctic by strong winter winds. Based on sea ice age data from Jim Maslanik and Chuck Fowler at the University of Colorado, since the end of September 2008, 390,000 square kilometers (150,000 square miles) of second-year ice and 190,000 square kilometers (73,000 square miles) of older (more than two years old) ice moved out of the Arctic. View animation (1.1 MB).
Arctic Sea Ice News & Analysis

 

[Red Dawn]

Ice melts in water, water depth does not increase - Archimedes principal

The ice caps in Greenland and Antarctica are on land, not water. There will be a considerably larger increase in sea level than that predicted by the IPCC.

So why wasn't most of the east coast under water during the years there was very little ice in GREENLAND? How about Europe? I mean they border the Atlantic as well, where did all that water go when GREENLAND was , well GREEN? You are aware of course that GREENLAND was named such because in the years before the main European Nations discovered America, Vikings discovered and LIVED in Greenland?

Ohh and by the way, the Antarctica is NOT shrinking, in fact except a few shelves the ice is getting deeper and the snow cover heavier.

Man your dumb.

Just because you read something on a rightwing blog or heard something on the hannity show, doesn't make you an expert on greenland.

I'm no expert, but I know the greenland ice sheet has existed for thousands of years. The only part of greenland that was ever habitable were the southenr fjords, where there were trees and tolerable climates.

and sea level Has flucuated on the east coast, in the recent geologic past. Never had any science education, did you?

 

[k2skier]

Ice melts in water, water depth does not increase - Archimedes principal

The ice caps in Greenland and Antarctica are on land, not water. There will be a considerably larger increase in sea level than that predicted by the IPCC.

So why wasn't most of the east coast under water during the years there was very little ice in GREENLAND? How about Europe? I mean they border the Atlantic as well, where did all that water go when GREENLAND was , well GREEN? You are aware of course that GREENLAND was named such because in the years before the main European Nations discovered America, Vikings discovered and LIVED in Greenland?

Ohh and by the way, the Antarctica is NOT shrinking, in fact except a few shelves the ice is getting deeper and the snow cover heavier.

I'll highlight the important parts so your closed minded pea brain can attempt to understand the facts.

What is the significance of the disintegration of the northern portion of the Wilkins Ice Shelf? The collapse of the ice shelf will not contribute to sea level rise, since the ice had already been floating on the water. When other ice shelves such as the Larsen, have collapsed, they allowed glaciers to pump more ice into the ocean at a faster rate, which did contribute to sea level rise. The Wilkins Ice Shelf, however, does not buttress any major glacier, says Scambos. The Wilkins Ice Shelf is the tenth major ice shelf to collapse in recent times, another sign that warming temperatures are impacting Earth’s fragile cryosphere.

Try reading before you open your mouth.

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=37806

 

[FactFinder]

Since you are so boneheaded in the narrow minded way of AGW you will probably dismiss this or attempt to marginalize it but I trust the fowllowing science.


Hotbed of Volcanic Activity Found Beneath Arctic Ocean

Findings reported from the first ever detailed exploration of the Gakkel Ridge—the northernmost segment of the worldwide mid-ocean ridge system that snakes for 1,100 miles (1,800 kilometers) beneath the Arctic Ocean—underscore the waiting discoveries on the frontiers of Earth science.

For decades scientists longingly eyed the Gakkel Ridge. But since it lies beneath a cover of sea ice, access to it has been limited. Apart from a single submarine study, much of what was known about the undersea region's geology was extrapolated from studies of other, more accessible, ocean ridges

Since global warming has only recorded a rise of .7 degrees in the last 100 years and we are now in a state of cooling, It is logical that arctic thinning is coming from another source. There is solid proof of the volcanic activity under the ice and due to their limitations in a tough environment they don't have a real measure of its extent. I believe it will bear out that there is much activity going there and likely on the western section of Antarctica. This is only rational as the rest of Antarctica is expanding and cooling.

 

[code1211]

I heard algore drowned when a large wave hit Des Moines this morning....he will be missed.

Why are Republicans obsessed with Al Gore, An Inconvenient Truth was a a typical Hollywood hype movie that was over the top and twisted many facts. Has Drugs Limbaugh been bringing up his name a lot for you all to parrot about Al?

PS-I didn't care much for the movie, too much fear mongering.

I agree that the movie was a Hollywood hype job. Mr. Gore and subsequently others in the educational community presented it as accurate and relevant science instead of political propaganda.

Judging the changes in nature on the time scales of man is a fool's errand. Many are on that errand right now.

 

[code1211]

Sea ice young and thin as melt season begins

How vulnerable is the ice cover as we go into the summer melt season? To answer this question, scientists also need information about ice thickness. Indications of winter ice thickness, commonly derived from ice age estimates, reveal that the ice is thinner than average, suggesting that it is more susceptible to melting away during the coming summer.

<snip>


There should be more ice that is thinner than last year because there is a wider coverage of Arctic Sea Ice than there was last year. This is new ice.

With the eruption of two new major volcanos this Spring, I'm very interested to see if the cooling effect of the added particulates and additional sulfur overcome the added albedo of the darkening ash as it comes to rest on the ice. Two Global Warming factors at odds in the here and now. Of course, the rest of the GW factors will continue to factor in.

I'm new around here so I could not repost your url or the one that I was trying to post. Sorry.

 

[code1211]

With 100% false comment like this your losing credibility fast.
Sustainable living and common sense, not knee jerk over reactions are what I go by.

All data shown by data gathering stations show the opposite of what sinatra is claiming, trying to prove the sky is green, wow.

This isn't a game, it's real, we're warming and the ice is melting, period. We've had a couple of strong winter anomalies in the PNW, but overall the temps have been warmer lately, period, all data shows the same thing. Trying to disprove we're warming is the dumbest thing since trying to prove the earth is flat, the ONLY debate is why we're warming this fast currently, period.

I agree with the part that's red for the most part.

About 100 years before the start of the industrial Revolution, we started warming from the cold spell around the start of the last millenium. This warming trend has continued with some ups and downs up to today. We are currently in a slight down and have been since about 2001.

Using a longer time range, we have now warmed to a point that we had been at about 7000 years ago. At that point, we were cooling from a high point about 10,000 years ago. Prior to that there was an Ice age and it was obviously much cooler.

Point of the post? This current warming started without the help of the Anthropogenic CO2. After it started, it continued and, if we ignor when it started, it can be made to appear that the warming and the anthropogenic CO2 are concurrent.

This kind of slight of hand science is the basis of the AGW crowd's argument. It is this approach that I find disturbing.

I'm new around here and could not repost your url or the one that I wanted to post. Sorry.

 

[FactFinder]

Sea ice young and thin as melt season begins

How vulnerable is the ice cover as we go into the summer melt season? To answer this question, scientists also need information about ice thickness. Indications of winter ice thickness, commonly derived from ice age estimates, reveal that the ice is thinner than average, suggesting that it is more susceptible to melting away during the coming summer.

<snip>


There should be more ice that is thinner than last year because there is a wider coverage of Arctic Sea Ice than there was last year. This is new ice.

With the eruption of two new major volcanos this Spring, I'm very interested to see if the cooling effect of the added particulates and additional sulfur overcome the added albedo of the darkening ash as it comes to rest on the ice. Two Global Warming factors at odds in the here and now. Of course, the rest of the GW factors will continue to factor in.

I'm new around here so I could not repost your url or the one that I was trying to post. Sorry.

If the arctic is warming from below due to volcanoes there will likely be little effect from the particulates.

 

[FactFinder]

The ice caps in Greenland and Antarctica are on land, not water. There will be a considerably larger increase in sea level than that predicted by the IPCC.

So why wasn't most of the east coast under water during the years there was very little ice in GREENLAND? How about Europe? I mean they border the Atlantic as well, where did all that water go when GREENLAND was , well GREEN? You are aware of course that GREENLAND was named such because in the years before the main European Nations discovered America, Vikings discovered and LIVED in Greenland?

Ohh and by the way, the Antarctica is NOT shrinking, in fact except a few shelves the ice is getting deeper and the snow cover heavier.

I'll highlight the important parts so your closed minded pea brain can attempt to understand the facts.

What is the significance of the disintegration of the northern portion of the Wilkins Ice Shelf? The collapse of the ice shelf will not contribute to sea level rise, since the ice had already been floating on the water. When other ice shelves such as the Larsen, have collapsed, they allowed glaciers to pump more ice into the ocean at a faster rate, which did contribute to sea level rise. The Wilkins Ice Shelf, however, does not buttress any major glacier, says Scambos. The Wilkins Ice Shelf is the tenth major ice shelf to collapse in recent times, another sign that warming temperatures are impacting Earth’s fragile cryosphere.

Try reading before you open your mouth.

Wilkins Ice Bridge Collapse : Image of the Day

Except that you ignore facts such as most of Antartica is expanding and do not for a second take in to account the known but under researched volcanic activity. Disregarding other potential causes is the pea minded approach. The global temperature has only risen .7 degrees in a hundred years and has been cooling since 2001. How pea minded is it to take as gospel AGW as the cause of Arctic thinning?

 

[k2skier]

So why wasn't most of the east coast under water during the years there was very little ice in GREENLAND? How about Europe? I mean they border the Atlantic as well, where did all that water go when GREENLAND was , well GREEN? You are aware of course that GREENLAND was named such because in the years before the main European Nations discovered America, Vikings discovered and LIVED in Greenland?

Ohh and by the way, the Antarctica is NOT shrinking, in fact except a few shelves the ice is getting deeper and the snow cover heavier.

I'll highlight the important parts so your closed minded pea brain can attempt to understand the facts.

What is the significance of the disintegration of the northern portion of the Wilkins Ice Shelf? The collapse of the ice shelf will not contribute to sea level rise, since the ice had already been floating on the water. When other ice shelves such as the Larsen, have collapsed, they allowed glaciers to pump more ice into the ocean at a faster rate, which did contribute to sea level rise. The Wilkins Ice Shelf, however, does not buttress any major glacier, says Scambos. The Wilkins Ice Shelf is the tenth major ice shelf to collapse in recent times, another sign that warming temperatures are impacting Earth’s fragile cryosphere.

Try reading before you open your mouth.

Wilkins Ice Bridge Collapse : Image of the Day

Except that you ignore facts such as most of Antartica is expanding and do not for a second take in to account the known but under researched volcanic activity. Disregarding other potential causes is the pea minded approach. The global temperature has only risen .7 degrees in a hundred years and has been cooling since 2001. How pea minded is it to take as gospel AGW as the cause of Arctic thinning?

Because I study all data. I know about the volcanoes. With a La Nina, the snow pack has been very high in parts of the North (and North West) the last 2-5 years. Antarctic has been holding steady, really, not increasing (2-7% increase at most), it depends on how far back you want to go comparing data. You forgot to put a C behind the .7 degree.