Are conservative values dying? If so, why?

[editec]

I believe it is. Our country seems to be veering to the left. Why?

I find it very hard to believe it's based on free shit. Not enough Americans are on the public dole to make up for the shift. The left has been successful with their message communication. Be it good or bad we are behind the curve.

I remember getting out of prison with 100 dollars (parole money) and thinking I couldn't wait to get a job and start my life. From being TOTALLY suppoeted by the tax payer to being TOTALLY independent and successful.No other feeling matches being self reliant and knowing I have options I can persue because of conservative values.

Almost makes me think that people have been coddled for so long they have no concept of their own potential.

Given the fact that you got out of jail and had a chance to make it anyway?

You've got some liberals to thank for that, dude.

Conservatives mostly want to lock people up and throw away the key.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Like OWS or global warming nuts? At least the rich offer something to our nation unlike the squatters on your side.

In the good old days when people got rich by producing something, that was true. But today, the way to get rich isn't making a better mousetrap, it's making a killing on Wall Street. For my money, the old way of getting rich was better for society than today's way of getting rich.

Where do you think all that money on wallstreet goes? Under someones mattress?

Even with a prison education I can figure out that it cycles back into the economy and workers through new investments.

Not necessarily. Not presently.

 

[candycorn]

The Conservative movement is dying because it has been hijacked by low voltage brains.

It used to be a Conservative was the smartest person in the room. Reading Bill Buckley each week was like breathing pure oxygen.

Today, reading an allegedly "conservative" media outlet is like sucking on a tailpipe. Cerebral suicide.

I'm sick of the parroting retards unquestioningly regurgitating the bullshit shoveled into their slack-jawed mouths. The only "values" in the "conservative" movement these days are, "Whatever makes the other guys look or sound bad, regardless of whether it is true."

Chairman Bill is spinning in his grave.

Critical thinking and truth used to be the priority. No longer. Smearing the other guy takes precedence.

Nothing is EVER put on the table. Just look at the topics started here by the right wingers. All attacks. Nothing constructive is ever offered. Just hack attacks.

So when you speak of "values", um...WHAT values? I see nothing but hypocritical lip service and lies. Here are today's "Conservative" values: "We're great, you suck!"

Now if you will excuse me, I need to go read some Breitbart and find out how many rounds of golf Obama has played to date.

Very Well Put....

To be honest, there isn't that much on the liberal side of the argument that is easily accessible either by style or circulation either.

It became this way when Limbaugh made idiotic attacks popular. Once there was an audience for these child-like arguments, more broadcasters decided to try to cash in so the tide of arguments that would have no traction in an earlier day rose and literally overtook the more reasoned approaches.

 

[candycorn]

I believe it is. Our country seems to be veering to the left. Why?

I find it very hard to believe it's based on free shit. Not enough Americans are on the public dole to make up for the shift. The left has been successful with their message communication. Be it good or bad we are behind the curve.

I remember getting out of prison with 100 dollars (parole money) and thinking I couldn't wait to get a job and start my life. From being TOTALLY suppoeted by the tax payer to being TOTALLY independent and successful.No other feeling matches being self reliant and knowing I have options I can persue because of conservative values.

Almost makes me think that people have been coddled for so long they have no concept of their own potential.

Given the fact that you got out of jail and had a chance to make it anyway?

You've got some liberals to thank for that, dude.

Conservatives mostly want to lock people up and throw away the key.

I know, right?

All of us are warmed by the fires started by others whether we admit it or not. Conservatism almost forces you to live a lie and after a while, people get tired of of ignoring self-evident truths when they live in an enlightened society.

 

[JoeB131]

I believe it is. Our country seems to be veering to the left. Why?

I find it very hard to believe it's based on free shit. Not enough Americans are on the public dole to make up for the shift. The left has been successful with their message communication. Be it good or bad we are behind the curve.

I remember getting out of prison with 100 dollars (parole money) and thinking I couldn't wait to get a job and start my life. From being TOTALLY suppoeted by the tax payer to being TOTALLY independent and successful.No other feeling matches being self reliant and knowing I have options I can persue because of conservative values.

Almost makes me think that people have been coddled for so long they have no concept of their own potential.

I remember getting out of the Army and not being able to wait to work for the private sector.

21 years and a half dozen slimy bosses later, I honestly wish I made a career out of the Army.

It has very little to do with the "Free Shit" as you say. As I've pointed out in Joe's theorum, the goal of the Plutocrats is to get fewer of us to work harder for less money. And they step up the pace during recessions.

The problem is, people don't obediently go off and starve to death when Mitt Romney downsizes them so he can buy another Dressage Horsie. They go to the government for help.

The problem with your theory is that it gets the order reversed. What started it was the wealthy making war on the middle class, not the government picking up the slack.

 

[JoeB131]

I believe it is. Our country seems to be veering to the left. Why?

Or a small minority is so far out on the right fringe that center-right appears left to them.

Why do you guys think balancing our budget and paying our debts is a radical concept? Or personal responsibility? Why do you think working for what we want is radical? Or actually having the Federal Government limited by the Constitution?

What is radical about any of this?

Because you guys aren't about balancing our budget or paying our debts...

We were doing that under Bill Clinton. The rich were paying their fair share and we were posting SURPLUSES! And then Bush decided that, sheeeeet, man, the working class wages were going up and rich people didn't have enough money, we got totally put a stop to that.

Some tax cuts and a couple wars on a credit card, he totally fixed that shit.

Same thing for working for what we want. Frankly, kind of hard to do that when you have employers "right sizing" and "downsizing" and "Optimizing" companies to employ as few people for as little money as possible. I know a lot of people who work two jobs and have a hard time making ends meet.

So let's be honest for what you are really for. You are for the wealthy being able to abuse the rest of us, without interference from the government because the founding slave-rapists didn't think that might be a problem 200 years later.

 

[Nosmo King]

Like OWS or global warming nuts? At least the rich offer something to our nation unlike the squatters on your side.

In the good old days when people got rich by producing something, that was true. But today, the way to get rich isn't making a better mousetrap, it's making a killing on Wall Street. For my money, the old way of getting rich was better for society than today's way of getting rich.

Where do you think all that money on wallstreet goes? Under someones mattress?

Even with a prison education I can figure out that it cycles back into the economy and workers through new investments.

Cycles back?!? How much does a hedge fund manager make in a year? How much does a CEO make in a year? And what percentage of the company receipts goes to those guys as opposed to what goes to the folks who ACTUALLY PRODUCE THE GOODS AND SERVICES?

Under the mattress is a good guess, and just as practical.

 

[candycorn]

Or a small minority is so far out on the right fringe that center-right appears left to them.

Why do you guys think balancing our budget and paying our debts is a radical concept? Or personal responsibility? Why do you think working for what we want is radical? Or actually having the Federal Government limited by the Constitution?

What is radical about any of this?

Because you guys aren't about balancing our budget or paying our debts...

We were doing that under Bill Clinton. The rich were paying their fair share and we were posting SURPLUSES! And then Bush decided that, sheeeeet, man, the working class wages were going up and rich people didn't have enough money, we got totally put a stop to that.

Some tax cuts and a couple wars on a credit card, he totally fixed that shit.

Same thing for working for what we want. Frankly, kind of hard to do that when you have employers "right sizing" and "downsizing" and "Optimizing" companies to employ as few people for as little money as possible. I know a lot of people who work two jobs and have a hard time making ends meet.

So let's be honest for what you are really for. You are for the wealthy being able to abuse the rest of us, without interference from the government because the founding slave-rapists didn't think that might be a problem 200 years later.

As for personal responsibility...that makes me laugh. Look at the 2012 GOP candidate for President...when have any of you blamed Romney for Romney's defeat? I'm sure somewhere you've done this but more often than not, it's been the media's fault or Obama's "gifts" to his constituents (as if no President in history had done that), or anything other than Romney? Where is Scooter Libby's jail term if you're talking about personal responsibility? Oh yeah...that was not going to happen even though a Bush appointed judge sentenced Mr. Libby to prison.

I don't agree that the middle class is being "abused" as you say Joe. But the GOP definitely has chosen sides and they haven't gone to bat for the little guy in the equation for quite some time. It's not class warfare; it's mathematics.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Simple then. Rephrase the statements where both people can agree what is right.
In the meantime, whatever is wrong will be corrected in comparison. It's usually mutual.

Not possible.

There is a fundamental gap. The left and right cannot agree, because we have vastly different goals. The right believes that the form of government and constitution bequeathed by our founding fathers, coupled with the traditional market economy, where individuals are free to trade the fruits of their mind and labor for the fruits of another, with the only restriction that the trade be free of fraud or coercion.

The left seeks to drastically change both society and government to ensure that all receive certain benefits, such as food, housing, and health care services. Government manages the resources and distributes them in a manner that is considered fair. Naturally, the foundation of individual liberty cannot work, so a more authoritarian system must be adopted where individuals surrender their rights for the good of the larger society.

These are two, fundamentally different approaches. One side will win, and one side will lose. The left currently has a lot of popular support and is moving to implement the agenda of discarding the constitution and republican government. The right is edging toward using any means to retain constitutional governance.

There is no middle ground.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Those are individual attacks on, well, stupid people.

You prove my point.

Enemies of the party are slandered and libeled incessantly by the party press, with mindless sycophants like you repeating the mantra.

You implied that all liberals think all conservatives are stupid. Your links don't support that.

I stated directly that leftists label all conservatives as stupid, and the demagogues of the press launch attacks on them. This is a fact.

 

[Nosmo King]

Is every citizen of the United States entitled some things simply by being citizens of the United States? Not only life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, but clean potable water, an education, decent safe and sanitary housing, a fair wage for fair work?

These things are commensurate with the amassing of wealth. These things are justice pure and simple.

 

[zeke]

Simple then. Rephrase the statements where both people can agree what is right.
In the meantime, whatever is wrong will be corrected in comparison. It's usually mutual.

Not possible.

There is a fundamental gap. The left and right cannot agree, because we have vastly different goals. The right believes that the form of government and constitution bequeathed by our founding fathers, coupled with the traditional market economy, where individuals are free to trade the fruits of their mind and labor for the fruits of another, with the only restriction that the trade be free of fraud or coercion.

The left seeks to drastically change both society and government to ensure that all receive certain benefits, such as food, housing, and health care services. Government manages the resources and distributes them in a manner that is considered fair. Naturally, the foundation of individual liberty cannot work, so a more authoritarian system must be adopted where individuals surrender their rights for the good of the larger society.

These are two, fundamentally different approaches. One side will win, and one side will lose. The left currently has a lot of popular support and is moving to implement the agenda of discarding the constitution and republican government. The right is edging toward using any means to retain constitutional governance. There is no middle ground.

Using any means eh? The ole threaten violence thingy. Fuk, get on with it and quit running your mouths. You want war in the streets? Fuking get it started or stfu. Good god people like you are stupid.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Or a small minority is so far out on the right fringe that center-right appears left to them.

That minority, supporting the constitution of the old Republic, may be a lot bigger than you imagine, nutsack.

 

[zeke]

Those are individual attacks on, well, stupid people.

You prove my point.

Enemies of the party are slandered and libeled incessantly by the party press, with mindless sycophants like you repeating the mantra.

You implied that all liberals think all conservatives are stupid. Your links don't support that.

I stated directly that leftists label all conservatives as stupid, and the demagogues of the press launch attacks on them. This is a fact.[/QUOTE]



Here is a personal fact just for you. The most stupid people I know personally, all label themselves as ''conservatives". Don't know why it works like that, but it does. I try and avoid them if I can. I get exposed to enough stupid people on here.

 

[Uncensored2008]

This board should be a good hint...

This board demonstrates that conservatives are well read, well educated, articulate, with solid logic. Where the left is like you.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Not necessarily. Not presently.

Are you really this stupid?

The vision of every leftist as to how the economy works...

 

[Katzndogz]

Yes conservative values are dying in this country. But those values never quite go out. The United States is becoming a nation of degenerate sadistic people. That is part of the division as there will always be those who won't become degenerate and object to being the objects of sadism.

 

[editec]

I believe it is. Our country seems to be veering to the left. Why?

I find it very hard to believe it's based on free shit. Not enough Americans are on the public dole to make up for the shift. The left has been successful with their message communication. Be it good or bad we are behind the curve.

I remember getting out of prison with 100 dollars (parole money) and thinking I couldn't wait to get a job and start my life. From being TOTALLY suppoeted by the tax payer to being TOTALLY independent and successful.No other feeling matches being self reliant and knowing I have options I can persue because of conservative values.

Almost makes me think that people have been coddled for so long they have no concept of their own potential.

I remember getting out of the Army and not being able to wait to work for the private sector.

21 years and a half dozen slimy bosses later, I honestly wish I made a career out of the Army.

I SO get that, as I often feel much the same way regarding the NAV. Hell I'd have three government finaced PHds by now if I'd stayed in, and I'd probably be retired now at a LCDR rank or so.

Perhaps if the NAV hadn't thrown my fate into the USMC I'd have felt differently way back in 74 when I left.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Using any means eh? The ole threaten violence thingy. Fuk, get on with it and quit running your mouths. You want war in the streets? Fuking get it started or stfu. Good god people like you are stupid.

And what is it that you leftists are doing? Are you not using force to push your agenda?

I don't want war in the streets, I dread it. But no one can deny that the course we are on today leads nowhere else. And it is Obama and the radical left leading us there. You cram tort after tort down our throats, you piss on the Constitution, then smugly declare "whatcha gunna do about it?"

Everything Obama and the radical left does, is calculated to foment civil war.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Here is a personal fact just for you. The most stupid people I know personally, all label themselves as ''conservatives". Don't know why it works like that, but it does. I try and avoid them if I can. I get exposed to enough stupid people on here.

Don't you define "stupid" as clinging to the Constitution and notions of individual liberty? Isn't the basic position of the left that those who fail to embrace Marx, simply lack the intellect to grasp the advantage of collectivist values?

Have you ever considered the possiblity, Zeke, that it is not they who are stupid?