Are You Watching?

[Terry]

I feel like I'm watching an infomercial that I've seen before.

You have a stomach made of iron also. Heck when I hear obama I have to hit mute or change the channel.

 

[WillowTree]

MSNBC declares this to be "The first peaceful townhall in days" that's easy when you are playing to your base innit? Reach around democwats and pat yerselves on the arse! ya done good.

 

[Terry]

LOL, Willow, love how you spell it out.

 

[WillowTree]

McCaskill Townhall on Live Now



3 versions of the bill in the house, none voted on yet. now she speaks of a Senate bill, but I thought Specter said there was no Senate bill yet. Puzzled!

 

[Terry]

McCaskill Townhall on Live Now



3 versions of the bill in the house, none voted on yet. now she speaks of a Senate bill, but I thought Specter said there was no Senate bill yet. Puzzled!

Yeah I love how she started with "I've read the Senate Bill" and then proceeded to tell everyone "There is no Senate Bill".

 

[Zoom-boing]

I feel like I'm watching an infomercial that I've seen before.

You have a stomach made of iron also. Heck when I hear obama I have to hit mute or change the channel.

I gave up. Between the kids coming in and interrupting and Barry going on and on and on with his answers . . .

 

[chanel]

I caught that too. WTF? Five versions? Now they can really confuse people and spin things. "There's no death panel in that bill" Of course that Depends on how you define "that" or "is". ...

 

[Bfgrn]

It's nice to see that everyday american's out there are seeing things like most of us do. They are alive and awake as that 35 year old woman stated. To quote Howard Dean....YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAAAAW

That just proves you are not the only pea brain in America...the 35 year old was an under the bed pea brain...

They should get all those old fart rednecks to sign a document saying they refuse government involvement in their health care...then send the pea brains a notice that their Medicare has been forfeited...

You're such a stupid partisan dickwad.

Let's THINK about it PEA brain...right wing morons are so over the top and so out of bounds that being called a pea brain is giving you TOO much credit, it's a compliment actually...

In reality what the right wing lunatic fringe, also known as today's remaining Republicans, are saying is President Obama and the Democrats are WORSE than al Qaeda and less honest...

The notion that the President of the United States and the Democrats would put grandma to death is absolute pea brainism...

If ANY political ideology would even consider placing more importance on saving money over human life it is the RIGHT...and I wouldn't accuse them of being THAT evil...

One minute they're tax and spend Democrats and now they would kill Grandma for a f_cking penny... hey, it's gotta be PROJECTION...you'd have to imagine doing it to accuse someone else of doing it...(takes one to know one)

It's pea brains gone WILD!!!

 

[Zoom-boing]

Let's THINK about it PEA brain...right wing morons are so over the top and so out of bounds that being called a pea brain is giving you TOO much credit, it's a compliment actually...

In reality what the right wing lunatic fringe, also known as today's remaining Republicans, are saying is President Obama and the Democrats are WORSE than al Qaeda and less honest...

The notion that the President of the United States and the Democrats would put grandma to death is absolute pea brainism...

If ANY political ideology would even consider placing more importance on saving money over human life it is the RIGHT...and I wouldn't accuse them of being THAT evil...

One minute they're tax and spend Democrats and now they would kill Grandma for a f_cking penny... hey, it's gotta be PROJECTION...you'd have to imagine doing it to accuse someone else of doing it...(takes one to know one)

It's pea brains gone WILD!!!

Really? I don't think so.

As has been noted here and elsewhere, a public option will almost certainly evolve into a single-payer system -- and, indeed, that is what it's designed to do. Rationed care? A necessary symptom of the single-payer system. When a single payer is responsible for the health needs of everybody, there are bound to be some conflicts.

Just ask Ezekiel Emanuel. Ezekiel -- Chief of Staff Rham Emanuel's brother -- also works with the Obama administraiton, as a presidential health care advisor. He published an article in January, in a British Medical Journal called 'Lancet,' in which he examines, not only the possibility of rationed care, but how to make beaurocratic decisions on who should get limited treatments. (via RightSoup)

E. Emanuel is also, as of March, a member of the Federal Coordinating Council on Comparative Effectiveness Research -- tasked with determining a "Federal system for withdrawing care." He seems more than up to the task.

Writes Emanuel:
Quote:

“Such an approach accepts a two-tiered health system-some citizens will receive only basic services while others will receive both basic and some discretionary health services… Substantively, it suggests services that promote the continuation of the polity-those that ensure healthy future generations, ensure development of practical reasoning skills, and ensure full and active participation by citizens in public deliberations-are to be socially guaranteed as basic. Conversely, services provided to individuals who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens are not basic and should not be guaranteed. An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia.”

Scary enough. It gets worse.

Quote:

“When implemented, the complete lives system produces a priority curve on which individuals aged between roughly 15 and 40 years get the most substantial chance, whereas the youngest and oldest people get chances that are attenuated.” This may be justified by public opinion, since “broad consensus favours adolescents over very young infants, and young adults over very elderly people.”

Under the Ezekiel Emanuel plan, the infants and the elderly sit rather uncomfortably at the bottom of the food chain, while young adults take precedents over adolescents.

Rahm's brother and the Rationed Care Lifeboat | The Minority Report

You should do some reading up on the views the czars Emanuel, Holdren and Sunstein.

 

[pete]

I feel like I'm watching an infomercial that I've seen before.

You have a stomach made of iron also. Heck when I hear obama I have to hit mute or change the channel.

The channel get changed in my house!

 

[concept]

I feel like I'm watching an infomercial that I've seen before.

You have a stomach made of iron also. Heck when I hear obama I have to hit mute or change the channel.

Honestly, I can't listen to him.

He makes my skin crawl. It's how he over pronounces his esses. He prolongesssss each sssss sound at the end of his wordsssss.

Fuck....


That combined with the fact that is a lying sack of shit and voila!

 

[concept]

Democrats surer seem to like to kill people.

Unborn children? Bah Death.

Elderly? pfft. Kill them all.

 

[Bfgrn]

Let's THINK about it PEA brain...right wing morons are so over the top and so out of bounds that being called a pea brain is giving you TOO much credit, it's a compliment actually...

In reality what the right wing lunatic fringe, also known as today's remaining Republicans, are saying is President Obama and the Democrats are WORSE than al Qaeda and less honest...

The notion that the President of the United States and the Democrats would put grandma to death is absolute pea brainism...

If ANY political ideology would even consider placing more importance on saving money over human life it is the RIGHT...and I wouldn't accuse them of being THAT evil...

One minute they're tax and spend Democrats and now they would kill Grandma for a f_cking penny... hey, it's gotta be PROJECTION...you'd have to imagine doing it to accuse someone else of doing it...(takes one to know one)

It's pea brains gone WILD!!!

Really? I don't think so.

As has been noted here and elsewhere, a public option will almost certainly evolve into a single-payer system -- and, indeed, that is what it's designed to do. Rationed care? A necessary symptom of the single-payer system. When a single payer is responsible for the health needs of everybody, there are bound to be some conflicts.

Just ask Ezekiel Emanuel. Ezekiel -- Chief of Staff Rham Emanuel's brother -- also works with the Obama administraiton, as a presidential health care advisor. He published an article in January, in a British Medical Journal called 'Lancet,' in which he examines, not only the possibility of rationed care, but how to make beaurocratic decisions on who should get limited treatments. (via RightSoup)

E. Emanuel is also, as of March, a member of the Federal Coordinating Council on Comparative Effectiveness Research -- tasked with determining a "Federal system for withdrawing care." He seems more than up to the task.

Writes Emanuel:
Quote:

“Such an approach accepts a two-tiered health system-some citizens will receive only basic services while others will receive both basic and some discretionary health services… Substantively, it suggests services that promote the continuation of the polity-those that ensure healthy future generations, ensure development of practical reasoning skills, and ensure full and active participation by citizens in public deliberations-are to be socially guaranteed as basic. Conversely, services provided to individuals who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens are not basic and should not be guaranteed. An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia.”

Scary enough. It gets worse.

Quote:

“When implemented, the complete lives system produces a priority curve on which individuals aged between roughly 15 and 40 years get the most substantial chance, whereas the youngest and oldest people get chances that are attenuated.” This may be justified by public opinion, since “broad consensus favours adolescents over very young infants, and young adults over very elderly people.”

Under the Ezekiel Emanuel plan, the infants and the elderly sit rather uncomfortably at the bottom of the food chain, while young adults take precedents over adolescents.

Rahm's brother and the Rationed Care Lifeboat | The Minority Report

You should do some reading up on the views the czars Emanuel, Holdren and Sunstein.

So, what you're claiming is Dr. Emanuel's article is about how to ration care?

 

[pete]

Breitbart.tv » Naked Emperor News: ‘Obama’s Mother of All Political Lies and the Town Hall Mayhem It Caused’

 

[pete]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-bY92mcOdk]YouTube - SHOCK UNCOVERED: Obama IN HIS OWN WORDS saying His Health Care Plan will ELIMINATE private insurance[/ame]

 

[Zoom-boing]

So, what you're claiming is Dr. Emanuel's article is about how to ration care?

This is more detailed in what Emanuel's views are but to answer your question, there's no doubt in my mind that government-run health care will result in single-payer and rationing. And the beliefs of the people whispering in Obama's ear are a far cry from most peoples beliefs. Do some research on these guys.

Principles for allocation of scarce medical interventions : The Lancet

(If this doesn't give you the full text, join (it's free) to see it).

 

[Bfgrn]

So, what you're claiming is Dr. Emanuel's article is about how to ration care?

This is more detailed in what Emanuel's views are but to answer your question, there's no doubt in my mind that government-run health care will result in single-payer and rationing. And the beliefs of the people whispering in Obama's ear are a far cry from most peoples beliefs. Do some research on these guys.

Principles for allocation of scarce medical interventions : The Lancet

(If this doesn't give you the full text, join (it's free) to see it).

I feel really bad, I called you a pea brain, and as as it turns out I WAS WRONG...that is WAY too big of a brain to give you credit for...

Principles for allocation of scarce medical interventions : The Lancet

http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/PIIS0140673609601379.pdf

The article you offer as proof of Obama's death panel bullshit appears in The Lancet; a very prestigious medical journal that's been in publication since 1823. It is a trade magazine (Doctors read this magazine). The article appears under the heading of the Department of Ethics. It is authored by Govind Persad BS, Alan Wertheimer PhD, Ezekiel J Emanuel MD.

It is NOT about rationing health care!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is a study done by the authors that examines methods currently being used to ALLOCATE TRANSPLANT ORGANS which are scarce (that means there are not enough organs to perform transplants on everyone that needs one)...and vaccines that can be scarce if a pandemic occurs...

Summary
Allocation of very scarce medical interventions such as organs and vaccines is a persistent ethical challenge. We evaluate eight simple allocation principles that can be classified into four categories: treating people equally, favouring the worst-off, maximising total benefits, and promoting and rewarding social usefulness. No single principle is sufficient to incorporate all morally relevant considerations and therefore individual principles must be combined into multiprinciple allocation systems. We evaluate three systems: the United Network for Organ Sharing points systems, quality-adjusted life-years, and disability-adjusted life-years. We recommend an alternative system—the complete lives system—which prioritises younger people who have not yet lived a complete life, and also incorporates prognosis, save the most lives, lottery, and instrumental value principles.

--------------------------------------

So now we've established that you are a BB brain....care to prove we need to use a microscope to see your brain?

 

[Zoom-boing]

So, what you're claiming is Dr. Emanuel's article is about how to ration care?

This is more detailed in what Emanuel's views are but to answer your question, there's no doubt in my mind that government-run health care will result in single-payer and rationing. And the beliefs of the people whispering in Obama's ear are a far cry from most peoples beliefs. Do some research on these guys.

Principles for allocation of scarce medical interventions : The Lancet

(If this doesn't give you the full text, join (it's free) to see it).

I feel really bad, I called you a pea brain, and as as it turns out I WAS WRONG...that is WAY too big of a brain to give you credit for...

Principles for allocation of scarce medical interventions : The Lancet

http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/PIIS0140673609601379.pdf

The article you offer as proof of Obama's death panel bullshit appears in The Lancet; a very prestigious medical journal that's been in publication since 1823. It is a trade magazine (Doctors read this magazine). The article appears under the heading of the Department of Ethics. It is authored by Govind Persad BS, Alan Wertheimer PhD, Ezekiel J Emanuel MD.

It is NOT about rationing health care!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is a study done by the authors that examines methods currently being used to ALLOCATE TRANSPLANT ORGANS which are scarce (that means there are not enough organs to perform transplants on everyone that needs one)...and vaccines that can be scarce if a pandemic occurs...

Summary
Allocation of very scarce medical interventions such as organs and vaccines is a persistent ethical challenge. We evaluate eight simple allocation principles that can be classified into four categories: treating people equally, favouring the worst-off, maximising total benefits, and promoting and rewarding social usefulness. No single principle is sufficient to incorporate all morally relevant considerations and therefore individual principles must be combined into multiprinciple allocation systems. We evaluate three systems: the United Network for Organ Sharing points systems, quality-adjusted life-years, and disability-adjusted life-years. We recommend an alternative system—the complete lives system—which prioritises younger people who have not yet lived a complete life, and also incorporates prognosis, save the most lives, lottery, and instrumental value principles.

--------------------------------------

So now we've established that you are a BB brain....care to prove we need to use a microscope to see your brain?

Dr. Emanuel’s Complete Lives methodology of applying his interpretation of both allocative and distributive justice to healthcare is put forth in the context of having scarce medical resources available. That’s an important consideration when reviewing his Complete Lives proposal; it is not meant to address the allocation and distribution of readily available and plentiful medical resources, only scarce ones. It is a two-tiered system divided between basic (guaranteed) and discretionary (not guaranteed) medical services. Some citizens will receive only basic services while others will receive both basic and some discretionary health services.

So we have to take Dr. Emanuel’s ideas in the context in which they were set, which makes them somewhat less monstrous and horrific than some of the commentary on the subject would have you believe.

That being said, one of the oft-stated goals of President Obama’s healthcare “reform” was to reduce costs and the amount of America’s GDP being spent on healthcare. That certainly implies that money – tax dollars or deficit dollars – will essentially be a medical resource. This could very easily create the sort scarcity that would call Dr. Emanuel’s bio-ethical philosophies into play. Dr Emanuel is, after all, a special advisor to the Director of the White House Office of Management and Budget for health policy. He would definitely be consulted on streamlining expenditures.

Complete Lives System | Reflections From a Murky Pond

You really need to take a few steps back, look at the pieces of the puzzle and see the bigger picture.

btw, are you able to post anything without naming calling and insults?

 

[Bfgrn]

This is more detailed in what Emanuel's views are but to answer your question, there's no doubt in my mind that government-run health care will result in single-payer and rationing. And the beliefs of the people whispering in Obama's ear are a far cry from most peoples beliefs. Do some research on these guys.

Principles for allocation of scarce medical interventions : The Lancet

(If this doesn't give you the full text, join (it's free) to see it).

I feel really bad, I called you a pea brain, and as as it turns out I WAS WRONG...that is WAY too big of a brain to give you credit for...

Principles for allocation of scarce medical interventions : The Lancet

http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/PIIS0140673609601379.pdf

The article you offer as proof of Obama's death panel bullshit appears in The Lancet; a very prestigious medical journal that's been in publication since 1823. It is a trade magazine (Doctors read this magazine). The article appears under the heading of the Department of Ethics. It is authored by Govind Persad BS, Alan Wertheimer PhD, Ezekiel J Emanuel MD.

It is NOT about rationing health care!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is a study done by the authors that examines methods currently being used to ALLOCATE TRANSPLANT ORGANS which are scarce (that means there are not enough organs to perform transplants on everyone that needs one)...and vaccines that can be scarce if a pandemic occurs...

Summary
Allocation of very scarce medical interventions such as organs and vaccines is a persistent ethical challenge. We evaluate eight simple allocation principles that can be classified into four categories: treating people equally, favouring the worst-off, maximising total benefits, and promoting and rewarding social usefulness. No single principle is sufficient to incorporate all morally relevant considerations and therefore individual principles must be combined into multiprinciple allocation systems. We evaluate three systems: the United Network for Organ Sharing points systems, quality-adjusted life-years, and disability-adjusted life-years. We recommend an alternative system—the complete lives system—which prioritises younger people who have not yet lived a complete life, and also incorporates prognosis, save the most lives, lottery, and instrumental value principles.

--------------------------------------

So now we've established that you are a BB brain....care to prove we need to use a microscope to see your brain?

Dr. Emanuel’s Complete Lives methodology of applying his interpretation of both allocative and distributive justice to healthcare is put forth in the context of having scarce medical resources available. That’s an important consideration when reviewing his Complete Lives proposal; it is not meant to address the allocation and distribution of readily available and plentiful medical resources, only scarce ones. It is a two-tiered system divided between basic (guaranteed) and discretionary (not guaranteed) medical services. Some citizens will receive only basic services while others will receive both basic and some discretionary health services.

So we have to take Dr. Emanuel’s ideas in the context in which they were set, which makes them somewhat less monstrous and horrific than some of the commentary on the subject would have you believe.

That being said, one of the oft-stated goals of President Obama’s healthcare “reform” was to reduce costs and the amount of America’s GDP being spent on healthcare. That certainly implies that money – tax dollars or deficit dollars – will essentially be a medical resource. This could very easily create the sort scarcity that would call Dr. Emanuel’s bio-ethical philosophies into play. Dr Emanuel is, after all, a special advisor to the Director of the White House Office of Management and Budget for health policy. He would definitely be consulted on streamlining expenditures.

Complete Lives System | Reflections From a Murky Pond

You really need to take a few steps back, look at the pieces of the puzzle and see the bigger picture.

btw, are you able to post anything without naming calling and insults?

I NEED to take a step back? REALLY??? After I just PROVED you're spouting LIES? If you READ in full the ANY of the actual article(s) written by Dr. Emanuel you will see that the man is AGAINST euthanasia.

HERE is the "bigger picture"...there are VERY powerful groups of lobbyists, corporations and special interests that want to destroy health care reform...it is a simple matter of dollars...BILLIONS of DOLLARS. They will lie, cheat and discredit anyone including the good Dr Emanuel if they see them as an obstacle.

Totally unethical scum bags like Betsy McCaughey that put out this crap KNOW Dr. Emanuel is NOT evil or even scary...This is nothing but a concerted effort to SCARE you pea brained corporate koolaid guzzlers into hiding under your beds and only coming out to shout at the clouds and show up in a frenzy at town hall meetings to YELL OVER those working to give YOU a just and fair health care system...

You are an obtuse mouth piece for corporate interests that don't CARE if you live or if you die...You really don't DESERVE citizenship... give it to someone with a brain...

Now...........where did I put my microscope?

Ezekiel Emanuel, Obama's 'Deadly Doctor,' Strikes Back - TIME

"Harry Truman once said, 'There are 14 or 15 million Americans who have the resources to have representatives in Washington to protect their interests, and that the interests of the great mass of the other people - the 150 or 160 million - is the responsibility of the president of the United States, and I propose to fulfill it.'"
President John F. Kennedy

 

[Zoom-boing]

btw, are you able to post anything without naming calling and insults?

you pea brained corporate koolaid guzzlers

You are an obtuse mouth piece for corporate interests...You really don't DESERVE citizenship... give it to someone with a brain...

A simple 'No' would have sufficed . . . but I didn't expect you had the balls to reply to me without insults.

From your link "The fundamental danger is that the American people are being asked to delegate all these life-influencing decisions". This is where you fail to see the bigger picture.

In an April 28 New York Times interview, the president spoke of having government guide a "very difficult democratic conversation" about "those toward the end of their lives [who] are accounting for potentially 80 percent of the total health care bill out here." Those statements sounded a little creepy to us. Deciding who gets denied care at the end of life should not be dependent on government cost controls.

Presidential health care adviser Ezekiel Emanuel, brother of White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel and chairman of the Department of Bioethics at the Clinical Center at the National Institutes of Health, has argued that independent government boards should decide policy on end-of-life care. He also has defended rationing care more strictly for older people because "allocation [of medical care] by age is not invidious discrimination."

If that fear sounds far-fetched, consider that similar things already are happening in several states. As Jeff Emanuel (no relation to the Obama officials) explains on the facing page, a panel of the U.S. 11th Circuit Court of Appeals this spring ruled that Georgia can override a doctor's decision about how much care is warranted for a handicapped child because the state is "the final arbiter" of medical decisions.

The situation is even worse in Oregon, which has legalized "assisted suicide." As radio host and author Mark Levin has publicized in his best-seller "Liberty and Tyranny," the Oregon health plan last year refused to pay for a recognized drug to prolong the life of lung cancer patient Barbara Wagner even after her oncologist prescribed it. Yet the same bureaucrats told Ms. Wagner that the plan would indeed cover doctor-assisted suicide if she chose that option.

Saving her life was deemed too expensive, but paying her to die was just fine.

EDITORIAL: A euthanasia mandate - Washington Times

Here is the "bigger picture"...there are VERY powerful groups of lobbyists, corporations, and our government that want to push through health care reform - oops, I mean health insurance reform - as a piece of the puzzle that is an even bigger government. More government control over your life, your decisions, your personal choices. It is a simple matter of dollars...BILLIONS of DOLLARS. They will lie, cheat and discredit anyone if they see them as an obstacle. I'm not against health care or health insurance reform. It's needed. I am against the government running health care.

Thanks for playing and enjoy your government-run health care. Let me know how it works out for you down the road.