Are Atheists Delusional?

[james bond]

God made them gay and then blamed the victims

God didn't make anybody gay. He made man, woman, and heterosexuality, i.e. sexual reproduction. Homosexuality is due to Adam's sin. It's a choice people make. If you think, they are born that way, then you believe in lies.

 

[ding]

Your choice of words give you away.

What's so happy about living in sin? What do my words give away?

So you believe being sexually attracted to the same gender is a sin?

Why don't you answer my question first? What do my words give away? What does the Bible say about homosexuality?

According to Jesus in Matthew 19, there are natural eunuchs that God made. Of course he goes on to say that they shouldn’t marry.

But to my point you are judging them for who they are and not what they might do.

So I doubt you will answer my question.

You didn't answer my questions nor state your position on homosexuality, but that's just like you.

Eunuchs were born that way which they could not help and those who were made eunuchs. What does that have to do with homosexuals?

The Bible clearly states that homosexual activity is a sin See Genesis 19 1-13; Leviticus 18:22, 20:13; Romans 1:26-27: 1 Corinthians 6:9. Why should people who were born either as man or woman be homosexual? It is a choice and a sin. We were made as man or woman. Being attracted to the same gender is temptation. Just take a cold shower lol.

You don't state your position on it and expect me to guess, but you want my positions on it. I think I made it pretty clear. I don't think people who live in sin are that happy.

I absolutely did answer your question. In fact, I went straight to the source of Christianity for my answer... Jesus.

You didn't ask me my position on homosexuality. You asked me What does the Bible say about homosexuality?

The word that gave you away was "homo." You used it as a slur.

 

[ding]

God made them gay and then blamed the victims

God didn't make anybody gay. He made man, woman, and heterosexuality, i.e. sexual reproduction. Homosexuality is due to Adam's sin. It's a choice people make. If you think, they are born that way, then you believe in lies.

Jesus said otherwise.

 

[ding]

What's so happy about living in sin? What do my words give away?

So you believe being sexually attracted to the same gender is a sin?

Why don't you answer my question first? What do my words give away? What does the Bible say about homosexuality?

According to Jesus in Matthew 19, there are natural eunuchs that God made. Of course he goes on to say that they shouldn’t marry.

But to my point you are judging them for who they are and not what they might do.

So I doubt you will answer my question.

You didn't answer my questions nor state your position on homosexuality, but that's just like you.

Eunuchs were born that way which they could not help and those who were made eunuchs. What does that have to do with homosexuals?

The Bible clearly states that homosexual activity is a sin See Genesis 19 1-13; Leviticus 18:22, 20:13; Romans 1:26-27: 1 Corinthians 6:9. Why should people who were born either as man or woman be homosexual? It is a choice and a sin. We were made as man or woman. Being attracted to the same gender is temptation. Just take a cold shower lol.

You don't state your position on it and expect me to guess, but you want my positions on it. I think I made it pretty clear. I don't think people who live in sin are that happy.

God made them gay and then blamed the victims

You are as bad as he is.

 

[ding]

Your choice of words give you away.

What's so happy about living in sin? What do my words give away?

So you believe being sexually attracted to the same gender is a sin?

Why don't you answer my question first? What do my words give away? What does the Bible say about homosexuality?

According to Jesus in Matthew 19, there are natural eunuchs that God made. Of course he goes on to say that they shouldn’t marry.

But to my point you are judging them for who they are and not what they might do.

So I doubt you will answer my question.

Dear ding some of these eunuchs
can still be healed by natural spiritual healing
based on forgiving and breaking generational curses causing sickness.

Care for the idea of promoting medical research
to prove and develop these methods of natural healing?
This would not only address the Catholic church debts
and damages to help with recovery and prevention of sex abuse
by predatory addicts, but would solve multiple problems in
greater society as well.

See previous posts about using medical studies on healing
with STATISTICAL studies on effective rates of recovery
correlating with degrees of "forgiveness" to
"prove how God's/Universal laws operate" for everyone.

M, everyone is broken. Let them worry about them and us worry about us.

 

[james bond]

I absolutely did answer your question. In fact, I went straight to the source of Christianity for my answer... Jesus.

You didn't ask me my position on homosexuality. You asked me What does the Bible say about homosexuality?

The word that gave you away was "homo." You used it as a slur.

I asked you in my post #1018 and will ask again. What is your position on homosexuality?

As for your last point, you are putting words in my mouth. What a liar.

Next, you go to Jesus because he didn't discuss homosexuality in Matthew nor the Gospels. However, he did say regarding marriage, "At the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate” Matthew 19:4-6

The Bible states homosexuality and adultery, two examples of ungodly sexual relationships, are abominations in front of God.

I think I made my position on it pretty clear. It's based on God's objective moral values. Not the homosexual agenda. Homosexuality is not something that I rail against though because we live in a fallen world and there are all sorts of temptations put in front of people daily. Heteros have to deal with lust and adultery. That's where God's objective moral values helps one choose the right way, i.e. right thinking and behavior. I believe that leads to happiness.

Jesus said otherwise.

Your Bible references are weak.

 

[james bond]

Dear james bond
The evidence you see and cite is based on your terms and understanding.
rightwinger and Taz are not coming from your same background or experiences.
They have to understand things proven from where THEY are each coming from.

When Jesus was dealing with Thomas, he allowed Thomas to examine his
wounds and even handle them himself. He had to see the proof he asked for
and needed. Jesus gave him what he asked. And Thomas used to that to share with others.

In the case of scientific proof that can be replicated and shared with others,
look at my previous post to rightwinger.

What we CAN demonstrate in scientific terms that can be replicated
similar to demonstrating GRAVITY and "how these laws work"
is showing how the laws on FORGIVENESS/UNFORGIVENESS
affect all people. We can either use the laws of forgiveness
in therapy to cure all manner of diseases and ills (including
addictions, abuse, mental and physical sickness, and relationships)
or we can keep suffering under the patterns of UNFORGIVENESS
which we can study also. Scientific studies and stats would show that
* FORGIVENESS correlates with healing diseases, disorders and even relationships
* UNFORGIVENESS correlates with FAILURE to cure these ills and abusive conditions

rightwinger asks for scientific evidence that can be verified.
This approach can actually be replicated.
And the best benefit of it, in applying it, then it would start
curing ills in relationships and society as a side effect.
So everyone wins.
We prove how God's laws work based on forgiveness correlating
with healing, recovery and solving social problems at a higher success rate.
And in the process, we apply this methods to curing diseases,
mental illness and disorders, abuse and addiction, and social ills.

I probably know Taz and rightwinger better than to get into in-depth scientific evidence with them on a forum. They're not much for long discussions and finding the truth. I'm for providing the evidence and I think I have. Each of my points can lead to an in-depth discussion because it is based on the scientific method and creation science. I suppose I can get into more in-depth if they provided any evidence to the contrary. However, they're usually assertions or some illogical argument.

I think you mentioned your post to rightwinger. Did he accept the evidence? What post # is it?

 

[ding]

I absolutely did answer your question. In fact, I went straight to the source of Christianity for my answer... Jesus.

You didn't ask me my position on homosexuality. You asked me What does the Bible say about homosexuality?

The word that gave you away was "homo." You used it as a slur.

I asked you in my post #1018 and will ask again. What is your position on homosexuality?

As for your last point, you are putting words in my mouth. What a liar.

Next, you go to Jesus because he didn't discuss homosexuality in Matthew nor the Gospels. However, he did say regarding marriage, "At the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate” Matthew 19:4-6

The Bible states homosexuality and adultery, two examples of ungodly sexual relationships, are abominations in front of God.

I think I made my position on it pretty clear. It's based on God's objective moral values. Not the homosexual agenda. Homosexuality is not something that I rail against though because we live in a fallen world and there are all sorts of temptations put in front of people daily. Heteros have to deal with lust and adultery. That's where God's objective moral values helps one choose the right way, i.e. right thinking and behavior. I believe that leads to happiness.

Jesus said otherwise.

Your Bible references are weak.

It was post #994 that you asked the question What does the Bible say about homosexuality? I replied to that post in post # 1015. Then in post #1018 you berated me for not answering what my position was on homosexuality which was the first time you asked the question.

So did you make a mistake or are you being dishonest with how you remembered this exchange?

 

[james bond]

I absolutely did answer your question. In fact, I went straight to the source of Christianity for my answer... Jesus.

You didn't ask me my position on homosexuality. You asked me What does the Bible say about homosexuality?

The word that gave you away was "homo." You used it as a slur.

I asked you in my post #1018 and will ask again. What is your position on homosexuality?

As for your last point, you are putting words in my mouth. What a liar.

Next, you go to Jesus because he didn't discuss homosexuality in Matthew nor the Gospels. However, he did say regarding marriage, "At the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate” Matthew 19:4-6

The Bible states homosexuality and adultery, two examples of ungodly sexual relationships, are abominations in front of God.

I think I made my position on it pretty clear. It's based on God's objective moral values. Not the homosexual agenda. Homosexuality is not something that I rail against though because we live in a fallen world and there are all sorts of temptations put in front of people daily. Heteros have to deal with lust and adultery. That's where God's objective moral values helps one choose the right way, i.e. right thinking and behavior. I believe that leads to happiness.

Jesus said otherwise.

Your Bible references are weak.

It was post #994 that you asked the question What does the Bible say about homosexuality? I replied to that post in post # 1015. Then in post #1018 you berated me for not answering what my position was on homosexuality which was the first time you asked the question.

So did you make a mistake or are you being dishonest with how you remembered this exchange?

What I got from you is Jesus. As I already stated, you go to him because he didn't say much on homosexuality. Jesus is part of an argument those who have a homosexual agenda use. To counter it, I stated what Jesus actually said in regards to sexuality and marriage in Matthew. You just ignore that and provide no Scripture in rebuttal. You provided no Scripture of what Jesus said.

So, why don't you grace us with your position on homosexuality? Are you being dishonest by concealing it? If the issue of homosexuality as sin or being happy with it is that important to you, then you should be willing to provide your views.

At least, then I can provide an in-depth discussion if that is what you want.

 

[ding]

As for your last point, you are putting words in my mouth. What a liar.

I did not put words into your mouth. You did it all on your own. I merely pointed it out.

so just to bug your butt buddy

Homos are people who have made a choice to sin

he made himself homo.

Homos are sad people.

Homos are usually not happy being homos.

Homos are an abomination

You can take this rebuke one of two ways. You can thank me for pointing out your sin or you can attack me for doing it. Just ask yourself first if you are want to become what you hate. Do unto others and all that.

 

[BreezeWood]

God made them gay and then blamed the victims

God didn't make anybody gay. He made man, woman, and heterosexuality, i.e. sexual reproduction. Homosexuality is due to Adam's sin. It's a choice people make. If you think, they are born that way, then you believe in lies.

.

God didn't make anybody gay. (they) made man, woman, and heterosexuality, i.e. sexual reproduction.

your own words reduce you to simple bigotry as everyone naturally at any time has the heterosexual capability whatever world view they have chosen - it is your condition of evil that was not in the Garden that is now a need to be rendered asunder for remission to be made possible.

you and your forged document conveniently ignore 1st century mary magdelene and the emergence of that worldview. and accredited by the primary character to the very closing chapter.

.

 

[ding]

I absolutely did answer your question. In fact, I went straight to the source of Christianity for my answer... Jesus.

You didn't ask me my position on homosexuality. You asked me What does the Bible say about homosexuality?

The word that gave you away was "homo." You used it as a slur.

I asked you in my post #1018 and will ask again. What is your position on homosexuality?

As for your last point, you are putting words in my mouth. What a liar.

Next, you go to Jesus because he didn't discuss homosexuality in Matthew nor the Gospels. However, he did say regarding marriage, "At the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate” Matthew 19:4-6

The Bible states homosexuality and adultery, two examples of ungodly sexual relationships, are abominations in front of God.

I think I made my position on it pretty clear. It's based on God's objective moral values. Not the homosexual agenda. Homosexuality is not something that I rail against though because we live in a fallen world and there are all sorts of temptations put in front of people daily. Heteros have to deal with lust and adultery. That's where God's objective moral values helps one choose the right way, i.e. right thinking and behavior. I believe that leads to happiness.

Jesus said otherwise.

Your Bible references are weak.

It was post #994 that you asked the question What does the Bible say about homosexuality? I replied to that post in post # 1015. Then in post #1018 you berated me for not answering what my position was on homosexuality which was the first time you asked the question.

So did you make a mistake or are you being dishonest with how you remembered this exchange?

What I got from you is Jesus. As I already stated, you go to him because he didn't say much on homosexuality. Jesus is part of an argument those who have a homosexual agenda use. To counter it, I stated what Jesus actually said in regards to sexuality and marriage in Matthew. You just ignore that and provide no Scripture in rebuttal. You provided no Scripture of what Jesus said.

So, why don't you grace us with your position on homosexuality? Are you being dishonest by concealing it? If the issue of homosexuality as sin or being happy with it is that important to you, then you should be willing to provide your views.

At least, then I can provide an in-depth discussion if that is what you want.

I'm not going to argue with you about this but I will post what Jesus said.

Divorce
19 When Jesus had finished saying these things, he left Galilee and went into the region of Judea to the other side of the Jordan. 2 Large crowds followed him, and he healed them there. 3 Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?” 4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.” 7 “Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?” 8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.” 10 The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.” 11 Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”

 

[ding]

I absolutely did answer your question. In fact, I went straight to the source of Christianity for my answer... Jesus.

You didn't ask me my position on homosexuality. You asked me What does the Bible say about homosexuality?

The word that gave you away was "homo." You used it as a slur.

I asked you in my post #1018 and will ask again. What is your position on homosexuality?

As for your last point, you are putting words in my mouth. What a liar.

Next, you go to Jesus because he didn't discuss homosexuality in Matthew nor the Gospels. However, he did say regarding marriage, "At the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate” Matthew 19:4-6

The Bible states homosexuality and adultery, two examples of ungodly sexual relationships, are abominations in front of God.

I think I made my position on it pretty clear. It's based on God's objective moral values. Not the homosexual agenda. Homosexuality is not something that I rail against though because we live in a fallen world and there are all sorts of temptations put in front of people daily. Heteros have to deal with lust and adultery. That's where God's objective moral values helps one choose the right way, i.e. right thinking and behavior. I believe that leads to happiness.

Jesus said otherwise.

Your Bible references are weak.

It was post #994 that you asked the question What does the Bible say about homosexuality? I replied to that post in post # 1015. Then in post #1018 you berated me for not answering what my position was on homosexuality which was the first time you asked the question.

So did you make a mistake or are you being dishonest with how you remembered this exchange?

What I got from you is Jesus. As I already stated, you go to him because he didn't say much on homosexuality. Jesus is part of an argument those who have a homosexual agenda use. To counter it, I stated what Jesus actually said in regards to sexuality and marriage in Matthew. You just ignore that and provide no Scripture in rebuttal. You provided no Scripture of what Jesus said.

So, why don't you grace us with your position on homosexuality? Are you being dishonest by concealing it? If the issue of homosexuality as sin or being happy with it is that important to you, then you should be willing to provide your views.

At least, then I can provide an in-depth discussion if that is what you want.

You chose your response poorly.

 

[BreezeWood]

Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given ... The one who can accept this should accept it.”

would that be him speaking for himself - or in sympathy ... surly the latter.

 

[james bond]

your own words reduce you to simple bigotry as everyone naturally at any time has the heterosexual capability whatever world view they have chosen - it is your condition of evil that was not in the Garden that is now a need to be rendered asunder for remission to be made possible.

you and your forged document conveniently ignore 1st century mary magdelene and the emergence of that worldview. and accredited by the primary character to the very closing chapter.

Why is it bigotry when you cannot provide evidence nor a valid argument why men, women, and hermaphrodites are the only genders?

Yet, you provide ample evidence of your bigotry towards Christians as an evil condition when you cannot provide any Biblical references correctly. Even your metaphors are vague.

 

[rightwinger]

How do you know it was a lie? What do you have against it? The evidence is overwhelmingly for it.

Because a cataclysm of that magnitude would leave evidence
Given the numbers of species of mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians, insects.....
It would be impossible to contain them on an ark and feed and water them for 40 days

The Bible made it up

All of the species didn't have to be brought on the Ark. God called them there and he just had the basic species come. They would populate the different species by natural selection.

What you are doing is committing the fallacy of jumping to conclusions -- "Because a cataclysm of that magnitude would leave evidence" and "it would be impossible to contain them on a ark and feed and water them for 40 days," and "The Bible made it up." I gave the Ark Encounter as evidence. It shows how the all the different animals that God called fits on the ark and how it was done. There is also the creation museum.

I can give you more evidence such as marine fossils on top of Mt. Everest, the mid-Atlantic ridge, and 3/4 of the Earth is covered by surface water. No other planet is like it. We also have the fine tuning facts.

If the Bible made it up, then it would have be disproved long ago. Instead, science backs up the Bible even though it's not a science book.

Now you are making shit up
Bible said all the species two by two
Not just mammals but reptiles, birds, amphibians, insects, worms ..everything

 

[james bond]

As for your last point, you are putting words in my mouth. What a liar.

I did not put words into your mouth. You did it all on your own. I merely pointed it out.

so just to bug your butt buddy

Homos are people who have made a choice to sin

he made himself homo.

Homos are sad people.

Homos are usually not happy being homos.

Homos are an abomination

You can take this rebuke one of two ways. You can thank me for pointing out your sin or you can attack me for doing it. Just ask yourself first if you are want to become what you hate. Do unto others and all that.

You were doing better at Jesus haha. Now, you're quote mining and taking things out of context; it's setting up a bigoted straw man.

Instead, you are avoiding the issue of stating your position on homosexuality. That's another fallacy. Do you have a homosexual agenda? Are you gay?

 

[james bond]

Now you are making shit up
Bible said all the species two by two
Not just mammals but reptiles, birds, amphibians, insects, worms ..everything

Where is the Scripture to back you up?

 

[emilynghiem]

God made them gay and then blamed the victims

God didn't make anybody gay. He made man, woman, and heterosexuality, i.e. sexual reproduction. Homosexuality is due to Adam's sin. It's a choice people make. If you think, they are born that way, then you believe in lies.

^ james bond ^
Yes, you are essentially saying the same thing or referring to the same
PROCESS.
The SIN of the past generations is REVISITED on future generations.
This is called GENERATIONAL sins or curses.
That IS how GOD'S LAWS WORK.

This can be manifested in terms of homosexuality
and now transgender identity.

The causes may be more IN THE WOMB and not so much in the genetics.
The Bible refers to BOTH eunuchs born FROM THEIR MOTHERS' WOMBS
and those MADE BY MAN

Matthew 19:12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way …
For there are eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb:
and there are eunuchs, which were made eunuchs by men: and there are eunuchs, which made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake.

What you are saying when you refer to sins of ADAM
is still by GOD'S LAWS.

Whatever we don't forgive can't be healed so the past
patterns REPEAT.

Yes, it is a choice to forgive.
But if people don't know where these patterns come from
and don't think the conditions can be changed,
then they don't think they have a choice.

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear james bond
The evidence you see and cite is based on your terms and understanding.
rightwinger and Taz are not coming from your same background or experiences.
They have to understand things proven from where THEY are each coming from.

When Jesus was dealing with Thomas, he allowed Thomas to examine his
wounds and even handle them himself. He had to see the proof he asked for
and needed. Jesus gave him what he asked. And Thomas used to that to share with others.

In the case of scientific proof that can be replicated and shared with others,
look at my previous post to rightwinger.

What we CAN demonstrate in scientific terms that can be replicated
similar to demonstrating GRAVITY and "how these laws work"
is showing how the laws on FORGIVENESS/UNFORGIVENESS
affect all people. We can either use the laws of forgiveness
in therapy to cure all manner of diseases and ills (including
addictions, abuse, mental and physical sickness, and relationships)
or we can keep suffering under the patterns of UNFORGIVENESS
which we can study also. Scientific studies and stats would show that
* FORGIVENESS correlates with healing diseases, disorders and even relationships
* UNFORGIVENESS correlates with FAILURE to cure these ills and abusive conditions

rightwinger asks for scientific evidence that can be verified.
This approach can actually be replicated.
And the best benefit of it, in applying it, then it would start
curing ills in relationships and society as a side effect.
So everyone wins.
We prove how God's laws work based on forgiveness correlating
with healing, recovery and solving social problems at a higher success rate.
And in the process, we apply this methods to curing diseases,
mental illness and disorders, abuse and addiction, and social ills.

I probably know Taz and rightwinger better than to get into in-depth scientific evidence with them on a forum. They're not much for long discussions and finding the truth. I'm for providing the evidence and I think I have. Each of my points can lead to an in-depth discussion because it is based on the scientific method and creation science. I suppose I can get into more in-depth if they provided any evidence to the contrary. However, they're usually assertions or some illogical argument.

I think you mentioned your post to rightwinger. Did he accept the evidence? What post # is it?

Dear james bond
rightwinger has not replied to my offer to set up a
scientific process/proof that can work using sociological statistics
to show a pattern of correlations.

The sources I would use for such a study would be the
healing methods already proven by a medical study to
have positive effects on Rheumatoid Arthritis that could
only be attributed to the healing prayer methods that the team used.
Dr. Francis MacNutt, HEALING, 1999 edition or later

What you might find significant is their healing methods
HAVE been used successfully to help many people to
heal from unwanted homosexual orientation and
recover from abuses:

Interview – Francis Judith MacNutt – Mastering Life

updated link:

http://pneumareview.com/conversation-with-francis-and-judith-macnutt/

David: Someone has suggested that homosexuals need to have their confused orientation healed before they are allowed into the priesthood. What do you think about that?

Francis: Unfortunately, I don’t think there is that much known among the clergy as a whole about healing the homosexual. That is why we are trying to bring healing back into the church. Even with physical healing, it’s not fully understood in the population of priests that it can take place.

David: You’ve had a lot of success in your ministry with healing the homosexual. What do you do? How do you pray for a homosexual?

Francis: We’ve had some and Judith’s had more actually. She had 20 clients when she was seeing patients in Clearwater who were either homosexual or lesbian in orientation, and they were all healed. Now, it took time. I think that really needs to be said. It is mostly over a period of time and in some depth.

David: Tell a story or two of people that you minister to, Judith, in this area to illustrate how you try to help the homosexual.

Judith: The first thing that has to be said is that they must want to be healed. By and large there are a lot of homosexuals and lesbians that are very happy with their lifestyle. They have found someone that they really care about, and they want to remain in that lifestyle. So, the first thing in coming for healing is saying, Lord Jesus, help me. As in any area of our lives whether it’s weakness, sin, or whatever, we have to ask for the help of Jesus.

David: And how would you actually pray for them?

Judith: The actual prayer itself is not that much different than it would be for anybody else who is wounded in any area of their life. So many of us struggle with broken sexuality because of the way we were raised, the way we were taught, the ways our parents modeled or didn’t model healthy sexuality, because so much of our sexuality is tied up in our identity, and identity issues need to be healed in most people. Very few of us really know the true-self that God created. Most of us function out of a false-self, so getting back to the true-self and the real true sexual identity is pretty much the same process for any issue that we would work with in inner healing. It involves going back to the childhood, and finding out was the person wanted. So many people say I didn’t want a boy, I wanted a girl, or I didn’t want a girl, I wanted a boy, and so there was a rejection of their very sexual identity from the time they were born.

I was reading somewhere yesterday where it was so important to a certain couple that they have a boy, and they had eight girls, and they kept trying and trying and trying, and finally they had to adopt a boy. Well, what message did that give to the eight daughters? You have no value and you were just a mistake. So there are all kinds of identity issues in childhood; there is rejection, there is wounding, there is sexual abuse, perhaps incest, perhaps someone outside the family. But so many of the people that I worked with had real broken identities – they just didn’t know who they were in God or why they were here or where they were going. It would usually take about six months of psychotherapy, inner healing and generational healing for the person to come to a fullness of their identity.



David: It is quite common that male homosexuals haven’t had a positive or strong father figure to call them into masculinity. How do you pray for that situation?

Judith: I found it took a multifaceted approach. We would do the inner healing work with God as father and Jesus as brother coming into the masculine identity that God had already created within them. In a deep father wound we would do the prayers of God the Father becoming their father, which He is, and then healing the brokenness that relates to the earthly father – the deep longing for Abba, with the daddy figure holding and loving them, accepting rather than rejecting them, having conditional love for them. We would have them sit with God the Father and let Him hold them during the inner healing prayer. I would have them listen to the voice of God – “What is He saying to you? Is He rejecting you?” And they would always with great tears of joy say, “No. He’s telling me He loves me, but wants more for me,” and God would speak all these beautiful words of love to them, and they would start having healing dreams and healing images and visions. Once the Spirit started working in them, that would start this whole healing process.

I also asked for help within the Christian community wherever I’ve been, especially in private practice, I would ask for men from the community to come and take them under wing and take them out to dinner or take them fishing, take them biking, do whatever, have them in their home and embrace them as part of a Christian loving family. So it’s not just prayer. This is where the church needs to respond. It’s men and women stepping forward, parenting, what we would call re-parenting in psychology, and bringing them along. And the ones that were able to go through that experience were all healed.

David: When whatever has gone wrong is finally healed — whether it’s the masculine or the feminine identity or whether it’s the trauma from child abuse — what then happens to the homosexual identity versus the heterosexual identity?

Judith: The homosexual identity cannot coexist with a God-given identity so it just starts to go away. Now the struggle that some would have that were very active sexually, in pornography or in being very promiscuous, those images took longer to go away. It’s just like anybody addicted to pornography – the images sometimes remain. That’s where discipline and prayer had to come in for the individual to reject those images and to bring in the cross and the blood of Jesus to cover them, and then to put positive images in their place.

David: And in some, I would imagine, the true-self, the true heterosexual identity began to flower.

Judith: Oh, yes. The beautiful image starts to emerge within them of the way God created them to be, and they would come to such life in their identity and such joy in being the one that God created them to be. Many of them would say to me, “I always felt like I was living a lie when I was in this lifestyle. I was always full of shame. I was always full of a sense that it really wasn’t me. It felt like someone else.” It was kind of like an alter-identity or an alter-ego, because when God starts in a therapeutic process, basically what He is doing is dismantling the ego that has developed, and replacing it with what is originally there, which is still there, but it’s under this alter-ego/alter-identity.

Francis: The sad thing is that conservative Christians often don’t offer homosexuals anything except condemnation. It takes six months of weekly individual counseling and an intense changing and building up of the individual. Shouting about it doesn’t help very much. It just makes things worse.