As a Jew this is hard for me to explain

[ding]

Good question. It's my contention that the first eleven chapters of the Torah were not written by Moses. They were recorded by Moses. In other words, these accounts had been passed down orally for thousands of years.

So when I write written, I am referencing something that wasn't passed down orally for thousands of years. That it was actually a later revelation.

Comments?

They were dictated by God to Moshe because until the Children of Israel accepted the Torah at Mount Sinai, no other nation was worthy of receiving the Blueprint of Creation.
Why would God give His Torah (Enlightenment) to people who wouldn’t obey Him?

No. They weren't. They were accounts that were passed down from generation to generation. And it wasn't the Torah. It was the first eleven chapters of the Torah.

It wasn’t the Torah until Matan Torah.

Doesn't matter. Not material to my point.

Very material.
I think you don’t understand the Torah is existence, not the story of existence.

You are right about my not understanding the Torah is existence. I believe God is the matrix of existence. But I never said it was the story of existence. I said the first two Chapters answers the question where did we come from.

 

[Indeependent]

How do you know?
Creation is described in Tehillim and Prophets also.
No prophet prophesized what Moshe did not hear from God; it’s our job to find it.

Written and recorded later, right?

What’s the difference between written and recorded?

Good question. It's my contention that the first eleven chapters of the Torah were not written by Moses. They were recorded by Moses. In other words, these accounts had been passed down orally for thousands of years.

So when I write written, I am referencing something that wasn't passed down orally for thousands of years. That it was actually a later revelation.

Comments?

They were dictated by God to Moshe because until the Children of Israel accepted the Torah at Mount Sinai, no other nation was worthy of receiving the Blueprint of Creation.
Why would God give His Torah (Enlightenment) to people who wouldn’t obey Him?

No. They weren't. They were accounts that were passed down from generation to generation. And it wasn't the Torah. It was the first eleven chapters of the Torah.

Are you sure you spent time on Torah.org?
You also realize that the Torah’s orations of their travels through the desert is not in chronological order all the time.

 

[ding]

Feel free to discuss the steps I am skipping and how they aren't discussing the creation of the material world.

Because from where I am sitting there is nothing I am skipping that isn't about the creation of the material world.

What am I missing?

God preparing the world, one step at a time, for man to inhabit it.
Just as man must prepare younger people step by step.

Yes, Creation was created ins steps so to speak through the laws of nature.

Yes, just like we need to prepare the next generation. Which is why I said the purpose of the accounts is to pass down important information and knowledge. Which also explains why the accounts are written the way they are. In story fashion so as to make them easier to remember and pass down.

B’raishis tells the moral tale of the family that recognized and obeyed God until the family expanded into a nation.
Many laws in the Torah require mass numbers of people to observe.
You realize this conversation we are having is in the English edition of the Artscroll B’reishis.
I thought you spent time on Torah.org.

We are discussing Chapter 1 of the Torah. Not the entire Torah. My contention is that the first eleven chapters were passed down orally for thousands of years before being recorded by Moses. Discussing anything after the first eleven chapters is irrelevant to this point.

Your contention is that Genesis is not Devine truth.

Not in the way you believe it is. I don't believe Moses wrote the first eleven chapters. I believe Moses recorded the first eleven chapters. Does that mean they aren't divine truth? I don't believe it means that. The fact that they knew the universe was created and that man is a product of that creation tends to make me believe it is divine truth told in an allegorical fashion. If anything it suggests it is more amazing. These accounts were passed down for thousands of years. There is nothing like it in the history of mankind.

 

[Indeependent]

They were dictated by God to Moshe because until the Children of Israel accepted the Torah at Mount Sinai, no other nation was worthy of receiving the Blueprint of Creation.
Why would God give His Torah (Enlightenment) to people who wouldn’t obey Him?

No. They weren't. They were accounts that were passed down from generation to generation. And it wasn't the Torah. It was the first eleven chapters of the Torah.

It wasn’t the Torah until Matan Torah.

Doesn't matter. Not material to my point.

Very material.
I think you don’t understand the Torah is existence, not the story of existence.

You are right about my not understanding the Torah is existence. I believe God is the matrix of existence. But I never said it was the story of existence. I said the first two Chapters answers the question where did we come from.

God’s existence can not be explained; only His chosen manifestation of the moment.

 

[watchingfromafar]

It’s obvious you haven’t studied anything at all.

Most of what is in the Torah is in the Old Testament
& I have read the Old Testament
correct me if I am wrong
-

 

[Indeependent]

Verse 1:2...

 

[Indeependent]

It’s obvious you haven’t studied anything at all.

Most of what is in the Torah is in the Old Testament
& I have read the Old Testament
correct me if I am wrong
-

You’re wrong.
You haven’t posted anything worthwhile yet.

 

[ding]

Written and recorded later, right?

What’s the difference between written and recorded?

Good question. It's my contention that the first eleven chapters of the Torah were not written by Moses. They were recorded by Moses. In other words, these accounts had been passed down orally for thousands of years.

So when I write written, I am referencing something that wasn't passed down orally for thousands of years. That it was actually a later revelation.

Comments?

They were dictated by God to Moshe because until the Children of Israel accepted the Torah at Mount Sinai, no other nation was worthy of receiving the Blueprint of Creation.
Why would God give His Torah (Enlightenment) to people who wouldn’t obey Him?

No. They weren't. They were accounts that were passed down from generation to generation. And it wasn't the Torah. It was the first eleven chapters of the Torah.

Are you sure you spent time on Torah.org?
You also realize that the Torah’s orations of their travels through the desert is not in chronological order all the time.

If that was the website I learned about satan from then I did, but that's the only thing I read. I think there was another site I looked at to try to understand the Jewish belief of final judgment but I didn't spend much time on them.

No. I don't believe I did know that the Torah’s orations of their travels through the desert is not in chronological order all the time.

 

[Indeependent]

What’s the difference between written and recorded?

Good question. It's my contention that the first eleven chapters of the Torah were not written by Moses. They were recorded by Moses. In other words, these accounts had been passed down orally for thousands of years.

So when I write written, I am referencing something that wasn't passed down orally for thousands of years. That it was actually a later revelation.

Comments?

They were dictated by God to Moshe because until the Children of Israel accepted the Torah at Mount Sinai, no other nation was worthy of receiving the Blueprint of Creation.
Why would God give His Torah (Enlightenment) to people who wouldn’t obey Him?

No. They weren't. They were accounts that were passed down from generation to generation. And it wasn't the Torah. It was the first eleven chapters of the Torah.

Are you sure you spent time on Torah.org?
You also realize that the Torah’s orations of their travels through the desert is not in chronological order all the time.

If that was the website I learned about satan from then I did, but that's the only thing I read. I think there was another site I looked at to try to understand the Jewish belief of final judgment but I didn't spend much time on them.

No. I don't believe I did know that the Torah’s orations of their travels through the desert is not in chronological order all the time.

It’s in moral order.

 

[ding]

Verse 1:2...

And?

 

[ding]

Good question. It's my contention that the first eleven chapters of the Torah were not written by Moses. They were recorded by Moses. In other words, these accounts had been passed down orally for thousands of years.

So when I write written, I am referencing something that wasn't passed down orally for thousands of years. That it was actually a later revelation.

Comments?

They were dictated by God to Moshe because until the Children of Israel accepted the Torah at Mount Sinai, no other nation was worthy of receiving the Blueprint of Creation.
Why would God give His Torah (Enlightenment) to people who wouldn’t obey Him?

No. They weren't. They were accounts that were passed down from generation to generation. And it wasn't the Torah. It was the first eleven chapters of the Torah.

Are you sure you spent time on Torah.org?
You also realize that the Torah’s orations of their travels through the desert is not in chronological order all the time.

If that was the website I learned about satan from then I did, but that's the only thing I read. I think there was another site I looked at to try to understand the Jewish belief of final judgment but I didn't spend much time on them.

No. I don't believe I did know that the Torah’s orations of their travels through the desert is not in chronological order all the time.

It’s in moral order.

Not sure what you are saying here.

 

[Indeependent]

Verse 1:2...

And?

Commence...
What does it say and what is God’s message?

 

[watchingfromafar]

God’s existence can not be explained; only His chosen manifestation of the moment.

Was this one of those moments~~~

Ezekiel
1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, set thy face toward Jerusalem, and drop thy word toward the holy places, and prophesy against the land of Israel,
3 And say to the land of Israel, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I am against thee, and will draw forth my sword out of his sheath, and will cut off from thee the righteous and the wicked.
4 Seeing then that I will cut off from thee the righteous and the wicked, therefore shall my sword go forth out of his sheath against all flesh from the south to the north:
7 And it shall be, when they say unto thee, Wherefore sighest thou? that thou shalt answer, For the tidings; because it cometh: and every heart shall melt, and all hands shall be feeble, and every spirit shall faint, and all knees shall be weak as water: behold, it cometh, and shall be brought to pass, saith the Lord GOD.
9 Son of man, prophesy, and say, Thus saith the LORD; Say, A sword, a sword is sharpened, and also furbished:
12 Cry and howl, son of man: for it shall be upon my people, it shall be upon all the princes of Israel: terrors by reason of the sword shall be upon my people: smite therefore upon thy thigh.
13 Because it is a trial, and what if the sword contemn even the rod? it shall be no more, saith the Lord GOD.
17 I will also smite mine hands together, and I will cause my fury to rest: I the LORD have said it.
20 Appoint a way, that the sword may come to Rabbath of the Ammonites, and to Judah in Jerusalem the defenced.
24 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have made your iniquity to be remembered, in that your transgressions are discovered, so that in all your doings your sins do appear; because, I say, that ye are come to remembrance, ye shall be taken with the hand.
25 And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end,
27 I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him.
29 Whiles they see vanity unto thee, whiles they divine a lie unto thee, to bring thee upon the necks of them that are slain, of the wicked, whose day is come, when their iniquity shall have an end.
30 Shall I cause it to return into his sheath? I will judge thee in the place where thou wast created, in the land of thy nativity.
31 And I will pour out mine indignation upon thee, I will blow against thee in the fire of my wrath, and deliver thee into the hand of brutish men, and skilful to destroy.
32 Thou shalt be for fuel to the fire; thy blood shall be in the midst of the land; thou shalt be no more remembered: for I the LORD have spoken it.

According to a 2002 study by the Jewish Agency, "the number of Jews in the world is declining at an average of 50,000 per year."
Jewish population by country - Wikipedia
the end is near -

 

[Indeependent]

God’s existence can not be explained; only His chosen manifestation of the moment.

Was this one of those moments~~~

Ezekiel
1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, set thy face toward Jerusalem, and drop thy word toward the holy places, and prophesy against the land of Israel,
3 And say to the land of Israel, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I am against thee, and will draw forth my sword out of his sheath, and will cut off from thee the righteous and the wicked.
4 Seeing then that I will cut off from thee the righteous and the wicked, therefore shall my sword go forth out of his sheath against all flesh from the south to the north:
7 And it shall be, when they say unto thee, Wherefore sighest thou? that thou shalt answer, For the tidings; because it cometh: and every heart shall melt, and all hands shall be feeble, and every spirit shall faint, and all knees shall be weak as water: behold, it cometh, and shall be brought to pass, saith the Lord GOD.
9 Son of man, prophesy, and say, Thus saith the LORD; Say, A sword, a sword is sharpened, and also furbished:
12 Cry and howl, son of man: for it shall be upon my people, it shall be upon all the princes of Israel: terrors by reason of the sword shall be upon my people: smite therefore upon thy thigh.
13 Because it is a trial, and what if the sword contemn even the rod? it shall be no more, saith the Lord GOD.
17 I will also smite mine hands together, and I will cause my fury to rest: I the LORD have said it.
20 Appoint a way, that the sword may come to Rabbath of the Ammonites, and to Judah in Jerusalem the defenced.
24 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have made your iniquity to be remembered, in that your transgressions are discovered, so that in all your doings your sins do appear; because, I say, that ye are come to remembrance, ye shall be taken with the hand.
25 And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end,
27 I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him.
29 Whiles they see vanity unto thee, whiles they divine a lie unto thee, to bring thee upon the necks of them that are slain, of the wicked, whose day is come, when their iniquity shall have an end.
30 Shall I cause it to return into his sheath? I will judge thee in the place where thou wast created, in the land of thy nativity.
31 And I will pour out mine indignation upon thee, I will blow against thee in the fire of my wrath, and deliver thee into the hand of brutish men, and skilful to destroy.
32 Thou shalt be for fuel to the fire; thy blood shall be in the midst of the land; thou shalt be no more remembered: for I the LORD have spoken it.

According to a 2002 study by the Jewish Agency, "the number of Jews in the world is declining at an average of 50,000 per year."
Jewish population by country - Wikipedia
the end is near -

What chapter and what about the next chapter?
Do you realize that Ezekiel, like all the other prophets, tells of the eventual return of the Jews to God.
But you just go on cherry picking verses.

 

[ding]

No. They weren't. They were accounts that were passed down from generation to generation. And it wasn't the Torah. It was the first eleven chapters of the Torah.

It wasn’t the Torah until Matan Torah.

Doesn't matter. Not material to my point.

Very material.
I think you don’t understand the Torah is existence, not the story of existence.

You are right about my not understanding the Torah is existence. I believe God is the matrix of existence. But I never said it was the story of existence. I said the first two Chapters answers the question where did we come from.

God’s existence can not be explained; only His chosen manifestation of the moment.

I agree. God is no thing. God is more like a verb. Me being a thing I can't possibly understand a no thing. The closest I can come to describing God is consciousness without form.

 

[ding]

I gotta run. Not sure if I will get a chance to carry this on as I am leaving for Alaska in a couple of days.

 

[Indeependent]

I gotta run. Not sure if I will get a chance to carry this on as I am leaving for Alaska in a couple of days.

Have a safe voyage.

 

[Mindful]

Pals go into children's bedrooms and shoot a sleeping baby in the head. Point blank.

I have unrefutable evidence of the IDF (Israel Defense Force); shooting children in the head.

You have zero evidence to support your claim. Since you are a stranger and therefor I cannot just believe what you say is true; I must ask you to produce your evidence or else I will have no other choice but to CALL YOU A LIAR; a trump want-a-be with warts.

Well, do you have the proof, or must I say it like it is?
Mindful, I know you know what a wart looks like but for the rest here; this is a wart--
View attachment 269510

I couldn't care less what you believe.

You're just a big pile of nothing.

 

[watchingfromafar]

like all the other prophets, tells of the eventual return of the Jews to God.

American Jews have found their Promised Land in the USA, Israeli's have found their savior in the devil-
bow before me you minions
slay the baby and bring it before me

 

[watchingfromafar]

I couldn't care less what you believe.

Please forgive me for that crude and rude post
again, please forgive me -