Are conservative values dying? If so, why?

[hazlnut]

I believe it is. Our country seems to be veering to the left. Why?

Or a small minority is so far out on the right fringe that center-right appears left to them.

 

[Uncensored2008]

People and cultures go through stages of development,
from "fundamentalist" of doing the right thing out of respect for elders and authority,
to questioning and even rebelling in order to arrive at values and decisions
INDEPENDENTLY by free will and reason and informed choice.

That may be, but were are long past that stage and into one of stagnation and decay.

So it's like teenagers learning to form their own identity and volition as young adults.
This is necessary to take on responsibility without "just being told what to do."
But it also can lead to rebellion and experimentation and learning from mistakes
as part of the process.

Which explains the 1790's quite well, but we now are in a stage similar to Caligula's Rome. The American left has jettisoned all independent thought and all ethical codes, seeking instead a strong man to foster them.

Where America has been is in this teenage phase, whining that you aren't getting what you want or what everyone else is, or that the parents are abusing authority to control you, etc.

Utterly absurd. The single super-power on the globe is suffering from the realities of contraction and the challenge of other rising powers. We are in the declining years. A 90 year old woman can get tattoos, go to a club in a micro-skirt, but she isn't a teen.

So it's not that such rebellion against imposed mores is the point in itself, because clearly that is not sustainable if all you are doing is reacting against something else.

The real process going on is learning to arrive at the same decisions freely by choice, not by force of law or fear of punishment like a child. We do need intellectual and political freedom in order to make choices by reason and not blind faith in authority always being right!

What we see from the left isn't rebellion, but the abdication of all personal responsibility - in exchange they surrender and demand that we all surrender, all individual liberty. Sadly this is a phase all declining empires go through. It is simply the mark of our fall.

 

[Gadawg73]

I believe it is. Our country seems to be veering to the left. Why?

I find it very hard to believe it's based on free shit. Not enough Americans are on the public dole to make up for the shift. The left has been successful with their message communication. Be it good or bad we are behind the curve.

I remember getting out of prison with 100 dollars (parole money) and thinking I couldn't wait to get a job and start my life. From being TOTALLY suppoeted by the tax payer to being TOTALLY independent and successful.No other feeling matches being self reliant and knowing I have options I can persue because of conservative values.

Almost makes me think that people have been coddled for so long they have no concept of their own potential.

You know why you guys are becoming irrelevant? Because all you worry about is cutting taxes for rich people. You seem to have no interest in correcting the steadily stagnating wage structure of American workers. This has been happening since Ronald Reagan's "supply side economics," and it is becoming apparent that it was really just a way to fuck over Americans and get rid of labor unions.

BS, most of us are not "rich people".
Tax cutting affects EVERYONE that pays taxes.
Labor unions fucked themselves.
Their decades long run of thievery, fraud, criminal acts and extortion are over.
I really enjoy seeing them get THEIR ass kicked now.
I have worked for 40 years full time, sometimes with 3 jobs in my mid 20s.
NO rich person has ever fucked me and I doubt you could name anyone that ever was.

 

[Gadawg73]

Ted Kennedy was one of the finest Senators in US history

Yeah....

{WASHINGTON - Bush administration failures to shut down al-Qaida and rebuild Iraq have fueled the insurgency and made the United States more vulnerable to a nuclear attack by terrorists, Sen. Edward M. Kennedy says.

In a speech prepared for delivery at George Washington University on Monday, Kennedy said that by shifting attention from Osama bin Laden to Iraq, President Bush had increased the danger of a "nuclear 9/11." He said it was a good thing Bush was not in charge during the Cuban missile crisis in 1962, a nuclear confrontation with Russia when Kennedy's brother was president.

"The war in Iraq has made the mushroom cloud more likely, not less likely," Kennedy said. Using imagery from the Vietnam War, he said U.S. soldiers are bogged down in a quagmire with no end in sight. }

What a brilliant mind - the veritable TruthMatters of the United States Senate.

Once again, Kennedy was spot on

By invading Iraq, Bush destabilized the region and removed a counterbalance to Iran. After the US attack, Iran pursued nuclear weapons to deter US aggression.

bush made us less safe...not more

And THANK GOD Bush was not in charge during the Cuban missile crisis

You got it almost all right.
Iran did not pursue nukes to deter US "aggression".
Just the opposite. We became aggressive towards Iran long ago because of their state sponsored support of terrorism and it increased with their pursuit of nukes.
And rightfully so. They are our enemy.

 

[Dutch]

Conservatism exists as a barrier to progress, and in the long run progress almost always wins.

Fifty years ago, conservatives were fighting for the right of states to maintain segregation.

One hundred years ago, conservatives were fighting to keep women from getting the vote.

"Progress" should be impeded with it leads to society destruction and death.

I like us being a Republic. I will continually oppose any progress to totalitarianism. i dont need the government micromanaging my life. or making me an outlaw for exercising my freedom a way the government bureaucrats dont like.

BTW So called conservatives: Freed the slaves, fought segregation, and fought for womens rights for centuries before progressives decided to destroy the nation and pretend to fix problems.

Republicans did those things but not conservatives.

 

[Lakhota]

Are conservative values dying? If so, why?

This board should be a good hint...

 

[Votto]

The Conservative movement is dying because it has been hijacked by low voltage brains.

It used to be a Conservative was the smartest person in the room. Reading Bill Buckley each week was like breathing pure oxygen.

Today, reading an allegedly "conservative" media outlet is like sucking on a tailpipe. Cerebral suicide.

I'm sick of the parroting retards unquestioningly regurgitating the bullshit shoveled into their slack-jawed mouths. The only "values" in the "conservative" movement these days are, "Whatever makes the other guys look or sound bad, regardless of whether it is true."

Chairman Bill is spinning in his grave.

Critical thinking and truth used to be the priority. No longer. Smearing the other guy takes precedence.

Nothing is EVER put on the table. Just look at the topics started here by the right wingers. All attacks. Nothing constructive is ever offered. Just hack attacks.

So when you speak of "values", um...WHAT values? I see nothing but hypocritical lip service and lies. Here are today's "Conservative" values: "We're great, you suck!"

Now if you will excuse me, I need to go read some Breitbart and find out how many rounds of golf Obama has played to date.

Bill Buckley lived in an ivory tower. Government has never been closed to being conservative since its founding nor does it have any interest in it.

That is not to say that pandering to conservatives is a bad thing. Clearly people like to be offered something other than the status quo from time to time, so it sells. Just compare the ratings of conservative talking heads to their liberal counterparts. I think it gives the illusion that we live in a democracy where we actually have choices. In truth, our destiny has been decided for us by generations of progressivism. We have no real choices.

 

[Cowman]

Mexican Americans don't like to just get into gang fights,
they like flowers and music and white girls named Debbie too.

Mexican Americans are named Chata and Chella and chemma
and have a son in law named jeff.

Mexican Americans don't like to get up early in the morning
but they have to so they do it real slow.

Mexican Americans love education so they go to night school
and take spanish and get a B.

Mexican Americans love their Nana's and their Nono's and their
Nina's and their Nino's........ Nano Nano Nina Nono!

Mexican Americans don't like to go to the movies where the
dude has to wear contact lenses to make his blue eyes brown
cause don't it make my brown eyes blue.....

That's part of it.

Racism is part of it?

 

[Votto]

I believe it is. Our country seems to be veering to the left. Why?

I find it very hard to believe it's based on free shit. Not enough Americans are on the public dole to make up for the shift. The left has been successful with their message communication. Be it good or bad we are behind the curve.

I remember getting out of prison with 100 dollars (parole money) and thinking I couldn't wait to get a job and start my life. From being TOTALLY suppoeted by the tax payer to being TOTALLY independent and successful.No other feeling matches being self reliant and knowing I have options I can persue because of conservative values.

Almost makes me think that people have been coddled for so long they have no concept of their own potential.

Morality is formed by those we look up to in authority. Just look at how moral issues like slavery have changed over the years. When it was legal, everyone seemed to think it was OK, but after centuries of being illegal, it seems ridiculous.

What can you say, people are lemmings, sheep, stupid etc. Part of me thinks that atheism and secular humanism is the key to statism. If you begin to remove opposing competitive authority figures, you gain more control over the masses. Of course, the Founding Fathers experienced the state taking over the pulpit, which is another approach. This is why abortion and gay marriage etc, are being pushed so much in my opinion. People are not really interested in their rights. If they were, they would let polygamists marry as well. The fact remains that those of faith have issues with things like gay marriage, so it becomes priority #1 to demagogue the issue in order to convince people that religion is bad and that their only alternative is Big Brother as their replacement.

 

[Againsheila]

I believe it is. Our country seems to be veering to the left. Why?

I find it very hard to believe it's based on free shit. Not enough Americans are on the public dole to make up for the shift. The left has been successful with their message communication. Be it good or bad we are behind the curve.

I remember getting out of prison with 100 dollars (parole money) and thinking I couldn't wait to get a job and start my life. From being TOTALLY suppoeted by the tax payer to being TOTALLY independent and successful.No other feeling matches being self reliant and knowing I have options I can persue because of conservative values.

Almost makes me think that people have been coddled for so long they have no concept of their own potential.

You know why you guys are becoming irrelevant? Because all you worry about is cutting taxes for rich people. You seem to have no interest in correcting the steadily stagnating wage structure of American workers. This has been happening since Ronald Reagan's "supply side economics," and it is becoming apparent that it was really just a way to fuck over Americans and get rid of labor unions.

This is the "message" part I was talking about.

I don't think or feel that way. The tax cuts were across the board cuts yet they are SUCCESSFULLY labeled cuts for the rich.

And I'd like this discussion to be broad rather than degrade to an argument over one talking point.

How can it be across the board when the taxes on the upper 10% were lowered so much that the top tax rate now applies to the middle class?

 

[Avatar4321]

I believe it is. Our country seems to be veering to the left. Why?

Or a small minority is so far out on the right fringe that center-right appears left to them.

Why do you guys think balancing our budget and paying our debts is a radical concept? Or personal responsibility? Why do you think working for what we want is radical? Or actually having the Federal Government limited by the Constitution?

What is radical about any of this?

 

[LoneLaugher]

I believe it is. Our country seems to be veering to the left. Why?

Or a small minority is so far out on the right fringe that center-right appears left to them.

Why do you guys think balancing our budget and paying our debts is a radical concept? Or personal responsibility? Why do you think working for what we want is radical? Or actually having the Federal Government limited by the Constitution?

What is radical about any of this?

All of which is your imagination at work.

 

[Dutch]

I believe it is. Our country seems to be veering to the left. Why?

I find it very hard to believe it's based on free shit. Not enough Americans are on the public dole to make up for the shift. The left has been successful with their message communication. Be it good or bad we are behind the curve.

I remember getting out of prison with 100 dollars (parole money) and thinking I couldn't wait to get a job and start my life. From being TOTALLY suppoeted by the tax payer to being TOTALLY independent and successful.No other feeling matches being self reliant and knowing I have options I can persue because of conservative values.

Almost makes me think that people have been coddled for so long they have no concept of their own potential.

You know why you guys are becoming irrelevant? Because all you worry about is cutting taxes for rich people. You seem to have no interest in correcting the steadily stagnating wage structure of American workers. This has been happening since Ronald Reagan's "supply side economics," and it is becoming apparent that it was really just a way to fuck over Americans and get rid of labor unions.

BS, most of us are not "rich people".
Tax cutting affects EVERYONE that pays taxes.
Labor unions fucked themselves.
Their decades long run of thievery, fraud, criminal acts and extortion are over.
I really enjoy seeing them get THEIR ass kicked now.
I have worked for 40 years full time, sometimes with 3 jobs in my mid 20s.
NO rich person has ever fucked me and I doubt you could name anyone that ever was.

And your wages would have been shit for those forty years if there had been no Unions.

 

[KnobbyWalsh]

Liberal and conservative views are dwindling for many reasons. Basically, because they're not practical anymore when you have extremists in government and when you have those pitiful, squeaky "pundents" on TV and radio and in the paper turning people off to both on a daily basis. We need a new paradigm politically.

 

[gwennie]

I believe it is. Our country seems to be veering to the left. Why?

I find it very hard to believe it's based on free shit. Not enough Americans are on the public dole to make up for the shift. The left has been successful with their message communication. Be it good or bad we are behind the curve.

I remember getting out of prison with 100 dollars (parole money) and thinking I couldn't wait to get a job and start my life. From being TOTALLY suppoeted by the tax payer to being TOTALLY independent and successful.No other feeling matches being self reliant and knowing I have options I can persue because of conservative values.

Almost makes me think that people have been coddled for so long they have no concept of their own potential.

The country isn't veering to the left......it only seems that way because the media has been bought and paid for by the uber rich liberals. There are at least 50% of the American public that receives some sort of govt assistance....SS, Medicaid, Medicare, disability, food stamps, utility assistance, housing assistance, unemployment, etc.. There are about 25% who truly need that assistance, while the other 25% don't need it at all but prefer to live off the govt and force everyone else to pay them to do so. The former 25% "deserve" it and should be provided for; the latter 25% are a bunch of freeloaders who do nothing but take advantage of the system and their sense of entitlement is larger than the Titanic. So, yes, there are enough people on some form of public assistance to make up for the shift. Fact is that nobody will vote against their own best interest, even if their own best interest is fraudulent. It's pathetic, really. And if you really think that people have been coddled for so long that they have no real idea of their own potential....I agree with you, by the way.....then why continue to support obama's agenda???? he is all about paying off cronies and keeping people dependent on the system because it guarantees votes for him. All it really does is convince people how incapable they are of making it on their own as well as reinforce the notion that someone else is to blame for their predicament......many people take no responsibility as long as they can "legitimately" blame someone else and then get compensated for it. And let's not forget all the corporate welfare that goes on, not to mention the numerous now defunct "green energy" projects that obama insisted on funding with taxpayer dollars because it's cutting edge. It's all a load of crap. Yet the dems want to complain endlessly of pubs who fight for "tax cuts for the wealthy".....while conveniently "forgetting" that obama constantly provides tax breaks or exempts wealthy liberals (be the Hollywood types or bankers or whatever) from the taxes that he claims are "their fair share". Basically, libs and pubs are full of shit......all the way up to their eyebrows.

You are right on when it comes to the left being very good at keeping on message.....but that would be nearly impossible without a very compliant media. Bush was very consistent in his message, but the liberal media hated him so much that they took every single opportunity to lash out at him, even if they had to embellish or make shit up. obama and his minions have been very good at keeping the dems in line, for the most part. And that is key to keeping public support.....all this public idiotic in-fighting that's going with the pubs is doing nothing but screwing themselves. What people forget, however, is that the dems went through the very same thing not too long ago when they were despondent that the pubs had beaten them badly. For the dems to think that the pubs are on the verge of extinction or have lost favor with the general public is beyond ridiculousness......not ever gonna happen. You can count on the pubs getting their act together at some point....it WILL happen...and when that does happen, the dems will be once again in the back of the line. Like it or not, all the pubs and dems do is trade who's at the front of the train and who's at the back of the train.

 

[Avatar4321]

Or a small minority is so far out on the right fringe that center-right appears left to them.

Why do you guys think balancing our budget and paying our debts is a radical concept? Or personal responsibility? Why do you think working for what we want is radical? Or actually having the Federal Government limited by the Constitution?

What is radical about any of this?

All of which is your imagination at work.

That response doesn't make any sense. But then I am guessing you don't have a real response.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Why do you guys think balancing our budget and paying our debts is a radical concept? Or personal responsibility? Why do you think working for what we want is radical? Or actually having the Federal Government limited by the Constitution?

What is radical about any of this?

All of which is your imagination at work.

That response doesn't make any sense. But then I am guessing you don't have a real response.

Really?

That list of things that "you guys" think is radical is not reality. It is your imagination at work. Get it now, genius?

 

[Faun]

The message of the left is no values and no integrity. Values are independent of any particular ruler or party. The Obamunist left views loyalty to Obama first, and the party second, to be paramount. If people had values or integrity, then violations of those values would conflict with their support and worship of Obama. Clearly that can't be allowed.

As an example, under Bush the left shreaked that holding an enemy combatant in gitmo was treason and Bush should hung for it. But with Obama, the SAME people defend murdering American citizens with drones, sans warrant, indictment, presentment to grand jury, or any hint of due process.

To anyone with integrity, the conflict between these positions would be impossible. But the left has no integrity at all. The only thing that matters is that Bush was hated by the party, so anything he did was to be attacked. Since Obama is god, everything he does is perfect, in the site of the left. It doesn't matter that the identical acts they attacked Bush on, they praise Obama for, because these people have no principles, no values, and no integrity.

This is a prime example of why Conservative values are dying. Seems for some time now, Conservative values revolve mostly around bashing Liberals. That's not a virtue. It's a way of filling a void where values once were.

 

[Borillar]

Well, since the main thing conservatives value is money and the value of the dollar is diminishing - there goes conservative values.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Are conservative values dying? No. But the GOP no longer represent conservative values. They represent the interests of the uber wealthy and ideological extremists, many of whom are members of one lunatic fringe group or another.

Like OWS or global warming nuts? At least the rich offer something to our nation unlike the squatters on your side.

In the good old days when people got rich by producing something, that was true. But today, the way to get rich isn't making a better mousetrap, it's making a killing on Wall Street. For my money, the old way of getting rich was better for society than today's way of getting rich.

Where do you think all that money on wallstreet goes? Under someones mattress?

Even with a prison education I can figure out that it cycles back into the economy and workers through new investments.