Are conservative values dying? If so, why?

[bucs90]

This is the "message" part I was talking about.

I don't think or feel that way. The tax cuts were across the board cuts yet they are SUCCESSFULLY labeled cuts for the rich.

And I'd like this discussion to be broad rather than degrade to an argument over one talking point.

Well, that's part of the problem. Just WHAT are you talking about when you refer to "conservative values?" Because most of us share "values." The political parties simply provide different ways of achieving them.

Is freedom a value? If so, why do conservatives support massive prison sentences for nearly any crime? That's completely anti-freedom.

Is liberty a value? If so, why do conservatives oppose individuality and liberal approaches to birth control and abortion? That makes no sense.

Is fiscal conservativism a value? If so, why do you guys always want to spend to great excess on "national defense?" That's crazy.

I just don't buy into this whole "conservative values" thing because I have no idea what you mean. You guys certainly don't practice it except when it suits you.

You might be better off to talk about REAL policies for a change, instead of hiding behind this "values" crapola.

For the THIRD time now. Im not talking about politics in general. Im talking about the shift in our population from right leaning (conservative) to left leaning (progressive)

You know, less about individual accountabiliry and more about collectivism.

Is it because fewer and fewer Americans put in a real hard days work now as opposed to generations past? Even in prison tough manual labor was part of my daily routine. So many people now just sit behind a computer screen or register or phone and after 30 or 40 years think someone else owes them something for all their "hard work"

What is in part causing it is the definition of individual accountability. The newer generations see their duty to the collective society as BEING an issue of personal accountability. They are far more accepting of having a portion of what they earn go to that collective good. They see the collective effort towards all as one of their personal responsibilities. So rather than bitch about a 2% tax increase, they accept it as the norm for the effort, and carry on.

They read and socialize on topics like the environment, feeding the hungry, culture, etc, etc. And that stuff means more to the new generation, as a whole, than a brand new BMW and 5 bedroom house in a gated community. They believe in personal accountability, but, their definition of that is different than yours. They believe they has just as much of a responsibility to contribute to the collective effort as they do to their own desires.

And when the right wing is portrayed as the old, bitter white party, and all you hear is bitching and whining about things that come across as arrogant and mean spirited, it pushes people away.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

So they gladly offer more in taxes to society then as they mail off the check they begin bitching that their take home pay is too low?

 

[DiamondDave]

Well, that's part of the problem. Just WHAT are you talking about when you refer to "conservative values?" Because most of us share "values." The political parties simply provide different ways of achieving them.

Is freedom a value? If so, why do conservatives support massive prison sentences for nearly any crime? That's completely anti-freedom.

Is liberty a value? If so, why do conservatives oppose individuality and liberal approaches to birth control and abortion? That makes no sense.

Is fiscal conservativism a value? If so, why do you guys always want to spend to great excess on "national defense?" That's crazy.

I just don't buy into this whole "conservative values" thing because I have no idea what you mean. You guys certainly don't practice it except when it suits you.

You might be better off to talk about REAL policies for a change, instead of hiding behind this "values" crapola.

For the THIRD time now. Im not talking about politics in general. Im talking about the shift in our population from right leaning (conservative) to left leaning (progressive)

You know, less about individual accountabiliry and more about collectivism.

Is it because fewer and fewer Americans put in a real hard days work now as opposed to generations past? Even in prison tough manual labor was part of my daily routine. So many people now just sit behind a computer screen or register or phone and after 30 or 40 years think someone else owes them something for all their "hard work"

What is in part causing it is the definition of individual accountability. The newer generations see their duty to the collective society as BEING an issue of personal accountability. They are far more accepting of having a portion of what they earn go to that collective good. They see the collective effort towards all as one of their personal responsibilities. So rather than bitch about a 2% tax increase, they accept it as the norm for the effort, and carry on.

They read and socialize on topics like the environment, feeding the hungry, culture, etc, etc. And that stuff means more to the new generation, as a whole, than a brand new BMW and 5 bedroom house in a gated community. They believe in personal accountability, but, their definition of that is different than yours. They believe they has just as much of a responsibility to contribute to the collective effort as they do to their own desires.

And when the right wing is portrayed as the old, bitter white party, and all you hear is bitching and whining about things that come across as arrogant and mean spirited, it pushes people away.

Hence how the borg collective came about

Notice how the 2% increase or whatever is not on everyone... only on the group that they can punish while the DEMs coddle the rest for their votes...

You can take your forced communal crap and shove it up your ass

 

[Katzndogz]

Freedom, honesty, integrity and individual responsiblity will still exist. Just not in the United States. Or, the best of all solutions, in whatever part of what made this a great country still exists.

 

[bucs90]

So they gladly offer more in taxes to society then as they mail off the check they begin bitching that their take home pay is too low?

EVERYONE thinks their pay isn't enough. That is not news.

The new generation, however, doesn't think the safety net is a bad thing. They see the functions of government, and believe it is worthwhile. And yeah, they wish their boss paid them more, like everyone does.

 

[candycorn]

If you're born in the USA, you were born on 2nd base to use a baseball metaphor. You were born well ahead of others being born in Chile, Botswana, etc...

What I see as the difference between most Conservatives and many liberals is...

that Conservatives grow up thinking they either hit a double or were somehow robbed of a triple by a blown call by the umpire.

Liberals on the other hand recognize that they were more blessed than others but don't think anyone should get to third base until we're all ready to move at one time in some sort of mass exodus. Many are also unaware of whether to run toward third or first.

 

[regent]

Did anyone answer the most obvious, what are conservative values? Went thru the posts quickly but may have missed it. What are conservative values?

 

[DiamondDave]

If you're born in the USA, you were born on 2nd base to use a baseball metaphor. You were born well ahead of others being born in Chile, Botswana, etc...

What I see as the difference between most Conservatives and many liberals is...

that Conservatives grow up thinking they either hit a double or were somehow robbed of a triple by a blown call by the umpire.

Liberals on the other hand recognize that they were more blessed than others but don't think anyone should get to third base until we're all ready to move at one time in some sort of mass exodus. Many are also unaware of whether to run toward third or first.

And if you think I am not living and working to give MY OFFSPRING an advantage, you are sadly mistaken.. and I will fight if you think you are entitled to the advantages I am working for to provide to my kids

Everyone has their FREEDOMS ensured... not what they get, how they perform, how they get placed because of what they do, etc...

 

[G.T.]

You know, you have accused me of regurgitating this type of stuff over and over. Let me make this simple...

I HAVE NEVER WENT TO ANY OF THOSE WEBSITES FOR ANY REASON. NEVER.
I DONT WATCH HANNITY. I DONT LISTEN TO BECK. I DONT READ ANN COULTERS BOOKS.
I DONT DO ANY OF THE SHIT YOU JUST SPEWED.

I often start honest discussions about subjects that almost immediately get hijacked by people JUST LIKE YOU. All I ever see you do is insult others about being this or that then claim to be above such nonsense. Just like you just did.

Why you so defensive?

There is no shame in listening to conservatives on TV & radio...

It's what you do with that info. that's important.

You really should listen to this guy in morning or in evenings....he's entertaining and damn intelligent.
Michael Berry - Michael Berry

It's personal between myself and GT. I get sick of his high minded attitude he ALWAYS throws at me.

And I didn't say that stuff was necessarily bad. I just don't bother with it or let it consume my time.

Just like the left is all over guns right now and his comments to me are stop drinking the NRA piss. Other than that idiot Pierres news conference after sandy (which was pathetic) I have never read nor watched anything related to the NRA. I simply dont care what they have to say.

GT?I havent even made a post in this thread until this one.

 

[Nosmo King]

Using any means eh? The ole threaten violence thingy. Fuk, get on with it and quit running your mouths. You want war in the streets? Fuking get it started or stfu. Good god people like you are stupid.

And what is it that you leftists are doing? Are you not using force to push your agenda?

I don't want war in the streets, I dread it. But no one can deny that the course we are on today leads nowhere else. And it is Obama and the radical left leading us there. You cram tort after tort down our throats, you piss on the Constitution, then smugly declare "whatcha gunna do about it?"

Everything Obama and the radical left does, is calculated to foment civil war.

This statement is silly at best, treasonous at worst, and wholly irresponsible.

You write as if there is tyranny, actual tyranny at work here. Is that your position, or are you just exercising that peculiar far right addiction to hyperbole?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Why you so defensive?

There is no shame in listening to conservatives on TV & radio...

It's what you do with that info. that's important.

You really should listen to this guy in morning or in evenings....he's entertaining and damn intelligent.
Michael Berry - Michael Berry

It's personal between myself and GT. I get sick of his high minded attitude he ALWAYS throws at me.

And I didn't say that stuff was necessarily bad. I just don't bother with it or let it consume my time.

Just like the left is all over guns right now and his comments to me are stop drinking the NRA piss. Other than that idiot Pierres news conference after sandy (which was pathetic) I have never read nor watched anything related to the NRA. I simply dont care what they have to say.

GT?I havent even made a post in this thread until this one.

Other guy

 

[Some Guy]

Almost makes me think that people have been coddled for so long they have no concept of their own potential.

There ya go. Seems like a lot of those of 40-60 generation (thereabouts) raised their children in a bubble, doing too much for them, protecting them too much and just creating an aura of dependency and apathy that remains throughout adulthood. Lucky for me, one who was raised by that 40-60 crowd, i had parents who taught me the value of work, personal responsibility and achievement.

 

[G.T.]

It's personal between myself and GT. I get sick of his high minded attitude he ALWAYS throws at me.

And I didn't say that stuff was necessarily bad. I just don't bother with it or let it consume my time.

Just like the left is all over guns right now and his comments to me are stop drinking the NRA piss. Other than that idiot Pierres news conference after sandy (which was pathetic) I have never read nor watched anything related to the NRA. I simply dont care what they have to say.

GT?I havent even made a post in this thread until this one.

Other guy

There's only on GT good sir and I got love for the gramps.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Freedom, honesty, integrity and individual responsiblity will still exist. Just not in the United States. Or, the best of all solutions, in whatever part of what made this a great country still exists.

This may be, but humanity is headed for another "dark ages."

I've lost hope that the United States can be salvaged. We are in our death throws, just as Rome once was. It will be violent and bloody, unlikely that any who support the Constitution will survive. Then this experiment in liberty will be gone.

I believe, sadly, that before another experience in liberty arises, we must go through a century or two of brutality and desperation, that again teaches men the value of liberty. This nation has forgotten, and as with Rome before us, Panem Et Circum rules the populace.

 

[Freemason9]

Did anyone answer the most obvious, what are conservative values? Went thru the posts quickly but may have missed it. What are conservative values?

Apparently, it remains a mystery.

 

[Uncensored2008]

This statement is silly at best, treasonous at worst, and wholly irresponsible.

So, opposing the goals of Obama is no longer "racism," but "treason?"

Knock me over with a feather.

This too highlights the fact that you of the left are determined to spark civil war.

You write as if there is tyranny, actual tyranny at work here.

That's because tyranny, actual tyranny, IS at work here.

You of the left seek to end civil liberties and replace them with a utopian vision of group rights. This is tyrannical. Obama has altered the social contract from a government of laws, to a government of men - with himself as emperor.

You complain that since tyranny is not absolute in this nation, we must ignore it. But we will not. Our move from a free republic to a police state has been startlingly rapid. In less than 20 years, the concept of "papers please" has gone from dire warning, to government policy. Fundamental liberty is discarded like a rotting fish left in the sun. Freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom to assemble, freedom to defend our lives and property, all stripped without regard.

The prior administration made a mockery of Habeas Corpus, with loud howls by our current ruler and his minions. Yet the moment he takes power, not only does he increase the abuse, but starts the extrajudicial slaughter of United States Citizens without so much as a hint of due process.

This is tyranny, actual tyranny.

Is that your position, or are you just exercising that peculiar far right addiction to hyperbole?

Hyperbole is exclusive to the right?

 

[zeke]

Freedom, honesty, integrity and individual responsiblity will still exist. Just not in the United States. Or, the best of all solutions, in whatever part of what made this a great country still exists.

This may be, but humanity is headed for another "dark ages."

I've lost hope that the United States can be salvaged. We are in our death throws, just as Rome once was. It will be violent and bloody, unlikely that any who support the Constitution will survive. Then this experiment in liberty will be gone.

I believe, sadly, that before another experience in liberty arises, we must go through a century or two of brutality and desperation, that again teaches men the value of liberty. This nation has forgotten, and as with Rome before us, Panem Et Circum rules the populace.

WOW Dude. Sucks to be you eh?

And speaking of salvage. Did you know that we are the number one exporter of salvaged goods. Things like salvage metal, paper and electronics are one of our biggest exports and have made many people, including myself, good money. Junk man is the occupation title.
Copper, $2.90 lb. Steel $190./ton.

What we got here is a failure for many to understand that us working kinds of folks that believe in the American Dream and Democracy, have been watching a strange kinda war going on for 25 years. The war is not between people like me and you (or shouldn't be). It is being fought between real Capitalists against what is left of our not bought and paid for Democracy.

Democracy is getting it's ass kicked. Plutocrats like the Jamie Diamonds of the world are getting tens of millions of dollars and the other 98% of us are getting fuked. But it ain't hopeless.

 

[candycorn]

If you're born in the USA, you were born on 2nd base to use a baseball metaphor. You were born well ahead of others being born in Chile, Botswana, etc...

What I see as the difference between most Conservatives and many liberals is...

that Conservatives grow up thinking they either hit a double or were somehow robbed of a triple by a blown call by the umpire.

Liberals on the other hand recognize that they were more blessed than others but don't think anyone should get to third base until we're all ready to move at one time in some sort of mass exodus. Many are also unaware of whether to run toward third or first.

And if you think I am not living and working to give MY OFFSPRING an advantage, you are sadly mistaken.. and I will fight if you think you are entitled to the advantages I am working for to provide to my kids

Everyone has their FREEDOMS ensured... not what they get, how they perform, how they get placed because of what they do, etc...

Yes and hopefully your kids will be born between 2nd and 3rd or maybe on 3rd base or, like Mitt Romney was, 60 feet down the thrid base line. Hopefully your kids will know that they are there because of your sacrifices and not because it was their birthright and that some are still "stuck" on 2nd base; that they'll never characterize themselves as being poor because they had to "sell stock to survive".

And hopefully you'll tell them that they're blessed because we do live in a nation of laws that prevents inalienable rights from being taken away from you.

 

[candycorn]

Did anyone answer the most obvious, what are conservative values? Went thru the posts quickly but may have missed it. What are conservative values?

Apparently, it remains a mystery.

That is sad too because it would likely be the most hypocritical list ever fielded.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Did anyone answer the most obvious, what are conservative values? Went thru the posts quickly but may have missed it. What are conservative values?

Apparently, it remains a mystery.

That is sad too because it would likely be the most hypocritical list ever fielded.

bullshit....lefties are the hypocrits...they proclaim free speech and religious freedom and Constitutional rights while undermining same...

to name a few conservative values...

protect our Constitution
protect free speech and religion and property
protection of individual rights
protection of innocent Life
preservation of traditional marriage and values for our children
fiscal sanity
free market