Zone1 Are any Christians here interested to know WHY Jews don’t believe Jesus was the Messiah?

[Meriweather]

This is an old video

This is a discussion forum. One cannot discuss anything with a video. I rarely, if ever, bother with outside links--especially not videos.

 

[buttercup]

Religion had better be "works based". We are called to serve God, not to be served ourselves. The Bible tells us to give and it will be given to us; cast bread upon the waters and it will return. The Bible says over fifty times to serve God, so why that intense focus by some that they interpret as saying not to work?

Redemption and salvation are God's gift to us. Gifts are not earned, but shouldn't we at least be thankful? Don't we want to be givers, too? No one can surpass God in giving. Just try to do something for God or anyone and a deluge pours forth. Redemption is already upon us, a gift already ours. There is never any need to earn what is our own already.

Most of us delight in giving to God and to others. It is God's answer to our own plea: Here I am, Lord! Send me! This is an an exciting way of life, another gift from God that surpasses anything we as a human can give in return.

I truly do not understand those who practice their religion by doing nothing--even to the point of saying Jesus took on punishment for all their sins. They believe this, so they get into heaven. That's fine. Drones get into hives, but being a drone is not my position of choice.

I didn't read past your first sentence. That is flatly unbiblical. Please read Titus 3:5 (it's in the post you were replying to) and there are many many other scriptures that say basically the same thing.

 

[Meriweather]

I didn't read past your first sentence.

Figures. I know what Titus says, and it is not saying what you are saying it says.

 

[buttercup]

Yep. So many lost souls missing it by thinking their works will overcome their sin. Sad.

I can't disagree with that. But anyway, I don't want to hijack Lisa's thread. So I don't want to get too off topic here.

 

[Batcat]

is there a single etching or clay relief in pottery a mosaic or painting of such a historic event - or just the likeness of the individual that - came back to life ... proof is in the pudding, that does not exist.

You of course will refuse to accept the arguments in the linked article.

Perhaps that is why the prime requirement to Christianity as practiced by the Protestants is faith.

7 Evidences in Support of the Resurrection

The resurrection of Christ is the most hotly debated event in history. See how these 7 proofs support the belief that Jesus came back to life.

www.learnreligions.com

What is Faith? Bible Meaning and Importance for Christians - Repentance, Faith, and Salvation

Read about What is Faith? Bible Meaning and Importance for Christians - Repentance, Faith, and Salvation. Grow in your understanding of Christianity and faith.

www.christianity.com

 

[buttercup]

Figures. I know what Titus says, and it is not saying what you are saying it says.

As I said, there are tons more scriptures that say basically the same thing. It goes directly against the whole point of the Gospel to think that we can earn our way to heaven through our works. There are numerous reasons why 'salvation by works' does not work.

 

[BS Filter]

You of course will refuse to accept the arguments in the linked article.

Perhaps that is why the prime requirement to Christianity as practiced by the Protestants is faith.

7 Evidences in Support of the Resurrection

The resurrection of Christ is the most hotly debated event in history. See how these 7 proofs support the belief that Jesus came back to life.

www.learnreligions.com

What is Faith? Bible Meaning and Importance for Christians - Repentance, Faith, and Salvation

Read about What is Faith? Bible Meaning and Importance for Christians - Repentance, Faith, and Salvation. Grow in your understanding of Christianity and faith.

www.christianity.com

Religious controllers dislike grace and faith because it pretty much means they have nothing to Lord over the people.

 

[Meriweather]

As I said, there are tons more scriptures that say basically the same thing. It goes directly against the whole point of the Gospel to think that we can earn our way to heaven through our works. There are numerous reasons why 'salvation by works' does not work.

Had you bothered to read what I wrote, I noted it is impossible to earn a gift already given. Titus points out that grace and blessings are also gifts, and not something earned. With gifts of graces, blessings, and salvation why store them in some dark closet, never to be put to use serving God and others? Jesus' teaching in the Parable of the Talents comes to mind.

 

[buttercup]

Religion had better be "works based". We are called to serve God, not to be served ourselves. The Bible tells us to give and it will be given to us; cast bread upon the waters and it will return. The Bible says over fifty times to serve God, so why that intense focus by some that they interpret as saying not to work?

Redemption and salvation are God's gift to us. Gifts are not earned, but shouldn't we at least be thankful? Don't we want to be givers, too? No one can surpass God in giving. Just try to do something for God or anyone and a deluge pours forth. Redemption is already upon us, a gift already ours. There is never any need to earn what is our own already.

Most of us delight in giving to God and to others. It is God's answer to our own plea: Here I am, Lord! Send me! This is an an exciting way of life, another gift from God that surpasses anything we as a human can give in return.

I truly do not understand those who practice their religion by doing nothing--even to the point of saying Jesus took on punishment for all their sins. They believe this, so they get into heaven. That's fine. Drones get into hives, but being a drone is not my position of choice.

Ok, I went back and read the rest of your post. See, this is a HUGE misunderstanding on your part. OF COURSE we're supposed to serve God! And others. OF COURSE we're supposed to do good works, and all the true Christians I know do just that... they give their whole life to serving God and living out their calling... allowing God to use our gifts and talents for His purposes.

So your post is one big straw man. No one has argued that we shouldn't do works! I agree with you on that.

We were talking about what saves us. Works do not save. That was the point. So it's putting the cart before the horse to think that works are necessary to get saved, because in reality good works come as a FRUIT of salvation, not the root.

 

[Meriweather]

There are numerous reasons why 'salvation by works' does not work.

There is no such thing as "Salvation by works". It is as ignorant as saying "Eating by walking on your food doesn't work." Duh. Eating simply isn't done by walking on food, and neither is "salvation by works."

 

[Meriweather]

We were talking about what saves us. Works do not save

Again, you may as well be saying, "Walking on food doesn't feed us." Everybody knows.

 

[buttercup]

There is no such thing as "Salvation by works". It is as ignorant as saying "Eating by walking on your food doesn't work." Duh. Eating simply isn't done by walking on food, and neither is "salvation by works."

So you agree that works do not save? Good, glad we cleared that up.

 

[Meriweather]

So you agree that works do not save? Good, glad we cleared that up.

I am agreeing only the ignorant say, "Works do not save." It is idiocy.

 

[buttercup]

I am agreeing only the ignorant say, "Works do not save." It is idiocy.

That's what the bible says. So the bible is ignorant?

Please speak plainly. Do you believe that works is what saves us or not?

Actually, never mind. I remember now based on previous posts of yours that you don't even believe in the concept of salvation. See, this is why I never went back to Catholic church once I became a believer. It doesn't teach the simple Gospel.

But like I said before, I don't want us to hijack Lisa's thread, so I don't want to keep going back and forth with you. We belong to two different religions.

 

[Meriweather]

I remember now based on previous posts of yours that you don't even believe in the concept of salvation. See, this is why I never went back to Catholic church once I became a believer. It doesn't teach the simple Gospel.

You remember wrong--or you are making it up. Catholics are taught and believe in both redemption and salvation. Not sure how you missed it as a Catholic, but then you missed my own belief in salvation as well.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

That's what the bible says. So the bible is ignorant?

Please speak plainly. Do you believe that works is what saves us or not?

Actually, never mind. I remember now based on previous posts of yours that you don't even believe in the concept of salvation. See, this is why I never went back to Catholic church once I became a believer. It doesn't teach the simple Gospel.

But like I said before, I don't want us to hijack Lisa's thread, so I don't want to keep going back and forth with you. We belong to two different religions.

Catholics, while I mostly agree with their morality, do not know the Bible. I understand why, but I won't get into that here

 

[buttercup]

You remember wrong--or you are making it up. Catholics are taught and believe in both redemption and salvation. Not sure how you missed it as a Catholic, but then you missed my own belief in salvation as well.

I wasn't saying that Catholics don't believe in salvation, or that Catholicism doesn't have any teachings on salvation. But what is taught is very different in a number of ways, and in my experience there was no emphasis on it. We've had this same discussion on other threads in the past, and I remember that you have a very different view on it than mine or other non-Catholic christians. I should have worded my previous post better, but what I meant was that you see it in a completely different way. Anyway, again, I don't want to go back and forth here. I mean, unless Lisa doesn't mind us hijacking her thread.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

I can't disagree with that. But anyway, I don't want to hijack Lisa's thread. So I don't want to get too off topic here.

The problem is, this is believed by the Jewish sect too. So it kind of matters. But like all who disagree, they don't want to hear it.

Personally, I'm still amazed that anyone spends their time getting angry or hurt that someone of a different faith believes they won't be saved without this or that. You have to be really insecure in your own faith if you're this sensitive.

 

[BreezeWood]

That is sounding like a works-based religion, and salvation by works goes directly against what the bible says.

why they gave their lives in the 1st century, their own works to acquire salvation.

the c-bible is written by the crucifiers for their religion of mandatory servitude by portraying jesus for the opposite reason than why they and those other people gave their lives in the 1st century and their belief in liberation theology, self determination.

 

[buttercup]

The probl m is, this is beloved by the Jewish sect too. So it kind of matters. But like all who disagree, they don't want to hear it.

Personally, I'm still amazed that anyone spends their time getting angry or hurt that someone of a different faith believes they won't be saved without this or that. You have to be really insecure if you're this sensitive.

Well, one of the reasons Jesus was hated was for radical teachings that upset the status quo.

I can understand why some people get upset by things like the exclusivity of Christ. Or some of His other teachings.

Btw, speaking of that, I thought this was a very good response, by Dr. William Lane Craig.... it's a short clip that is part of a longer interview. So it's worth watching: