Are atheists materialists?

[dblack]

Do you believe in an absolute truth?

Somewhat.

Do you believe in reality?

Which one?

 

[ding]

Lifeforce: the spirit or energy that animates living creatures; the soul.

Atheists who believe that there is a spirit that animates their soul just use a different word for God. They reject theology. They reject religion, but they do not reject God because they believe that all souls are animated.

Therefore, they aren't atheists. They believe in God-Lite.

Perhaps some believe that. I do not. I do not believe in any god. But I believe there is more to us than the purely physical. I do not believe that life force, as you call it, is the same as a god.

How would you know the difference?

I believe that I do. Which is all anyone can honestly say.

So you take it on faith.

 

[ding]

Do you believe in an absolute truth?

Somewhat.

Do you believe in reality?

Which one?

There's only one existence.

 

[WinterBorn]

Maybe we're just sick of chasing you around the mulberry bush. You clearly have no interest in rational discourse, and it doesn't bother you to fling around blatant fallacies. And when they are pointed out to you, you just play dodge 'em. So, sort our your own logical clusterfuck. It should keep you plenty busy.

Because I think it is illogical for people who don't believe in a God to believe in a life force that is a spirit that animates their soul?

Give me a break.

Contrary to what you think, that you think it illogical has no bearing on the validity of those beliefs.

Do you believe in an absolute truth?

In some things, yes. But as far as beliefs? No.

Why do you feel the need to categorize people's beliefs or people by their beliefs?

So if I have a belief that I should look both ways before crossing the street you would see that as subjective or relative?

I would see that as irrelevant to my question.

That you feel the need to categorize people by whether they believe they should look left then right, and separate them from those who look right then left, would be a more accurate analogy for my question.

 

[dblack]

Do you believe in an absolute truth?

Somewhat.

Do you believe in reality?

Which one?

There's only one existence.

And your proof is?

 

[ding]

reality: the world or the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them.

reality: the state or quality of having existence or substance.

 

[WinterBorn]

Lifeforce: the spirit or energy that animates living creatures; the soul.

Atheists who believe that there is a spirit that animates their soul just use a different word for God. They reject theology. They reject religion, but they do not reject God because they believe that all souls are animated.

Therefore, they aren't atheists. They believe in God-Lite.

Perhaps some believe that. I do not. I do not believe in any god. But I believe there is more to us than the purely physical. I do not believe that life force, as you call it, is the same as a god.

How would you know the difference?

I believe that I do. Which is all anyone can honestly say.

So you take it on faith.

Not what I said. My beliefs are the result of what I feel, what I have experienced, and of much thought and study.

 

[WinterBorn]

Lifeforce: the spirit or energy that animates living creatures; the soul.

Atheists who believe that there is a spirit that animates their soul just use a different word for God. They reject theology. They reject religion, but they do not reject God because they believe that all souls are animated.

Therefore, they aren't atheists. They believe in God-Lite.

Perhaps some believe that. I do not. I do not believe in any god. But I believe there is more to us than the purely physical. I do not believe that life force, as you call it, is the same as a god.

How would you know the difference?

How do you know the difference?

 

[ding]

Because I think it is illogical for people who don't believe in a God to believe in a life force that is a spirit that animates their soul?

Give me a break.

Contrary to what you think, that you think it illogical has no bearing on the validity of those beliefs.

Do you believe in an absolute truth?

In some things, yes. But as far as beliefs? No.

Why do you feel the need to categorize people's beliefs or people by their beliefs?

So if I have a belief that I should look both ways before crossing the street you would see that as subjective or relative?

I would see that as irrelevant to my question.

That you feel the need to categorize people by whether they believe they should look left then right, and separate them from those who look right then left, would be a more accurate analogy for my question.

It's a belief. The question is is it an objective belief or a subjective belief.

 

[WinterBorn]

Contrary to what you think, that you think it illogical has no bearing on the validity of those beliefs.

Do you believe in an absolute truth?

In some things, yes. But as far as beliefs? No.

Why do you feel the need to categorize people's beliefs or people by their beliefs?

So if I have a belief that I should look both ways before crossing the street you would see that as subjective or relative?

I would see that as irrelevant to my question.

That you feel the need to categorize people by whether they believe they should look left then right, and separate them from those who look right then left, would be a more accurate analogy for my question.

It's a belief. The question is is it an objective belief or a subjective belief.

And you were planning on answering my question when?

 

[ding]

Lifeforce: the spirit or energy that animates living creatures; the soul.

Atheists who believe that there is a spirit that animates their soul just use a different word for God. They reject theology. They reject religion, but they do not reject God because they believe that all souls are animated.

Therefore, they aren't atheists. They believe in God-Lite.

Perhaps some believe that. I do not. I do not believe in any god. But I believe there is more to us than the purely physical. I do not believe that life force, as you call it, is the same as a god.

How would you know the difference?

How do you know the difference?

I don't believe there is. That's kind of the point of this thread. You don't reject the supernatural. You reject theology. You reject religion. That doesn't make you an atheist.

 

[WinterBorn]

Maybe we're just sick of chasing you around the mulberry bush. You clearly have no interest in rational discourse, and it doesn't bother you to fling around blatant fallacies. And when they are pointed out to you, you just play dodge 'em. So, sort our your own logical clusterfuck. It should keep you plenty busy.

Because I think it is illogical for people who don't believe in a God to believe in a life force that is a spirit that animates their soul?

Give me a break.

Contrary to what you think, that you think it illogical has no bearing on the validity of those beliefs.

Do you believe in an absolute truth?

In some things, yes. But as far as beliefs? No.

Why do you feel the need to categorize people's beliefs or people by their beliefs?

So if I have a belief that I should look both ways before crossing the street you would see that as subjective or relative?

Is your belief based on faith or from knowledge of valid reasons for looking both ways (like close calls from being run over?)

 

[WinterBorn]

Lifeforce: the spirit or energy that animates living creatures; the soul.

Atheists who believe that there is a spirit that animates their soul just use a different word for God. They reject theology. They reject religion, but they do not reject God because they believe that all souls are animated.

Therefore, they aren't atheists. They believe in God-Lite.

Perhaps some believe that. I do not. I do not believe in any god. But I believe there is more to us than the purely physical. I do not believe that life force, as you call it, is the same as a god.

How would you know the difference?

How do you know the difference?

I don't believe there is. That's kind of the point of this thread. You don't reject the supernatural. You reject theology. You reject religion. That doesn't make you an atheist.

I have posted the definition of "atheist". My beliefs fit that definition. I see no reason to redefine them because you take issue with them.

I do not believe in a deity. By definition, I am an atheist. Belief in other incorporeal things does not change that, since I do not believe any of those are a deity.

 

[ding]

Do you believe in an absolute truth?

In some things, yes. But as far as beliefs? No.

Why do you feel the need to categorize people's beliefs or people by their beliefs?

So if I have a belief that I should look both ways before crossing the street you would see that as subjective or relative?

I would see that as irrelevant to my question.

That you feel the need to categorize people by whether they believe they should look left then right, and separate them from those who look right then left, would be a more accurate analogy for my question.

It's a belief. The question is is it an objective belief or a subjective belief.

And you were planning on answering my question when?

It is a matter of convenience. I could say you are a naturalist or a materialist or an atheist because it is easier to say that then it is someone who does not believe that consciousness created existence.

I could literally say the same thing about you and your simplified definition of an atheist. Atheists don't really want to discuss their beliefs. They want to discuss their disbelief. You can't know something by what it isn't, you can only know it by what it is. I tried to explain to you - unsuccessfully - that the key distinction between atheism and theism is what created existence. That is the seminal event.

 

[edthecynic]

The question came up in another discussion and I was surprised to discover their belief. It deserved its own thread because their response seemed inconsistent with their belief that there isn’t anything which is incorporeal which does not come from material beings.

It was almost as if they believed there was some life force at work which by my accounting is inconsistent with the atheist world view that nothing exists outside of the material world.

No you started this thread because your BS got thoroughly exposed by Existentialism.

It was proven to you that, for example, the composer has to physically exist FIRST before a composition that remains after the composer's physical existence ends still spiritually moves the listener long after! There is nothing inconsistent in the Atheist's world view with Existentialism. You as a Theist are just not honest enough to admit it, and as a Theist you never will be.

 

[ding]

So there are two ways I can describe an atheist; by what they don't believe or by what they do believe. Saying they don't believe in the existence of God is the negative form of their belief and tells me nothing of what they do believe. The positive form of what an atheist believes is that they believe everything proceed from the material world, the natural world.

I could just as soon say I don't love this woman but it doesn't tell you what woman I love. I am quite certain you will dismiss everything I said and I'm Ok with that. I'm planting seeds.

 

[ding]

The question came up in another discussion and I was surprised to discover their belief. It deserved its own thread because their response seemed inconsistent with their belief that there isn’t anything which is incorporeal which does not come from material beings.

It was almost as if they believed there was some life force at work which by my accounting is inconsistent with the atheist world view that nothing exists outside of the material world.

No you started this thread because your BS got thoroughly exposed by Existentialism.

It was proven to you that, for example, the composer has to physically exist FIRST before a composition that remains after the composer's physical existence ends still spiritually moves the listener long after! There is nothing inconsistent in the Atheist's world view with Existentialism. You as a Theist are just not honest enough to admit it, and as a Theist you never will be.

And it still proceeded from the material world.

Besides, under the atheism worldview being moved by music is just a chemical reaction in the brain. There is no higher meaning to anything.

 

[WinterBorn]

In some things, yes. But as far as beliefs? No.

Why do you feel the need to categorize people's beliefs or people by their beliefs?

So if I have a belief that I should look both ways before crossing the street you would see that as subjective or relative?

I would see that as irrelevant to my question.

That you feel the need to categorize people by whether they believe they should look left then right, and separate them from those who look right then left, would be a more accurate analogy for my question.

It's a belief. The question is is it an objective belief or a subjective belief.

And you were planning on answering my question when?

It is a matter of convenience. I could say you are a naturalist or a materialist or an atheist because it is easier to say that then it is someone who does not believe that consciousness created existence.

I could literally say the same thing about you and your simplified definition of an atheist. Atheists don't really want to discuss their beliefs. They want to discuss their disbelief. You can't know something by what it isn't, you can only know it by what it is. I tried to explain to you - unsuccessfully - that the key distinction between atheism and theism is what created existence. That is the seminal event.

And still, you do not answer my question.

My belief is that a deity does not exist. Not much to discuss. If I said I do not collect stamps, would you want me to discuss not collecting stamps?

I disagree that the beginning of existence is a seminal event for our beliefs or lack thereof. It happened in the distant past, regardless of which source you believe. That the universe exists is what is relevant. How I live my life is the seminal event. Each interaction with the universe, and especially the lives in it, is the continuous seminal event that defines my life. Not some interstellar example of physics or a myth concerning a hidden deity that waved his hands and made everything appear.

 

[edthecynic]

My observation of Theists is they are the most materialistic people on Earth, they only worship the God Almighty Dollar.

 

[ding]

My observation of Theists is they are the most materialistic people on Earth, they only worship the God Almighty Dollar.

Yes, they are materialist. The most materialistic? I'm not sure about that. Solzhenitsyn gave an excellent speech on that very subject. I shared it with WB, but I doubt he read it. If he did he never commented on it.